CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: MattyIce on September 19, 2018, 01:48:31 PM
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Jimmy Butler has requested a trade from the Minnesota Timberwolves, league sources tell me and @JonKrawczynski. Butler has given Minnesota a list of one-to-three teams with whom he's open to signing extension, in anticipation of trade.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1042469878949707776
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https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1042469878949707776
Can't believe I missed being 1st.
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@ShamsCharania
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Jimmy Butler has requested a trade from the Minnesota Timberwolves, league sources tell me and @JonKrawczynski. Butler has given Minnesota a list of one-to-three teams with whom he's open to signing extension, in anticipation of trade.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1042469878949707776
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i wonder what teams, hopefully not any NY teams
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Would be super interested in if Boston is one of those teams...
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Would be super interested in if Boston is one of those teams...
Normally I'd say great, but we have enough good wings, and two of them are paid a lot less than Jimmy. I don't see a way it works without the really ugly scenario of shipping out Hayward.
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i hope the clippers go after him
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i wonder what teams, hopefully not any NY teams
Lakers, Knicks, Heat
(Total not-that-random guess.)
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Would be super interested in if Boston is one of those teams...
Normally I'd say great, but we have enough good wings, and two of them are paid a lot less than Jimmy. I don't see a way it works without the really ugly scenario of shipping out Hayward.
I hope not Hayward > Jimmy
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While in the past I would’ve loved Jimmy in green, I don’t think that he’s a good fit with our current ball club.
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fun to look back in time:
(January 2017 Poll: 33 voted yes to trading a hypothetical 2017 #1 pick for Butler, 55 voted no)
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=88555.0
also other good discussions:
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=88977.0 (argument 2017 pick is an overpay for Butler)
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=90026.0 (2017 pick #3 or #4 for Butler)
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=84226.0 (IT + 2016 pick (#3-#5) for Butler)
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=89110.0 (espn hypothetical trade: Butler and Taj Gibson for Brooklyn 2018, Memphis pick, Rozier and filler)
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i wonder what teams, hopefully not any NY teams
Lakers, Knicks, Heat
(Total not-that-random guess.)
Would like to see him on the Heat and in Spo’s system. They could be a good team in the East.
Hopefully he doesn’t get traded to NY, setting up an intolerable year of dumb Knicks fans already penciling in Kyrie as a Knick next year, which many are already doing.
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Would be super interested in if Boston is one of those teams...
Normally I'd say great, but we have enough good wings, and two of them are paid a lot less than Jimmy. I don't see a way it works without the really ugly scenario of shipping out Hayward.
More really if Jimmy included Boston on his list. Do not think he is worth what the T Wolves think his value is.
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My guess on the 3 teams is Knicks, Lakers, Celtics
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While in the past I would’ve loved Jimmy in green, I don’t think that he’s a good fit with our current ball club.
Nope dude seems like a whining crybaby that is never happy wherever hes at
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My guess on the 3 teams is Knicks, Lakers, Celtics
Probably Knicks, Lakers, Clippers in my opinion. With Miami as a long-shot.
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While in the past I would’ve loved Jimmy in green, I don’t think that he’s a good fit with our current ball club.
Nope dude seems like a whining crybaby that is never happy wherever hes at
Yeah. Been thinking for awhile he might be an issue in the locker room.
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Always felt like Butler overvalued himself. He just isn't a super star player IMO
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This is where the Lakers not having the Deng contract becomes a problem, it would have been one of the few contracts in that range that is eligible for trade. Deng and Ball for Butler may have gotten it done. Too late now
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2 things...
Butler is not going to sign an extension now because it will cost him a ton of money
This means teams are not going to give up much value to get him.
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While in the past I would’ve loved Jimmy in green, I don’t think that he’s a good fit with our current ball club.
Nope dude seems like a whining crybaby that is never happy wherever hes at
Yeah. Been thinking for awhile he might be an issue in the locker room.
It's tough for me because while he definitely seems like a malcontent, I can't really blame him for getting frustrated with Wiggins' and Towns' lackadaisacal attitude, especially toward defense, and Chicago had clearly become a dead-end team in need of a blowup by the end. Maybe it's a mix. In any event he ain't coming here so we'll see how he does on team #3.
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Always felt like Butler overvalued himself. He just isn't a super star player IMO
Minny was a 3-4 seed with him, then he missed 20 games and they couldn't keep it together. Maybe he's not a superstar in the traditional since, but he's right there in the next tier.
I think he ends up in Miami.
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2 things...
Butler is not going to sign an extension now because it will cost him a ton of money
This means teams are not going to give up much value to get him.
Agree about the return Minnesota would get. They certainly aren't going to get the return that they gave to Chicago to get him.
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2 things...
Butler is not going to sign an extension now because it will cost him a ton of money
This means teams are not going to give up much value to get him.
Unless he says he will sign an extension with a few teams, which apparently he is saying. Those 3 teams would then have to bid against each other.
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The timing of this wreaks of Lebron/Magic tampering.
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Always felt like Butler overvalued himself. He just isn't a super star player IMO
Minny was a 3-4 seed with him, then he missed 20 games and they couldn't keep it together. Maybe he's not a superstar in the traditional since, but he's right there in the next tier.
I think he ends up in Miami.
I think so too. Even if Miami is not one of the 3 teams on Butler's list, Riley is the kinda guy who would take the chance on it and totally win him over.
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The timing of this wreaks of Lebron/Magic tampering.
If that was the case, they likely would've kept Deng has a salary filler. They can't make a trade now until December.
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Nick Wiggins, Andrew's brother, just quote retweeted Shams' Butler request with a, "Hallejujah!".
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The timing of this wreaks of Lebron/Magic tampering.
Lebron saw the roster he has around him firsthand now that guys are showing up for training camp soon and realized its gonna be a long season if he doesnt get some better guys around him
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Always felt like Butler overvalued himself. He just isn't a super star player IMO
Minny was a 3-4 seed with him, then he missed 20 games and they couldn't keep it together. Maybe he's not a superstar in the traditional since, but he's right there in the next tier.
I think he ends up in Miami.
I think Butler is about a top 12 or 13 player in the league. That's dang good. If traded here he would become the team's best player, IMHO. But, I don't want him here and neither would the Celtics.
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Knicks
Knicks
Knicks
That is where he wants to be IMO...
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Celtics don't need him now.
Not at whatever the price will be.
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Adrian Wojnarowski
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Minnesota's Jimmy Butler has three preferred destinations for a trade, league sources tell ESPN: The Brooklyn Nets, Los Angeles Clippers and New York Knicks. Those three teams have max cap space to sign Butler as a free agent in July.
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The timing of this wreaks of Lebron/Magic tampering.
If that was the case, they likely would've kept Deng has a salary filler. They can't make a trade now until December.
Correct. Good news for Celtics fans. The Lakers are still being run poorly.
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Woj says Nets, Clippers, Knicks are the lucky 3. Had the right cities but lol at the Lakers.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1042479195371266050 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1042479195371266050)
This is clearly a man who just wants to win ;D
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Knicks
Knicks
Knicks
That is where he wants to be IMO...
If Butler is frustrated with Minnesota's players, he's going to go nuts in New York.
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Adrian Wojnarowski
Verified account
@wojespn
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Minnesota's Jimmy Butler has three preferred destinations for a trade, league sources tell ESPN: The Brooklyn Nets, Los Angeles Clippers and New York Knicks. Those three teams have max cap space to sign Butler as a free agent in July.
Well, I think its clear what his intentions are.
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Woj says Nets, Clippers, Knicks are the lucky 3. Had the right cities but lol at the Lakers.
Nets is an interesting option.
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:-[
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Raptors, a team seemingly going all in for 1 year and then blowing it up, should be considered a player for Butler.
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Raptors, a team seemingly going all in for 1 year and then blowing it up, should be considered a player for Butler.
Do they have anything they can trade that would interest the Twolves and also match salary?
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The timing of this wreaks of Lebron/Magic tampering.
If that was the case, they likely would've kept Deng has a salary filler. They can't make a trade now until December.
Didn't realize that. Thanks.
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Nets should do whatever they can to get him. Would instantly make them relevant and add credibility to them as a real and viable New York team and option. The problem is making a trade that makes sense for both teams as I'm not sure Minnesota would want Russell and he clearly is the most valuable asset on the Nets. Though Russell and Crabbe for Butler is somewhat interesting for the Wolves (if I'm the Nets I'd rather keep Crabbe and trade Carroll though even if it meant draft capital).
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Adrian Wojnarowski
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@wojespn
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Minnesota's Jimmy Butler has three preferred destinations for a trade, league sources tell ESPN: The Brooklyn Nets, Los Angeles Clippers and New York Knicks. Those three teams have max cap space to sign Butler as a free agent in July.
Nice! Clippers would be fantastic for the lottery protected 2019 pick.
Knicks wouldn't be bad either so they're out of the tanking picture (Sacramento pick).
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A trade to the Knicks would certainly ramp up the Kyrie to NY rumors again.
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Nets should do whatever they can to get him. Would instantly make them relevant and add credibility to them as a real and viable New York team and option. The problem is making a trade that makes sense for both teams as I'm not sure Minnesota would want Russell and he clearly is the most valuable asset on the Nets. Though Russell and Crabbe for Butler is somewhat interesting for the Wolves (if I'm the Nets I'd rather keep Crabbe and trade Carroll though even if it meant draft capital).
I agree with you, Morey. Russell and Crabbe is a pretty similar value to the Oladipo-Sabonis haul that the Pacers got.
Crabbe can stretch the floor pretty well. He's not an elite defender, but he is pretty good. Russell is a gamble. It makes sense for both teams.
Darkhorse - could the Rockets get in on this? Morey could swing for the fences. Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker for Butler would be a win-now haul for the Wolves.
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Raptors, a team seemingly going all in for 1 year and then blowing it up, should be considered a player for Butler.
Do they have anything they can trade that would interest the Twolves and also match salary?
A package of, say, VanFleet, Miles, Wright and a lottery protected 1st rounder may be enticing to Thibs. A few solid veterans and low/mid range prospects might be all you can expect from an expiring trade request.
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the final thibs piece.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnejdC1XcAAmcRw.jpg)
https://twitter.com/treyzingis/status/1042481570647601152
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the final thibs piece.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnejdC1XcAAmcRw.jpg)
https://twitter.com/treyzingis/status/1042481570647601152
Knicks still have that contract to trade. Which is huge at a moment like this.
Knicks front office outperforming Laker front office here. Let's see
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Thibs traded Lavine, Dunn, and Markkanen for Butler. He has single-handedly ruined that franchise's trajectory.
Could you imagine a lineup of:
Dunn (defensive menace and decent facilitator)
Lavine (pure scorer)
Wiggins (who had improved as a scorer every year until last year)
Markkanen (perfect stretch four next to Towns)
Towns (a natural center on defense who has had to play PF next to Dieng)
That's a lot of young, scary, complementary bucket-getters.
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Butler never impressed me much....Rich man's Ricky Davis.
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Looks like the first domino to fall. If it's the Nets or Knicks, Kyrie's flight risk quotient goes up by quite a bit.
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the final thibs piece.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnejdC1XcAAmcRw.jpg)
https://twitter.com/treyzingis/status/1042481570647601152
Knicks still have that contract to trade. Which is huge at a moment like this.
Knicks front office outperforming Laker front office here. Let's see
The Knicks would have to give up quite a bit to get Minnesota to take on Noah for 2 years
The contract could be valuable as an expiring, but with 2 years remaining it's a pretty big price to pay
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Raptors, a team seemingly going all in for 1 year and then blowing it up, should be considered a player for Butler.
Do they have anything they can trade that would interest the Twolves and also match salary?
A package of, say, VanFleet, Miles, Wright and a lottery protected 1st rounder may be enticing to Thibs. A few solid veterans and low/mid range prospects might be all you can expect from an expiring trade request.
That would be an incredible move for Toronto. They'd lose a bit of depth, but that starting lineup would have a very solid argument for being the best in the East
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Thibs traded Lavine, Dunn, and Markkanen for Butler. He has single-handedly ruined that franchise's trajectory.
Could you imagine a lineup of:
Dunn (defensive menace and decent facilitator)
Lavine (pure scorer)
Wiggins (who had improved as a scorer every year until last year)
Markkanen (perfect stretch four next to Towns)
Towns (a natural center on defense who has had to play PF next to Dieng)
That's a lot of young, scary, complementary bucket-getters.
That lineup might be fun to watch, but they'd be the worst defensive team in the league.
Towns couldn't guard you.
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Would be super interested in if Boston is one of those teams...
That's why we got Hayward instead of Jimmy Butler (or Paul George) in the summer of 2017.
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Butler never impressed me much....Rich man's Ricky Davis.
Don't you mean 'Premium Brand Ricky Davis?' Hey, at least he's not 'Kroger Brand Ricky Davis.'
As for the actual trade request, interesting teams to say the least, but at least he is doing everything he can to make sure he gets his 5-yr max with 8% raises. Hope this doesn't affect Kyrie, but who knows anymore?
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Always felt like Butler overvalued himself. He just isn't a super star player IMO
Minny was a 3-4 seed with him, then he missed 20 games and they couldn't keep it together. Maybe he's not a superstar in the traditional since, but he's right there in the next tier.
I think he ends up in Miami.
He was just listed at 10 in nba player rankings. The real issue is that most fans underrate Butler.
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A trade to the Knicks would certainly ramp up the Kyrie to NY rumors again.
Pretty much.
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As a side note, Butler strikes me as a red-a*s. Not necessarily a bad thing but something to consider.
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I do not understand the Ricky Davis comparison. Davis was offensive flash, poor defender, played in 11 playoff games... A better comparison would be a poor man's Scottie Pippen, minus the playoff pedigree. Lock down perimeter defender, good secondary scoring option with a solid offensive repertoire.
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Raptors, a team seemingly going all in for 1 year and then blowing it up, should be considered a player for Butler.
Do they have anything they can trade that would interest the Twolves and also match salary?
A package of, say, VanFleet, Miles, Wright and a lottery protected 1st rounder may be enticing to Thibs. A few solid veterans and low/mid range prospects might be all you can expect from an expiring trade request.
VanFleet just re-signed and can't be traded until Dec
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I do not understand the Ricky Davis comparison. Davis was offensive flash, poor defender, played in 11 playoff games... A better comparison would be a poor man's Scottie Pippen, minus the playoff pedigree. Lock down perimeter defender, good secondary scoring option with a solid offensive repertoire.
I just meant his impact on the court....winning games...not really worth trading any of our guys, for a FA
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Raptors, a team seemingly going all in for 1 year and then blowing it up, should be considered a player for Butler.
Do they have anything they can trade that would interest the Twolves and also match salary?
A package of, say, VanFleet, Miles, Wright and a lottery protected 1st rounder may be enticing to Thibs. A few solid veterans and low/mid range prospects might be all you can expect from an expiring trade request.
VanFleet just re-signed and can't be traded until Dec
Actually not until January 15th.
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I do not understand the Ricky Davis comparison. Davis was offensive flash, poor defender, played in 11 playoff games... A better comparison would be a poor man's Scottie Pippen, minus the playoff pedigree. Lock down perimeter defender, good secondary scoring option with a solid offensive repertoire.
I just meant his impact on the court....winning games...not really worth trading any of our guys, for a FA
And I was just rehashing some of LarBrd's classic Butler comparisons. I messed it up, though - the references involved Mac 'n Cheese, not just Butler :P
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If those are only 3 teams then the price to get Butler won’t be that high.
What could the Clippers give up? Say 2 expiring contracts in Wes Johnson, Marjanovic, the rookie Gilgeous-Alexander, and 2 future firsts maybe. A starting 5 of Bradley, Butler, Harris, Gallo, and Gortat could be appealing with Butler handling the ball a lot. Could be good news for the Clippers pick that is lottery protected.
For the Knicks maybe Noah’s big expiring contract, rookie Knox, and 2 future firsts?
Would the Nets be willing to trade future firsts ever again? Lol
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Kawhi Leonard requested a trade as well but not to the Raptors.
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Thibs traded Lavine, Dunn, and Markkanen for Butler. He has single-handedly ruined that franchise's trajectory.
Could you imagine a lineup of:
Dunn (defensive menace and decent facilitator)
Lavine (pure scorer)
Wiggins (who had improved as a scorer every year until last year)
Markkanen (perfect stretch four next to Towns)
Towns (a natural center on defense who has had to play PF next to Dieng)
That's a lot of young, scary, complementary bucket-getters.
This is not entirely correct. Minni also got the #16 pick which ended up being former Creighton star Justin Patton. I don't think too many were saying that was a bad trade for Minni at the time. It looks bad now that Butler has gone rogue. I think all of these players are overrated, Butler, Levine, Dunn, all of them. Markkanen and Patton, TBD.
Butler wanting to be traded and Minni actually trading him are two different things. We'll see. I don't think Butler is as valuable around the league as he thinks. I have no interest in him in Boston. I like our team just the way it is unless we get a very promising starting level big in a deal.
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If those are only 3 teams then the price to get Butler won’t be that high.
What could the Clippers give up? Say 2 expiring contracts in Wes Johnson, Marjanovic, the rookie Gilgeous-Alexander, and 2 future firsts maybe. A starting 5 of Bradley, Butler, Harris, Gallo, and Gortat could be appealing with Butler handling the ball a lot. Could be good news for the Clippers pick that is lottery protected.
For the Knicks maybe Noah’s big expiring contract, rookie Knox, and 2 future firsts?
Would the Nets be willing to trade future firsts ever again? Lol
I think you need to gauge Butler's valuable comparable to what the Pacers got for George, which means 1sts may not need to be included. One prospect and one starting caliber player with upside might get it done.
Clippers: Shai, Harris
Nets: Crabbe, Russell
Knicks: Hardaway, Frankie
I do agree that a Clippers team that has a backcourt of Williams-Bradley-Beverly-Teodosic, a wing rotation of Butler-Harris-Gallinari-Luc, and a big rotation of Gortat-Harrell would be pretty interesting. If Doc can put the pieces together and they can stay healthy, that team could make noise.
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If those are only 3 teams then the price to get Butler won’t be that high.
What could the Clippers give up? Say 2 expiring contracts in Wes Johnson, Marjanovic, the rookie Gilgeous-Alexander, and 2 future firsts maybe. A starting 5 of Bradley, Butler, Harris, Gallo, and Gortat could be appealing with Butler handling the ball a lot. Could be good news for the Clippers pick that is lottery protected.
For the Knicks maybe Noah’s big expiring contract, rookie Knox, and 2 future firsts?
Would the Nets be willing to trade future firsts ever again? Lol
I think you need to gauge Butler's valuable comparable to what the Pacers got for George, which means 1sts may not need to be included. One prospect and one starting caliber player with upside might get it done.
Clippers: Shai, Harris
Nets: Crabbe, Russell
Knicks: Hardaway, Frankie
I do agree that a Clippers team that has a backcourt of Williams-Bradley-Beverly-Teodosic, a wing rotation of Butler-Harris-Gallinari-Luc, and a big rotation of Gortat-Harrell would be pretty interesting. If Doc can put the pieces together and they can stay healthy, that team could make noise.
Don't be a pu$$$y and go ahead and try to spell Ntilinka. ;D
Edit: I just had to look it up and I effed it up. So if you can't spell his name how can you trade him?
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Adrian Wojnarowski
Verified account
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Minnesota's Jimmy Butler has three preferred destinations for a trade, league sources tell ESPN: The Brooklyn Nets, Los Angeles Clippers and New York Knicks. Those three teams have max cap space to sign Butler as a free agent in July.
Well, I think its clear what his intentions are.
If he's traded, don't his Bird rights go with him? I don't follow why cap room of the receiving team matters...is there some nuance about how much he can be re-signed for?
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If I were New Orleans I'd try to get in on this.
They have to gamble to keep AD.
Julius Randle could be great next to towns.
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Here comes the Irving trade rumors .
JB ,,please go to LA
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I'm not praying but I'm doing everything close to it. PLEASE NO DANNY!! Gotta google voodoo...
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Would be funny if Raptors trade for him
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I'm not praying but I'm doing everything close to it. PLEASE NO DANNY!! Gotta google voodoo...
I wouldn't worry about that.
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Here comes the Irving trade rumors .
JB ,,please go to LA
Yea. I’m hoping he goes to LA.
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He's going to NY.
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/Vr20CbOiAKEmJpRKJVJdTw--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/homerun/csnbayarea.com/e3bde9e2dac9ec9d2a2f8418697f3fe6)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1k-c_cQY_XI/VoAYxc3Z6GI/AAAAAAAAOJc/DgwQelhQH20/s1600/5BbwReO.png)
He and Clyde have too much style at stake for him to NOT go there.
While the beatings from BOS "WILL" continue for the foreseeable future at least they can swap style stories after each game.
EDIT - Just wanted to add that this post is PURE speculation - except for my last sentence.
The beatings WILL most definitely continue - no matter who they bring in.
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What do the Knicks, the Nets and the Clips have in common (apart from being big market teams)? They can trade for Butler and then create enough cap space to go after Kyrie next summer.
Assuming Butler wants to team up with Kyrie (and vice versa), I'd offer Kyrie to the Wolves in exchange for KAT+fillers. It's a longshot, but stranger things have happened. At the end of the day, this is possibly the only way for Thibs to keep Butler in Minny.
I get that Kyrie is the better fit for the C's. Having said that,
- KAT is about 4 years younger.
- He has never missed a game during his 3 seasons in the league.
- We already have a starting-caliber PG in Rozier.
- Horford is on the wrong side of 30.
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What do the Knicks, the Nets and the Clips have in common (apart from being big market teams)? They can trade for Butler and then create enough cap space to go after Kyrie next summer.
Assuming Butler wants to team up with Kyrie (and vice versa), I'd offer Kyrie to the Wolves in exchange for KAT+fillers. It's a longshot, but stranger things have happened. At the end of the day, this is possibly the only way for Thibs to keep Butler in Minny.
I get that Kyrie is the better fit for the C's. Having said that,
- KAT is about 4 years younger.
- He has never missed a game during his 3 seasons in the league.
- We already have a starting-caliber PG in Rozier.
- Horford is on the wrong side of 30.
Well that would be something.
Add a pick, cash, and dump Bird mid flight, and maybe signing Smart to that deal was a pretty brilliant move, as he becomes solidified in that 3rd guard spot.
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What do the Knicks, the Nets and the Clips have in common (apart from being big market teams)? They can trade for Butler and then create enough cap space to go after Kyrie next summer.
Assuming Butler wants to team up with Kyrie (and vice versa), I'd offer Kyrie to the Wolves in exchange for KAT+fillers. It's a longshot, but stranger things have happened. At the end of the day, this is possibly the only way for Thibs to keep Butler in Minny.
I get that Kyrie is the better fit for the C's. Having said that,
- KAT is about 4 years younger.
- He has never missed a game during his 3 seasons in the league.
- We already have a starting-caliber PG in Rozier.
- Horford is on the wrong side of 30.
This is exactly what a friend and I were talking about. I'm not a huge KAT fan, but if anywhere can set him straight it's an environment with CBS, Al and Smart.
Lots of smoke
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What do the Knicks, the Nets and the Clips have in common (apart from being big market teams)? They can trade for Butler and then create enough cap space to go after Kyrie next summer.
Assuming Butler wants to team up with Kyrie (and vice versa), I'd offer Kyrie to the Wolves in exchange for KAT+fillers. It's a longshot, but stranger things have happened. At the end of the day, this is possibly the only way for Thibs to keep Butler in Minny.
I get that Kyrie is the better fit for the C's. Having said that,
- KAT is about 4 years younger.
- He has never missed a game during his 3 seasons in the league.
- We already have a starting-caliber PG in Rozier.
- Horford is on the wrong side of 30.
This is exactly what a friend and I were talking about. I'm not a huge KAT fan, but if anywhere can set him straight it's an environment with CBS, Al and Smart.
Lots of smoke
That all sounds sensible. I wouldn't do it, though. I want to see what this Celtics team we have now looks like healthy. I think they're contenders without doing anything.
How bad must it be in Minnesota that Butler won't play it out for 1 more season. Or maybe he thinks it'll make it better for whichever his new team is to maneuver salary with next summer in mind? Is he really thinking that far ahead?
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What do the Knicks, the Nets and the Clips have in common (apart from being big market teams)? They can trade for Butler and then create enough cap space to go after Kyrie next summer.
Assuming Butler wants to team up with Kyrie (and vice versa), I'd offer Kyrie to the Wolves in exchange for KAT+fillers. It's a longshot, but stranger things have happened. At the end of the day, this is possibly the only way for Thibs to keep Butler in Minny.
I get that Kyrie is the better fit for the C's. Having said that,
- KAT is about 4 years younger.
- He has never missed a game during his 3 seasons in the league.
- We already have a starting-caliber PG in Rozier.
- Horford is on the wrong side of 30.
terrible idea because neither butler nor kyrie want to be in Minnesota. Butler burned that bridge today. There’s no turning back from a trade request. He essentially told everyone in Minnesota “I hate you.” This isn’t nba 2k
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Wojo saying he wants to go to the Clippers..what can they offer?
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and be funny all the top free agents want to go to play for the Clippers not Lakers..no one wants to play with Lebron..kawhi also will go to clips if butler there next season
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What do the Knicks, the Nets and the Clips have in common (apart from being big market teams)? They can trade for Butler and then create enough cap space to go after Kyrie next summer.
Assuming Butler wants to team up with Kyrie (and vice versa), I'd offer Kyrie to the Wolves in exchange for KAT+fillers. It's a longshot, but stranger things have happened. At the end of the day, this is possibly the only way for Thibs to keep Butler in Minny.
I get that Kyrie is the better fit for the C's. Having said that,
- KAT is about 4 years younger.
- He has never missed a game during his 3 seasons in the league.
- We already have a starting-caliber PG in Rozier.
- Horford is on the wrong side of 30.
This is exactly what a friend and I were talking about. I'm not a huge KAT fan, but if anywhere can set him straight it's an environment with CBS, Al and Smart.
Lots of smoke
That all sounds sensible. I wouldn't do it, though. I want to see what this Celtics team we have now looks like healthy. I think they're contenders without doing anything.
How bad must it be in Minnesota that Butler won't play it out for 1 more season. Or maybe he thinks it'll make it better for whichever his new team is to maneuver salary with next summer in mind? Is he really thinking that far ahead?
I really think Butler might be the problem. He had issues in Chicago both with the old vets and then with the young guys. He has a problem in Minnesota as well.
That said, he is a really good player and while I'm not a huge fan of Irving, if Butler ends up on one of the NY teams, I'd be pretty concerned that Irving will bolt next summer to join Butler as such if I'm Ainge, I at least call the Wolves to gauge interest.
I think Philly should offer Covington and Saric (and Bayless for salary filler) and see if that gets it done. I think that is an ok give even if Butler bolts next summer as they would be a pretty darn nasty team this season adding Butler for that package (even if it leaves them a bit light down low).
