"Tal-kin' 'bout my g-g-generation...."
Interesting to see dialogue about it all from the next generations.
Just a couple of small things....
It was Max Yasgur's farm, not Lesters.
CSNY did (four dead in) OHIO, not Buffalo Springfield, though I understand the confusion, because Stills and Young were members of Buffalo Springfield.
And semi-official reports were 500,000 attendees, though there are no completely accurate counts.
In discussions I've had over the last few days with members of my own generation, one acquaintance put it this way...
"It was a four day event where some of the best ideals were lived out, never to happen again."
As Brickowski says, the single most outstanding significance was there were a half million people all in close quarters with scarce food, water, and accommodations, and they not only made it work, they did it without any hostility.
For someone who lived in the 1960s, it's hard to describe the experience, at least for me it is.
500,000 people in close quarters with very low hostitilies is called a typical football weekend at Penn State. It happens frequently.
It just seems that virtually every single thing the hippie movement stood for died in 1969 and now people that were hippies or lived through it are living out the oppositte of their ideals.
If the movement wants to take credit for the good they created then they need to take credit for the bad they created too.
Like the 4 that were shot at Youngstown St. That was after they burned buildings. What did they think would happen?
Hippies went into professors' offices and destroyed their life work (obviously not at Woodstock) and took dumps on their desks.
The song "I ain't no senator's son" doesn't describe anything that happened in real life.
I'm surprised people would attribute civil rights to hippies. I just never saw it that way
Hmm..
interesting that you'll take a history lesson from Red but not from someone from the era.
'I'm not no senator's son' has a definite bearing on real life and is a direct referral of what was happening at the time. Some rich and privileged (senators) individuals' draft age children were getting draft deferrals. Many thought unfairly so.
The Kent State shootings - where did you get that from? The four killed did nothing of the sort. A few were innocent bystanders.
No one said hippies only take credit for good things. That is your own misconception. Certainly some good and some bad reverberated from the era.
Like it or not, the hippie movement played a huge part in the times.
It was all intertwined. Civil rights, anti war protests, women's rights, generation gap, proliferation of drug use.
Revisionists will always exist, I guess.
I looked back and it wasn't Red (and I don't think I said it was) that I responded to.
I was responding to the sentence "The hippie movement worldwide was very significant. Some of it's positive influences were womens' rights, gay rights, black rights."
that was said by gustacius.
That's why I said it strikes me odd that they take "credit" for these movements, although certainly some of them would have had roles in it. It just seems these groups (other than some black rights) didn't get many rights during the 60s and are still waiting for them.
Also there were no sentaor's son that would fit the criteria of that song. Al Gore was a senator's son, but he went and was one of only two members from his Harvard class who did.
Where do i get the Kent St shootings were at a group of protesters who burnt buildings such as the ROTC building? I think it was the History channel and wikipedia. They are definitely known to do some revisionism from time to time
In recent years there have been great musical movements like grunge but I don't really consider them socially significant, and it always just surprises me when former hippies seem to describe Woodstock as some significant social event as though it was some culmination of positive ideals or a religious event.
It just seems like an awesome party, but I never saw parties as significant.
Because of the more understanding response you just gave, I’ll respond to your thoughts a bit more before I finish with this whole thing. I’ll try to keep it brief wherever possible. Hang in there with me…
First, let’s understand. You called me out. Now you say that you were responding to something that someone else said. I find it curious that I was challenged, but not that person. When I looked back at what I wrote, I couldn’t find a thing that would upset anyone by any normal standard.
After correcting a few innocuous errors of fact, I said the following…
“In discussions I've had over the last few days with members of my own generation, one acquaintance put it this way...
"It was a four day event where some of the best ideals were lived out, never to happen again."
As Brickowski says, the single most outstanding significance was there were a half million people all in close quarters with scarce food, water, and accommodations, and they not only made it work, they did it without any hostility.
For someone who lived in the 1960s, it's hard to describe the experience, at least for me it is.”
I don’t know what was so hard to agree with there. Unless you had an ax to grind, in which case this response is all useless anyway.
Instead you said this…
Eja….”500,000 people in close quarters with very low hostitilies is called a typical football weekend at Penn State. It happens frequently.”
You are comparing a 3-4 hour event to a 3-4 day event? Really? And what do you think would happen if you took those football fans beer, toilets and even something as vital as water away for those 4 hours, let alone 3 days. How about in the dead heat of August? We all know what would happen. It was an absurd, even silly comparison.
And when was there ever 500,000 at any football game in America? It was a disingenuous statement, to say the least.
And then this….
“Like the 4 that were shot at Youngstown St. That was after they burned buildings. What did they think would happen?”
Again a giant leap of assumption. The four killed (nine more wounded) in all probability never had anything to do with the ROTC building burning of the night before. In fact, using the very source that you said you got your information from (wikipedia), says that two girls killed were innocent bystanders on their way to class. I guess you only read selectively to find what fits what you want to believe.
The protesters should have protested peacefully, without destruction to property and without taunting. I agree with that. But you make it sound like anyone protesting deserved to get shot if they were a part of the protest that burned down an empty building. I can’t believe that you really believe that.
What should have happened? There should have been an investigation to find out who actually did the burning and other damage, then bring those specific individuals to trial and punishment in a court of law.
Again, from the source (wikipedia) you say you got your information from, it says that the guardsmen fired indiscriminately into a crowd, and not even at the closest group to them. So the idea that they felt ‘threatened’ was called into question because of that.
The commission that was set up to investigate the whole thing concluded that both sides acted wrongly. It is always a dicey thing to challenge a standing armed guard. I don’t suggest what they did was right. But to be killed for it?
Remember, it was much the same situation in the Boston Massacre. They were throwing rocks and taunting them, too. Did they deserve to be killed? It may have been wrong, but c’mon.
And the Boston Tea Party was wonton destruction of property. To you it may be different, to both groups it was civil disobedience with damage to property as part of it.
eja… “also there were no sentaor's son that would fit the criteria of that song.”
No? How about Joe Biden and Dick Cheney just to name one from each party to keep it balanced? There were others, I believe. And it was meant to include any of the empowered or elite, though ‘senator’ was the euphemism used in the song. That could include college deferments which would automatically help the wealthier families of our nation.
Just google: college deferment vietnam
There is plenty there for you to read that justifies the song.
More to come. I lost most of my post when I’m timed out. I’ll be back to conclude.
