Author Topic: Where Irving is Right  (Read 4973 times)

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Where Irving is Right
« on: January 14, 2019, 10:25:02 AM »

Offline rollie mass

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Did Hayward show his inexperience playing with this group. Shouldn't he have let the play develop.
 Kyrie knows how critical home court is in playoffs.He knows how hard it is to win,Horford knows how hard it is to win
Your best clutch shooter, who got hot in 2nd half and is a deadly foul shooter doesn't get the ball.
That baseline is like an extra defender leaving one option. Kyrie in open court is buit for that shot.
Again we missed Baynes big body at rim ,Gordon got a full head of steam twice and Williams didn't have the answer.
Gordon looked aggressive at start but went back to drive and kick.He is still uncomfortable with contact
Kyrie is the superstar of this team. A proven NBA finalist winner with a couple losses to back up his claims of difficulty..
Hindsight has 2020 vision--Hayward made the wrong play.

 

Re: Where Irving is Right
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2019, 10:35:33 AM »

Offline Silky

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Did Hayward show his inexperience playing with this group. Shouldn't he have let the play develop.
 Kyrie knows how critical home court is in playoffs.He knows how hard it is to win,Horford knows how hard it is to win
Your best clutch shooter, who got hot in 2nd half and is a deadly foul shooter doesn't get the ball.
That baseline is like an extra defender leaving one option. Kyrie in open court is buit for that shot.
Again we missed Baynes big body at rim ,Gordon got a full head of steam twice and Williams didn't have the answer.
Gordon looked aggressive at start but went back to drive and kick.He is still uncomfortable with contact
Kyrie is the superstar of this team. A proven NBA finalist winner with a couple losses to back up his claims of difficulty..
Hindsight has 2020 vision--Hayward made the wrong play.

Hayward makes alot of wrong plays.

I dont think he is gonna work with Horford and Kyrie.

Horf and Kyrie are both play makers, so is Gordon.

Tatum and Brown both capitalize on having the ball. (although Tatum is best, imo, at receiving the ball off ball movement.)

Smart is a great roll player, but team needs fewer ball handlers and more roll players.

Re: Where Irving is Right
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2019, 10:35:44 AM »

Offline Androslav

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He did make a mistake.
Watch film, talk about it, move on to next play.
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Re: Where Irving is Right
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2019, 10:53:38 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Did Hayward show his inexperience playing with this group. Shouldn't he have let the play develop.
 Kyrie knows how critical home court is in playoffs.He knows how hard it is to win,Horford knows how hard it is to win
Your best clutch shooter, who got hot in 2nd half and is a deadly foul shooter doesn't get the ball.
That baseline is like an extra defender leaving one option. Kyrie in open court is buit for that shot.
Again we missed Baynes big body at rim ,Gordon got a full head of steam twice and Williams didn't have the answer.
Gordon looked aggressive at start but went back to drive and kick.He is still uncomfortable with contact
Kyrie is the superstar of this team. A proven NBA finalist winner with a couple losses to back up his claims of difficulty..
Hindsight has 2020 vision--Hayward made the wrong play.

you must be jokin

Irving isn't even moving when the ref gives the ball to Hayward for the throw in

Irving is way back....when he is going to try to beat his man to try to get open?


Re: Where Irving is Right
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2019, 11:04:06 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I think the play was fine. Tatum got a decent shot off.

The other option was apparently a pass to Horford, who would then get the ball to a cutting Kyrie. With less than 3 seconds left that seems risky.

Also, Kyrie is dead wrong saying that his Cavs teams always played hard. It’s laughable.


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Re: Where Irving is Right
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2019, 12:48:39 PM »

Online Atzar

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This link contains video of the play in question. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/why-was-kyrie-irving-so-angry-celtics-final-play

Hayward chooses to pass to Tatum rather than inbounding to Horford because Tatum gets a step on Iwundu.  I don't have an issue with this decision.  The problem is that Tatum doesn't use his advantage.  He slows and cuts toward the corner to make the catch 18 feet from the basket, allowing Iwundu to catch up, and his only real choice is the play for the shot that he ended up getting - a contested fadeaway 18 footer.  I don't know if this is what Stevens wanted, or if this is just Tatum being Tatum. 

I would have wanted Tatum to cut to the baseline instead of the corner.  It's a more difficult angle for Hayward, but it gives Tatum more options.  He can play for a much shorter jumpshot if he chooses.  Or, he can drive to the rim.  Tatum's length would make it difficult for Iwundu to contest from behind, but he'd probably have to finish around Isaac's help defense.  Personally I'd take my chances with that. 