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This is the worst possible thing to happen. It’s obvious that he wants to go to New York and team up with Kyrie now. We will be thinking about this all year now.
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What do the Knicks, the Nets and the Clips have in common (apart from being big market teams)? They can trade for Butler and then create enough cap space to go after Kyrie next summer.
Assuming Butler wants to team up with Kyrie (and vice versa), I'd offer Kyrie to the Wolves in exchange for KAT+fillers. It's a longshot, but stranger things have happened. At the end of the day, this is possibly the only way for Thibs to keep Butler in Minny.
I get that Kyrie is the better fit for the C's. Having said that,
- KAT is about 4 years younger.
- He has never missed a game during his 3 seasons in the league.
- We already have a starting-caliber PG in Rozier.
- Horford is on the wrong side of 30.
This is exactly what a friend and I were talking about. I'm not a huge KAT fan, but if anywhere can set him straight it's an environment with CBS, Al and Smart.
Lots of smoke
That all sounds sensible. I wouldn't do it, though. I want to see what this Celtics team we have now looks like healthy. I think they're contenders without doing anything.
How bad must it be in Minnesota that Butler won't play it out for 1 more season. Or maybe he thinks it'll make it better for whichever his new team is to maneuver salary with next summer in mind? Is he really thinking that far ahead?
I don't think I'd do it either, unless Kyrie says something to the effect of "there is no way I'm resigning here", but that doesn't seem like his style.
I think Butler is the problem. He was the problem with DRose, now he's a problem here. Seems like an awful locker-room presence
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Per Woj, he wants the Clippers. Make it happen Doc.
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Wojo saying he wants to go to the Clippers..what can they offer?
Nice, looked for it after you posted about it
Minnesota's Jimmy Butler is most determined to find a way to the Los Angeles Clippers, league sources tell ESPN. The appeal of partnering with a second star - the Clippers have two max contract slots available in summer free agency - is an intriguing scenario for him.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1042568202314764289
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Per Woj, he wants the Clippers. Make it happen Doc.
Doc's not the GM anymore, which is probably a good thing if we want this to happen. He was a horrible GM, he would have found a way to screw it up.
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I like the idea of Butler to the Clippers. Once Jerry West arrived there I was sure they would get better.
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What do the Knicks, the Nets and the Clips have in common (apart from being big market teams)? They can trade for Butler and then create enough cap space to go after Kyrie next summer.
Assuming Butler wants to team up with Kyrie (and vice versa), I'd offer Kyrie to the Wolves in exchange for KAT+fillers. It's a longshot, but stranger things have happened. At the end of the day, this is possibly the only way for Thibs to keep Butler in Minny.
I get that Kyrie is the better fit for the C's. Having said that,
- KAT is about 4 years younger.
- He has never missed a game during his 3 seasons in the league.
- We already have a starting-caliber PG in Rozier.
- Horford is on the wrong side of 30.
terrible idea because neither butler nor kyrie want to be in Minnesota. Butler burned that bridge today. There’s no turning back from a trade request. He essentially told everyone in Minnesota “I hate you.” This isn’t nba 2k
For what it's worth, Kyrie had the Wolves on his list of preferred trade destinations last summer.
Spurs, Heat, Knicks, Wolves. This was the list.
As for Butler, I bet the Wolves front office would be happy to see him re-sign with them, no matter what happened today. Chances are that the same goes for the vast majority of the fans.
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On tv it said “butler prefers clippers but open to nyk or brooklyn”
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On tv it said “butler prefers clippers but open to nyk or brooklyn”
Yep. Clippers have the easiest path to a second max contract next summer.
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One of the reasons Butler wants out of Minnesota is Townes - the guy reportedly only cares about his offense and apparently does not have the greatest work ethic or commitment to his team or to winning. In other words, a self-centered headcase who doesn't play much defense. We already got one of those - I don't want another.
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One of the reasons Butler wants out of Minnesota is Townes - the guy reportedly only cares about his offense and apparently does not have the greatest work ethic or commitment to his team or to winning. In other words, a self-centered headcase who doesn't play much defense. We already got one of those - I don't want another.
which headcase do we have? It’s really hard to consider kyrie a headcase considering he’s been an outstanding player since he’s been here. He’s surprised me in all aspects of his game
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I knew that signing had disaster written all over it. I don't know what he was thinking.
One of the reasons Butler wants out of Minnesota is Townes - the guy reportedly only cares about his offense and apparently does not have the greatest work ethic or commitment to his team or to winning. In other words, a self-centered headcase who doesn't play much defense. We already got one of those - I don't want another.
which headcase do we have? It’s really hard to consider kyrie a headcase considering he’s been an outstanding player since he’s been here. He’s surprised me in all aspects of his game
TP
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One of the reasons Butler wants out of Minnesota is Townes - the guy reportedly only cares about his offense and apparently does not have the greatest work ethic or commitment to his team or to winning. In other words, a self-centered headcase who doesn't play much defense. We already got one of those - I don't want another.
which headcase do we have? It’s really hard to consider kyrie a headcase considering he’s been an outstanding player since he’s been here. He’s surprised me in all aspects of his game
In his own world Kyrie is a locker room cancer when in the real world its the opposite. He gets along very well with the rest of the guys.
Wiggins etc apparently doesn't like Butler. We all knew Butler threw his young teammates under the bus in Chicago. If there's a headcase here its Butler.
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I don't think the rumors of Kyrie and Butler trying to team up this offseason are serious. If they have these secret strong desire to team up, then why wouldn't the Celtics be on Butler's wish list? It is the most simple way to accomplish that. I feel very safe about Kyrie coming back next season.
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One of the reasons Butler wants out of Minnesota is Townes - the guy reportedly only cares about his offense and apparently does not have the greatest work ethic or commitment to his team or to winning. In other words, a self-centered headcase who doesn't play much defense. We already got one of those - I don't want another.
which headcase do we have? It’s really hard to consider kyrie a headcase considering he’s been an outstanding player since he’s been here. He’s surprised me in all aspects of his game
In his own world Kyrie is a locker room cancer when in the real world its the opposite. He gets along very well with the rest of the guys.
Wiggins etc apparently doesn't like Butler. We all knew Butler threw his young teammates under the bus in Chicago. If there's a headcase here its Butler.
Yeah, the guy hates Kyrie and is really just making things up at this point. Nothing new.
Everywhere Butler goes he's disliked and causes problems. Way more of a locker room problem than Kyrie, and a bigger one than Towns as far as we've seen
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If those are only 3 teams then the price to get Butler won’t be that high.
What could the Clippers give up? Say 2 expiring contracts in Wes Johnson, Marjanovic, the rookie Gilgeous-Alexander, and 2 future firsts maybe. A starting 5 of Bradley, Butler, Harris, Gallo, and Gortat could be appealing with Butler handling the ball a lot. Could be good news for the Clippers pick that is lottery protected.
For the Knicks maybe Noah’s big expiring contract, rookie Knox, and 2 future firsts?
Would the Nets be willing to trade future firsts ever again? Lol
I think you need to gauge Butler's valuable comparable to what the Pacers got for George, which means 1sts may not need to be included. One prospect and one starting caliber player with upside might get it done.
Clippers: Shai, Harris
Nets: Crabbe, Russell
Knicks: Hardaway, Frankie
I do agree that a Clippers team that has a backcourt of Williams-Bradley-Beverly-Teodosic, a wing rotation of Butler-Harris-Gallinari-Luc, and a big rotation of Gortat-Harrell would be pretty interesting. If Doc can put the pieces together and they can stay healthy, that team could make noise.
That could work as well for a Clippers trade. The only difference is I believe Oladipo had about 3 or 4 years left on his contract whereas Harris has 1. On a side note I think Harris is a little underrated player.
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I don't think the rumors of Kyrie and Butler trying to team up this offseason are serious. If they have these secret strong desire to team up, then why wouldn't the Celtics be on Butler's wish list? It is the most simple way to accomplish that. I feel very safe about Kyrie coming back next season.
unless neither one wants to be in Boston. Butler can force his way out now and that team can use salary that makes it possible for Irving to then join him next summer.
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One of the reasons Butler wants out of Minnesota is Townes - the guy reportedly only cares about his offense and apparently does not have the greatest work ethic or commitment to his team or to winning. In other words, a self-centered headcase who doesn't play much defense. We already got one of those - I don't want another.
I know this is the narrative but I am not sure I buy it. It seems that Butler is really full of himself. Towns may have issues too but Butler clearly just wants out. I don't think it is fair to blame Towns in any way. There are going to be players with attitude issues at least as bad as Town's on every team. If Butler wants to be "the man" he should be more of a leader and deal with the locker room issues (if in fact there really is an issue with Towns). And do you really think that if Towns was an issue that Thibs wouldn't deal with it very directly?
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One of the reasons Butler wants out of Minnesota is Townes - the guy reportedly only cares about his offense and apparently does not have the greatest work ethic or commitment to his team or to winning. In other words, a self-centered headcase who doesn't play much defense. We already got one of those - I don't want another.
I know this is the narrative but I am not sure I buy it. It seems that Butler is really full of himself. Towns may have issues too but Butler clearly just wants out. I don't think it is fair to blame Towns in any way. There are going to be players with attitude issues at least as bad as Town's on every team. If Butler wants to be "the man" he should be more of a leader and deal with the locker room issues (if in fact there really is an issue with Towns). And do you really think that if Towns was an issue that Thibs wouldn't deal with it very directly?
Yeah, I would not be at all surprised if the Twolves perform much better on the court without Butler.
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One of the reasons Butler wants out of Minnesota is Townes - the guy reportedly only cares about his offense and apparently does not have the greatest work ethic or commitment to his team or to winning. In other words, a self-centered headcase who doesn't play much defense. We already got one of those - I don't want another.
I know this is the narrative but I am not sure I buy it. It seems that Butler is really full of himself. Towns may have issues too but Butler clearly just wants out. I don't think it is fair to blame Towns in any way. There are going to be players with attitude issues at least as bad as Town's on every team. If Butler wants to be "the man" he should be more of a leader and deal with the locker room issues (if in fact there really is an issue with Towns). And do you really think that if Towns was an issue that Thibs wouldn't deal with it very directly?
Yeah, I would not be at all surprised if the Twolves perform much better on the court without Butler.
They certainly didn't last year when Butler was out injured.
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One of the reasons Butler wants out of Minnesota is Townes - the guy reportedly only cares about his offense and apparently does not have the greatest work ethic or commitment to his team or to winning. In other words, a self-centered headcase who doesn't play much defense. We already got one of those - I don't want another.
I know this is the narrative but I am not sure I buy it. It seems that Butler is really full of himself. Towns may have issues too but Butler clearly just wants out. I don't think it is fair to blame Towns in any way. There are going to be players with attitude issues at least as bad as Town's on every team. If Butler wants to be "the man" he should be more of a leader and deal with the locker room issues (if in fact there really is an issue with Towns). And do you really think that if Towns was an issue that Thibs wouldn't deal with it very directly?
Yeah, I would not be at all surprised if the Twolves perform much better on the court without Butler.
They certainly didn't last year when Butler was out injured.
Losing Butler for nothing due to injury =/= trading Butler for valuable pieces that can play
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On tv it said “butler prefers clippers but open to nyk or brooklyn”
Yep. Clippers have the easiest path to a second max contract next summer.
If Butler’s #1 destination is the LA Clippers, then I highly doubt teaming up with Kyrie is in the works. There is no way Kyrie wants to play second fiddle to LeBron in LA, especially since the Clippers are LA’s lesser of the two teams.
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On tv it said “butler prefers clippers but open to nyk or brooklyn”
Yep. Clippers have the easiest path to a second max contract next summer.
If Butler’s #1 destination is the LA Clippers, then I highly doubt teaming up with Kyrie is in the works. There is no way Kyrie wants to play second fiddle to LeBron in LA, especially since the Clippers are LA’s lesser of the two teams.
There’s also something to be said with the NBA not wanting the full balance of power not only in the same conference but all in the same state with GSW , Lakers and Clippers if that happens
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On tv it said “butler prefers clippers but open to nyk or brooklyn”
Knicks have stated that they don't want to give up assets to get Butler. Good news for him teaming up with KI in New York.
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On tv it said “butler prefers clippers but open to nyk or brooklyn”
Yep. Clippers have the easiest path to a second max contract next summer.
If Butler’s #1 destination is the LA Clippers, then I highly doubt teaming up with Kyrie is in the works. There is no way Kyrie wants to play second fiddle to LeBron in LA, especially since the Clippers are LA’s lesser of the two teams.
Plus Woj reports that Clips remain Leonard’s first choice next season.
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On tv it said “butler prefers clippers but open to nyk or brooklyn”
Yep. Clippers have the easiest path to a second max contract next summer.
If Butler’s #1 destination is the LA Clippers, then I highly doubt teaming up with Kyrie is in the works. There is no way Kyrie wants to play second fiddle to LeBron in LA, especially since the Clippers are LA’s lesser of the two teams.
Plus Woj reports that Clips remain Leonard’s first choice next season.
well if the Clips get both of them next season it should further ensure a relative cakewalk to the Finals for the C's if they keep Kyrie (and probably even if they don't)
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On tv it said “butler prefers clippers but open to nyk or brooklyn”
Yep. Clippers have the easiest path to a second max contract next summer.
If Butler’s #1 destination is the LA Clippers, then I highly doubt teaming up with Kyrie is in the works. There is no way Kyrie wants to play second fiddle to LeBron in LA, especially since the Clippers are LA’s lesser of the two teams.
Plus Woj reports that Clips remain Leonard’s first choice next season.
If true, this is interesting. In the age when all the stars are trying to play with other stars, suddenly nobody wants to play with LeBron.
- Kawhi was interested in Lakers, but now prefers Clippers because of LeBron.
- Butler was interested in Lakers, but now prefers Clippers because of LeBron.
- George was interested in Lakers, but chose to stay in OKC. Also he didn't want to be traded to Cleveland before last season while LeBron was still there.
- Irving played with LeBron and asked for a trade.
Couple of articles talking about it here (https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/9/19/17880040/lebron-james-lakers-jimmy-butler-free-agency-rumors) and here (https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2018/9/19/17880044/jimmy-butler-nba-trade-rumors-lakers-lebron-james-free-agency-kyrie-irving-paul-george-timberwolves), though not any great sources, really all just speculation with nothing else to talk about.
Interesting to think about though. It could be people don't want to be in LeBron's shadow and watch him get all the credit, or maybe they just think LeBron is too old to team up with, maybe it's nothing against LeBron but they're just not as close with him because he's 5-8 years older than most of the stars in the league now and they prefer teaming up with guys from their own "generation", or maybe it has nothing to do with LeBron at all.
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On tv it said “butler prefers clippers but open to nyk or brooklyn”
Yep. Clippers have the easiest path to a second max contract next summer.
If Butler’s #1 destination is the LA Clippers, then I highly doubt teaming up with Kyrie is in the works. There is no way Kyrie wants to play second fiddle to LeBron in LA, especially since the Clippers are LA’s lesser of the two teams.
Plus Woj reports that Clips remain Leonard’s first choice next season.
If true, this is interesting. In the age when all the stars are trying to play with other stars, suddenly nobody wants to play with LeBron.
- Kawhi was interested in Lakers, but now prefers Clippers because of LeBron.
- Butler was interested in Lakers, but now prefers Clippers because of LeBron.
- George was interested in Lakers, but chose to stay in OKC. Also he didn't want to be traded to Cleveland before last season while LeBron was still there.
- Irving played with LeBron and asked for a trade.
Couple of articles talking about it here (https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/9/19/17880040/lebron-james-lakers-jimmy-butler-free-agency-rumors) and here (https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2018/9/19/17880044/jimmy-butler-nba-trade-rumors-lakers-lebron-james-free-agency-kyrie-irving-paul-george-timberwolves), though not any great sources, really all just speculation with nothing else to talk about.
Interesting to think about though. It could be people don't want to be in LeBron's shadow and watch him get all the credit, or maybe they just think LeBron is too old to team up with, maybe it's nothing against LeBron but they're just not as close with him because he's 5-8 years older than most of the stars in the league now and they prefer teaming up with guys from their own "generation", or maybe it has nothing to do with LeBron at all.
I didn’t even think about the guys that you mentioned. I wonder if part of it goes back to LeBron’s time with the Miami Heat? Miami was Dwayne Wade’s team, and Bosh was the other star player who came from Toronto. Yet, during that whole time those guys played together in Miami, LeBron seemed to get all of the attention and credit. Irving and Love received the same treatment in Cleveland.
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On tv it said “butler prefers clippers but open to nyk or brooklyn”
Yep. Clippers have the easiest path to a second max contract next summer.
If Butler’s #1 destination is the LA Clippers, then I highly doubt teaming up with Kyrie is in the works. There is no way Kyrie wants to play second fiddle to LeBron in LA, especially since the Clippers are LA’s lesser of the two teams.
Plus Woj reports that Clips remain Leonard’s first choice next season.
If true, this is interesting. In the age when all the stars are trying to play with other stars, suddenly nobody wants to play with LeBron.
- Kawhi was interested in Lakers, but now prefers Clippers because of LeBron.
- Butler was interested in Lakers, but now prefers Clippers because of LeBron.
- George was interested in Lakers, but chose to stay in OKC. Also he didn't want to be traded to Cleveland before last season while LeBron was still there.
- Irving played with LeBron and asked for a trade.
Couple of articles talking about it here (https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/9/19/17880040/lebron-james-lakers-jimmy-butler-free-agency-rumors) and here (https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2018/9/19/17880044/jimmy-butler-nba-trade-rumors-lakers-lebron-james-free-agency-kyrie-irving-paul-george-timberwolves), though not any great sources, really all just speculation with nothing else to talk about.
Interesting to think about though. It could be people don't want to be in LeBron's shadow and watch him get all the credit, or maybe they just think LeBron is too old to team up with, maybe it's nothing against LeBron but they're just not as close with him because he's 5-8 years older than most of the stars in the league now and they prefer teaming up with guys from their own "generation", or maybe it has nothing to do with LeBron at all.
I didn’t even think about the guys that you mentioned. I wonder if part of it goes back to LeBron’s time with the Miami Heat? Miami was Dwayne Wade’s team, and Bosh was the other star player who came from Toronto. Yet, during that whole time those guys played together in Miami, LeBron seemed to get all of the attention and credit. Irving and Love received the same treatment in Cleveland.
Well in Cleveland it didn't help that Irving and Love were injured in the Cleveland's first Finals and Lebron took a dominant Golden State team to 6 games all by himself. I know Iggy got the Finals MVP but the real MVP of that Finals was Lebron in a losing effort.
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I think Butler thinks AD is coming to the Clips is why he is going there. IMO
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Kawhi and Butler both going to Clippers next season..they will try and get Kyrie come also..if i was T-Wolves, i trade him to Nets to get him out of the West
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I didn’t realize Butler is already 29. I would be careful signing him to a max contract at age 30. The back end of that contract could be ugly. You might get another couple prime seasons from him, but maybe not much more.
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I didn’t realize Butler is already 29. I would be careful signing him to a max contract at age 30. The back end of that contract could be ugly. You might get another couple prime seasons from him, but maybe not much more.
Especially considering his reliance on his athleticism to score at the ring and defend, he could decline quite quickly
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Story filed to ESPN: Rival executives lobbing calls to Minnesota’s front office on possibility of trading for Jimmy Butler are getting inquires shut down. Minnesota is telling teams that Butler’s an elite player and franchise intends to keep him.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043160715773784064?s=21
Also: As the case with past trades involving Minnesota stars Kevin Garnett and Kevin Love, owner Glen Taylor will be a major part of the process on deciding whether to move Butler this season.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043161490285625344?s=21
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Story filed to ESPN: Rival executives lobbing calls to Minnesota’s front office on possibility of trading for Jimmy Butler are getting inquires shut down. Minnesota is telling teams that Butler’s an elite player and franchise intends to keep him.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043160715773784064?s=21
Also: As the case with past trades involving Minnesota stars Kevin Garnett and Kevin Love, owner Glen Taylor will be a major part of the process on deciding whether to move Butler this season.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043161490285625344?s=21
Lol. This is a desperate attempt to keep some semblance of leverage. They have none. They have to trade Butler. They can't keep him.
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Story filed to ESPN: Rival executives lobbing calls to Minnesota’s front office on possibility of trading for Jimmy Butler are getting inquires shut down. Minnesota is telling teams that Butler’s an elite player and franchise intends to keep him.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043160715773784064?s=21
Also: As the case with past trades involving Minnesota stars Kevin Garnett and Kevin Love, owner Glen Taylor will be a major part of the process on deciding whether to move Butler this season.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043161490285625344?s=21
Lol. This is a desperate attempt to keep some semblance of leverage. They have none. They have to trade Butler. They can't keep him.
They don’t have to. He’s under contract, he has to play for them. They can let him walk when his deal expires rather than trading him for peanuts if they like
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Story filed to ESPN: Rival executives lobbing calls to Minnesota’s front office on possibility of trading for Jimmy Butler are getting inquires shut down. Minnesota is telling teams that Butler’s an elite player and franchise intends to keep him.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043160715773784064?s=21
Also: As the case with past trades involving Minnesota stars Kevin Garnett and Kevin Love, owner Glen Taylor will be a major part of the process on deciding whether to move Butler this season.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043161490285625344?s=21
Lol. This is a desperate attempt to keep some semblance of leverage. They have none. They have to trade Butler. They can't keep him.
They don’t have to. He’s under contract, he has to play for them. They can let him walk when his deal expires rather than trading him for peanuts if they like
Better to have a star and make the playoffs and earning playoff money and experience for the players than to trade Butler for pennies on the dollar and not make the playoffs.
This Minnesota team wasn't good last year when Butler wasn't playing. Without him this year they go into the lottery.
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Story filed to ESPN: Rival executives lobbing calls to Minnesota’s front office on possibility of trading for Jimmy Butler are getting inquires shut down. Minnesota is telling teams that Butler’s an elite player and franchise intends to keep him.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043160715773784064?s=21
Also: As the case with past trades involving Minnesota stars Kevin Garnett and Kevin Love, owner Glen Taylor will be a major part of the process on deciding whether to move Butler this season.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043161490285625344?s=21
Lol. This is a desperate attempt to keep some semblance of leverage. They have none. They have to trade Butler. They can't keep him.
They don’t have to. He’s under contract, he has to play for them. They can let him walk when his deal expires rather than trading him for peanuts if they like
Better to have a star and make the playoffs and earning playoff money and experience for the players than to trade Butler for pennies on the dollar and not make the playoffs.
This Minnesota team wasn't good last year when Butler wasn't playing. Without him this year they go into the lottery.
Something tells me with the way Butler and Towns hate each other that lockeroom is going to be impossible to manage. I don't think Minnesota can really stretch this out too long. Something is going to have to give.
This isn't just Butler demanding a trade. Towns has demanded Butler be shipped out also. Towns doesn't want him there and Butler doesn't want to be.
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Story filed to ESPN: Rival executives lobbing calls to Minnesota’s front office on possibility of trading for Jimmy Butler are getting inquires shut down. Minnesota is telling teams that Butler’s an elite player and franchise intends to keep him.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043160715773784064?s=21
Also: As the case with past trades involving Minnesota stars Kevin Garnett and Kevin Love, owner Glen Taylor will be a major part of the process on deciding whether to move Butler this season.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043161490285625344?s=21
Lol. This is a desperate attempt to keep some semblance of leverage. They have none. They have to trade Butler. They can't keep him.
They don’t have to. He’s under contract, he has to play for them. They can let him walk when his deal expires rather than trading him for peanuts if they like
the nba doesn’t work like that. It’s a star player league. Stars can make demands. If a team wants to be on the good side of players and free agents, they allow the trade when a request is made
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Story filed to ESPN: Rival executives lobbing calls to Minnesota’s front office on possibility of trading for Jimmy Butler are getting inquires shut down. Minnesota is telling teams that Butler’s an elite player and franchise intends to keep him.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043160715773784064?s=21
Also: As the case with past trades involving Minnesota stars Kevin Garnett and Kevin Love, owner Glen Taylor will be a major part of the process on deciding whether to move Butler this season.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043161490285625344?s=21
Lol. This is a desperate attempt to keep some semblance of leverage. They have none. They have to trade Butler. They can't keep him.
They don’t have to. He’s under contract, he has to play for them. They can let him walk when his deal expires rather than trading him for peanuts if they like
That's what proud owners would think.
Businessmen know they can't lose 3 early first round picks for nothing. That would make Minnesota a treadmill non-playoff team for the next decade.
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Reporting in here sources out that “there remains a real possibility that (Butler) will not report to training camp next week if a trade has not been consummated.”
https://twitter.com/kcjhoop/status/1043235477334237184?s=21
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I understand Butler’s frustration as he is 29 and the clock is ticking for him to win big as an elite player. If Towns was say 25, and not 22 maybe he would be more open to stay. Towns defense really needs to come around sooner rather than later. It seems like it’s that last hurdle in his game. His offense is fantastic.
I’m not sure Wiggins will ever be more than a 1 dimensional player. I’d take Tatum or Brown over Wiggins without hesitation.
2 young core players that play little D, not the easiest situation for a prime elite 2 way player.
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Story filed to ESPN: As Minnesota’s front office tells inquiring rivals that team has no plans to trade Jimmy Butler, owner Glen Taylor had a different message at NBA’s Board of Governors meetings: Butler is available and owners/GM’s should contact Taylor himself if necessary.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043278308027367425?s=21
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While all the other teams are making their bids for Jimmy Buckets...
Maybe we should sneak in and just steal KAT from the Wolves :P :laugh:
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While all the other teams are making their bids for Jimmy Buckets...
Maybe we should sneak in and just steal KAT from the Wolves :P :laugh:
I doubt there are a lot of suitors right now. How to make his money fit, how to make this bad locker room guy fit and how to fit in a player that will demand a max contract that extends until he is about 34 years old. I don't think he can be the best player on a championship team. Good luck Jimmy but I don't see it.
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Mini is saying they aren't moving him right now, but I wonder if they are waiting for LA to have Caldwell-Pope available to move for contract and bundle him up with Ingram. Ingram might be odd man out since he can't go to the 4 or 2 spot for a bulk of minutes. This also keeps money freed up for an other trade for them to take money in or next season for FA signings. They still wont be great, and kinda kill their future. Kuzma is good, not sure if he's franchise good, and Ball, who knows, maybe Rondo can help him out a bit.
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Mini is saying they aren't moving him right now, but I wonder if they are waiting for LA to have Caldwell-Pope available to move for contract and bundle him up with Ingram. Ingram might be odd man out since he can't go to the 4 or 2 spot for a bulk of minutes. This also keeps money freed up for an other trade for them to take money in or next season for FA signings. They still wont be great, and kinda kill their future. Kuzma is good, not sure if he's franchise good, and Ball, who knows, maybe Rondo can help him out a bit.
Their owner says Butler is available so it doesn't really matter what Thibs is saying. The Lakers didn't offer Ingram for Leonard so why would they do so for Butler?
