IF last seasons ECF unit, started this season....

[Tr1boy]

So no Kyrie and no Gordon

Where would that ECF unit be in the standings today?

Better than the team today?  About the same or worse?

Has the competition/scouting on Celtics gotten that much better

It is an interesting argument....

[Rosco917]

Last year the Eastern Conference was so weak that the eventual winner Cleveland could have been beaten by any of 3 Western conference teams. This year the conference is much stronger, the Bucks, 76ers, Raptors etc. In fact, it could be said that last years conference was the worst I've ever seen.

IMO we would be slightly worse.

[Green-18]

So no Kyrie and no Gordon

Where would that ECF unit be in the standings today?

Better than the team today?  About the same or worse?

Has the competition/scouting on Celtics gotten that much better

It is an interesting argument....

I have tried to raise this point in other threads.  Last years squad had too many offensive flaws to assume they would be near the top of the EC standings.  My guess is that they would be relatively close to where they are now, but with fewer wins against elite teams and fewer losses against poor teams.  The popular narrative would be that they play hard every night in a much improved Eastern Conference.

We can't ignore the rule changes either.  It's much more difficult to hang your hat on defense this season.  Scoring droughts would have continued to be an issue.

[KGBirdBias]

I believe it would be slightly better because everyone would know their roles. This team couldn't take that Cavs team to 7 games...no way, no how.

Imagine in your job, you are called upon to fill a role that you didn't think you'd have to fill so soon. You end up doing the job beyond expectations and then they hire someone to fill the role you had assumed.

Would you be able to go back to your normal role?
Would you have some animosity?
Would you be upset when you see the job not being done as well and people are still blaming you?

Stevens has to figure out or hire an assistant that can massage egos and make everyone feel like they are ok in their role. Right now the only one pointing the finger is the person who they hired to take your job.🤷🏾‍♂️

I've always said I wish he had some veteran former NBA players and coaches on his staff. How did Pop get Manu to go from starting to the bench without a peep? How did KC get McHale to do it? This is a young team not a veteran team and they want to grow. Minutes need to be spread out on effort not anything else at this point. Maybe have an orchestrated blow up with Kyrie to send a message.

[Chris22]

Last year the Eastern Conference was so weak that the eventual winner Cleveland could have been beaten by any of 3 Western conference teams. This year the conference is much stronger, the Bucks, 76ers, Raptors etc. In fact, it could be said that last years conference was the worst I've ever seen.

IMO we would be slightly worse.

Everyone in the Eastern Conference got better except for us. We got worse. We have two aging stars beyond their prime and Kyrie. We need to get bigger and stronger.

[PhoSita]

It's really not an interesting argument.


The team without Kyrie or Hayward would be worse.

There's no way the offense would be better than bottom third of the league.  The defense might be similar.

My guess is they'd be hanging right around .500 in that case. 

You'd still have issues with Tatum and Brown struggling to make the leap while Rozier and Morris gun for their next contracts.

Horford would still be a season older.


I don't think it would be pretty.  But hey, the expectations would be lower, so I guess we'd all be happy, right?

[Big333223]

7th or 8th seed, floundering around .500.

I don't thinkg what the team did post Kyrie was sustainable for an entire regular season. Losing your best player can either deflate a team or focus it. Kyrie going down made all these other guys focus in, knowing this was their chance to prove what they had. Over the course of a long season, that squad would not have been nearly as good.

[PhoSita]

We have two aging stars beyond their prime and Kyrie.

Who's the second aging star?

You know Hayward is only 28, right?  His prime will probably last through his age 30-31 season given that he entered the league at age 20.

[Tr1boy]

It's really not an interesting argument.


The team without Kyrie or Hayward would be worse.

There's no way the offense would be better than bottom third of the league.  The defense might be similar.

My guess is they'd be hanging right around .500 in that case. 

You'd still have issues with Tatum and Brown struggling to make the leap while Rozier and Morris gun for their next contracts.

Horford would still be a season older.


I don't think it would be pretty.  But hey, the expectations would be lower, so I guess we'd all be happy, right?