Re: Where Irving is Right
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2019, 12:58:22 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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This link contains video of the play in question. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/why-was-kyrie-irving-so-angry-celtics-final-play

Hayward chooses to pass to Tatum rather than inbounding to Horford because Tatum gets a step on Iwundu.  I don't have an issue with this decision.  The problem is that Tatum doesn't use his advantage.  He slows and cuts toward the corner to make the catch 18 feet from the basket, allowing Iwundu to catch up, and his only real choice is the play for the shot that he ended up getting - a contested fadeaway 18 footer.  I don't know if this is what Stevens wanted, or if this is just Tatum being Tatum. 

I would have wanted Tatum to cut to the baseline instead of the corner.  It's a more difficult angle for Hayward, but it gives Tatum more options.  He can play for a much shorter jumpshot if he chooses.  Or, he can drive to the rim.  Tatum's length would make it difficult for Iwundu to contest from behind, but he'd probably have to finish around Isaac's help defense.  Personally I'd take my chances with that.

Ok well if not for this

What would have Irving done better?

He was like 7 ft away from Hayward, with his man stuck to him like glue.   When the ref gives Hayward the ball, Irving is not even trying to get away from his defender

I don't understand in this situation, why Stevens wouldn't revert to the old double/triple pick strategy (both Irving and Tatum running around the screens) .  And two players who set the picks (Horford and Williams for example) rolling to the basket for an alley/catch fake and shoot near the basket opportunity

just *facepalm*

Re: Where Irving is Right
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2019, 01:03:47 PM »

Online Atzar

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This link contains video of the play in question. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/why-was-kyrie-irving-so-angry-celtics-final-play

Hayward chooses to pass to Tatum rather than inbounding to Horford because Tatum gets a step on Iwundu.  I don't have an issue with this decision.  The problem is that Tatum doesn't use his advantage.  He slows and cuts toward the corner to make the catch 18 feet from the basket, allowing Iwundu to catch up, and his only real choice is the play for the shot that he ended up getting - a contested fadeaway 18 footer.  I don't know if this is what Stevens wanted, or if this is just Tatum being Tatum. 

I would have wanted Tatum to cut to the baseline instead of the corner.  It's a more difficult angle for Hayward, but it gives Tatum more options.  He can play for a much shorter jumpshot if he chooses.  Or, he can drive to the rim.  Tatum's length would make it difficult for Iwundu to contest from behind, but he'd probably have to finish around Isaac's help defense.  Personally I'd take my chances with that.

Ok well if not for this

What would have Irving done better?

He was like 7 ft away from Hayward, with his man stuck to him like glue.   When the ref gives Hayward the ball, Irving is not even trying to get away from his defender

I don't understand in this situation, why Stevens wouldn't revert to the old double/triple pick strategy (both Irving and Tatum running around the screens) .  And two players who set the picks (Horford and Williams for example) rolling to the basket for an alley/catch fake and shoot near the basket opportunity

just *facepalm*

The Celtics have run this play before, with both Kyrie and IT.  Kyrie is not supposed to take off until Horford receives the inbounds pass.  The timing with less than three seconds would have been tight but manageable.

I saw a twitter post that very clearly showed the setup/execution on previous versions of this play, but unfortunately I didn't save it and I don't feel like sorting through twitter crap to find it again. 

Re: Where Irving is Right
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2019, 01:06:16 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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Woulda, shoulda, coulda. It should never have come down that in the first place. Not with the potential talent on this team.

When Gordon Hayward was injured to the degree that he was last year, it forced the organization to accelerate the development of the young players.

There is no healthy Gordon Hayward to bridge that development anymore. These young players have simply not responded consistently enough as of yet. This is the reason why this team depends on Morris so much. 

 

Re: Where Irving is Right
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2019, 01:06:27 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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This link contains video of the play in question. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/why-was-kyrie-irving-so-angry-celtics-final-play

Hayward chooses to pass to Tatum rather than inbounding to Horford because Tatum gets a step on Iwundu.  I don't have an issue with this decision.  The problem is that Tatum doesn't use his advantage.  He slows and cuts toward the corner to make the catch 18 feet from the basket, allowing Iwundu to catch up, and his only real choice is the play for the shot that he ended up getting - a contested fadeaway 18 footer.  I don't know if this is what Stevens wanted, or if this is just Tatum being Tatum. 

I would have wanted Tatum to cut to the baseline instead of the corner.  It's a more difficult angle for Hayward, but it gives Tatum more options.  He can play for a much shorter jumpshot if he chooses.  Or, he can drive to the rim.  Tatum's length would make it difficult for Iwundu to contest from behind, but he'd probably have to finish around Isaac's help defense.  Personally I'd take my chances with that.

Ok well if not for this

What would have Irving done better?