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Mini is saying they aren't moving him right now, but I wonder if they are waiting for LA to have Caldwell-Pope available to move for contract and bundle him up with Ingram. Ingram might be odd man out since he can't go to the 4 or 2 spot for a bulk of minutes. This also keeps money freed up for an other trade for them to take money in or next season for FA signings. They still wont be great, and kinda kill their future. Kuzma is good, not sure if he's franchise good, and Ball, who knows, maybe Rondo can help him out a bit.
The Lakers aren't gonna move Ingram for a guy they think they can get for free in FA next summer. They didn't want to move him for Leonard, and they definitely won't move him for Butler
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Surprised no-one has posted this yet (it was on the front page of Celtics Blog lol, have we already forgotten about that site?!?). Kyrie sounds quite happy in Boston and sounds as though he wants to be here long-term. It certainly throws a wrench in a lot of the Kyrie/Butler conspiracy theories.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24756416/kyrie-irving-talks-boston-celtics
Irving said he's aware that he's been linked to Jimmy Butler in persistent free-agent rumors regarding a mutual desire to play together in New York, but he said he's had no such discussions with Butler. In fact, he said, the last time he talked to Butler at length was when they were both playing with USA Basketball, and the two engaged in a spitballing session along with Durant and Cousins about what the future held for each of them.
"And that," Irving laughed, "was in 2016."
"Who wouldn't be a part of this?" Irving said, gesturing to Boston's new practice facility. "Who wouldn't want to be a part of Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum and Al Horford and Gordon Hayward? People keep saying, 'Why won't he commit to Boston?'
"Well, there are financial implications involved."
If Irving had signed an extension with Boston this past summer, he would have potentially left more than $80 million on the table than if he waits and re-signs with the Celtics next summer.
More good stuff: he feels healthy and seems really locked in to the idea of winning here:
Last season, Irving gutted through persistent soreness and irritation caused by hardware from a 2015 surgery to repair a broken kneecap. He was forced to shut it down in March, underwent two additional surgeries, then spent much of his offseason methodically fine-tuning that left knee to the point where he believes he is the healthiest and strongest he's been in three years
"I'm moving completely differently," Irving told ESPN on Friday, just days away from the official start of training camp. "I've worked on my strength and have a heightened awareness of what my body needs on a day-to-day basis. I spent all summer trying get my left leg to catch up with my right. And it's there."
"Our pickup games are next level," Irving said. "I mean, next level. You can't believe what we're doing out there. We can't wait to get started."
He claimed to have a confidence in his lower body that simply did not exist during his abbreviated 2017-18 season.
"Now when I go to the rim," Irving explained, "I'm able to maintain my strength and athleticism, so when I get under there I have all sorts of options. No limitations. I can pick my spots. It's a lot better."
Pressed if he would be disappointed if they didn't win a championship, Irving responded, "Can we beat Golden State in a seven-game series? Yes."
What makes him so sure?
"Because of who we have," Irving answered, "and what we're establishing here, not just for this season, but for hopefully for the next few years, something that's pretty special.
"I've played against Golden State in three straight Finals (2015-17) -- two that I was able to participate in -- and seeing them evolve, with the talent they have, and then adding DeMarcus Cousins [this offseason], it's like 'OK, the whole league is on notice.'
"But there's one factor that they're aware of, and I'm aware of, and that's that I've seen them up close. I've played them so many times. We've gone in a seven-game series [when he was in Cleveland], so I know what it takes.
"Now, how do I communicate to our guys that this is the top-tier team, and we have to grow immensely in the next six months to beat them consistently? Not just one game, not just two, but in a seven-game series, because they're so dang great. They're a powerhouse."
"The drive for greatness, the drive to win a championship, that's all I care about," he said. "The rest of it doesn't matter."
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All-Star Jimmy Butler has been granted permission to not participate in Minnesota Timberwolves‘ media day on Monday, league sources tell me and @JonKrawczynski.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1043538659411206145
The Timberwolves have also been made aware that Jimmy Butler will not be available for on-court activities at the outset of training camp, sources tell @TheAthleticMIN
https://twitter.com/JonKrawczynski/status/1043538949380235264
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The TWolves are not going to get full value in a Butler trade since this is his last year in his contract.
What if the TWolves to appease Butler (and sign him to an extension) offered to trade KAT? I know, blasphemy right?
But I’d say they could get better value in a KAT trade than they could in a Butler trade. Let’s say they offered him for Nikola Jokic or Rudy Gobert? Both are comparable in terms of talent and youth (albeit completely different in terms of skill sets at the center position).
Would you rather trade Butler for 60 cents on the dollar or get one of Jokic or Gobert?
While you shorten your window of success by keeping Butler over a 23-yr-old KAT you perhaps keep your team at its current strength and lighten some tensions.
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The TWolves are not going to get full value in a Butler trade since this is his last year in his contract.
What if the TWolves to appease Butler (and sign him to an extension) offered to trade KAT? I know, blasphemy right?
But I’d say they could get better value in a KAT trade than they could in a Butler trade. Let’s say they offered him for Nikola Jokic or Rudy Gobert? Both are comparable in terms of talent and youth (albeit completely different in terms of skill sets at the center position).
Would you rather trade Butler for 60 cents on the dollar or get one of Jokic or Gobert?
While you shorten your window of success by keeping Butler over a 23-yr-old KAT you perhaps keep your team at its current strength and lighten some tensions.
I'd rather trade Butler and I'm not a big Towns fan. Then I'd get rid of Thibs.
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Lauri Markkanen with the low key dig at the Wolves.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2018/09/20/lauri-markkanen-trolls-the-timberwolves-with-a-tbt-tweet/37874385/
I can't imagine being a Wolves fan right now, that can't be very fun.
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Said he not reporting to camp so he got to be traded..its a shame cause T-Wolves had a pretty good team...
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They have to trade him now. Minny should do the same as San Antonio and trade for your best package and NOT necessarily to a team of his choice. I'm sure Thibodeau wants a "now" player like Popovich and not young players. I think it's going to be tough at this late date to move him and get what you want.
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Portland wouldn't be a bad landing spot.... Maybe McCollum and harkless for butler and dieng.
Twolves Teague McCollum Wiggins and towns isn't bad at all
Portland dame and butler nice duo... Not enough tho prly
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Portland wouldn't be a bad landing spot.... Maybe McCollum and harkless for butler and dieng.
Twolves Teague McCollum Wiggins and towns isn't bad at all
Actually that's a pretty bad team that wouldn't make the playoffs. No one on that team plays a lick of D.
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They have to trade him now. Minny should do the same as San Antonio and trade for your best package and NOT necessarily to a team of his choice. I'm sure Thibodeau wants a "now" player like Popovich and not young players. I think it's going to be tough at this late date to move him and get what you want.
I agree with this. Even if Butler has a top 3 team list, any team acquiring him would have his Bird Rights with the ability to give a 5-yr contract and 8% raises. With a player like Butler, who is about to be 30, getting as much guaranteed money as possible has to be in the back of his head. As long as the situation is pretty good, that team may convince him to stay (think Paul George).
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Sources: Minnesota owner Glen Taylor has made it clear to President/Coach Tom Thibodeau and GM Scott Layden that Jimmy Butler's on the trade block and Taylor wants the front office moving to find a deal. Taylor is pushing for a fast resolution.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043676048892854274?s=21
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Lets hope the clippers get him and become a playoff team
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Tobias + Lue for Jimmy.
Immediate value for Thibs, Clips make a Tobias upgrade.
Both teams still probably miss the playoffs.
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Clippers and Knicks will offer anything to get Butler...going to overpay probably
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Clippers and Knicks will offer anything to get Butler...going to overpay probably
I don’t see the Knicks trading for him since they believe they can outright sign him after this season.
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Clippers and Knicks will offer anything to get Butler...going to overpay probably
I don’t see the Knicks trading for him since they believe they can outright sign him after this season.
Does this ever work, though? Sure, the NYK is one of the teams that Butler would like to play for, but if the Clippers or Nets (or any other good enough team that he fits well into) trades for him instead, he can then sign for more years and more money, rather than leaving for what might be a worse situation in NY. If a team is sure they want a certain player, they need to be willing to trade for him in advance...that is unless they think their situation is so dire that the player could leave at the end of the season. And, who knows, that could be the Knicks.
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I'd like to see him play for Detroit. Ppl underrate Griffin these days, IMO with Butler they'd be a top-3 team in the East.
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#Rockets, #Sixers, #Pistons and others have surfaced as suitors of #TWolves’ Jimmy Butler. #NBA
https://twitter.com/amicohoops/status/1043860577372852224?s=21
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Does anyone know why no one really likes butler? And why towns hates him so much?
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It would be fun to see Blake Griffin and Towns play together. Exciting big man duo.
Butler would be a much better fit in Detroit alongside Drummond than Griffin.
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#Rockets, #Sixers, #Pistons and others have surfaced as suitors of #TWolves’ Jimmy Butler. #NBA
https://twitter.com/amicohoops/status/1043860577372852224?s=21
Sixers would be interesting. They have the most attractive pieces to trade, but that would be adding yet another subpar shooter to their lineup. Not sure how well Butler would work not being a primary playmaker, either, as well as questions regarding the locker room chemistry with Embiid’s playful personality and a younger overall team.
Rockets would be interesting, too, though I doubt they have the pieces to get him.
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Seems to have been that way since he went from role player to star. It was reported that the veteran has-been players in Chicago resented him showing up one day with an attitude to match his contract. It was just a bad situation for the franchise, really, since just about severyone else was well on the way to washed up.
I think in Minny, he may have come in the same way, given his buddyship with Thibs, Thibs' rep, and the inconsistency of the younger supertalents on the roster.
Seems like a talented bard worker that would thrive on a team, and the team would be mad good, if he weren't the best player and leader by default. If he were the guy just outside the post game presser, even better. He should lead by example (which he does) and quit trying to talk, in other words.
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I am sure his mother is quite fond of him. ;D
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Looks like Butler will be traded, but to who? Been hearing alot of rumors and be fun to see where everyone think where he going
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I pick New York..i dont think Minny will trade him to a Western team
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I think Philly has to do a deal for him, no? They whiffed on everything this summer and their core has shown it needs more. They have the contracts to match salary, young talent and picks to get it done. I think Covington + Bayless + Saric can get it done.
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i am not sure why three rotation players, at best, would be enough to convince minnesota to trade one of the better players in the entire nba.
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i am not sure why three rotation players, at best, would be enough to convince minnesota to trade one of the better players in the entire nba.
Then let someone make a better offer. Philly didn't offer more for Kawhi Leonard, I don't think they're going to for Butler. I don't think an offer of Frank Ntilikina and Kevin Knox as more intriguing though.
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Cleveland in the mix now but dont know what they can offer
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ESPN Sources: Another team pursuing a Jimmy Butler trade with Minnesota: Cleveland. Cavs owner Dan Gilbert was seen talking privately with Glen Taylor at NBA Board of Governors meeting on Friday. Both owners played a part in negotiating the Love-Wiggins deal.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1043919084038098945
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Cleveland in the mix now but dont know what they can offer
k love? lol
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Does anyone know why no one really likes butler?
There are plenty of players that like Butler, but Butler seems to have a serious disdain for players he views as not working at their craft as hard as he does. It stands to reason a guy like that is going to make it difficult to like him if he doesn't respect you.
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My guess is Miami. Butler's philosophy fits with Riley's culture, Butler is friends with Wade (as far as I know), Miami has some nice young assets (Winslow, Richardson), and they can acquire Gorgui Dieng's contract for Hassan Whiteside, who's currently a malcontent in Miami.
The Heat are short on options since they are capped out. May as well use this time to their advantage with what they have left of Dragic's prime.
Also, I really don't want that unprotected pick Miami owes Philly to pan out well for the Sixers.
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Part of me wants him to go to Philly for the pure drama aspect of it for the Atlantic Division. But I got a wierd feeling Miami ends up with him.
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Anyone else think the Spurs could get in on this Butler action? Butler and Pop seem like a fit.
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Anyone else think the Spurs could get in on this Butler action? Butler and Pop seem like a fit.
Cool idea. although it looks like he's wants to play in Los Angeles New York or Los Angeles
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So far, Pat Riley and Miami have been as aggressive as any team in pursuit of a Jimmy Butler trade with Minnesota, league sources tell ESPN. Ownership still prefers to find a deal by early this week, sources said.
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Does anyone know why no one really likes butler?
There are plenty of players that like Butler, but Butler seems to have a serious disdain for players he views as not working at their craft as hard as he does. It stands to reason a guy like that is going to make it difficult to like him if he doesn't respect you.
A lot of those players that like Butler have never played with him, which is interesting
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I went with Brooklyn because I think they need the juice acquiring a guy like him provides.
Butler, Dieng for Crabbe, Dudley, Dinwiddie
Other players could be included to strengthen the offer, but by taking on Dieng for an expiring and significantly decreasing the Wolves overall salary, I think that is probably about as good as the Wolves are going to do. Instead of Dudley, Carroll or Faried could be added, though they cost more and wouldn't give the Wolves the same level of savings.
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I am just glad he won't be coming here, I think he would have messed up our chemistry.
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Dan Gilbert and Glen Taylor apparently had conversations about Butler at the Owner's meeting. It seems the Cavs want to be in on the discussions and may try to really go for it this year. Cavs also have a number of varying size salaries so plenty of deals could be worked out where the Cavs take on Dieng (and anyone else the Wolves would want to dump).
Something like this makes some sense for both teams
Butler, Dieng for Thompson, Korver, Dekker, Zizic
Wolves save a ton of money and get out of the tax and get some toughness and rebounding next to Towns in Thompson (who is 1 less year than Dieng), a shooter off the bench in Korver, and 2 young players. Cavs add a top level player to go for it for a year and don't lose anyone they can't afford to lose while taking on Dieng's contract.
Now maybe Butler's market is great and the Wolves can do a lot better than that, but that is at least a credible package that serves a number of goals for the Wolves and if they don't want Thompson, the Cavs have Smith, Hill, and Clarkson with large contracts available that can be swapped in.
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I went with Brooklyn because I think they need the juice acquiring a guy like him provides.
Butler, Dieng for Crabbe, Dudley, Dinwiddie
Other players could be included to strengthen the offer, but by taking on Dieng for an expiring and significantly decreasing the Wolves overall salary, I think that is probably about as good as the Wolves are going to do. Instead of Dudley, Carroll or Faried could be added, though they cost more and wouldn't give the Wolves the same level of savings.
I wonder if the Nets would consider throwing in an unprotected 1st rounder (or three)
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Dan Gilbert and Glen Taylor apparently had conversations about Butler at the Owner's meeting. It seems the Cavs want to be in on the discussions and may try to really go for it this year. Cavs also have a number of varying size salaries so plenty of deals could be worked out where the Cavs take on Dieng (and anyone else the Wolves would want to dump).
Something like this makes some sense for both teams
Butler, Dieng for Thompson, Korver, Dekker, Zizic
Wolves save a ton of money and get out of the tax and get some toughness and rebounding next to Towns in Thompson (who is 1 less year than Dieng), a shooter off the bench in Korver, and 2 young players. Cavs add a top level player to go for it for a year and don't lose anyone they can't afford to lose while taking on Dieng's contract.
Now maybe Butler's market is great and the Wolves can do a lot better than that, but that is at least a credible package that serves a number of goals for the Wolves and if they don't want Thompson, the Cavs have Smith, Hill, and Clarkson with large contracts available that can be swapped in.
That's a terrible trade for the Wolves...
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Dan Gilbert and Glen Taylor apparently had conversations about Butler at the Owner's meeting. It seems the Cavs want to be in on the discussions and may try to really go for it this year. Cavs also have a number of varying size salaries so plenty of deals could be worked out where the Cavs take on Dieng (and anyone else the Wolves would want to dump).
Something like this makes some sense for both teams
Butler, Dieng for Thompson, Korver, Dekker, Zizic
Wolves save a ton of money and get out of the tax and get some toughness and rebounding next to Towns in Thompson (who is 1 less year than Dieng), a shooter off the bench in Korver, and 2 young players. Cavs add a top level player to go for it for a year and don't lose anyone they can't afford to lose while taking on Dieng's contract.
Now maybe Butler's market is great and the Wolves can do a lot better than that, but that is at least a credible package that serves a number of goals for the Wolves and if they don't want Thompson, the Cavs have Smith, Hill, and Clarkson with large contracts available that can be swapped in.
That's a terrible trade for the Wolves...
how, just how do people come up with this stuff
wolves will get something nice in return, sure it will be a salary dump, but it will most surely include a top 10 pick from the last three drafts.
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Dan Gilbert and Glen Taylor apparently had conversations about Butler at the Owner's meeting. It seems the Cavs want to be in on the discussions and may try to really go for it this year. Cavs also have a number of varying size salaries so plenty of deals could be worked out where the Cavs take on Dieng (and anyone else the Wolves would want to dump).
Something like this makes some sense for both teams
Butler, Dieng for Thompson, Korver, Dekker, Zizic
Wolves save a ton of money and get out of the tax and get some toughness and rebounding next to Towns in Thompson (who is 1 less year than Dieng), a shooter off the bench in Korver, and 2 young players. Cavs add a top level player to go for it for a year and don't lose anyone they can't afford to lose while taking on Dieng's contract.
Now maybe Butler's market is great and the Wolves can do a lot better than that, but that is at least a credible package that serves a number of goals for the Wolves and if they don't want Thompson, the Cavs have Smith, Hill, and Clarkson with large contracts available that can be swapped in.
That's a terrible trade for the Wolves...
how, just how do people come up with this stuff
wolves will get something nice in return, sure it will be a salary dump, but it will most surely include a top 10 pick from the last three drafts.
Depends on how soon they want the trade, how many teams are interested, and if they get rid of Dieng in the trade. Dieng has a terrible contract (not like Noah or Deng bad, but still bad), if they want to move Dieng, it will take significant value away from Butler to move him. If they just move Butler, then yeah they probably get a fairly recent somewhat high draft pick, if they attach Dieng, I'm not so sure they will get that sort of value as Dieng clearly has negative value.
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Minnesota Timberwolves President/Coach Tom Thibodeau met with All-Star forward Jimmy Butler on Monday and tried to convince him to eventually rejoin the team in the preseason, league sources tell ESPN. Butler is sitting out, awaiting the organization to honor his trade request.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1044423082134384642?s=21
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Minnesota Timberwolves President/Coach Tom Thibodeau met with All-Star forward Jimmy Butler on Monday and tried to convince him to eventually rejoin the team in the preseason, league sources tell ESPN. Butler is sitting out, awaiting the organization to honor his trade request.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1044423082134384642?s=21
Lol in the media day presser Thibs tried to play it off as working back from injury or something, saying he just needs an extra week to get right. I was like "what??"
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Dan Gilbert and Glen Taylor apparently had conversations about Butler at the Owner's meeting. It seems the Cavs want to be in on the discussions and may try to really go for it this year. Cavs also have a number of varying size salaries so plenty of deals could be worked out where the Cavs take on Dieng (and anyone else the Wolves would want to dump).
Something like this makes some sense for both teams
Butler, Dieng for Thompson, Korver, Dekker, Zizic
Wolves save a ton of money and get out of the tax and get some toughness and rebounding next to Towns in Thompson (who is 1 less year than Dieng), a shooter off the bench in Korver, and 2 young players. Cavs add a top level player to go for it for a year and don't lose anyone they can't afford to lose while taking on Dieng's contract.
Now maybe Butler's market is great and the Wolves can do a lot better than that, but that is at least a credible package that serves a number of goals for the Wolves and if they don't want Thompson, the Cavs have Smith, Hill, and Clarkson with large contracts available that can be swapped in.
When you say the Cavs may really try to go for it this year, what is the it? The 5th or 6th seed in the east? Or do you mean they would make additional moves and somehow try to compete with golden state and boston?
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Thibs will be fired sooner rather than later... maybe that's what he is trying to accomplish.. he isn't a playoff team without buttler
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Now I think maybe Butler and Dieng's contract to Washington for Porter and Morris' expiring one year deal. I'm starting to feel the beginning of the season!
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Thibs will be fired sooner rather than later... maybe that's what he is trying to accomplish.. he isn't a playoff team without buttler
Yeah, I think his time in Minny is ending. They could 'demote' him to just coach, like Doc, but he really hasn't proven himself in that role either. Thibs is just too stubborn, unlike Brad who seems to be able to adjust his coaching style to the players he has.
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Dan Gilbert and Glen Taylor apparently had conversations about Butler at the Owner's meeting. It seems the Cavs want to be in on the discussions and may try to really go for it this year. Cavs also have a number of varying size salaries so plenty of deals could be worked out where the Cavs take on Dieng (and anyone else the Wolves would want to dump).
Something like this makes some sense for both teams
Butler, Dieng for Thompson, Korver, Dekker, Zizic
Wolves save a ton of money and get out of the tax and get some toughness and rebounding next to Towns in Thompson (who is 1 less year than Dieng), a shooter off the bench in Korver, and 2 young players. Cavs add a top level player to go for it for a year and don't lose anyone they can't afford to lose while taking on Dieng's contract.
Now maybe Butler's market is great and the Wolves can do a lot better than that, but that is at least a credible package that serves a number of goals for the Wolves and if they don't want Thompson, the Cavs have Smith, Hill, and Clarkson with large contracts available that can be swapped in.
When you say the Cavs may really try to go for it this year, what is the it? The 5th or 6th seed in the east? Or do you mean they would make additional moves and somehow try to compete with golden state and boston?
I would think if they made that team the Cavs would have a real shot at a top 4 seed in the East. In that scenario they would have a pretty decent lineup with a fair amount of depth starting Sexton, Butler, Hood, Love, Dieng with Hill, Clarkson, Nance, Osman, and Smith off the bench (and maybe they start Hill and bring Sexton off the bench in that scenario). That team is a poor match-up with the Celtics, but could certainly beat any of the other Eastern teams in the playoffs.
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Since Bradley can't really be traded from LAC until later in the year, I doubt he is going out for LAC.
But the Bradley-Butler backcourt makes a lot of sense. Butler is a primary ball-handler. Bradley is not. Bradley is a pesk to primary guards. Butler is a better defender against bigger guys. Bradley moves really well off the ball and Butler is a really good creator and distributor.
I also think Dieng could be a starter in a different situation. Imagine if he is finally able to deliver on his defensive promise.
Bradley-Butler-Harris-Luc-Dieng. Harris is an underrated defender against swings. Luc is a really heady defender. That team could be nasty on both sides of the court.
Then you think about Shai's versatility, Beverly's defense, Teletovic's secondary creation, Harrell's energy, Gortat's there-ness, and Williams' scoring.
That team is deep, versatile, feisty, and could push for a top 4 seed in the West.
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Now I think maybe Butler and Dieng's contract to Washington for Porter and Morris' expiring one year deal. I'm starting to feel the beginning of the season!
This trade makes a ton of sense for both teams. Washington gets a real upgrade and maybe gets off the treadmill. Minny gets a "young vet" with upside. I don't see them getting a better return than this.
Tho if I'm Washington I try to keep Morris. They need his toughness and versatility.
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Since Bradley can't really be traded from LAC until later in the year, I doubt he is going out for LAC.
But the Bradley-Butler backcourt makes a lot of sense. Butler is a primary ball-handler. Bradley is not. Bradley is a pesk to primary guards. Butler is a better defender against bigger guys. Bradley moves really well off the ball and Butler is a really good creator and distributor.
I also think Dieng could be a starter in a different situation. Imagine if he is finally able to deliver on his defensive promise.
Bradley-Butler-Harris-Luc-Dieng. Harris is an underrated defender against swings. Luc is a really heady defender. That team could be nasty on both sides of the court.
Then you think about Shai's versatility, Beverly's defense, Teletovic's secondary creation, Harrell's energy, Gortat's there-ness, and Williams' scoring.
That team is deep, versatile, feisty, and could push for a top 4 seed in the West.
Think LAC is his best trade destination, but I think Jerome Robinson and Beverly is going to be sent over, along with some picks headed their way if that is the case.
They need some defensive players in return; if their plan is to make the playoffs again.
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Now I think maybe Butler and Dieng's contract to Washington for Porter and Morris' expiring one year deal. I'm starting to feel the beginning of the season!
This trade makes a ton of sense for both teams. Washington gets a real upgrade and maybe gets off the treadmill. Minny gets a "young vet" with upside. I don't see them getting a better return than this.
Tho if I'm Washington I try to keep Morris. They need his toughness and versatility.
If Butler didn't like the laziness and work ethic at Timberwolves, he's going to definitely have a field day there lol.
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league sources say Jimmy Butler sought out Minnesota owner Glen Taylor in recent days for reassurances trade talks were proceeding in good faith.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1044599418266079233
Thibs told Taj Gibson they’ve been through a lot worse in Chicago than this Jimmy Butler saga. Taj’s reaction: Really?
https://twitter.com/JonKrawczynski/status/1044594979312738304
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league sources say Jimmy Butler sought out Minnesota owner Glen Taylor in recent days for reassurances trade talks were proceeding in good faith.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1044599418266079233
Thibs told Taj Gibson they’ve been through a lot worse in Chicago than this Jimmy Butler saga. Taj’s reaction: Really?
https://twitter.com/JonKrawczynski/status/1044594979312738304
I don't get Thibs... Actually I don't get the Wolves... In what universe, was giving him GM+ head coaching duties make any coherent sense given his track record?
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Now I think maybe Butler and Dieng's contract to Washington for Porter and Morris' expiring one year deal. I'm starting to feel the beginning of the season!
This trade makes a ton of sense for both teams. Washington gets a real upgrade and maybe gets off the treadmill. Minny gets a "young vet" with upside. I don't see them getting a better return than this.
Tho if I'm Washington I try to keep Morris. They need his toughness and versatility.
If Butler didn't like the laziness and work ethic at Timberwolves, he's going to definitely have a field day there lol.
Yeah, Washington would be a gamble but Washington has to do something to try and improve. Has Butler ever played with team mates as good as Wall and Beal? I guess Rose pre-injury...
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Now I think maybe Butler and Dieng's contract to Washington for Porter and Morris' expiring one year deal. I'm starting to feel the beginning of the season!
This trade makes a ton of sense for both teams. Washington gets a real upgrade and maybe gets off the treadmill. Minny gets a "young vet" with upside. I don't see them getting a better return than this.
Tho if I'm Washington I try to keep Morris. They need his toughness and versatility.
Morris is important to that Washington team but it might be the cost to get Butler. Morris would be a good tough front court mate next to KAT.
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Now I think maybe Butler and Dieng's contract to Washington for Porter and Morris' expiring one year deal. I'm starting to feel the beginning of the season!
This trade makes a ton of sense for both teams. Washington gets a real upgrade and maybe gets off the treadmill. Minny gets a "young vet" with upside. I don't see them getting a better return than this.
Tho if I'm Washington I try to keep Morris. They need his toughness and versatility.