You dont know this unless they got more shots/experience to reach their ceiling

[action781]

I think they'd be better.  Start with:

Rozier / Jaylen / Tatum / Morris / Horford which can hold its own

then off the bench:

Kyrie / Smart / Hayward / Theis / Baynes absolutely open up the game.

Each lineup gets ~24 min per game, with perhaps a little more for the bench.  Could never happen because of egos, but its a fun thing to think about and if they could all buy in (which probably never would), I bet it'd work.  Or maybe flip the starters and bench (still wouldn't be do-able in reality).

[slamtheking]

It's really not an interesting argument.

The team without Kyrie or Hayward would be worse.

There's no way the offense would be better than bottom third of the league.  The defense might be similar.

My guess is they'd be hanging right around .500 in that case. 

You'd still have issues with Tatum and Brown struggling to make the leap while Rozier and Morris gun for their next contracts.

Horford would still be a season older.

I don't think it would be pretty.  But hey, the expectations would be lower, so I guess we'd all be happy, right?

You dont know this unless they got more shots/experience to reach their ceiling

true, that's an assumption --  as is thinking they'd continue the progress they made during the prior season especially in consideration of the fact we haven't seen any improvement this year over last.    The point about Rozier and Morris looking to get theirs going into a contract year isn't much of a stretch considering we're seeing Rozier play that way every game.

personally, I think without Kyrie and Hayward to absorb some of the offensive burden, we'd see more nights of Tatum and/or Brown going off but we'd also see some real offensive droughts.  The team's offensive philosophy is still "live by the 3, die by the 3" and we'd have 2 less shooters so we'd have even more cold spells.  In the end, I suspect that roster would have a similar record to the current squad at best.  more likely we'd have won less games. 

[CF033]

It's really not an interesting argument.


The team without Kyrie or Hayward would be worse.

There's no way the offense would be better than bottom third of the league.  The defense might be similar.

My guess is they'd be hanging right around .500 in that case. 

You'd still have issues with Tatum and Brown struggling to make the leap while Rozier and Morris gun for their next contracts.

Horford would still be a season older.


I don't think it would be pretty.  But hey, the expectations would be lower, so I guess we'd all be happy, right?

We'd easily be better without this year's version of Hayward so far. To date he's just muddying the waters in the wing positions and not producing that much. Really hoping there's still a chance he comes around.

[KGBirdBias]

We didn't add any toughness. Hayward is still playing tentative and Kyrie isn't known for his toughness.

This is what's missing. We have turned into a finesse team.

[Jvalin]

It's really not an interesting argument.


The team without Kyrie or Hayward would be worse.

There's no way the offense would be better than bottom third of the league.  The defense might be similar.

My guess is they'd be hanging right around .500 in that case. 

You'd still have issues with Tatum and Brown struggling to make the leap while Rozier and Morris gun for their next contracts.

Horford would still be a season older.


I don't think it would be pretty.  But hey, the expectations would be lower, so I guess we'd all be happy, right?

Kyrie has missed 5 games this season. For what it's worth, here are Tatum's and Brown's numbers from these 5 games:

1/14/2019 @Brooklyn
Tatum: 34 points (on 12-19 shooting), 5 rebs, 3 assists
Brown: 22 points (on 9-18 shooting), 6 rebs, 0 assists

1/4/2019 vs. Dallas
Tatum: 18 points (7-21), 6 rebs, 0 assists
Brown: 21 points (9-15), 2 rebs, 2 assists

1/2/2019 vs. Minny
Tatum: 8 points (3-11), 3 rebs, 4 assists
Brown: 10 points (4-7), 5 rebs, 2 assists

12/10/2018 vs. New Orleans
Tatum: 21 points (10-16), 6 rebs, 1 assist
Brown: 19 points (6-16), 7 rebs, 3 assists

11/9/2018 @Utah
Tatum: 21 points (7-14), 3 rebs, 4 assists
Brown: 9 points (4-17), 4 rebs, 1 assist

overall
Tatum: 20.4 points (48.15%), 4.6 rebs, 2.4 assists
Brown: 16.2 points (43.84%), 4.8 rebs, 1.6 assists

Btw, the C's are 3-2 in these 5 games (lost @Brooklyn and @Utah).

[Roy H.]

Do we get last year’s Horford or this year’s?