He was like 7 ft away from Hayward, with his man stuck to him like glue.   When the ref gives Hayward the ball, Irving is not even trying to get away from his defender

I don't understand in this situation, why Stevens wouldn't revert to the old double/triple pick strategy (both Irving and Tatum running around the screens) .  And two players who set the picks (Horford and Williams for example) rolling to the basket for an alley/catch fake and shoot near the basket opportunity

just *facepalm*

The Celtics have run this play before, with both Kyrie and IT.  Kyrie is not supposed to take off until Horford receives the inbounds pass.  The timing with less than three seconds would have been tight but manageable.

I saw a twitter post that very clearly showed the setup/execution on previous versions of this play, but unfortunately I didn't save it and I don't feel like sorting through twitter crap to find it again.

Yes but I believe Horford was covered tightly as well

You want to excute this but its not going to happen all the time

With 3 sec left how easy is it to make two quick passes and get a clean shot off?

Need at least 5 sec

Re: Where Irving is Right
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2019, 01:06:54 PM »

Offline Big333223

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He did make a mistake.
Watch film, talk about it, move on to next play.

Yeah, this is how it looks to me.

Tatum is a terrific one-on-one player but just dumping it to him with his defender in good position and saying, "Create something," with 3 seconds left isn't smart basketball. And that's what that was, because Tatum was on an island on that side of the floor with no other options.

It looks, to me, like the play as it was called was to inbound to Horford and either hand off to a streaking Kyrie or (as a 2nd option) make a play himself. Instead, I guess Hayward called an audible and I don't think it was a good one.
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Re: Where Irving is Right
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2019, 01:11:05 PM »

Offline Chris22

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We lost because we gave up a ton of points in the paint in the first quarter, because we don't have an interior defender with Baynes out and Williams sitting on the bench.

Re: Where Irving is Right
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2019, 01:13:42 PM »

Offline CF033

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WAY too much is being made of this one play. The real question is: why do we consistently let mediocre and poor teams beat us? Orlando has been destroying us.

Against teams like that the starters should be on the bench at the end of the game enjoying a rest in garbage time, not trying to throw us desperation shots to tie the game.

That one play is really the least of our problems.

Re: Where Irving is Right
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2019, 01:14:28 PM »

Online Atzar

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This link contains video of the play in question. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/why-was-kyrie-irving-so-angry-celtics-final-play

Hayward chooses to pass to Tatum rather than inbounding to Horford because Tatum gets a step on Iwundu.  I don't have an issue with this decision.  The problem is that Tatum doesn't use his advantage.  He slows and cuts toward the corner to make the catch 18 feet from the basket, allowing Iwundu to catch up, and his only real choice is the play for the shot that he ended up getting - a contested fadeaway 18 footer.  I don't know if this is what Stevens wanted, or if this is just Tatum being Tatum. 

I would have wanted Tatum to cut to the baseline instead of the corner.  It's a more difficult angle for Hayward, but it gives Tatum more options.  He can play for a much shorter jumpshot if he chooses.  Or, he can drive to the rim.  Tatum's length would make it difficult for Iwundu to contest from behind, but he'd probably have to finish around Isaac's help defense.  Personally I'd take my chances with that.

Ok well if not for this

What would have Irving done better?

He was like 7 ft away from Hayward, with his man stuck to him like glue.   When the ref gives Hayward the ball, Irving is not even trying to get away from his defender

I don't understand in this situation, why Stevens wouldn't revert to the old double/triple pick strategy (both Irving and Tatum running around the screens) .  And two players who set the picks (Horford and Williams for example) rolling to the basket for an alley/catch fake and shoot near the basket opportunity

just *facepalm*

The Celtics have run this play before, with both Kyrie and IT.  Kyrie is not supposed to take off until Horford receives the inbounds pass.  The timing with less than three seconds would have been tight but manageable.

I saw a twitter post that very clearly showed the setup/execution on previous versions of this play, but unfortunately I didn't save it and I don't feel like sorting through twitter crap to find it again.

Yes but I believe Horford was covered tightly as well

You want to excute this but its not going to happen all the time

With 3 sec left how easy is it to make two quick passes and get a clean shot off?

Need at least 5 sec

No.  Don't need nearly that much time. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/HalfCourtHoops/status/1084278355367731209

Watch the first play in this clip - it's probably exactly what Brad drew up against the Magic.  Also, notice that only two seconds came off of the clock in this instance.  There was enough time to run this play. 

Rather than waiting for this to develop, Hayward saw that Tatum had a step on Iwundu and chose to go to him instead. 


Re: Where Irving is Right
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2019, 01:21:22 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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We lost because we gave up a ton of points in the paint in the first quarter, because we don't have an interior defender with Baynes out and Williams sitting on the bench.

Why isnt Williams playing?

Why is it only when someone is injured he gets min?