Morris is important to that Washington team but it might be the cost to get Butler. Morris would be a good tough front court mate next to KAT.
Yeah, it would shore Minny up nicely.
And Washington could trot out a lineup with Wall, Beal, Butler, and Duh-wight. Actually would be pretty troublesome.
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league sources say Jimmy Butler sought out Minnesota owner Glen Taylor in recent days for reassurances trade talks were proceeding in good faith.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1044599418266079233
Thibs told Taj Gibson they’ve been through a lot worse in Chicago than this Jimmy Butler saga. Taj’s reaction: Really?
https://twitter.com/JonKrawczynski/status/1044594979312738304
I don't get Thibs... Actually I don't get the Wolves... In what universe, was giving him GM+ head coaching duties make any coherent sense given his track record?
I don't understand why any team ever hires anyone to be both head coach and GM. It almost never works out.
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calling it now: Butler ends up in Milwaukee by the end of the week with the trade being something like - Jimmy Butler & Gorgui Dieng for Khris Middleton, Tony Snell & John Henson. Gets Minny a bit younger while keeping them competitive, which is ultimately Thibodeu's goal. It's a risky move for Milwaukee, since Butler is a free agent at the end of the year, but also a move that shows their franchise star that they are serious about contending for a title.
MIL would look something like...
PG - Eric Bledsoe , Matthew Dellavedova
SG - Jimmy Butler , Malcolm Brogdon , Donte Divicenzo
SF - Giannis Antetokounmpo , Shabazz Muhammed
PF - Thon Maker , Ersan Ilyasova
C - Brook Lopez , Gorgui Dieng , Tyler Zeller
That, in my opinion, is a better team than Philly or Torontos got.
Butler can be the DWade to Giannis's LeBron. Then you add in guards who can defend and bigs who can spread the floor and you got a lethal squad. And now they actually have a competent head coach in Budenholzer who can make it all work.
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calling it now: Butler ends up in Milwaukee by the end of the week with the trade being something like - Jimmy Butler & Gorgui Dieng for Khris Middleton, Tony Snell & John Henson. Gets Minny a bit younger while keeping them competitive, which is ultimately Thibodeu's goal. It's a risky move for Milwaukee, since Butler is a free agent at the end of the year, but also a move that shows their franchise star that they are serious about contending for a title.
MIL would look something like...
PG - Eric Bledsoe , Matthew Dellavedova
SG - Jimmy Butler , Malcolm Brogdon , Donte Divicenzo
SF - Giannis Antetokounmpo , Shabazz Muhammed
PF - Thon Maker , Ersan Ilyasova
C - Brook Lopez , Gorgui Dieng , Tyler Zeller
That, in my opinion, is a better team than Philly or Torontos got.
Butler can be the DWade to Giannis's LeBron. Then you add in guards who can defend and bigs who can spread the floor and you got a lethal squad. And now they actually have a competent head coach in Budenholzer who can make it all work.
I’d be really interested in seeing this team go. Two best players are relatively weak shooters, who live from 16 feet inwards. Both think of themselves as alphas.
I still see that team as worse than Toronto and perhaps Philly if they get their act together. Not frightened, as I think Middleton fits next to Giannis better
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calling it now: Butler ends up in Milwaukee by the end of the week with the trade being something like - Jimmy Butler & Gorgui Dieng for Khris Middleton, Tony Snell & John Henson. Gets Minny a bit younger while keeping them competitive, which is ultimately Thibodeu's goal. It's a risky move for Milwaukee, since Butler is a free agent at the end of the year, but also a move that shows their franchise star that they are serious about contending for a title.
MIL would look something like...
PG - Eric Bledsoe , Matthew Dellavedova
SG - Jimmy Butler , Malcolm Brogdon , Donte Divicenzo
SF - Giannis Antetokounmpo , Shabazz Muhammed
PF - Thon Maker , Ersan Ilyasova
C - Brook Lopez , Gorgui Dieng , Tyler Zeller
That, in my opinion, is a better team than Philly or Torontos got.
Butler can be the DWade to Giannis's LeBron. Then you add in guards who can defend and bigs who can spread the floor and you got a lethal squad. And now they actually have a competent head coach in Budenholzer who can make it all work.
I prefer Middleton. Younger, cheaper, a better shooter and a better leader.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Khris+Middleton&player_id1_select=Khris+Middleton&y1=2018&player_id1=middlkh01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jimmy+Butler&player_id2_select=Jimmy+Butler&y2=2018&player_id2=butleji01&idx=players
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calling it now: Butler ends up in Milwaukee by the end of the week with the trade being something like - Jimmy Butler & Gorgui Dieng for Khris Middleton, Tony Snell & John Henson. Gets Minny a bit younger while keeping them competitive, which is ultimately Thibodeu's goal. It's a risky move for Milwaukee, since Butler is a free agent at the end of the year, but also a move that shows their franchise star that they are serious about contending for a title.
MIL would look something like...
PG - Eric Bledsoe , Matthew Dellavedova
SG - Jimmy Butler , Malcolm Brogdon , Donte Divicenzo
SF - Giannis Antetokounmpo , Shabazz Muhammed
PF - Thon Maker , Ersan Ilyasova
C - Brook Lopez , Gorgui Dieng , Tyler Zeller
That, in my opinion, is a better team than Philly or Torontos got.
Butler can be the DWade to Giannis's LeBron. Then you add in guards who can defend and bigs who can spread the floor and you got a lethal squad. And now they actually have a competent head coach in Budenholzer who can make it all work.
I prefer Middleton. Younger, cheaper, a better shooter and a better leader.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Khris+Middleton&player_id1_select=Khris+Middleton&y1=2018&player_id1=middlkh01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jimmy+Butler&player_id2_select=Jimmy+Butler&y2=2018&player_id2=butleji01&idx=players
They also really could use Snell's shooting. They were a different team with him out there letting Giannis work more inside.
Frankly I don't see anyway they get someone like Middleton for Butler with Dieng attached. Dieng's contract is awful (and I get Snell and Henson don't exactly have great contracts, but they are better contracts than Dieng's and they are both better players also).
Now maybe I'm totally misreading this market and Butler gets all sorts of interest, but it would surprise me if they get anything good if they attach Dieng. Now if they just move Butler they might get something decent, but certainly no where near what they reportedly want. I actually think they might be better off moving him later in the season after more contracts can be moved, teams start to get injuries, or start to think they might have a shot at doing some damage where they might pay a bit more.
-
calling it now: Butler ends up in Milwaukee by the end of the week with the trade being something like - Jimmy Butler & Gorgui Dieng for Khris Middleton, Tony Snell & John Henson. Gets Minny a bit younger while keeping them competitive, which is ultimately Thibodeu's goal. It's a risky move for Milwaukee, since Butler is a free agent at the end of the year, but also a move that shows their franchise star that they are serious about contending for a title.
MIL would look something like...
PG - Eric Bledsoe , Matthew Dellavedova
SG - Jimmy Butler , Malcolm Brogdon , Donte Divicenzo
SF - Giannis Antetokounmpo , Shabazz Muhammed
PF - Thon Maker , Ersan Ilyasova
C - Brook Lopez , Gorgui Dieng , Tyler Zeller
That, in my opinion, is a better team than Philly or Torontos got.
Butler can be the DWade to Giannis's LeBron. Then you add in guards who can defend and bigs who can spread the floor and you got a lethal squad. And now they actually have a competent head coach in Budenholzer who can make it all work.
This is good trade. I think I had Delly and Khris Middleton for Butler and Dieng on some trade board. My trade may be too favorable to the Bucks. I also like Snell better for the Bucks than Delly.
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I actually think they might be better off moving him later in the season after more contracts can be moved, teams start to get injuries, or start to think they might have a shot at doing some damage where they might pay a bit more.
I was wondering the same thing. After January 15, all of the free agents signed this off-season can be moved. That would at least increase the number of teams that could make an offer.
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I actually think they might be better off moving him later in the season after more contracts can be moved, teams start to get injuries, or start to think they might have a shot at doing some damage where they might pay a bit more.
I was wondering the same thing. After January 15, all of the free agents signed this off-season can be moved. That would at least increase the number of teams that could make an offer.
But wouldn't you be worried about Butler acting as a team cancer on the younger players?
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Jimmy Butler and his agent Bernie Lee have informed Wolves ownership that Miami is Butler's preferred trade destination, league sources say
https://twitter.com/thesteinline/status/1044945534543437825?s=21
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Jimmy Butler and his agent Bernie Lee have informed Wolves ownership that Miami is Butler's preferred trade destination, league sources say
https://twitter.com/thesteinline/status/1044945534543437825?s=21
Is that Marc Stein or a fake account?
The Heat make a lot of sense for Butler and as a trade partner for the Wolves.
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Miami...soon. And by the way, this shoots the hell out of all the New York bullEdited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. with Kyrie !!!
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Miami...soon. And by the way, this shoots the hell out of all the New York bull**** with Kyrie !!!
first thing that came to my mind
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i wouldnt trade for him if i was Miami unlessvhe signs long term..dont be like Toronto with Leonard..he going to bolt to LA and toronto will lose Leonard and Derozan
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Does anyone know why no one really likes butler? And why towns hates him so much?
Off of the top of my head, here's why I think Butler may not be that likeable a guy... (For the record I was very pro Butler in the beginning. He worked hard to become an All Star and an accomplished two-way player... But Jim got carried away, bought into himself, and beefed with the Bulls. Now he seems like a celebrity that plays basketball a la Chamberlain. As far as Wiggins and KAT, Butler might be right. Those two might be cats on an island of dogs).
1. 2013, Butler posts a picture wearing a shirt that isn't awful although I don't care to post it. Devil's advocate: he's young, whatever.
https://www.complex.com/sports/2013/07/jimmy-butler-apologizes-offensive-t-shirt
2. 2015, The Bulls post this video on their Youtube where he sings Taylor Swift. First time I was like, this dude kinda seems less cool than he purports. Devil's advocate: I've had weirder teammates that were cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vEC188Mqcw
3. 2016, Bill Simmons podcast. This is where I was like, ehh I dunno about this guy. Amongst other weird attituded comments, JB alludes to some sort of odd tension (pre trade) with D. Wade that made Simmons use the "on your corner" analogy.
https://twitter.com/ringer/status/743477041467527169
4. 2016, "I take myself way too serious" Mountain Dew ad. Note the anchorman saying "well we all know he's friends with Mark Wahlberg." Maybe this appeals to certain people. I doubt Bill Russell is one of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb2j088jIQI
5. 2017, Marcus Smart "isn't about that life" comments that made Smart laugh. This seemed like the first time someone was like, "yeah I don't really think Butler's all that tough."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QMZd8_OEJ0
6. 2018, he writes "WELL [dang]" on a picture of Wade's wife in a bikini, then apologizes and says he's still coming to their bbq. Good one, Jim. Whether or not that's in jest it makes me think Butler is, well, sort of a richard.... Over the line, Smokey.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/dwyane-wade-called-out-jimmy-butler-for-a-comment-on-gabrielle-unions-instagram/
I don't care what Butler does as long as he's not a Celtic. Lots of people and athletes do similar things. You can compare a lot of the stuff I mentioned to Kyrie and I'd be forced to agree with some of it. In the same way only one knucklehead can be on a team, I think their can only be one Hollywoodish person per team. Plus like, Butler dribbles too much.
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Jimmy Butler and his agent Bernie Lee have informed Wolves ownership that Miami is Butler's preferred trade destination, league sources say
https://twitter.com/thesteinline/status/1044945534543437825?s=21
Is that Marc Stein or a fake account?
The Heat make a lot of sense for Butler and as a trade partner for the Wolves.
Yeah, I like Butler in Miami. They’d be a really dangerous lower seed playoff team that could cause problems for someone in the first round. They’d be a really athletic, scrappy, and defensively annoying team.
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All indications point toward @JimmyButler being traded to the @Heat in the very near future. Offers from other #NBA teams changing as a result. Could be four-team deal by end of the day.
https://twitter.com/sheridanhoops/status/1044981279253573637?s=21
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Wonder if Whiteside is a goner
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Wonder if Whiteside is a goner
What would Butler think of Whiteside if he doesn't like KAT's work ethic?
I'm sure Thibs would just love Whiteside's split-second-too-late rotations.
If Butler goes to Miami, I could see Miami waiving Whiteside and moving forward with Olynyk-Bam-Dragic-Johnson-Waiters-Dieng. I'm guessing Winslow, Richardson, and Johnson would be going out.
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Sources: Miami has been the most engaged team with Minnesota on a Jimmy Butler trade. So far, no traction with Clippers and Nets. Houston's tried to be creative in its pursuit. It'll be a challenge -- although not impossible -- to get any Butler deal done without a third team.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1045062983280447488
Phoenix's pursuit of a starting point guard could factor into the Jimmy Butler trade discussions as a potential third-team partner, league sources tell ESPN. If Minnesota trades for Goran Dragic in a Miami/Butler scenario, that could make Wolves PG Jeff Teague available for Suns.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1045000493351796741
Sources: Phoenix did check w/ Minnesota on cost of getting involved on a Jimmy Butler trade, but asking price was far too steep for Suns. So far, there's been no communication on Teague or Dragic in a 3-way, but that could always change if Miami-Minnesota go deeper into talks.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1045076673786523650
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I'm guessing maybe this is part of it. Jalen Rose mentioned this "rumor."
https://bossip.com/1669345/spicyball-jimmy-butler-wants-to-be-traded-from-timberwolves-rumor-swirl-about-him-43081/
Jalen Rose mentioned this after questioning Butler/Wade rapport.
Basically, the Timberworlves wished Butler happy birthday on Instagram, someone wrote "why don't you celebrate some more with KATs girl, KAT dropped said girl, and cryptically acknowledged the situation. Unsuprisingly, KAT didn't defend his position and is having the Wolves do it for him.
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Wolves apparently want to not only make up for what they traded away but also get salary relief. That will never happen.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24811508/timberwolves-asking-price-holding-jimmy-butler-trade
The Minnesota Timberwolves' asking price to trade All-Star forward Jimmy Butler remains quality veterans, top prospects, future assets and salary-cap relief, which is presently too steep of a package for interested teams, league sources told ESPN.
The counteroffer Minny made to Miami was a non-starter for the Heat, who would've been willing to absorb Dieng in the right trade.
It looks more and more like Thibs isn't going to be around as he is basically directly disobeying his boss.
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ESPN Reporting w/ Zach Lowe: Minnesota’s asking price for Jimmy Butler remains too steep for teams. Minny seeks quality vets/top prospects/future assets/cap relief. Too high a price for interested teams, including Miami. Sources are skeptical of Thibodeau’s desire to make deal.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1045302851663278080?s=21
All the noise about Jimmy Butler yesterday was about Miami, but it’s clear Minnesota’s price tag remains extremely high. To highlight one rumored team, I’m told Philly is currently completely out of the JB situation and has never had any traction after preliminary discussions.
https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/1045327190349377536?s=21
The Kings remain interested in serving as a third team, with focus on landing a 2019 first rounder. But as of late last night, no scenarios were even remotely firm. Prospect of bad contracts coming their way is in play, but they’ll be cautious about impacting future flexibility.
https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/1045328636759367680?s=21
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The Minnesota Timberwolves reportedly asked the Philadelphia 76ers for Ben Simmons in a trade for Jimmy Butler. 76ers rejected the offer, per @KevinOConnorNBA
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1045425081047027712
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The Minnesota Timberwolves reportedly asked the Philadelphia 76ers for Ben Simmons in a trade for Jimmy Butler. 76ers rejected the offer, per @KevinOConnorNBA
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1045425081047027712
LOL
Of course Philly rejected the offer. Minnesota's ambition in these negotiations is too cute.
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The Minnesota Timberwolves reportedly asked the Philadelphia 76ers for Ben Simmons in a trade for Jimmy Butler. 76ers rejected the offer, per @KevinOConnorNBA
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1045425081047027712
I like the ambition!
This is hilarious
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The Minnesota Timberwolves reportedly asked the Philadelphia 76ers for Ben Simmons in a trade for Jimmy Butler. 76ers rejected the offer, per @KevinOConnorNBA
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1045425081047027712
LOL
Of course Philly rejected the offer. Minnesota's ambition in these negotiations is too cute.
The Spurs wanted Simmons or Embiid for Leonard. Nothing wrong with asking for too much initially. The price for Butler will obviously need to come down to get a trade done with any team.
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Minnesota is going to try to recoup what they gave up for Butler. As I have said previously, they aren't going to get anything even close to Dunn, Lavine and Markennan.
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all these other teams are smoke screens.
i believe he will be traded to the knicks for Porzingis and it will be completed after the all star break.
once this happens we can all be on Kyrie-watch.
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all these other teams are smoke screens.
i believe he will be traded to the knicks for Porzingis and it will be completed after the all star break.
once this happens we can all be on Kyrie-watch.
That would be very dumb for NYK to do. Porzingis is seemingly off the table, and for good reason. No way do they trade him midway through rehab.
Also, after what Kyrie said about a) not talking to Butler properly since 2016 & b) wanting to see #11 in the rafters, I’m pretty confident in his intentions
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all these other teams are smoke screens.
i believe he will be traded to the knicks for Porzingis and it will be completed after the all star break.
once this happens we can all be on Kyrie-watch.
That would be very dumb for NYK to do. Porzingis is seemingly off the table, and for good reason. No way do they trade him midway through rehab.
Also, after what Kyrie said about a) not talking to Butler properly since 2016 & b) wanting to see #11 in the rafters, I’m pretty confident in his intentions
Yeah, I get there are some posters that hate Kyrie and will never accept him, but continuing to perpetuate this idea that Kyrie is leaving this team is rather ridiculous at this point. He said he hasn't talked to Butler in two years. He said he loves this team and their future. He said he wants his number in the rafters of the Garden.
Sorry guys, he is getting a 5 year max on July 1, 2019. Kyrie is here for the long haul.
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all these other teams are smoke screens.
i believe he will be traded to the knicks for Porzingis and it will be completed after the all star break.
once this happens we can all be on Kyrie-watch.
lol, not
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Minnesota is going to try to recoup what they gave up for Butler. As I have said previously, they aren't going to get anything even close to Dunn, Lavine and Markennan.
Maybe I am alone in this but I believe lavine is a net negative with his contract (and they knew he was due this) and Dunn may end up a high end backup pg (he is 25 or 26 already). I think they could get something as good as markennan and a backup
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Minnesota is going to try to recoup what they gave up for Butler. As I have said previously, they aren't going to get anything even close to Dunn, Lavine and Markennan.
Maybe I am alone in this but I believe lavine is a net negative with his contract (and they knew he was due this) and Dunn may end up a high end backup pg (he is 25 or 26 already). I think they could get something as good as markennan and a backup
I disagree. Kris Dunn most certainly proved himself as a starting caliber PG, improving his shooting from every level, improving as a playmaker and rebounder, and is one of the more elite guard defenders in the league.
Lavine is too big a health risk for me, but his talent is definitely there, and at the time he had significant value
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Now that Rondo's been named the starter, what do people think about a deal centered around Jimmy Butler for Lonzo Ball?
Lonzo fits the age curve of Towns/Wiggins better than Butler. He could run a more open and flowing system for Towns/Wiggins. Lakers meanwhile choose to sign Rondo for his last couple years of productivity.
Rondo is the king at running a fair distribution for stars, from our Big 3 to Davis, Boogie, Holiday. Once Cousins went down Holiday went off and many of those buckets came from Rondo's steady hand and sharp decision making.
Rondo had issues with Butler in Chicago but if they could bury the hatchet and add AD the following year, then that team has all era potential.
Rondo
Butler
LeBron
Ingram/Kuzma/Hart
AD
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Now that Rondo's been named the starter, what do people think about a deal centered around Jimmy Butler for Lonzo Ball?
Lonzo fits the age curve of Towns/Wiggins better than Butler. He could run a more open and flowing system for Towns/Wiggins. Lakers meanwhile choose to sign Rondo for his last couple years of productivity.
Rondo is the king at running a fair distribution for stars, from our Big 3 to Davis, Boogie, Holiday. Once Cousins went down Holiday went off and many of those buckets came from Rondo's steady hand and sharp decision making.
Rondo had issues with Butler in Chicago but if they could bury the hatchet and add AD the following year, then that team has all era potential.
Rondo
Butler
LeBron
Ingram/Kuzma/Hart
AD
They have the cap space to add AD to a team with Butler and LeBron how? Because if they lose Lonzo, there's no way they have the pieces to trade for him.
And lol at Rondo 'burying the hatchet' with a guy so seemingly unlikable
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Now that Rondo's been named the starter, what do people think about a deal centered around Jimmy Butler for Lonzo Ball?
Lonzo fits the age curve of Towns/Wiggins better than Butler. He could run a more open and flowing system for Towns/Wiggins. Lakers meanwhile choose to sign Rondo for his last couple years of productivity.
Rondo is the king at running a fair distribution for stars, from our Big 3 to Davis, Boogie, Holiday. Once Cousins went down Holiday went off and many of those buckets came from Rondo's steady hand and sharp decision making.
Rondo had issues with Butler in Chicago but if they could bury the hatchet and add AD the following year, then that team has all era potential.
Rondo
Butler
LeBron
Ingram/Kuzma/Hart
AD
They have the cap space to add AD to a team with Butler and LeBron how? Because if they lose Lonzo, there's no way they have the pieces to trade for him.
And lol at Rondo 'burying the hatchet' with a guy so seemingly unlikable
Lonzo isn't cleared for 5-5 contact, that is the reason for Rondo starting IMO.
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LeBron be 35..thats old in NBA..those steroids cant help him forever..his body will startbbreaking down
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LeBron be 35..thats old in NBA..those steroids cant help him forever..his body will startbbreaking down
I admit that LeBron isn't my favourite NBA player. (Understatement of the year that is nearing it's end)
But I stopped treating him as a normal athlete.
He is one unbelievable and unprecedented physical specimen. He works on his body each day, he won the gene pool, he has the money to invest in it, he has the mindset...
Anything below him welcoming his son to the NBA while he is still an All star level of player would fail my expectations.
40k-10k-10k club.
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Minnesota is going to try to recoup what they gave up for Butler. As I have said previously, they aren't going to get anything even close to Dunn, Lavine and Markennan.
Maybe I am alone in this but I believe lavine is a net negative with his contract (and they knew he was due this) and Dunn may end up a high end backup pg (he is 25 or 26 already). I think they could get something as good as markennan and a backup
I disagree. Kris Dunn most certainly proved himself as a starting caliber PG, improving his shooting from every level, improving as a playmaker and rebounder, and is one of the more elite guard defenders in the league.
Lavine is too big a health risk for me, but his talent is definitely there, and at the time he had significant value
Since it is a slow news day, lets look at where we think Dunn would Rank as a starting quality NBA point guard. I would say he is clearly a tier below
Lillard
Wall
Curry
Irving
Harding
Paul
Kemba
Conley
Dragic
Westbrook
Simmons
Lowry
Holiday
Than you have a tier below that, that he may be even with, but I would say there is definitely a chance he doesn't end up being as good as
Bledsoe
Teague
Rondo
Rubio
Finally you have the other prospects, do you prefer him over?
Fox
Dennis Smith Jr
Murray (Spurs)
Jamal Murray
Tray Young
I think if he is a starter he is going to be one of the worst starting point guards in the league.
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Now that Rondo's been named the starter, what do people think about a deal centered around Jimmy Butler for Lonzo Ball?
Lonzo fits the age curve of Towns/Wiggins better than Butler. He could run a more open and flowing system for Towns/Wiggins. Lakers meanwhile choose to sign Rondo for his last couple years of productivity.
Rondo is the king at running a fair distribution for stars, from our Big 3 to Davis, Boogie, Holiday. Once Cousins went down Holiday went off and many of those buckets came from Rondo's steady hand and sharp decision making.
Rondo had issues with Butler in Chicago but if they could bury the hatchet and add AD the following year, then that team has all era potential.
Rondo
Butler
LeBron
Ingram/Kuzma/Hart
AD
The Lakers don't have the contracts to match unless they send Lonzo, Igram, Kuzma, Bonga and Mykhailiuk.
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Minnesota is going to try to recoup what they gave up for Butler. As I have said previously, they aren't going to get anything even close to Dunn, Lavine and Markennan.
Maybe I am alone in this but I believe lavine is a net negative with his contract (and they knew he was due this) and Dunn may end up a high end backup pg (he is 25 or 26 already). I think they could get something as good as markennan and a backup
I disagree. Kris Dunn most certainly proved himself as a starting caliber PG, improving his shooting from every level, improving as a playmaker and rebounder, and is one of the more elite guard defenders in the league.
Lavine is too big a health risk for me, but his talent is definitely there, and at the time he had significant value
Since it is a slow news day, lets look at where we think Dunn would Rank as a starting quality NBA point guard. I would say he is clearly a tier below
Lillard
Wall
Curry
Irving
Harding
Paul
Kemba
Conley
Dragic
Westbrook
Simmons
Lowry
Holiday
Than you have a tier below that, that he may be even with, but I would say there is definitely a chance he doesn't end up being as good as
Bledsoe
Teague
Rondo
Rubio
Finally you have the other prospects, do you prefer him over?
Fox
Dennis Smith Jr
Murray (Spurs)
Jamal Murray
Tray Young
I think if he is a starter he is going to be one of the worst starting point guards in the league.
You could've included some bench point guards that are better including our own Smart and Roizer....
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Butler to Houston is a scary thought. He would be perfect for that team.
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Butler to Houston is a scary thought. He would be perfect for that team.
is that being reported?
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Butler to Houston is a scary thought. He would be perfect for that team.
is that being reported?
Just that Houston is making offers but nothing concrete...
Stuff like this:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-rockets-still-making-push-115540889.html
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I thought this Butler trade would be done by now. Tibbs is really dragging his feet.
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Hm perhaps Jimmy Butler could be the next target for Philadelphia 76ers
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Hm perhaps Jimmy Butler could be the next target for Philadelphia 76ers
It would make sense, but reportedly Philly isn't interested in trading for him.
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Hm perhaps Jimmy Butler could be the next target for Philadelphia 76ers
It would make sense, but reportedly Philly isn't interested in trading for him.
Not when the asking price was Simmons.
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Some interesting notes on the starting lineup sheet: Derrick Rose starting for T’Wolves. Also, check out the reason given for Jimmy Butler’s absence. Sure.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoTOgaNUYAA5CJI.jpg)
https://twitter.com/NickFriedell/status/1046188074831499264
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Butler for Middleton and Delly, Maker?
https://fadeawayworld.net/2018/09/29/nba-trade-rumors-bucks-preparing-an-offer-for-jimmy-butler/
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Butler for Middleton and Delly, Maker?
https://fadeawayworld.net/2018/09/29/nba-trade-rumors-bucks-preparing-an-offer-for-jimmy-butler/
Butler is better than Middleton, but that would be a terrible trade for Milwaukee, as they need Middleton's shooting much more than they need what Butler brings. Remember how much of a matchup problem Middleton was for us? That starting five would not have much shooting at all.
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Butler for Middleton and Delly, Maker?
https://fadeawayworld.net/2018/09/29/nba-trade-rumors-bucks-preparing-an-offer-for-jimmy-butler/
Butler is better than Middleton, but that would be a terrible trade for Milwaukee, as they need Middleton's shooting much more than they need what Butler brings. Remember how much of a matchup problem Middleton was for us? That starting five would not have much shooting at all.
Butler is much better and he is a lock down defender plus the Bucks shed some useless salary in Delly. Butler is top 10 or 15 in the NBA and Middleton is maybe 30-35 ranked player? The Bucks need to bring in more talent if only to make sure it's not Giannis asking for a trade next.
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Butler for Middleton and Delly, Maker?
https://fadeawayworld.net/2018/09/29/nba-trade-rumors-bucks-preparing-an-offer-for-jimmy-butler/
Butler is better than Middleton, but that would be a terrible trade for Milwaukee, as they need Middleton's shooting much more than they need what Butler brings. Remember how much of a matchup problem Middleton was for us? That starting five would not have much shooting at all.
Butler is much better and he is a lock down defender plus the Bucks shed some useless salary in Delly. Butler is top 10 or 15 in the NBA and Middleton is maybe 30-35 ranked player? The Bucks need to bring in more talent if only to make sure it's not Giannis asking for a trade next.
Sure, Butler is better than Middleton. But he's older, and not exactly a great fit with Giannis when you consider neither is a great shooter. I don't want my two highest paid, best offensive players, to be non-threats from three. The spacing just isn't going to be ideal and makes it so much more difficult to build a roster.
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Butler for Middleton and Delly, Maker?
https://fadeawayworld.net/2018/09/29/nba-trade-rumors-bucks-preparing-an-offer-for-jimmy-butler/
Butler is better than Middleton, but that would be a terrible trade for Milwaukee, as they need Middleton's shooting much more than they need what Butler brings. Remember how much of a matchup problem Middleton was for us? That starting five would not have much shooting at all.
Butler is much better and he is a lock down defender plus the Bucks shed some useless salary in Delly. Butler is top 10 or 15 in the NBA and Middleton is maybe 30-35 ranked player? The Bucks need to bring in more talent if only to make sure it's not Giannis asking for a trade next.
Sure, Butler is better than Middleton. But he's older, and not exactly a great fit with Giannis when you consider neither is a great shooter. I don't want my two highest paid, best offensive players, to be non-threats from three. The spacing just isn't going to be ideal and makes it so much more difficult to build a roster.
Butler shot 35% from 3 last year and Middleton shot 35% from 3 last year. Butler is 2 years older than Middleton but Middleton also has a player option next year. I think it's an upgrade for the Bucks but I can see how fit might be an issue. Who's going to be top dog etc.... I do think Middleton would be a good fit on The Wolves.... I hope this is worked out soon one way or another...
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Butler for Middleton and Delly, Maker?
https://fadeawayworld.net/2018/09/29/nba-trade-rumors-bucks-preparing-an-offer-for-jimmy-butler/
Butler is better than Middleton, but that would be a terrible trade for Milwaukee, as they need Middleton's shooting much more than they need what Butler brings. Remember how much of a matchup problem Middleton was for us? That starting five would not have much shooting at all.
Butler is much better and he is a lock down defender plus the Bucks shed some useless salary in Delly. Butler is top 10 or 15 in the NBA and Middleton is maybe 30-35 ranked player? The Bucks need to bring in more talent if only to make sure it's not Giannis asking for a trade next.
Sure, Butler is better than Middleton. But he's older, and not exactly a great fit with Giannis when you consider neither is a great shooter. I don't want my two highest paid, best offensive players, to be non-threats from three. The spacing just isn't going to be ideal and makes it so much more difficult to build a roster.
Butler shot 35% from 3 last year and Middleton shot 35% from 3 last year. Butler is 2 years older than Middleton but Middleton also has a player option next year. I think it's an upgrade for the Bucks but I can see how fit might be an issue. Who's going to be top dog etc.... I do think Middleton would be a good fit on The Wolves.... I hope this is worked out soon one way or another...
Similar percentages, but you can hardly compare Middleton's 407 3PA to Jimmy Butler's 200. Butler has never attempted over 248 3's in a season. Plus, that was Middleton's worst 3P% since his rookie season, and was well below his career average of .391%, compared to Butler's career mark of .339%.
Additionally, I doubt they'd give up on Maker so early, and Delly is very important to their depth, despite potential injury concerns
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Miami has reportedly made its final offer. What that is, has not been reported.
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Miami has reportedly made its final offer. What that is, has not been reported.
Be interesting to see what they offer..and if i was miami i would see if butler would sign with them before trading for him
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The Bucks won't trade Middleton for Butler...
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-timberwolves-offered-jimmy-butler-181539886.html
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No Butler trade yet? Surprising....
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I just read a rumor of Covington and Fultz for Butler. That makes the 76ers much better.
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I just read a rumor of Covington and Fultz for Butler. That makes the 76ers much better.
It makes sense for both teams. Source?
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So they would have ended up trading Tatum and Covington and a probably lottery pick of one year of Butler? Talk about destroying the process with one move.
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I just read a rumor of Covington and Fultz for Butler. That makes the 76ers much better.
It makes sense for both teams. Source?
Not sure how this impacts this trade idea but...
Did everyone already know (except me) that Fultz is now starting ar SG and JJ is coming off the bench? I just read it right now. Maybe I am just not paying any attention to teams other than the C's. Hint, I'm not.
https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-brett-brown-consulted-with-manu-ginobili-gregg-popovich-before-sliding-j-j-redick-into-6th-man-role/ (https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-brett-brown-consulted-with-manu-ginobili-gregg-popovich-before-sliding-j-j-redick-into-6th-man-role/)
Yes I think that makes the sixers a lot better especially if the sixers are playing small and playing both Reddick and Butler.
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I just read a rumor of Covington and Fultz for Butler. That makes the 76ers much better.
It makes sense for both teams. Source?
Not sure how this impacts this trade idea but...
Did everyone already know (except me) that Fultz is now starting ar SG and JJ is coming off the bench? I just read it right now. Maybe I am just not paying any attention to teams other than the C's.
https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-brett-brown-consulted-with-manu-ginobili-gregg-popovich-before-sliding-j-j-redick-into-6th-man-role/ (https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-brett-brown-consulted-with-manu-ginobili-gregg-popovich-before-sliding-j-j-redick-into-6th-man-role/)
Yes I think that makes the sixers a lot better especially if the sixers are playing small and playing both Reddick and Butler.
From what I have read they had not committed to that for the season, but it was something they were considering giving some run in the preseason to see if it is worth doing in the regular season. Reddick would be better as a bench player at this point in his career. He is 34 and we really targeted him in the playoffs last year defensively. It is just a matter of whether Fultz will shoot (he hit a 3 yesterday) and whether he is ready on defense.
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I just read a rumor of Covington and Fultz for Butler. That makes the 76ers much better.
It makes sense for both teams. Source?
Not sure how this impacts this trade idea but...
Did everyone already know (except me) that Fultz is now starting ar SG and JJ is coming off the bench? I just read it right now. Maybe I am just not paying any attention to teams other than the C's.
https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-brett-brown-consulted-with-manu-ginobili-gregg-popovich-before-sliding-j-j-redick-into-6th-man-role/ (https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-brett-brown-consulted-with-manu-ginobili-gregg-popovich-before-sliding-j-j-redick-into-6th-man-role/)
Yes I think that makes the sixers a lot better especially if the sixers are playing small and playing both Reddick and Butler.
From what I have read they had not committed to that for the season, but it was something they were considering giving some run in the preseason to see if it is worth doing in the regular season. Reddick would be better as a bench player at this point in his career. He is 34 and we really targeted him in the playoffs last year defensively. It is just a matter of whether Fultz will shoot (he hit a 3 yesterday) and whether he is ready on defense.
I don't disagree with the concept at all. I am just surprised that they are actually implementing it based on how not ready for prime time Fultz was last year. Maybe that all changed over the summer? Either way, I would enjoy watching Brown play against Fultz more than Brown playing against Butler at least for this year. Philly getting Butler makes things potentially harder for us in the playoffs if we meet again.
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I just read a rumor of Covington and Fultz for Butler. That makes the 76ers much better.
It makes sense for both teams. Source?
Not sure how this impacts this trade idea but...
Did everyone already know (except me) that Fultz is now starting ar SG and JJ is coming off the bench? I just read it right now. Maybe I am just not paying any attention to teams other than the C's. Hint, I'm not.
https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-brett-brown-consulted-with-manu-ginobili-gregg-popovich-before-sliding-j-j-redick-into-6th-man-role/ (https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-brett-brown-consulted-with-manu-ginobili-gregg-popovich-before-sliding-j-j-redick-into-6th-man-role/)
Yes I think that makes the sixers a lot better especially if the sixers are playing small and playing both Reddick and Butler.
Coach Brown only announced that they were trying out Fultz starting and Reddick off the bench a couple hours before their 1st preseason game. If Fultz can shoot reasonably well, I think it is a good move to get more playmaking in the starting lineup.
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I just read a rumor of Covington and Fultz for Butler. That makes the 76ers much better.
It makes sense for both teams. Source?
Can't find source again but this was a trade idea not really a rumor as I originally stated. I believe it was a Sixers news site....
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I just read a rumor of Covington and Fultz for Butler. That makes the 76ers much better.
It makes sense for both teams. Source?
Not sure how this impacts this trade idea but...
Did everyone already know (except me) that Fultz is now starting ar SG and JJ is coming off the bench? I just read it right now. Maybe I am just not paying any attention to teams other than the C's. Hint, I'm not.
https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-brett-brown-consulted-with-manu-ginobili-gregg-popovich-before-sliding-j-j-redick-into-6th-man-role/ (https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-brett-brown-consulted-with-manu-ginobili-gregg-popovich-before-sliding-j-j-redick-into-6th-man-role/)
Yes I think that makes the sixers a lot better especially if the sixers are playing small and playing both Reddick and Butler.
Coach Brown only announced that they were trying out Fultz starting and Reddick off the bench a couple hours before their 1st preseason game. If Fultz can shoot reasonably well, I think it is a good move to get more playmaking in the starting lineup.
Thanks for the clarification.
I always thought that it was assumed that they needed to surround Simons and Embiid with great 3 point shooters to give Simmons room to create. If Fultz can't regain his 3point shot then it feels like it is just two guys doing kind of the same thing. I get it that JJ is slowing down and wasn't a def stopper even when he was younger so diminishing returns to keep him as the starter.
I guess that was my point. I think Butler improves Philly a lot right now as in this season and next season. Especially if Fultz is still having shooting problems.
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The Sixers aren't in a win now situation like Toronto. They also will have Max cap space next offseason and there are a number of good free agents that will be available including Butler. I don't think trading Fultz and Covington for Butler makes sense. I haven't seen anything where Butler named the Sixers as a team he'd like to be traded to so there is a good chance he'd walk after 1 season.
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I just read a rumor of Covington and Fultz for Butler. That makes the 76ers much better.
It makes sense for both teams. Source?
Not sure how this impacts this trade idea but...
Did everyone already know (except me) that Fultz is now starting ar SG and JJ is coming off the bench? I just read it right now. Maybe I am just not paying any attention to teams other than the C's. Hint, I'm not.
https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-brett-brown-consulted-with-manu-ginobili-gregg-popovich-before-sliding-j-j-redick-into-6th-man-role/ (https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-brett-brown-consulted-with-manu-ginobili-gregg-popovich-before-sliding-j-j-redick-into-6th-man-role/)
Yes I think that makes the sixers a lot better especially if the sixers are playing small and playing both Reddick and Butler.
Coach Brown only announced that they were trying out Fultz starting and Reddick off the bench a couple hours before their 1st preseason game. If Fultz can shoot reasonably well, I think it is a good move to get more playmaking in the starting lineup.
Thanks for the clarification.
I always thought that it was assumed that they needed to surround Simons and Embiid with great 3 point shooters to give Simmons room to create. If Fultz can't regain his 3point shot then it feels like it is just two guys doing kind of the same thing. I get it that JJ is slowing down and wasn't a def stopper even when he was younger so diminishing returns to keep him as the starter.
I guess that was my point. I think Butler improves Philly a lot right now as in this season and next season. Especially if Fultz is still having shooting problems.
If The 76ers get Butler for Covington and Fultz then the eastern conference finals will be amazing not to mention opening night.
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The Sixers aren't in a win now situation like Toronto. They also will have Max cap space next offseason and there are a number of good free agents that will be available including Butler. I don't think trading Fultz and Covington for Butler makes sense. I haven't seen anything where Butler named the Sixers as a team he'd like to be traded to so there is a good chance he'd walk after 1 season.
Agree. Plus, Fultz has been doing some pretty nice things so far. Would be silly to move him
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I just read a rumor of Covington and Fultz for Butler. That makes the 76ers much better.
It makes sense for both teams. Source?
Not sure how this impacts this trade idea but...
Did everyone already know (except me) that Fultz is now starting ar SG and JJ is coming off the bench? I just read it right now. Maybe I am just not paying any attention to teams other than the C's. Hint, I'm not.
https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-brett-brown-consulted-with-manu-ginobili-gregg-popovich-before-sliding-j-j-redick-into-6th-man-role/ (https://clutchpoints.com/sixers-news-brett-brown-consulted-with-manu-ginobili-gregg-popovich-before-sliding-j-j-redick-into-6th-man-role/)
Yes I think that makes the sixers a lot better especially if the sixers are playing small and playing both Reddick and Butler.
Coach Brown only announced that they were trying out Fultz starting and Reddick off the bench a couple hours before their 1st preseason game. If Fultz can shoot reasonably well, I think it is a good move to get more playmaking in the starting lineup.
Thanks for the clarification.
I always thought that it was assumed that they needed to surround Simons and Embiid with great 3 point shooters to give Simmons room to create. If Fultz can't regain his 3point shot then it feels like it is just two guys doing kind of the same thing. I get it that JJ is slowing down and wasn't a def stopper even when he was younger so diminishing returns to keep him as the starter.
I guess that was my point. I think Butler improves Philly a lot right now as in this season and next season. Especially if Fultz is still having shooting problems.
This is the last year of Butler's contract. There is no guarantee that he'd re-sign with the Sixers. I agree that he should be a significant improvement on-court but there is his personality to be concerned about. I just don't see wasting assets on a possible 1 year rental when they can go after Butler, Leonard, Middleton, etc next offseason.
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I can't see the Sixers giving up Fultz for Butler. They wouldn't include him in a Kawhi trade and Kawhi is not only better than Butler but also was at least a real possibility to re-sign in Philly. Butler is such an unknown about next summer and I'm not sure he would like playing with Embiid who seems to have some work ethic issues.
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I can't see the Sixers giving up Fultz for Butler. They wouldn't include him in a Kawhi trade and Kawhi is not only better than Butler but also was at least a real possibility to re-sign in Philly. Butler is such an unknown about next summer and I'm not sure he would like playing with Embiid who seems to have some work ethic issues.
I read that Butler is seeking a super max and he can only get that with the team that trades for him....
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I can't see the Sixers giving up Fultz for Butler. They wouldn't include him in a Kawhi trade and Kawhi is not only better than Butler but also was at least a real possibility to re-sign in Philly. Butler is such an unknown about next summer and I'm not sure he would like playing with Embiid who seems to have some work ethic issues.
I read that Butler is seeking a super max and he can only get that with the team that trades for him....
Butler is no longer eligible to get a supermax. Players are only eligible for supermax if they are on the team that originally drafted him or on a team that traded for the player while they were on their rookie contract
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I can't see the Sixers giving up Fultz for Butler. They wouldn't include him in a Kawhi trade and Kawhi is not only better than Butler but also was at least a real possibility to re-sign in Philly. Butler is such an unknown about next summer and I'm not sure he would like playing with Embiid who seems to have some work ethic issues.
I read that Butler is seeking a super max and he can only get that with the team that trades for him....
Butler is no longer eligible to get a supermax. Players are only eligible for supermax if they are on the team that originally drafted him or on a team that traded for the player while they were on their rookie contract
Oh, OK but isn't the team that has Jimmy Butler at the end of the year able to pay him the most money and give him the 5 year contract?
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I can't see the Sixers giving up Fultz for Butler. They wouldn't include him in a Kawhi trade and Kawhi is not only better than Butler but also was at least a real possibility to re-sign in Philly. Butler is such an unknown about next summer and I'm not sure he would like playing with Embiid who seems to have some work ethic issues.
I read that Butler is seeking a super max and he can only get that with the team that trades for him....
Butler is no longer eligible to get a supermax. Players are only eligible for supermax if they are on the team that originally drafted him or on a team that traded for the player while they were on their rookie contract
Oh, OK but isn't the team that has Jimmy Butler at the end of the year able to pay him the most money and give him the 5 year contract?
correct, that gets conflated a lot with national media (who call it the supermax w/o understanding the difference)
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I can't see the Sixers giving up Fultz for Butler. They wouldn't include him in a Kawhi trade and Kawhi is not only better than Butler but also was at least a real possibility to re-sign in Philly. Butler is such an unknown about next summer and I'm not sure he would like playing with Embiid who seems to have some work ethic issues.
I read that Butler is seeking a super max and he can only get that with the team that trades for him....
Butler is no longer eligible to get a supermax. Players are only eligible for supermax if they are on the team that originally drafted him or on a team that traded for the player while they were on their rookie contract
Oh, OK but isn't the team that has Jimmy Butler at the end of the year able to pay him the most money and give him the 5 year contract?
correct, that gets conflated a lot with national media (who call it the supermax w/o understanding the difference)
Yes, and thanks to nickagneta for the correction.... and matteo for additional confirmation....
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I can't see the Sixers giving up Fultz for Butler. They wouldn't include him in a Kawhi trade and Kawhi is not only better than Butler but also was at least a real possibility to re-sign in Philly. Butler is such an unknown about next summer and I'm not sure he would like playing with Embiid who seems to have some work ethic issues.
I read that Butler is seeking a super max and he can only get that with the team that trades for him....
Butler is no longer eligible to get a supermax. Players are only eligible for supermax if they are on the team that originally drafted him or on a team that traded for the player while they were on their rookie contract
Oh, OK but isn't the team that has Jimmy Butler at the end of the year able to pay him the most money and give him the 5 year contract?
correct, that gets conflated a lot with national media (who call it the supermax w/o understanding the difference)
Yes, and thanks to nickagneta for the correction.... and matteo for additional confirmation....
Yeah, the supermax is related to the percentage of the salary cap number that can be given out to the player while the 5 year deal is just a year longer deal at the lower percentage. But supermax contracts can be and generally are 5 year deals too, which causes the confusion.
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I just look at supermax's for what they are, which is elevating a player into the next category of max players. Normally a player like Butler would only be eligible for the 30% max since he is not yet a 10 year veteran. The supermax rules (which he doesn't qualify for) would allow him to sign a contract that a 10 year veteran would be eligible for if he would have met all of the conditions. The 10 year veteran max is 35% of the salary cap. So it just bumps a player up a level. They also have basically the same thing for rookie scale players as well, allowing them to sign for 30% instead of 25% if they meet all of the conditions.
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Some interesting notes on the starting lineup sheet: Derrick Rose starting for T’Wolves. Also, check out the reason given for Jimmy Butler’s absence. Sure.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoTOgaNUYAA5CJI.jpg)
https://twitter.com/NickFriedell/status/1046188074831499264
I missed this, but Butler is actually still rehabbing his wrist injury. He is nearing health and the Wolves expect him to play this year if they don't have a trade worked out before the start of the season.
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Can't help but point out the parallels to the Kyrie situation just before he was traded to Boston.
1. Superstar demanding a trade.
2. Injury status is a question/issue.
3. Celtics have many assets to offer.
Is an opportunistic Danny Ainge in this game?
and now for my least favorite popular phase: "Just sayin'"
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No.
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Can't help but point out the parallels to the Kyrie situation just before he was traded to Boston.
1. Superstar demanding a trade.
2. Injury status is a question/issue.
3. Celtics have many assets to offer.
Is an opportunistic Danny Ainge in this game?
and now for my least favorite popular phase: "Just sayin'"
God I hope not
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Getting Jimmy Butler would be easy - keeping him makes it almost impossible unless you want to lose Brown or Tatum because of long term $. It would be stupid to trade jackEdited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. for a 1 year rental.
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Can't help but point out the parallels to the Kyrie situation just before he was traded to Boston.
1. Superstar demanding a trade.
2. Injury status is a question/issue.
3. Celtics have many assets to offer.
Is an opportunistic Danny Ainge in this game?
and now for my least favorite popular phase: "Just sayin'"
Why the hell would we ever dream of going after someone like Jimmy Butler? He was the player we dreamed of several years ago; but that ship has sailed...
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Given the likelihood that he winds up with the Heat (for Richardson, Bam, and Tyler Johnson), two questions for the forum:
1) How does the Heat roster and coaching staff matchup with the roster and coaching staffs of the Bucks, Sixers, Raptors, and Celtics ?
2) What could be a realistic second piece to pair with Butler? I don't think they have a championship level second piece right now (and Butler might not be a championship level first piece). Who could that second guy be?
For me, I think the Heat could be EC finalists. I could see them beating the Bucks, Sixers, or Raptors in a 7 game series. I think they have the best coach of the group, and my opinion (probably minority) that thinks the Heat are pretty comparable to the Raptors, Bucks, and Sixers in overall talent.
As far as my second question goes, I don't have many good ideas. Aaron Gordon could be an interesting frontcourt partner, but I don't see any trades to make that happen.
Marc Gasol could fit their window. If the Grizzles stumble out of the gates, maybe he becomes available. A Butler-Dragic-Gasol core would be a nasty playoff team to play against. Again, though, I don't know how the Heat can make that happen.
There's also an outside chance that Lillard or McCullom becomes available, but again I'm not sure what they can offer, and I'm not sure of the fit next to Butler.
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Can't help but point out the parallels to the Kyrie situation just before he was traded to Boston.
1. Superstar demanding a trade.
2. Injury status is a question/issue.
3. Celtics have many assets to offer.
Is an opportunistic Danny Ainge in this game?
and now for my least favorite popular phase: "Just sayin'"
Even if he was willing to do the talent swap and thinks Jimmy would stay I have a hard time believing he wants a situation where he has to sign two new max contracts this offseason. It would just bury us financially, and our young wings are so promising it's unclear if it'd make the team all that much better in the long run.
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Given the likelihood that he winds up with the Heat (for Richardson, Bam, and Tyler Johnson), two questions for the forum:
1) How does the Heat roster and coaching staff matchup with the roster and coaching staffs of the Bucks, Sixers, Raptors, and Celtics ?
2) What could be a realistic second piece to pair with Butler? I don't think they have a championship level second piece right now (and Butler might not be a championship level first piece). Who could that second guy be?
For me, I think the Heat could be EC finalists. I could see them beating the Bucks, Sixers, or Raptors in a 7 game series. I think they have the best coach of the group, and my opinion (probably minority) that thinks the Heat are pretty comparable to the Raptors, Bucks, and Sixers in overall talent.
As far as my second question goes, I don't have many good ideas. Aaron Gordon could be an interesting frontcourt partner, but I don't see any trades to make that happen.
Marc Gasol could fit their window. If the Grizzles stumble out of the gates, maybe he becomes available. A Butler-Dragic-Gasol core would be a nasty playoff team to play against. Again, though, I don't know how the Heat can make that happen.
There's also an outside chance that Lillard or McCullom becomes available, but again I'm not sure what they can offer, and I'm not sure of the fit next to Butler.
In terms of your first question, I think quite a lot depends on the development of the young stars of both Philly and Milwaukee, and whether or not Kawhi can return to form.
If Giannis has a top-5 MVP caliber season under Budenzholzer I could see that team being a problem.
I'm less concerned about Philly, because I think they're easier to coach against and are weaker for having lost Ilyasova and Belinelli.
If Kawhi returns to the form he was in pre-injury, which for me was #2 guy in the league form, that makes the Raptors probably the most formidable of the lot, followed by the Bucks, then a Butler-Dragic led Heat and then the Sixers.
However, if Whiteside can return to the guy who averaged nearly 4 blocks per game in less than 30mpg, alongside a really solid stretch-4 in either Olynyk or Johnson, and an improving Winslow, I could see all 4 of those teams being on the same level.
I think you touched upon the important bits about potential Miami moves following the addition of Butler a couple of times - what else could they offer to try and nab to try and propel themselves into true contender status? With Whiteside's value at quite a low level, Dragic ageing and not much promising young talent, it's hard to say that they have a very good crop of assets to offer for someone.
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Can't help but point out the parallels to the Kyrie situation just before he was traded to Boston.
1. Superstar demanding a trade.
2. Injury status is a question/issue.
3. Celtics have many assets to offer.
Is an opportunistic Danny Ainge in this game?
and now for my least favorite popular phase: "Just sayin'"
Until Smart can be traded well into the season, the only way Boston can acquire Butler in a trade is to trade one of the 5 core players and at this point that doesn't make a lot of sense. At one point, not even that long ago, I'd have been ok moving Brown in the trade, but not now (Irving is saying the right things, Butler is still hurt, Butler's lockerroom issues are more known, etc.). So until Smart can be moved, Boston can't acquire Butler.
Now if by mid-season Butler is still in Minnesota, is playing well, still wants out, and Boston looks like it could use a jolt and the trade was basically Smart, salary filler, and its own first (so like a pick in the late 20's), then I'd be all for going all in, even if it meant I just let Butler walk at the end of the year. I'd then re-sign Rozier instead of Smart, as I think Boston can only keep 1 of them anyway.
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No.
Well said!
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Can't help but point out the parallels to the Kyrie situation just before he was traded to Boston.
1. Superstar demanding a trade.
2. Injury status is a question/issue.
3. Celtics have many assets to offer.
Is an opportunistic Danny Ainge in this game?
and now for my least favorite popular phase: "Just sayin'"
Until Smart can be traded well into the season, the only way Boston can acquire Butler in a trade is to trade one of the 5 core players and at this point that doesn't make a lot of sense. At one point, not even that long ago, I'd have been ok moving Brown in the trade, but not now (Irving is saying the right things, Butler is still hurt, Butler's lockerroom issues are more known, etc.). So until Smart can be moved, Boston can't acquire Butler.
Now if by mid-season Butler is still in Minnesota, is playing well, still wants out, and Boston looks like it could use a jolt and the trade was basically Smart, salary filler, and its own first (so like a pick in the late 20's), then I'd be all for going all in, even if it meant I just let Butler walk at the end of the year. I'd then re-sign Rozier instead of Smart, as I think Boston can only keep 1 of them anyway.
Agreed. There is no real way to work the salaries in a deal for butler without Smart's contract even if you gave up Jaylen. The Lakers also have no path to a deal because of the matching salaries....
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I've been reading a bunch of trade rumors and it sounds like teams are trying to low ball the Timberwolves...
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I've been reading a bunch of trade rumors and it sounds like teams are trying to low ball the Timberwolves...
you have it wrong. The wolves are significantly overvaluing Butler.
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I've been reading a bunch of trade rumors and it sounds like teams are trying to low ball the Timberwolves...
you have it wrong. The wolves are significantly overvaluing Butler.
What do you think his value is? Is it more or less than what the Pacers got for trading George?
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I've been reading a bunch of trade rumors and it sounds like teams are trying to low ball the Timberwolves...
you have it wrong. The wolves are significantly overvaluing Butler.
What do you think his value is? Is it more or less than what the Pacers got for trading George?
It's less.
Butler probably has equal value on talent, but the complicating factor is Minnesota cannot go into the season with Butler on the roster. He does not want to be there, and Towns does not want him there either. Butler has also started to really come across as a bit of a malcontent, a label that George never had attached to him. Everyone in NBA circles knows this, so it limits Minnesota's leverage in trade talks.
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I've been reading a bunch of trade rumors and it sounds like teams are trying to low ball the Timberwolves...
you have it wrong. The wolves are significantly overvaluing Butler.
What do you think his value is? Is it more or less than what the Pacers got for trading George?
It's less.
Butler probably has equal value on talent, but the complicating factor is Minnesota cannot go into the season with Butler on the roster. He does not want to be there, and Towns does not want him there either. Butler has also started to really come across as a bit of a malcontent, a label that George never had attached to him. Everyone in NBA circles knows this, so it limits Minnesota's leverage in trade talks.
additionally, although Indy did very well, at the time the consensus was that Oladipo was a negative value (although he had talent, it wasn't commensurate with his contract)
not many people believed he would become what he is now, especially his first year...not even Indy IMO
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I've been reading a bunch of trade rumors and it sounds like teams are trying to low ball the Timberwolves...
you have it wrong. The wolves are significantly overvaluing Butler.
What do you think his value is? Is it more or less than what the Pacers got for trading George?
It's less.
Butler probably has equal value on talent, but the complicating factor is Minnesota cannot go into the season with Butler on the roster. He does not want to be there, and Towns does not want him there either. Butler has also started to really come across as a bit of a malcontent, a label that George never had attached to him. Everyone in NBA circles knows this, so it limits Minnesota's leverage in trade talks.
additionally, although Indy did very well, at the time the consensus was that Oladipo was a negative value (although he had talent, it wasn't commensurate with his contract)
not many people believed he would become what he is now, especially his first year...not even Indy IMO
Some people are undervaluing Sabonis in that trade though. He was an excellent big man prospect who looks very good thus far.
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I don't know why I keep reading that The Celtics and Lakers could be in play for a Jimmy Butler Trade, either team has the salaries to make such a trade.
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Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I'm watching the beginning of the Magic-Heat preseason game right now (wanted to get a glimpse Bamba and Iwundu), but they have done nothing but talk about Richardson the entire time. They had a brief interview with Spo about him. They ran multiple stats highlighting him on defense, blocking, and shooting. Then, the announcers did nothing but talk about him for the first few minutes of the game.
The cynic in me says this is an organizational effort to boost Richardson's trade value in the trade for Butler.
I like Richardson. I like him a lot. I think he can still go up another level as a player. I think he would be a great get in a trade for Butler. But he is probably the 3rd best starter on the Heat, and even that may be generous.
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Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I'm watching the beginning of the Magic-Heat preseason game right now (wanted to get a glimpse Bamba and Iwundu), but they have done nothing but talk about Richardson the entire time. They had a brief interview with Spo about him. They ran multiple stats highlighting him on defense, blocking, and shooting. Then, the announcers did nothing but talk about him for the first few minutes of the game.
The cynic in me says this is an organizational effort to boost Richardson's trade value in the trade for Butler.
I like Richardson. I like him a lot. I think he can still go up another level as a player. I think he would be a great get in a trade for Butler. But he is probably the 3rd best starter on the Heat, and even that may be generous.
Dragic is definitely better but who else on the roster is definitely better? Whitside and Winslow? I guess I don't know the Heat's roster well enough to know where he ranks....
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Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I'm watching the beginning of the Magic-Heat preseason game right now (wanted to get a glimpse Bamba and Iwundu), but they have done nothing but talk about Richardson the entire time. They had a brief interview with Spo about him. They ran multiple stats highlighting him on defense, blocking, and shooting. Then, the announcers did nothing but talk about him for the first few minutes of the game.
The cynic in me says this is an organizational effort to boost Richardson's trade value in the trade for Butler.
I like Richardson. I like him a lot. I think he can still go up another level as a player. I think he would be a great get in a trade for Butler. But he is probably the 3rd best starter on the Heat, and even that may be generous.
Dragic is definitely better but who else on the roster is definitely better? Whitside and Winslow? I guess I don't know the Heat's roster well enough to know where he ranks....
I personally would have James Johnson ahead of him, Dragic as you mention, and perhaps Whiteside. Whiteside is certainly more gifted, just a bonehead
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Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I'm watching the beginning of the Magic-Heat preseason game right now (wanted to get a glimpse Bamba and Iwundu), but they have done nothing but talk about Richardson the entire time. They had a brief interview with Spo about him. They ran multiple stats highlighting him on defense, blocking, and shooting. Then, the announcers did nothing but talk about him for the first few minutes of the game.
The cynic in me says this is an organizational effort to boost Richardson's trade value in the trade for Butler.
I like Richardson. I like him a lot. I think he can still go up another level as a player. I think he would be a great get in a trade for Butler. But he is probably the 3rd best starter on the Heat, and even that may be generous.
Dragic is definitely better but who else on the roster is definitely better? Whitside and Winslow? I guess I don't know the Heat's roster well enough to know where he ranks....
I personally would have James Johnson ahead of him, Dragic as you mention, and perhaps Whiteside. Whiteside is certainly more gifted, just a bonehead
Yeah, I could see that but as I'm looking over Miami's roster construction, they really overpaid for some role players.
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Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I'm watching the beginning of the Magic-Heat preseason game right now (wanted to get a glimpse Bamba and Iwundu), but they have done nothing but talk about Richardson the entire time. They had a brief interview with Spo about him. They ran multiple stats highlighting him on defense, blocking, and shooting. Then, the announcers did nothing but talk about him for the first few minutes of the game.
The cynic in me says this is an organizational effort to boost Richardson's trade value in the trade for Butler.
I like Richardson. I like him a lot. I think he can still go up another level as a player. I think he would be a great get in a trade for Butler. But he is probably the 3rd best starter on the Heat, and even that may be generous.
Dragic is definitely better but who else on the roster is definitely better? Whitside and Winslow? I guess I don't know the Heat's roster well enough to know where he ranks....
I personally would have James Johnson ahead of him, Dragic as you mention, and perhaps Whiteside. Whiteside is certainly more gifted, just a bonehead
Yeah, I could see that but as I'm looking over Miami's roster construction, they really overpaid for some role players.
Tyler Johnson most especially, although he always seems to dominate against us, mysteriously
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Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I'm watching the beginning of the Magic-Heat preseason game right now (wanted to get a glimpse Bamba and Iwundu), but they have done nothing but talk about Richardson the entire time. They had a brief interview with Spo about him. They ran multiple stats highlighting him on defense, blocking, and shooting. Then, the announcers did nothing but talk about him for the first few minutes of the game.
The cynic in me says this is an organizational effort to boost Richardson's trade value in the trade for Butler.
I like Richardson. I like him a lot. I think he can still go up another level as a player. I think he would be a great get in a trade for Butler. But he is probably the 3rd best starter on the Heat, and even that may be generous.
Dragic is definitely better but who else on the roster is definitely better? Whitside and Winslow? I guess I don't know the Heat's roster well enough to know where he ranks....
I personally would have James Johnson ahead of him, Dragic as you mention, and perhaps Whiteside. Whiteside is certainly more gifted, just a bonehead
Yeah, I could see that but as I'm looking over Miami's roster construction, they really overpaid for some role players.
Tyler Johnson most especially, although he always seems to dominate against us, mysteriously
Tyler Johnson making 19 million a year
Kelly making 12 million
Dion Waiters 11 million
Whiteside 25 million
Wayne Ellington 6 million
total: 73 million dollars
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Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I'm watching the beginning of the Magic-Heat preseason game right now (wanted to get a glimpse Bamba and Iwundu), but they have done nothing but talk about Richardson the entire time. They had a brief interview with Spo about him. They ran multiple stats highlighting him on defense, blocking, and shooting. Then, the announcers did nothing but talk about him for the first few minutes of the game.
The cynic in me says this is an organizational effort to boost Richardson's trade value in the trade for Butler.
I like Richardson. I like him a lot. I think he can still go up another level as a player. I think he would be a great get in a trade for Butler. But he is probably the 3rd best starter on the Heat, and even that may be generous.
Dragic is definitely better but who else on the roster is definitely better? Whitside and Winslow? I guess I don't know the Heat's roster well enough to know where he ranks....
I personally would have James Johnson ahead of him, Dragic as you mention, and perhaps Whiteside. Whiteside is certainly more gifted, just a bonehead
Yeah, I could see that but as I'm looking over Miami's roster construction, they really overpaid for some role players.
Tyler Johnson most especially, although he always seems to dominate against us, mysteriously
They matched Johnson didn't they? Wasn't that a Nets contract offer like Crabbe who was also matched and then they ended up with anyway?
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Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I'm watching the beginning of the Magic-Heat preseason game right now (wanted to get a glimpse Bamba and Iwundu), but they have done nothing but talk about Richardson the entire time. They had a brief interview with Spo about him. They ran multiple stats highlighting him on defense, blocking, and shooting. Then, the announcers did nothing but talk about him for the first few minutes of the game.
The cynic in me says this is an organizational effort to boost Richardson's trade value in the trade for Butler.
I like Richardson. I like him a lot. I think he can still go up another level as a player. I think he would be a great get in a trade for Butler. But he is probably the 3rd best starter on the Heat, and even that may be generous.
Dragic is definitely better but who else on the roster is definitely better? Whitside and Winslow? I guess I don't know the Heat's roster well enough to know where he ranks....
I personally would have James Johnson ahead of him, Dragic as you mention, and perhaps Whiteside. Whiteside is certainly more gifted, just a bonehead
Yeah, I could see that but as I'm looking over Miami's roster construction, they really overpaid for some role players.
Tyler Johnson most especially, although he always seems to dominate against us, mysteriously
They matched Johnson didn't they? Wasn't that a Nets contract offer like Crabbe who was also matched and then they ended up with anyway?
I think you're right, 4/50 was his deal. However, it was incredibly back-heavy, so it was basically 5.6/5.8/19.2/19.2, so it's quite ugly now.
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The Tyler Johnson contract looks bad, but it was really a $50M/4 year contract. The first two years of the contract only paid him like $11M combined; it's the last two years of $19M+ each that makes his contract look insane.
Anyway, I hope this Butler stuff gets worked out soon. There is only another week or so before the season starts. It's going to be weird if he just isn't playing, but still a part of the Wolves.
EDIT: tp to gouki for beating me to the Johnson contract details.
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The Tyler Johnson contract looks bad, but it was really a $50M/4 year contract. The first two years of the contract only paid him like $11M combined; it's the last two years of $19M+ each that makes his contract looked insane.
Anyway, I hope this Butler stuff gets worked out soon. There is only another week or so before the season starts. It's going to be weird if he just isn't playing, but still a part of the Wolves.
EDIT: tp to gouki for beating me to the Johnson contract details.
Danny Ainge would never sign this kind of contract. It's what keeps your team from contending.
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The Wolves are getting into a powerplay with Butler and it's not going to end well. The longer they drag it out the worse it will be...
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The Wolves are getting into a powerplay with Butler and it's not going to end well. The longer they drag it out the worse it will be...
I don't necessarily agree. I know it's typical to make the team the bad guy in this situation, but I think this is hurting Butler too.
Ultimately, the Wolves will find a team that pays close to what they want. In fact, the narrative I suggested yesterday was that McDonough for the Suns was unwilling to include Jackson in a trade for Butler, which ultimately led (with his other questionable moves) to him getting fired. Now, you have to wonder if a Chandler, Jackson, Warren for Dieng and Butler would get it done.
That's better than Bam, Richardson, and Johnson package from the Heat.
That's probably better than the Harris, Gortat, Robinson package from the Clippers.
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The Tyler Johnson contract looks bad, but it was really a $50M/4 year contract. The first two years of the contract only paid him like $11M combined; it's the last two years of $19M+ each that makes his contract looked insane.
Anyway, I hope this Butler stuff gets worked out soon. There is only another week or so before the season starts. It's going to be weird if he just isn't playing, but still a part of the Wolves.
EDIT: tp to gouki for beating me to the Johnson contract details.
Danny Ainge would never sign this kind of contract. It's what keeps your team from contending.
I don't know all the details on this specific contract, but usually when they have a massive jump like that the cap hit is spread evenly across the contract. So from a cap standpoint, it's no different than a 4/$50 million contract worth $12.5 million every year
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The Tyler Johnson contract looks bad, but it was really a $50M/4 year contract. The first two years of the contract only paid him like $11M combined; it's the last two years of $19M+ each that makes his contract looked insane.
Anyway, I hope this Butler stuff gets worked out soon. There is only another week or so before the season starts. It's going to be weird if he just isn't playing, but still a part of the Wolves.
EDIT: tp to gouki for beating me to the Johnson contract details.
Danny Ainge would never sign this kind of contract. It's what keeps your team from contending.
I don't know all the details on this specific contract, but usually when they have a massive jump like that the cap hit is spread evenly across the contract. So from a cap standpoint, it's no different than a 4/$50 million contract worth $12.5 million every year
It makes future flexibility harder with the way it's structured and it's an overpay.
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The Wolves are getting into a powerplay with Butler and it's not going to end well. The longer they drag it out the worse it will be...
I don't necessarily agree. I know it's typical to make the team the bad guy in this situation, but I think this is hurting Butler too.
Ultimately, the Wolves will find a team that pays close to what they want. In fact, the narrative I suggested yesterday was that McDonough for the Suns was unwilling to include Jackson in a trade for Butler, which ultimately led (with his other questionable moves) to him getting fired. Now, you have to wonder if a Chandler, Jackson, Warren for Dieng and Butler would get it done.
That's better than Bam, Richardson, and Johnson package from the Heat.
That's probably better than the Harris, Gortat, Robinson package from the Clippers.
That Phoenix deal does look better. But I think Jackson is a good prospect and a good fit for the Timberwolves.
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Better not keep him all season..he leave and wont get nothing..look at Phoenix with Amare and Toronto with Chris Bosh..they left and got nothing..hurt them for awhile
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The Tyler Johnson contract looks bad, but it was really a $50M/4 year contract. The first two years of the contract only paid him like $11M combined; it's the last two years of $19M+ each that makes his contract looked insane.
Anyway, I hope this Butler stuff gets worked out soon. There is only another week or so before the season starts. It's going to be weird if he just isn't playing, but still a part of the Wolves.
EDIT: tp to gouki for beating me to the Johnson contract details.
Danny Ainge would never sign this kind of contract. It's what keeps your team from contending.
I don't know all the details on this specific contract, but usually when they have a massive jump like that the cap hit is spread evenly across the contract. So from a cap standpoint, it's no different than a 4/$50 million contract worth $12.5 million every year
It makes future flexibility harder with the way it's structured and it's an overpay.
It works the same way in a trade as a contract with flat salary. The only difference is the actual money paid, but salary matching and cap hits are the same. It has no effect on flexibility. As for being an overpay, that has nothing to do with the structure of the contract.
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The Wolves are getting into a powerplay with Butler and it's not going to end well. The longer they drag it out the worse it will be...
I don't necessarily agree. I know it's typical to make the team the bad guy in this situation, but I think this is hurting Butler too.
Ultimately, the Wolves will find a team that pays close to what they want. In fact, the narrative I suggested yesterday was that McDonough for the Suns was unwilling to include Jackson in a trade for Butler, which ultimately led (with his other questionable moves) to him getting fired. Now, you have to wonder if a Chandler, Jackson, Warren for Dieng and Butler would get it done.
That's better than Bam, Richardson, and Johnson package from the Heat.
That's probably better than the Harris, Gortat, Robinson package from the Clippers.
That Phoenix deal does look better. But I think Jackson is a good prospect and a good fit for the Timberwolves.
Is there any chance Butler resigns in Phoenix to play with Booker, Ariza, Bridges and Ayton? If he thought Towns, Wiggins, Rose, Teague and Gibson was not a competitive squad what is he going to think of going even younger and less accomplished?
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Better not keep him all season..he leave and wont get nothing..look at Phoenix with Amare and Toronto with Chris Bosh..they left and got nothing..hurt them for awhile
Toronto got 2 first round picks for Bosh, including their own pick back that became a top 5 pick.
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The Wolves are getting into a powerplay with Butler and it's not going to end well. The longer they drag it out the worse it will be...
I don't necessarily agree. I know it's typical to make the team the bad guy in this situation, but I think this is hurting Butler too.
Ultimately, the Wolves will find a team that pays close to what they want. In fact, the narrative I suggested yesterday was that McDonough for the Suns was unwilling to include Jackson in a trade for Butler, which ultimately led (with his other questionable moves) to him getting fired. Now, you have to wonder if a Chandler, Jackson, Warren for Dieng and Butler would get it done.
That's better than Bam, Richardson, and Johnson package from the Heat.
That's probably better than the Harris, Gortat, Robinson package from the Clippers.
That Phoenix deal does look better. But I think Jackson is a good prospect and a good fit for the Timberwolves.
Is there any chance Butler resigns in Phoenix to play with Booker, Ariza, Bridges and Ayton? If he thought Towns, Wiggins, Rose, Teague and Gibson was not a competitive squad what is he going to think of going even younger and less accomplished?
I think Booker is the best player on that list.
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Woj (Drama) Bomb:
All-Star Jimmy Butler participated in Minnesota's practice, a session that included him verbally challenging teammates, coaches and front office, league sources told ESPN. Butler was vociferous and emotional at times, targeting Thibodeau/Layden/Towns/Wiggins. Story soon on ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050099591226552320 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050099591226552320)
Lol update:
At one point in a scrimmage, sources said, Butler turned to GM Scott Layden and screamed, "You (bleeping) need me. You can't win without me." Butler left teammates and coaches largely speechless. He dominated the gym in every way. Jimmy's back.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050102251262480386 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050102251262480386)
Sounds like a normal, healthy atmosphere over there in Minnesota. Although honestly, depending on how it got taken this kind of thing could unify the team, albeit probably against Butler.
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Woj (Drama) Bomb:
All-Star Jimmy Butler participated in Minnesota's practice, a session that included him verbally challenging teammates, coaches and front office, league sources told ESPN. Butler was vociferous and emotional at times, targeting Thibodeau/Layden/Towns/Wiggins. Story soon on ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050099591226552320 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050099591226552320)
Lol update:
At one point in a scrimmage, sources said, Butler turned to GM Scott Layden and screamed, "You (bleeping) need me. You can't win without me." Butler left teammates and coaches largely speechless. He dominated the gym in every way. Jimmy's back.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050102251262480386 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050102251262480386)
Sounds like a normal, healthy atmosphere over there in Minnesota. Although honestly, depending on how it got taken this kind of thing could unify the team, albeit probably against Butler.
it certainly doesn't make it easier for the Wolves to trade him.
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I never want to hear about Butler to Celtics. not even for free.
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Woj (Drama) Bomb:
All-Star Jimmy Butler participated in Minnesota's practice, a session that included him verbally challenging teammates, coaches and front office, league sources told ESPN. Butler was vociferous and emotional at times, targeting Thibodeau/Layden/Towns/Wiggins. Story soon on ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050099591226552320 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050099591226552320)
Lol update:
At one point in a scrimmage, sources said, Butler turned to GM Scott Layden and screamed, "You (bleeping) need me. You can't win without me." Butler left teammates and coaches largely speechless. He dominated the gym in every way. Jimmy's back.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050102251262480386 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050102251262480386)
Sounds like a normal, healthy atmosphere over there in Minnesota. Although honestly, depending on how it got taken this kind of thing could unify the team, albeit probably against Butler.
it certainly doesn't make it easier for the Wolves to trade him.
wow lol
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I never want to hear about Butler to Celtics. not even for free.
Hahaha it sure is fun to watch from a distance, though isn't it?
Honestly though, is this really something you couldn't see KG doing if he was fed up enough with his team? Just pure don't-give-a-bleep busting the hell out of everyone with his game and his mouth? I mean he was known to fight a teammate or two in his day.
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Woj (Drama) Bomb:
All-Star Jimmy Butler participated in Minnesota's practice, a session that included him verbally challenging teammates, coaches and front office, league sources told ESPN. Butler was vociferous and emotional at times, targeting Thibodeau/Layden/Towns/Wiggins. Story soon on ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050099591226552320 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050099591226552320)
Lol update:
At one point in a scrimmage, sources said, Butler turned to GM Scott Layden and screamed, "You (bleeping) need me. You can't win without me." Butler left teammates and coaches largely speechless. He dominated the gym in every way. Jimmy's back.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050102251262480386 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050102251262480386)
Sounds like a normal, healthy atmosphere over there in Minnesota. Although honestly, depending on how it got taken this kind of thing could unify the team, albeit probably against Butler.
it certainly doesn't make it easier for the Wolves to trade him.
They should just take the heat package and move on
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Woj (Drama) Bomb:
All-Star Jimmy Butler participated in Minnesota's practice, a session that included him verbally challenging teammates, coaches and front office, league sources told ESPN. Butler was vociferous and emotional at times, targeting Thibodeau/Layden/Towns/Wiggins. Story soon on ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050099591226552320 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050099591226552320)
Lol update:
At one point in a scrimmage, sources said, Butler turned to GM Scott Layden and screamed, "You (bleeping) need me. You can't win without me." Butler left teammates and coaches largely speechless. He dominated the gym in every way. Jimmy's back.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050102251262480386 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1050102251262480386)
Sounds like a normal, healthy atmosphere over there in Minnesota. Although honestly, depending on how it got taken this kind of thing could unify the team, albeit probably against Butler.
it certainly doesn't make it easier for the Wolves to trade him.
They should just take the heat package and move on
Any slackers on the Mojitos?
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I never want to hear about Butler to Celtics. not even for free.
What? That's a very talented player right there. We need competitors and aggressors like him on this team. I'd take him for free, esp if Hayward doesn't pan out.
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I never want to hear about Butler to Celtics. not even for free.
Hahaha it sure is fun to watch from a distance, though isn't it?
Honestly though, is this really something you couldn't see KG doing if he was fed up enough with his team? Just pure don't-give-a-bleep busting the hell out of everyone with his game and his mouth? I mean he was known to fight a teammate or two in his day.
I like the part where he made fat boy Davis cried. And giving Ray Allen the cold shoulders after his defection.
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"Many of the Minnesota players left practice energized by Butler's performance, mesmerized with him taking several end-of-the-bench players and running the table in scrimmage games against the regulars, league sources said. After punctuating the final victory at the end of practice, Butler marched out of the gym as though to emphasize he had proven his point, sources said. Coaches and players were largely speechless, league sources said."
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"Many of the Minnesota players left practice energized by Butler's performance, mesmerized with him taking several end-of-the-bench players and running the table in scrimmage games against the regulars, league sources said. After punctuating the final victory at the end of practice, Butler marched out of the gym as though to emphasize he had proven his point, sources said. Coaches and players were largely speechless, league sources said."
This sounds totally badass! He basically wupped the starters using a team of 3rd stringers and told everyone off, then walked out. Legendary!
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All this seems to have exposed Towns. A year ago, he was possibly the most valuable young player in the league. There were several reports on this practice out there and no indication he fought back. Total humiliation.
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if i was a T-Wolve player and he did all that hollering at me, i would do a Bill Laimbeer on him!!
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"Many of the Minnesota players left practice energized by Butler's performance, mesmerized with him taking several end-of-the-bench players and running the table in scrimmage games against the regulars, league sources said. After punctuating the final victory at the end of practice, Butler marched out of the gym as though to emphasize he had proven his point, sources said. Coaches and players were largely speechless, league sources said."
This sounds totally badass! He basically wupped the starters using a team of 3rd stringers and told everyone off, then walked out. Legendary!
Yeah I'm still glad that drama's not over here but I'm firmly on Team Jimmy now. A hell of a way to make your point. And it actually might help them.
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At one point, Butler found himself guarding Towns in the post and when the big man received the entry pass, Butler yelled, “He can’t do [expletive] against me!” and Towns ended up kicking the ball out, league sources said.
Neither Towns nor Wiggins confronted Butler at any point, league sources said
Some players were motivated by Butler’s theatrics, but others were distraught and speechless, most notably Towns, league sources said.
Towns then huddled the players up with a message centered on everyone keeping their emotions in check, league sources said. But according to some of the players, the message was empty.
https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-karl-anthony-towns-andrew-wiggins-primary-targets-jimmy-butlers-practice-insults-220611226.html
I started to question KAT's mindset in the playoffs last year. And now... Sheesh.
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This is everything we've already known about the Wolves though. There is a reason that team doesn't like each other lol
Butler even with his talent and determination can ruin a locker rooms chemistry very quickly. Towns being the king of empty stats, and Wiggins just being a guy that hasn't come close to living up o the hype. I'm sure Thibs still wants them all back though because he doesn't really care about running guys into the ground with his old school approach.
Oh was mess that must be.
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"Many of the Minnesota players left practice energized by Butler's performance, mesmerized with him taking several end-of-the-bench players and running the table in scrimmage games against the regulars, league sources said. After punctuating the final victory at the end of practice, Butler marched out of the gym as though to emphasize he had proven his point, sources said. Coaches and players were largely speechless, league sources said."
This sounds totally badass! He basically wupped the starters using a team of 3rd stringers and told everyone off, then walked out. Legendary!
Yeah, but he clearly wanted it and the reports seem to indicate most of the team was speechless.
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I never want to hear about Butler to Celtics. not even for free.
Hahaha it sure is fun to watch from a distance, though isn't it?
Honestly though, is this really something you couldn't see KG doing if he was fed up enough with his team? Just pure don't-give-a-bleep busting the hell out of everyone with his game and his mouth? I mean he was known to fight a teammate or two in his day.
Jimmy Butler aint KG though
I think he thinks he is, and thats the problem.
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I never want to hear about Butler to Celtics. not even for free.
Hahaha it sure is fun to watch from a distance, though isn't it?
Honestly though, is this really something you couldn't see KG doing if he was fed up enough with his team? Just pure don't-give-a-bleep busting the hell out of everyone with his game and his mouth? I mean he was known to fight a teammate or two in his day.
Jimmy Butler aint KG though
I think he thinks he is, and thats the problem.
he doesn't sound like he does, he said KAT is the best player and that Wiggins is the most talented. If he thought he was the KG he would think or say he was the most talented and best on the team. Every issue I have heard before he got to minny was about people not working as hard as him and him thinking and saying that's a problem.
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Jimmy Butler is cut from the same mold as KG.
Wherever he lands I hope he finds success.
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This story of the practice in Minny makes me like Jimmy Butler. I never really liked him before.
What a baller move.
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That organization is dysfunctional. From the owner/GM/coach and then even their players.
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So apparently Minny offered to trade Butler to Houston for Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker but Houston refused because they won't trade Tucker.
Are they ####ing insane?
They'd have a starting lineup of CP3, Harden, Butler, Capela, and Melo... they might actually beat the Warriors with that lineup. Am I missing something here?
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/10/10/jimmy-butler-update-minnesota-wanted-gordon-tucker-from-houston-and-were-shot-down/
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So apparently Minny offered to trade Butler to Houston for Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker but Houston refused because they won't trade Tucker.
Are they ####ing insane?
They'd have a starting lineup of CP3, Harden, Butler, Capela, and Melo... they might actually beat the Warriors with that lineup. Am I missing something here?
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/10/10/jimmy-butler-update-minnesota-wanted-gordon-tucker-from-houston-and-were-shot-down/
Wow. That’s crazy :o
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Minny wants someone to take G. Deng off their hands. What about Butler/Deng for Whiteside/Waiters/2019 pick?
Salaries match up, SG and C for SG and C. Miami does not have their 2021 pick, but they can still trade this years pick.
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Lol. Wolves cancelled practice today.
Looks like KAT and Wiggins aren't the only ones that can't match Butler's intensity. Looks like the entire organization is not prepared to fight and win.
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So apparently Minny offered to trade Butler to Houston for Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker but Houston refused because they won't trade Tucker.
Are they ####ing insane?
They'd have a starting lineup of CP3, Harden, Butler, Capela, and Melo... they might actually beat the Warriors with that lineup. Am I missing something here?
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/10/10/jimmy-butler-update-minnesota-wanted-gordon-tucker-from-houston-and-were-shot-down/
I don't see how Houston turns that down...
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So apparently Minny offered to trade Butler to Houston for Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker but Houston refused because they won't trade Tucker.
Are they ####ing insane?
They'd have a starting lineup of CP3, Harden, Butler, Capela, and Melo... they might actually beat the Warriors with that lineup. Am I missing something here?
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/10/10/jimmy-butler-update-minnesota-wanted-gordon-tucker-from-houston-and-were-shot-down/
I don't see how Houston turns that down...
I can understand Houston not doing that unless there is a sweetener. Gordon and Tucker were big time components of Houston's success last year. Tucker has started hitting threes at a high percentage, especially in the playoffs I believe, and is every bit the defender that Butler is. Gordon is a shooter, and pretty good defender too. Talent wise Butler has it on them but that's one of those trades a new contender can't make imo.
They have Paul and Harden, which has worked out great despite both needing the ball a lot. Butler needs the ball too. I wouldn't add that when you've got Tucker and Gordon not needing the ball but able to spot up from 3, unless something else in the deal is enticing...
Having Carmelo now only bolsters my point further...
Without the Paul injury I think Houston is last year's NBA champs...I must say, watching what Jimmy Butler's effect on Carmelo Anthony could be would be very interesting. I hope Tucker and Houston's general greatness will motivate Carmelo just the same..
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So apparently Minny offered to trade Butler to Houston for Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker but Houston refused because they won't trade Tucker.
Are they ####ing insane?
They'd have a starting lineup of CP3, Harden, Butler, Capela, and Melo... they might actually beat the Warriors with that lineup. Am I missing something here?
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/10/10/jimmy-butler-update-minnesota-wanted-gordon-tucker-from-houston-and-were-shot-down/
I don't see how Houston turns that down...
I can understand Houston not doing that unless there is a sweetener. Gordon and Tucker were big time components of Houston's success last year. Tucker has started hitting threes at a high percentage, especially in the playoffs I believe, and is every bit the defender that Butler is. Gordon is a shooter, and pretty good defender too. Talent wise Butler has it on them but that's one of those trades a new contender can't make imo.
They have Paul and Harden, which has worked out great despite both needing the ball a lot. Butler needs the ball too. I wouldn't add that when you've got Tucker and Gordon not needing the ball but able to spot up from 3, unless something else in the deal is enticing...
Having Carmelo now only bolsters my point further...
Maybe the Rockets are not interested in the baggage that Butlers carries with him.
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So apparently Minny offered to trade Butler to Houston for Eric Gordon and PJ Tucker but Houston refused because they won't trade Tucker.
Are they ####ing insane?
They'd have a starting lineup of CP3, Harden, Butler, Capela, and Melo... they might actually beat the Warriors with that lineup. Am I missing something here?
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/10/10/jimmy-butler-update-minnesota-wanted-gordon-tucker-from-houston-and-were-shot-down/
I don't see how Houston turns that down...
I can understand Houston not doing that unless there is a sweetener. Gordon and Tucker were big time components of Houston's success last year. Tucker has started hitting threes at a high percentage, especially in the playoffs I believe, and is every bit the defender that Butler is. Gordon is a shooter, and pretty good defender too. Talent wise Butler has it on them but that's one of those trades a new contender can't make imo.
They have Paul and Harden, which has worked out great despite both needing the ball a lot. Butler needs the ball too. I wouldn't add that when you've got Tucker and Gordon not needing the ball but able to spot up from 3, unless something else in the deal is enticing...
Having Carmelo now only bolsters my point further...
Maybe the Rockets are not interested in the baggage that Butlers carries with him.
Maybe you're right and it's a bout fit. Butler is the best player in the trade.
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geez what Houston thinking..Gordon and Tucker for Butler is a no-brainer..tucker just a role player, Gordon has injuries history..Butler could put Houston on top..only question be bench unit
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geez what Houston thinking..Gordon and Tucker for Butler is a no-brainer..tucker just a role player, Gordon has injuries history..Butler could put Houston on top..only question be bench unit
Yeah, if that's the trade with a pick thrown in, Houston should do it...
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geez what Houston thinking..Gordon and Tucker for Butler is a no-brainer..tucker just a role player, Gordon has injuries history..Butler could put Houston on top..only question be bench unit
I think you're underrating the Tucker/Gordon duo. Rewatch last year's playoff series with Golden State.
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geez what Houston thinking..Gordon and Tucker for Butler is a no-brainer..tucker just a role player, Gordon has injuries history..Butler could put Houston on top..only question be bench unit
It's like trying to trade Rozier and Smart for Jimmy Butler
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Well, if Houston does that trade they have a starting five of Paul, Harden, Butler, Anthony and Capella. Great sounding lineup but actually a lineup with 4 guys whose games are best with the ball in their hands.
Then of course you are stuck with this awful bench:
Brandon Knight
Marquis Chriss
Nene
Zhou Qi
Micheal Carter-Williams
Gerald Green
James Ennis
Gary Clark
Isaiah Hartenstein
Bruno Coboclo
Vince Edwards.
So though Houston gets the best player losing Tucker as a great role playing 3 and D guy out of the starting lineup and Gordon as their 6th man could seriously hurt their team chemistry.
Knight is always injured
Nene is a shell of his former self
Green is allergic to defense and very erratic
MCW has been awful since his rookie year
Edward's, Coboclo, Qi, Hadtenstein and Clark have little to no NBA experience
That leaves Chriss as the only possible good bench player.
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geez what Houston thinking..Gordon and Tucker for Butler is a no-brainer..tucker just a role player, Gordon has injuries history..Butler could put Houston on top..only question be bench unit
It's like trying to trade Rozier and Smart for Jimmy Butler
I'd do that.
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geez what Houston thinking..Gordon and Tucker for Butler is a no-brainer..tucker just a role player, Gordon has injuries history..Butler could put Houston on top..only question be bench unit
It's like trying to trade Rozier and Smart for Jimmy Butler
I'd do that.
The Celtics can't do this trade until Smart is trade eligible but I would do it.
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Timberwolves All-Star Jimmy Butler called a players-only meeting today, airing his feelings toward situation and management, per league sources. Butler expressed to players he would compete with them, as signs pointing to him staying with the franchise into the regular season.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1050454958280204294
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Timberwolves All-Star Jimmy Butler called a players-only meeting today, airing his feelings toward situation and management, per league sources. Butler expressed to players he would compete with them, as signs pointing to him staying with the franchise into the regular season.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1050454958280204294
This is amazing - some T'Wolves players are denying any players' meeting happened, followed by Butler going on the record to ESPN to "confirm" the meeting. And the best part is they canceled practice to avoid any more drama ;D
Butler's really working the media with this stuff here. Gonna try and just embarrass the franchise til they dump him, it looks like.
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geez what Houston thinking..Gordon and Tucker for Butler is a no-brainer..tucker just a role player, Gordon has injuries history..Butler could put Houston on top..only question be bench unit
It's like trying to trade Rozier and Smart for Jimmy Butler
I'd do that.
I probably would like that deal also, but we would have to make follow up trades with no backup shooting guard or point guard?
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I wonder if Houston would have made that deal if they hadn't already acquired Carmelo. Having 3 starters that need the ball to be effective is one thing, but adding a fourth would be a stretch.
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geez what Houston thinking..Gordon and Tucker for Butler is a no-brainer..tucker just a role player, Gordon has injuries history..Butler could put Houston on top..only question be bench unit
It's like trying to trade Rozier and Smart for Jimmy Butler
I'd do that.
I probably would like that deal also, but we would have to make follow up trades with no backup shooting guard or point guard?
That's what Perry Dozier and Brad Wanamaker are for ;D
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Timberwolves All-Star Jimmy Butler called a players-only meeting today, airing his feelings toward situation and management, per league sources. Butler expressed to players he would compete with them, as signs pointing to him staying with the franchise into the regular season.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1050454958280204294
This is amazing - some T'Wolves players are denying any players' meeting happened, followed by Butler going on the record to ESPN to "confirm" the meeting. And the best part is they canceled practice to avoid any more drama ;D
Butler's really working the media with this stuff here. Gonna try and just embarrass the franchise til they dump him, it looks like.
meeting was supposedly today, practice was yesterday
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one of his interviews i saw was pretty incoherent
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one of his interviews i saw was pretty incoherent
so you are saying he is a regular poster here? ;D
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Timberwolves All-Star Jimmy Butler called a players-only meeting today, airing his feelings toward situation and management, per league sources. Butler expressed to players he would compete with them, as signs pointing to him staying with the franchise into the regular season.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1050454958280204294
This is amazing - some T'Wolves players are denying any players' meeting happened, followed by Butler going on the record to ESPN to "confirm" the meeting. And the best part is they canceled practice to avoid any more drama ;D
Butler's really working the media with this stuff here. Gonna try and just embarrass the franchise til they dump him, it looks like.
meeting was supposedly today, practice was yesterday
I know. They canceled today's practice to avoid another embarrassing story and instead they got Schrodinger's player meeting.
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Pat Riley Hung Up On Tom Thibodeau When Asked For More Assets
The Minnesota Timberwolves and Miami Heat had basically agreed to a trade of Jimmy Butler for Josh Richardson, Dion Waiters and a protected first round pick.
The deal progressed to point of the two teams exchanging medical information, but Tom Thibodeau called the Heat back and asked for additional assets.
"Thibs called back and wanted more picks," said Jorge Sedano. "And Pat Riley, literally, I was told, called him a mother-bleeper and hung up the phone."
http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=24960755
;D ;D lol
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Pat Riley Hung Up On Tom Thibodeau When Asked For More Assets
The Minnesota Timberwolves and Miami Heat had basically agreed to a trade of Jimmy Butler for Josh Richardson, Dion Waiters and a protected first round pick.
The deal progressed to point of the two teams exchanging medical information, but Tom Thibodeau called the Heat back and asked for additional assets.
"Thibs called back and wanted more picks," said Jorge Sedano. "And Pat Riley, literally, I was told, called him a mother-bleeper and hung up the phone."
http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=24960755
;D ;D lol
Thibs was trying to kill the trade and it worked.
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Pat Riley Hung Up On Tom Thibodeau When Asked For More Assets
The Minnesota Timberwolves and Miami Heat had basically agreed to a trade of Jimmy Butler for Josh Richardson, Dion Waiters and a protected first round pick.
The deal progressed to point of the two teams exchanging medical information, but Tom Thibodeau called the Heat back and asked for additional assets.
"Thibs called back and wanted more picks," said Jorge Sedano. "And Pat Riley, literally, I was told, called him a mother-bleeper and hung up the phone."
http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=24960755
;D ;D lol
Thibs was trying to kill the trade and it worked.
That is a downright awful trade for the Wolves though and it should have never gotten to the nearing completion point, especially without them unloading Dieng's contract in the trade. I mean the Heat have been trying to dump Waiters all off-season with no luck, assuming the protections are typical, that pick isn't worth much, which just leaves Josh Richardson, who is a nice player, but certainly nothing to write home about. If that is all Butler is going to get the Wolves, without unloading Dieng, then the Wolves are better off just playing out the season with Butler and seeing what happens (i.e. waiting until the point in the season when new free agent signings can be traded and gauging value and the team situation at that time).
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Sounds like Riley was trying to bully Thibs and it didn't work. I'd like to know who leaked this. Maybe Riley hates Thibs because he used to be a C! Yes, stupid trade for Minn.
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I got a good laugh from this.
Basketball Rehab
@BasketballRehab
Breaking News The Minnesota Timberwolves have traded SG/SF Jimmy Butler to the Seattle Storm of the WNBA. The Storm commented by saying they felt their locker room needed a diva.
3:49 PM - 11 Oct 2018
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Sounds like Riley was trying to bully Thibs and it didn't work. I'd like to know who leaked this. Maybe Riley hates Thibs because he used to be a C! Yes, stupid trade for Minn.
Or they had a framework and Thibs tried to change it at the last minute. A lot of people would get ticked off at that.
No way of knowing who leaked it but let's just say stuff always seems to leak when Miami's involved, even when it's with a notoriously low-leak organization like us.
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Sounds like Riley was trying to bully Thibs and it didn't work. I'd like to know who leaked this. Maybe Riley hates Thibs because he used to be a C! Yes, stupid trade for Minn.
Sounds like the opposite. If you play fantasy football, agree on a trade with someone through text, and when you send the trade over, they counter for slightly more, doesn't that tick you off?
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KG:
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/10/12/kevin-garnett-on-timberwolves-its-a-s-storm-up-there/
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Heat confirm that Pat Riley addressed players about Jimmy Butler trade rumors. Basically said team is "pulling the plug" for now but that's not to say something won't happen later.
https://twitter.com/shandelrich/status/1053072583879548929?s=21
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Story posting soon: The Houston Rockets are making a renewed bid to acquire Minnesota All-Star Jimmy Butler, including four future first-round draft picks in their most recent trade offer, league sources tell ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1055582497377943552?s=21
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Story posting soon: The Houston Rockets are making a renewed bid to acquire Minnesota All-Star Jimmy Butler, including four future first-round draft picks in their most recent trade offer, league sources tell ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1055582497377943552?s=21
He's a guy they definitely should target
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wow thats alot for a one year rental
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You know last years WCF must really itch at Morey lol
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wow thats alot for a one year rental
If they won a ring with it I think their fans would be fine.
Starting lineup of CP3-Harden-Butler-Tucker-Capela with Melo off the bench could be fun
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wow thats alot for a one year rental
If they won a ring with it I think their fans would be fine.
Starting lineup of CP3-Harden-Butler-Tucker-Capela with Melo off the bench could be fun
That is an excellent two-way squad.
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Story posting soon: The Houston Rockets are making a renewed bid to acquire Minnesota All-Star Jimmy Butler, including four future first-round draft picks in their most recent trade offer, league sources tell ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1055582497377943552?s=21
And the ghost of Billy King is alive and well...4 future first round picks for a one year rental?!?!
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Story posting soon: The Houston Rockets are making a renewed bid to acquire Minnesota All-Star Jimmy Butler, including four future first-round draft picks in their most recent trade offer, league sources tell ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1055582497377943552?s=21
And the ghost of Billy King is alive and well...4 future first round picks for a one year rental?!?!
I would take that if I was Minnesota. The later picks could work out well.
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Story posting soon: The Houston Rockets are making a renewed bid to acquire Minnesota All-Star Jimmy Butler, including four future first-round draft picks in their most recent trade offer, league sources tell ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1055582497377943552?s=21
And the ghost of Billy King is alive and well...4 future first round picks for a one year rental?!?!
I would take that if I was Minnesota. The later picks could work out well.
There would have to be at least 1 probable top pick involved...
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Story posting soon: The Houston Rockets are making a renewed bid to acquire Minnesota All-Star Jimmy Butler, including four future first-round draft picks in their most recent trade offer, league sources tell ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1055582497377943552?s=21
And the ghost of Billy King is alive and well...4 future first round picks for a one year rental?!?!
I would take that if I was Minnesota. The later picks could work out well.
There would have to be at least 1 probable top pick involved...
Trying to avoid sending Tucker.
Gordon, Nene, and 4 picks.
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Story posting soon: The Houston Rockets are making a renewed bid to acquire Minnesota All-Star Jimmy Butler, including four future first-round draft picks in their most recent trade offer, league sources tell ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1055582497377943552?s=21
And the ghost of Billy King is alive and well...4 future first round picks for a one year rental?!?!
I would take that if I was Minnesota. The later picks could work out well.
There would have to be at least 1 probable top pick involved...
Unprotected picks 3, 5, and 7 years down the line could be nice assets.
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Story posting soon: The Houston Rockets are making a renewed bid to acquire Minnesota All-Star Jimmy Butler, including four future first-round draft picks in their most recent trade offer, league sources tell ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1055582497377943552?s=21
And the ghost of Billy King is alive and well...4 future first round picks for a one year rental?!?!
I would take that if I was Minnesota. The later picks could work out well.
There would have to be at least 1 probable top pick involved...
Trying to avoid sending Tucker.
Gordon, Nene, and 4 picks.
If they wait until next week, Knight + Chriss + picks gets them there.
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Story posting soon: The Houston Rockets are making a renewed bid to acquire Minnesota All-Star Jimmy Butler, including four future first-round draft picks in their most recent trade offer, league sources tell ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1055582497377943552?s=21
And the ghost of Billy King is alive and well...4 future first round picks for a one year rental?!?!
I would take that if I was Minnesota. The later picks could work out well.
There would have to be at least 1 probable top pick involved...
Trying to avoid sending Tucker.
Gordon, Nene, and 4 picks.
If they wait until next week, Knight + Chriss + picks gets them there.
I don't think they can trade either player in conjunction with another player, because they recently received them while they were over the cap. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Story posting soon: The Houston Rockets are making a renewed bid to acquire Minnesota All-Star Jimmy Butler, including four future first-round draft picks in their most recent trade offer, league sources tell ESPN.
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1055582497377943552?s=21
And the ghost of Billy King is alive and well...4 future first round picks for a one year rental?!?!
I would take that if I was Minnesota. The later picks could work out well.
There would have to be at least 1 probable top pick involved...
Trying to avoid sending Tucker.
Gordon, Nene, and 4 picks.
If they wait until next week, Knight + Chriss + picks gets them there.
I don't think they can trade either player in conjunction with another player, because they recently received them while they were over the cap. Correct me if I'm wrong.
They can’t be traded with other players (aggregated) for 60 days from the original trade. That’s October 31.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25083858/houston-rockets-offer-wolves-four-first-round-draft-picks-jimmy-butler
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25083858/houston-rockets-offer-wolves-four-first-round-draft-picks-jimmy-butler
That sounds good but for late 1st round picks isn't that big of a deal...
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25083858/houston-rockets-offer-wolves-four-first-round-draft-picks-jimmy-butler
That sounds good but for late 1st round picks isn't that big of a deal...
Could turn out like the Brooklyn trade though, if Houston botches it
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25083858/houston-rockets-offer-wolves-four-first-round-draft-picks-jimmy-butler
That sounds good but for late 1st round picks isn't that big of a deal...
That is very good depending on the protections. Good chance Butler doesn't even re-sign with Houston. How good is Houston going to be in 2023, 2025 or even 2021 when Paul will be 36 and Harden will be 32? They don't have any young talent besides Capela. Even the 2019 pick could be better than expected. Paul's missed 20+ games the past two seasons.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25083858/houston-rockets-offer-wolves-four-first-round-draft-picks-jimmy-butler
That sounds good but for late 1st round picks isn't that big of a deal...
That is very good depending on the protections. Good chance Butler doesn't even re-sign with Houston. How good is Houston going to be in 2023, 2025 or even 2021 when Paul will be 36 and Harden will be 32? They don't have any young talent besides Capela. Even the 2019 pick could be better than expected. Paul's missed 20+ games the past two seasons.
That CP3 contract is going to very quickly be the worst one in the NBA I reckon
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Brown was arguably a top 5-7 player of any team in the playoffs
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25083858/houston-rockets-offer-wolves-four-first-round-draft-picks-jimmy-butler
That sounds good but for late 1st round picks isn't that big of a deal...
That is very good depending on the protections. Good chance Butler doesn't even re-sign with Houston. How good is Houston going to be in 2023, 2025 or even 2021 when Paul will be 36 and Harden will be 32? They don't have any young talent besides Capela. Even the 2019 pick could be better than expected. Paul's missed 20+ games the past two seasons.
That CP3 contract is going to very quickly be the worst one in the NBA I reckon
Paying 36 year old players not named Lebron 40M+ isn't a good idea. The Wall contract will probably be the worst.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25083858/houston-rockets-offer-wolves-four-first-round-draft-picks-jimmy-butler
That sounds good but for late 1st round picks isn't that big of a deal...
That is very good depending on the protections. Good chance Butler doesn't even re-sign with Houston. How good is Houston going to be in 2023, 2025 or even 2021 when Paul will be 36 and Harden will be 32? They don't have any young talent besides Capela. Even the 2019 pick could be better than expected. Paul's missed 20+ games the past two seasons.
That CP3 contract is going to very quickly be the worst one in the NBA I reckon
Paying 36 year old players not named Lebron 40M+ isn't a good idea. The Wall contract will probably be the worst.
Oh yeah, jeesh, forgot how insane Wall's contract is. $47.6m for 32-33 year old John Wall is insanity
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(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43720294_2476197339075442_6177241768648507392_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=34ddff598a108a574645d66cbdc04557&oe=5C4F9660)
???
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(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43720294_2476197339075442_6177241768648507392_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=34ddff598a108a574645d66cbdc04557&oe=5C4F9660)
???
valid point but getting Butler is the only solution for the Rockets since the Championship is their target. They are not going anywhere with this core and not getting any younger too (yes CP i am talking about you) . Losing Ariza and Moute has really hurt them
It is very risky but they don't have any other way of improving the team
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(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/43720294_2476197339075442_6177241768648507392_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=34ddff598a108a574645d66cbdc04557&oe=5C4F9660)
???
valid point but getting Butler is the only solution for the Rockets since the Championship is their target. They are not going anywhere with this core and not getting any younger too (yes CP i am talking about you) . Losing Ariza and Moute has really hurt them
It is very risky but they don't have any other way of improving the team
Agree with this. A trade like this for Butler gives them a chance at a championship. A chance they don't have with the inefficient choking chucker Gordon.
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Jimmy Butler and Mike D'Antoni do not seem like a good fit to me. Butler does not play offensively in a way that works for D'Antoni's offense. Throw in Carmelo Anthony on top of that and the Rockets offense will struggle to have the chemistry / cohesion of previous years.
Two guys (Harden, CP3) who want to play D'Antoni ball.
Two guys (Butler, Melo) who do not want to play D'Antoni ball.
Only 1 ball. 4 guys who need it. None who will play happily / effectively without it.
All guys who will break the offense to get their touches / shots.
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Jimmy Butler and Mike D'Antoni do not seem like a good fit to me. Butler does not play offensively in a way that works for D'Antoni's offense. Throw in Carmelo Anthony on top of that and the Rockets offense will struggle to have the chemistry / cohesion of previous years.
Two guys (Harden, CP3) who want to play D'Antoni ball.
Two guys (Butler, Melo) who do not want to play D'Antoni ball.
Only 1 ball. 4 guys who need it. None who will play happily / effectively without it.
All guys who will break the offense to get their touches / shots.
What Carmelo wants at this point is fairly irrelevant. He is a bench player and not part of their future. They can cut him if he becomes an issue.
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Miami has re-engaged the Wolves after the report that the Rockets put 4 firsts on the table. Minnesota apparently doesn't want to trade Butler to a team in the West and hasn't really engaged Houston, though that may be in part because they likely can't do a trade until next week anyway (when they can include Knight and Chriss).
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Jimmy Butler and Mike D'Antoni do not seem like a good fit to me. Butler does not play offensively in a way that works for D'Antoni's offense. Throw in Carmelo Anthony on top of that and the Rockets offense will struggle to have the chemistry / cohesion of previous years.
Two guys (Harden, CP3) who want to play D'Antoni ball.
Two guys (Butler, Melo) who do not want to play D'Antoni ball.
Only 1 ball. 4 guys who need it. None who will play happily / effectively without it.
All guys who will break the offense to get their touches / shots.
Morey laughs at chemistry and fit. Just go get the best guy he says ::)
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Miami has re-engaged the Wolves after the report that the Rockets put 4 firsts on the table. Minnesota apparently doesn't want to trade Butler to a team in the West and hasn't really engaged Houston, though that may be in part because they likely can't do a trade until next week anyway (when they can include Knight and Chriss).
Where does Miami rank in east with Butler?
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Miami has re-engaged the Wolves after the report that the Rockets put 4 firsts on the table. Minnesota apparently doesn't want to trade Butler to a team in the West and hasn't really engaged Houston, though that may be in part because they likely can't do a trade until next week anyway (when they can include Knight and Chriss).
Where does Miami rank in east with Butler?
Depends a lot on what they give up
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My guess is that Minnesota doesnt want to trade him to an Western Conference team
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Miami has re-engaged the Wolves after the report that the Rockets put 4 firsts on the table. Minnesota apparently doesn't want to trade Butler to a team in the West and hasn't really engaged Houston, though that may be in part because they likely can't do a trade until next week anyway (when they can include Knight and Chriss).
Due to the restriction on trading consecutive year picks, it would have to be picks in 2019, 2021, 2023 and 2025.
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though i may incorrect, i believe teams are not allowed to trade draft picks more than 5 years out.
so the deal might have resembled the boston-brooklyn deal and had first round swaps involved. or, maybe they have more than one pick in one of those years. then, trading would be all right.
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though i may incorrect, i believe teams are not allowed to trade draft picks more than 5 years out.
so the deal might have resembled the boston-brooklyn deal and had first round swaps involved. or, maybe they have more than one pick in one of those years. then, trading would be all right.
it is 7 years, so unless a team has other picks that can be traded they could only trade at most 4 picks (it may only be 3 if they can't trade the current year). So for Houston the picks are 2019, 2021, 2023, and 2025. If any of the picks have protections that end up not transferring, then the 2025 pick would have to become a 2nd rounder since it has to convey that year (i.e. 7 years out).
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though i may incorrect, i believe teams are not allowed to trade draft picks more than 5 years out.
so the deal might have resembled the boston-brooklyn deal and had first round swaps involved. or, maybe they have more than one pick in one of those years. then, trading would be all right.
it is 7 years, so unless a team has other picks that can be traded they could only trade at most 4 picks (it may only be 3 if they can't trade the current year). So for Houston the picks are 2019, 2021, 2023, and 2025. If any of the picks have protections that end up not transferring, then the 2025 pick would have to become a 2nd rounder since it has to convey that year (i.e. 7 years out).
thanks for the information and a tp for your vast knowledge of the nba. ;D
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Jimmy Butler is taking next step in six-week-long process aimed at getting the All-Star out of Minnesota by sitting tonight against Utah, and could lead to extended absence for Butler, league sources tell me and @JonKrawczynski.
https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1057673096621146112?s=21
Butler started contemplating not playing tonight on Tuesday, and the final decision was made Wednesday morning, sources tell me and @JonKrawczynski. Timberwolves termed it "general soreness and precautionary rest,” but Butler informed Tom Thibodeau of his decision.
https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1057673222089515009?s=21
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Wow!! Hate see athletes like Butler, Kawhi Leonard, LeVeon Bell, etc. act like this..i know its a business also but they get pay millions to play a SPORT..
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I get asking for a trade, but sitting games when your healthy to force a trade is violation of his contract and they should refuse to pay him until he plays.
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Wow!! Hate see athletes like Butler, Kawhi Leonard, LeVeon Bell, etc. act like this..i know its a business also but they get pay millions to play a SPORT..
Yep, sounds like Kawhi situation 2.0
Bell’s different because they’ve franchise tagged him twice and allegedly lowballed him in extension talks
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I really don't like it when people say athletes are silly when they sit out in these situations because they get paid to play a sport.
These athletes, especially in the case of Jimmy Butler, are probably more dedicated to their craft than most fans are to theirs. Butler's diet, sleeping habits, workout routine, etc. go far beyond a normal 8-10 hour a day, 6 day a week type job. This is a life-style.
If he prefers to go elsewhere, and can use the leverage he does have to get there, who are we to question the decisions of his life? Who are we to denigrate his decisions because his craft is a game, or entertainment.
It stinks for the Wolves. It also stinks for NBA fans that might want to see Butler play. But this decision could mean a 50-100 million dollar difference in his next contract. That doesn't include the marketing bonuses that come from playing in certain markets or on a contending team. If he tore his achilles next game, he could miss all of that.
I respect a man that takes strong action, even if he might get maligned for it. It is definitely in his best interest.
Some might say, "But I don't respect a man that doesn't fulfill his contract." That is true, but then again, if he signed a contract understanding the fines that would come his way if he didn't fulfill that contract, then I'd argue he can still be a man of his word by paying the fines while he sits out and asks for a trade.
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I really don't like it when people say athletes are silly when they sit out in these situations because they get paid to play a sport.
These athletes, especially in the case of Jimmy Butler, are probably more dedicated to their craft than most fans are to theirs. Butler's diet, sleeping habits, workout routine, etc. go far beyond a normal 8-10 hour a day, 6 day a week type job. This is a life-style.
If he prefers to go elsewhere, and can use the leverage he does have to get there, who are we to question the decisions of his life? Who are we to denigrate his decisions because his craft is a game, or entertainment.
It stinks for the Wolves. It also stinks for NBA fans that might want to see Butler play. But this decision could mean a 50-100 million dollar difference in his next contract. That doesn't include the marketing bonuses that come from playing in certain markets or on a contending team. If he tore his achilles next game, he could miss all of that.
I respect a man that takes strong action, even if he might get maligned for it. It is definitely in his best interest.
Some might say, "But I don't respect a man that doesn't fulfill his contract." That is true, but then again, if he signed a contract understanding the fines that would come his way if he didn't fulfill that contract, then I'd argue he can still be a man of his word by paying the fines while he sits out and asks for a trade.
Silly , no, but wrong , yes. Butler signed a contract to work for the Twolves. If he refuses to play, he’s not living up to his end of the deal and should not be paid. Nowhere in the contract does it state that the Twolves have to provide him with a supporting cast
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I really don't like it when people say athletes are silly when they sit out in these situations because they get paid to play a sport.
These athletes, especially in the case of Jimmy Butler, are probably more dedicated to their craft than most fans are to theirs. Butler's diet, sleeping habits, workout routine, etc. go far beyond a normal 8-10 hour a day, 6 day a week type job. This is a life-style.
If he prefers to go elsewhere, and can use the leverage he does have to get there, who are we to question the decisions of his life? Who are we to denigrate his decisions because his craft is a game, or entertainment.
It stinks for the Wolves. It also stinks for NBA fans that might want to see Butler play. But this decision could mean a 50-100 million dollar difference in his next contract. That doesn't include the marketing bonuses that come from playing in certain markets or on a contending team. If he tore his achilles next game, he could miss all of that.
I respect a man that takes strong action, even if he might get maligned for it. It is definitely in his best interest.
Some might say, "But I don't respect a man that doesn't fulfill his contract." That is true, but then again, if he signed a contract understanding the fines that would come his way if he didn't fulfill that contract, then I'd argue he can still be a man of his word by paying the fines while he sits out and asks for a trade.
Silly , no, but wrong , yes. Butler signed a contract to work for the Twolves. If he refuses to play, he’s not living up to his end of the deal and should not be paid. Nowhere in the contract does it state that the Twolves have to provide him with a supporting cast
I think the fines are almost all salary for the game.
But KLeonard claimed injury and got paid for sitting out. Looks like Butler is contemplating the same route. That's shady.
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I really don't like it when people say athletes are silly when they sit out in these situations because they get paid to play a sport.
These athletes, especially in the case of Jimmy Butler, are probably more dedicated to their craft than most fans are to theirs. Butler's diet, sleeping habits, workout routine, etc. go far beyond a normal 8-10 hour a day, 6 day a week type job. This is a life-style.
If he prefers to go elsewhere, and can use the leverage he does have to get there, who are we to question the decisions of his life? Who are we to denigrate his decisions because his craft is a game, or entertainment.
It stinks for the Wolves. It also stinks for NBA fans that might want to see Butler play. But this decision could mean a 50-100 million dollar difference in his next contract. That doesn't include the marketing bonuses that come from playing in certain markets or on a contending team. If he tore his achilles next game, he could miss all of that.
I respect a man that takes strong action, even if he might get maligned for it. It is definitely in his best interest.
Some might say, "But I don't respect a man that doesn't fulfill his contract." That is true, but then again, if he signed a contract understanding the fines that would come his way if he didn't fulfill that contract, then I'd argue he can still be a man of his word by paying the fines while he sits out and asks for a trade.
Silly , no, but wrong , yes. Butler signed a contract to work for the Twolves. If he refuses to play, he’s not living up to his end of the deal and should not be paid. Nowhere in the contract does it state that the Twolves have to provide him with a supporting cast
To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
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To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
That contract was traded, so he should honor it.
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To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
That contract was traded, so he should honor it.
eh. I don't buy that argument at all. A player should absolutely be allowed to choose where he wants to play. If he doesn't want to play he shouldn't be forced to. He shouldn't be paid of course if he doesn't play, but he absolutely shouldn't be forced to honor a contract with a team he didn't sign up to play for.
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To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
That contract was traded, so he should honor it.
eh. I don't buy that argument at all. A player should absolutely be allowed to choose where he wants to play. If he doesn't want to play he shouldn't be forced to. He shouldn't be paid of course if he doesn't play, but he absolutely shouldn't be forced to honor a contract with a team he didn't sign up to play for.
that's crap. that mentality would put an end to any trades between franchises.
He's getting paid very handsomely to play a game for crying out loud. if he hates playing in Minnesota that much, let him quit the league and go flip burgers/work a real job and see how fast he warms up to playing in Minny then.
the truth of the matter is he is an employee of the league with a modicum of choice in where he gets to 'work' when he signs a contract. if he wants to avoid being a trade chip, he can sign shorter contracts or negotiate a no-trade clause in his deal.
no sympathy whatsoever for overpaid crybabies.
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To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
That contract was traded, so he should honor it.
eh. I don't buy that argument at all. A player should absolutely be allowed to choose where he wants to play. If he doesn't want to play he shouldn't be forced to. He shouldn't be paid of course if he doesn't play, but he absolutely shouldn't be forced to honor a contract with a team he didn't sign up to play for.
that's crap. that mentality would put an end to any trades between franchises.
He's getting paid very handsomely to play a game for crying out loud. if he hates playing in Minnesota that much, let him quit the league and go flip burgers/work a real job and see how fast he warms up to playing in Minny then.
the truth of the matter is he is an employee of the league with a modicum of choice in where he gets to 'work' when he signs a contract. if he wants to avoid being a trade chip, he can sign shorter contracts or negotiate a no-trade clause in his deal.
no sympathy whatsoever for overpaid crybabies.
this is just silly. you should absolutely get to choose where you work and no one should be forced to work some place they don't want to work. Just imagine that in your own life and your own profession. If he wants to sit out and not get paid, more power to him. Again, he isn't getting paid if he just decides not to show up. If he wants to give up millions of dollars, that should be his right. He never choose to work in Minnesota and he absolutely shouldn't be forced to do so now.
That said, I don't think he just sat out to force a trade. I think he needs to rest his wrist which he had offseason surgery on.
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To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
That contract was traded, so he should honor it.
eh. I don't buy that argument at all. A player should absolutely be allowed to choose where he wants to play. If he doesn't want to play he shouldn't be forced to. He shouldn't be paid of course if he doesn't play, but he absolutely shouldn't be forced to honor a contract with a team he didn't sign up to play for.
that's crap. that mentality would put an end to any trades between franchises.
He's getting paid very handsomely to play a game for crying out loud. if he hates playing in Minnesota that much, let him quit the league and go flip burgers/work a real job and see how fast he warms up to playing in Minny then.
the truth of the matter is he is an employee of the league with a modicum of choice in where he gets to 'work' when he signs a contract. if he wants to avoid being a trade chip, he can sign shorter contracts or negotiate a no-trade clause in his deal.
no sympathy whatsoever for overpaid crybabies.
this is just silly. you should absolutely get to choose where you work and no one should be forced to work some place they don't want to work. Just imagine that in your own life and your own profession. If he wants to sit out and not get paid, more power to him. Again, he isn't getting paid if he just decides not to show up. If he wants to give up millions of dollars, that should be his right. He never choose to work in Minnesota and he absolutely shouldn't be forced to do so now.
That said, I don't think he just sat out to force a trade. I think he needs to rest his wrist which he had offseason surgery on.
you must be one of those fortunate people who's employers don't change locations. I'm not. I do have the option to find another employer but there needs to be one in a location I like that has a job opening that will compensate me fairly.
no sympathy for Butler. If Minny bothers him that much I'll gladly change jobs and financial compensation with him. I can't dunk but I'll gladly give it my all in Minny
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So many ppl are homeless, sick or having trouble making it day to day..so these athletes make millions of dollars to play a game, they should be very thankful..then some act like kids and dont want to play for a certain team, hope they never play again
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To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
That contract was traded, so he should honor it.
eh. I don't buy that argument at all. A player should absolutely be allowed to choose where he wants to play. If he doesn't want to play he shouldn't be forced to. He shouldn't be paid of course if he doesn't play, but he absolutely shouldn't be forced to honor a contract with a team he didn't sign up to play for.
that's crap. that mentality would put an end to any trades between franchises.
He's getting paid very handsomely to play a game for crying out loud. if he hates playing in Minnesota that much, let him quit the league and go flip burgers/work a real job and see how fast he warms up to playing in Minny then.
the truth of the matter is he is an employee of the league with a modicum of choice in where he gets to 'work' when he signs a contract. if he wants to avoid being a trade chip, he can sign shorter contracts or negotiate a no-trade clause in his deal.
no sympathy whatsoever for overpaid crybabies.
this is just silly. you should absolutely get to choose where you work and no one should be forced to work some place they don't want to work. Just imagine that in your own life and your own profession. If he wants to sit out and not get paid, more power to him. Again, he isn't getting paid if he just decides not to show up. If he wants to give up millions of dollars, that should be his right. He never choose to work in Minnesota and he absolutely shouldn't be forced to do so now.
That said, I don't think he just sat out to force a trade. I think he needs to rest his wrist which he had offseason surgery on.
you must be one of those fortunate people who's employers don't change locations. I'm not. I do have the option to find another employer but there needs to be one in a location I like that has a job opening that will compensate me fairly.
no sympathy for Butler. If Minny bothers him that much I'll gladly change jobs and financial compensation with him. I can't dunk but I'll gladly give it my all in Minny
I've actually been transferred by an employer. It sucks, but you have to make the decision that works for you. For me, transferring was the right call, but that was of course the same employer. I knew who I was working for, what it was like, etc. I've never been forced to switch employers or cities through no control of my own, and I would be surprised if anyone in here did as that really is something unique to professional sports. You always have a choice on where to work, except to you if you are a professional athlete. They apparently always have to show up and work even if their whole life is thrown upside down through no fault of their own. That seems pretty communist to me and I prefer a free society.
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To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
That contract was traded, so he should honor it.
eh. I don't buy that argument at all. A player should absolutely be allowed to choose where he wants to play. If he doesn't want to play he shouldn't be forced to. He shouldn't be paid of course if he doesn't play, but he absolutely shouldn't be forced to honor a contract with a team he didn't sign up to play for.
that's crap. that mentality would put an end to any trades between franchises.
He's getting paid very handsomely to play a game for crying out loud. if he hates playing in Minnesota that much, let him quit the league and go flip burgers/work a real job and see how fast he warms up to playing in Minny then.
the truth of the matter is he is an employee of the league with a modicum of choice in where he gets to 'work' when he signs a contract. if he wants to avoid being a trade chip, he can sign shorter contracts or negotiate a no-trade clause in his deal.
no sympathy whatsoever for overpaid crybabies.
this is just silly. you should absolutely get to choose where you work and no one should be forced to work some place they don't want to work. Just imagine that in your own life and your own profession. If he wants to sit out and not get paid, more power to him. Again, he isn't getting paid if he just decides not to show up. If he wants to give up millions of dollars, that should be his right. He never choose to work in Minnesota and he absolutely shouldn't be forced to do so now.
That said, I don't think he just sat out to force a trade. I think he needs to rest his wrist which he had offseason surgery on.
you must be one of those fortunate people who's employers don't change locations. I'm not. I do have the option to find another employer but there needs to be one in a location I like that has a job opening that will compensate me fairly.
no sympathy for Butler. If Minny bothers him that much I'll gladly change jobs and financial compensation with him. I can't dunk but I'll gladly give it my all in Minny
I've actually been transferred by an employer. It sucks, but you have to make the decision that works for you. For me, transferring was the right call, but that was of course the same employer. I knew who I was working for, what it was like, etc. I've never been forced to switch employers or cities through no control of my own, and I would be surprised if anyone in here did as that really is something unique to professional sports. You always have a choice on where to work, except to you if you are a professional athlete. They apparently always have to show up and work even if their whole life is thrown upside down through no fault of their own. That seems pretty communist to me and I prefer a free society.
Not at all. He signed a contract. Minny can actually legally fire him if he doesn't show up for work. They are being lenient by only docking his pay for the no-show day.
Many of us are employees-at-will, no contract. I'd like to hear from someone who signed a contract for their current job.
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Always been a Butler fan but really wish he would just suck it up & play.
It's a bad look for him.
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To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
That contract was traded, so he should honor it.
eh. I don't buy that argument at all. A player should absolutely be allowed to choose where he wants to play. If he doesn't want to play he shouldn't be forced to. He shouldn't be paid of course if he doesn't play, but he absolutely shouldn't be forced to honor a contract with a team he didn't sign up to play for.
that's crap. that mentality would put an end to any trades between franchises.
He's getting paid very handsomely to play a game for crying out loud. if he hates playing in Minnesota that much, let him quit the league and go flip burgers/work a real job and see how fast he warms up to playing in Minny then.
the truth of the matter is he is an employee of the league with a modicum of choice in where he gets to 'work' when he signs a contract. if he wants to avoid being a trade chip, he can sign shorter contracts or negotiate a no-trade clause in his deal.
no sympathy whatsoever for overpaid crybabies.
this is just silly. you should absolutely get to choose where you work and no one should be forced to work some place they don't want to work. Just imagine that in your own life and your own profession. If he wants to sit out and not get paid, more power to him. Again, he isn't getting paid if he just decides not to show up. If he wants to give up millions of dollars, that should be his right. He never choose to work in Minnesota and he absolutely shouldn't be forced to do so now.
That said, I don't think he just sat out to force a trade. I think he needs to rest his wrist which he had offseason surgery on.
you must be one of those fortunate people who's employers don't change locations. I'm not. I do have the option to find another employer but there needs to be one in a location I like that has a job opening that will compensate me fairly.
no sympathy for Butler. If Minny bothers him that much I'll gladly change jobs and financial compensation with him. I can't dunk but I'll gladly give it my all in Minny
I've actually been transferred by an employer. It sucks, but you have to make the decision that works for you. For me, transferring was the right call, but that was of course the same employer. I knew who I was working for, what it was like, etc. I've never been forced to switch employers or cities through no control of my own, and I would be surprised if anyone in here did as that really is something unique to professional sports. You always have a choice on where to work, except to you if you are a professional athlete. They apparently always have to show up and work even if their whole life is thrown upside down through no fault of their own. That seems pretty communist to me and I prefer a free society.
A) don't sign with the nba
B) sign a shorter contract
C) play
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To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
That contract was traded, so he should honor it.
eh. I don't buy that argument at all. A player should absolutely be allowed to choose where he wants to play. If he doesn't want to play he shouldn't be forced to. He shouldn't be paid of course if he doesn't play, but he absolutely shouldn't be forced to honor a contract with a team he didn't sign up to play for.
that's crap. that mentality would put an end to any trades between franchises.
He's getting paid very handsomely to play a game for crying out loud. if he hates playing in Minnesota that much, let him quit the league and go flip burgers/work a real job and see how fast he warms up to playing in Minny then.
the truth of the matter is he is an employee of the league with a modicum of choice in where he gets to 'work' when he signs a contract. if he wants to avoid being a trade chip, he can sign shorter contracts or negotiate a no-trade clause in his deal.
no sympathy whatsoever for overpaid crybabies.
this is just silly. you should absolutely get to choose where you work and no one should be forced to work some place they don't want to work. Just imagine that in your own life and your own profession. If he wants to sit out and not get paid, more power to him. Again, he isn't getting paid if he just decides not to show up. If he wants to give up millions of dollars, that should be his right. He never choose to work in Minnesota and he absolutely shouldn't be forced to do so now.
That said, I don't think he just sat out to force a trade. I think he needs to rest his wrist which he had offseason surgery on.
you must be one of those fortunate people who's employers don't change locations. I'm not. I do have the option to find another employer but there needs to be one in a location I like that has a job opening that will compensate me fairly.
no sympathy for Butler. If Minny bothers him that much I'll gladly change jobs and financial compensation with him. I can't dunk but I'll gladly give it my all in Minny
I've actually been transferred by an employer. It sucks, but you have to make the decision that works for you. For me, transferring was the right call, but that was of course the same employer. I knew who I was working for, what it was like, etc. I've never been forced to switch employers or cities through no control of my own, and I would be surprised if anyone in here did as that really is something unique to professional sports. You always have a choice on where to work, except to you if you are a professional athlete. They apparently always have to show up and work even if their whole life is thrown upside down through no fault of their own. That seems pretty communist to me and I prefer a free society.
well, the NBA is his employer technically so he's still working for the same employer. he may not be working in what would translate to 'the same corporate division' that the rest of us would relate to.
does it suck having to be relocated? sure. but wasn't he looking to get out of Chicago?
putting that aside, he's not a child nor stupid. he knows he's playing in a professional sports league and trades are part of the standard business process in every professional league. pouting over being traded or being traded somewhere he doesn't like is unfortunate for him personally but it's part of being an employee of the NBA.
again, if he doesn't like being a trade chip, he can sign shorter deals to make him less appealing or give him the option of moving on to a preferable location after his deal expires at the end of a season or two. it's a grown-up option he has while making more money in a year playing a game that most people won't make in a lifetime of actual hard work-->weighing the benefit of signing a long-term deal for financial security vs the benefit of being able to move to a location of his choice/preventing a trade to a location he doesn't like. Hell, if he wanted both he should have pushed for no-trade deal or a trade-kicker clause that made a trade for him prohibitive.
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To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
That contract was traded, so he should honor it.
eh. I don't buy that argument at all. A player should absolutely be allowed to choose where he wants to play. If he doesn't want to play he shouldn't be forced to. He shouldn't be paid of course if he doesn't play, but he absolutely shouldn't be forced to honor a contract with a team he didn't sign up to play for.
that's crap. that mentality would put an end to any trades between franchises.
He's getting paid very handsomely to play a game for crying out loud. if he hates playing in Minnesota that much, let him quit the league and go flip burgers/work a real job and see how fast he warms up to playing in Minny then.
the truth of the matter is he is an employee of the league with a modicum of choice in where he gets to 'work' when he signs a contract. if he wants to avoid being a trade chip, he can sign shorter contracts or negotiate a no-trade clause in his deal.
no sympathy whatsoever for overpaid crybabies.
this is just silly. you should absolutely get to choose where you work and no one should be forced to work some place they don't want to work. Just imagine that in your own life and your own profession. If he wants to sit out and not get paid, more power to him. Again, he isn't getting paid if he just decides not to show up. If he wants to give up millions of dollars, that should be his right. He never choose to work in Minnesota and he absolutely shouldn't be forced to do so now.
That said, I don't think he just sat out to force a trade. I think he needs to rest his wrist which he had offseason surgery on.
you must be one of those fortunate people who's employers don't change locations. I'm not. I do have the option to find another employer but there needs to be one in a location I like that has a job opening that will compensate me fairly.
no sympathy for Butler. If Minny bothers him that much I'll gladly change jobs and financial compensation with him. I can't dunk but I'll gladly give it my all in Minny
I've actually been transferred by an employer. It sucks, but you have to make the decision that works for you. For me, transferring was the right call, but that was of course the same employer. I knew who I was working for, what it was like, etc. I've never been forced to switch employers or cities through no control of my own, and I would be surprised if anyone in here did as that really is something unique to professional sports. You always have a choice on where to work, except to you if you are a professional athlete. They apparently always have to show up and work even if their whole life is thrown upside down through no fault of their own. That seems pretty communist to me and I prefer a free society.
A) don't sign with the nba
B) sign a shorter contract
C) play
A) sign in the NBA but use whatever leverage you can to make the most money possible
B) take advantage of long-term guaranteed money and use whatever leverage you can to make the most money possible
C) play hard for your team as long as you and your family are set up with long-term financial security
Teams should absolutely use whatever leverage they have to get the best players for the least amount of money so that their franchise can be financially successful.
Players should absolutely use whatever leverage they have to get the most money so that they can be financially successful.
It's a business. If you don't think the Billionaire owners will take advantage of the players to pay them as little as possible, it's naive. Players should do the same.
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To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
That contract was traded, so he should honor it.
eh. I don't buy that argument at all. A player should absolutely be allowed to choose where he wants to play. If he doesn't want to play he shouldn't be forced to. He shouldn't be paid of course if he doesn't play, but he absolutely shouldn't be forced to honor a contract with a team he didn't sign up to play for.
that's crap. that mentality would put an end to any trades between franchises.
He's getting paid very handsomely to play a game for crying out loud. if he hates playing in Minnesota that much, let him quit the league and go flip burgers/work a real job and see how fast he warms up to playing in Minny then.
the truth of the matter is he is an employee of the league with a modicum of choice in where he gets to 'work' when he signs a contract. if he wants to avoid being a trade chip, he can sign shorter contracts or negotiate a no-trade clause in his deal.
no sympathy whatsoever for overpaid crybabies.
this is just silly. you should absolutely get to choose where you work and no one should be forced to work some place they don't want to work. Just imagine that in your own life and your own profession. If he wants to sit out and not get paid, more power to him. Again, he isn't getting paid if he just decides not to show up. If he wants to give up millions of dollars, that should be his right. He never choose to work in Minnesota and he absolutely shouldn't be forced to do so now.
That said, I don't think he just sat out to force a trade. I think he needs to rest his wrist which he had offseason surgery on.
you must be one of those fortunate people who's employers don't change locations. I'm not. I do have the option to find another employer but there needs to be one in a location I like that has a job opening that will compensate me fairly.
no sympathy for Butler. If Minny bothers him that much I'll gladly change jobs and financial compensation with him. I can't dunk but I'll gladly give it my all in Minny
I've actually been transferred by an employer. It sucks, but you have to make the decision that works for you. For me, transferring was the right call, but that was of course the same employer. I knew who I was working for, what it was like, etc. I've never been forced to switch employers or cities through no control of my own, and I would be surprised if anyone in here did as that really is something unique to professional sports. You always have a choice on where to work, except to you if you are a professional athlete. They apparently always have to show up and work even if their whole life is thrown upside down through no fault of their own. That seems pretty communist to me and I prefer a free society.
well, the NBA is his employer technically so he's still working for the same employer. he may not be working in what would translate to 'the same corporate division' that the rest of us would relate to.
does it suck having to be relocated? sure. but wasn't he looking to get out of Chicago?
putting that aside, he's not a child nor stupid. he knows he's playing in a professional sports league and trades are part of the standard business process in every professional league. pouting over being traded or being traded somewhere he doesn't like is unfortunate for him personally but it's part of being an employee of the NBA.
again, if he doesn't like being a trade chip, he can sign shorter deals to make him less appealing or give him the option of moving on to a preferable location after his deal expires at the end of a season or two. it's a grown-up option he has while making more money in a year playing a game that most people won't make in a lifetime of actual hard work-->weighing the benefit of signing a long-term deal for financial security vs the benefit of being able to move to a location of his choice/preventing a trade to a location he doesn't like. Hell, if he wanted both he should have pushed for no-trade deal or a trade-kicker clause that made a trade for him prohibitive.
He is not employed by the NBA, he is employed by the team. The NBA is a governing body which oversees all of the teams, but the teams are the actual employers of the players.
No employer can force any employee to work. The employers recourse would be whatever is in the contract, but generally it just involves not paying the employee, barring the employee from working someone else during the life of the contract, termination of the contract (which would never be used in this sort of case), and not a whole lot else.
Some very communist level opinions in this thread about forcing people to work.
-
To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
That contract was traded, so he should honor it.
eh. I don't buy that argument at all. A player should absolutely be allowed to choose where he wants to play. If he doesn't want to play he shouldn't be forced to. He shouldn't be paid of course if he doesn't play, but he absolutely shouldn't be forced to honor a contract with a team he didn't sign up to play for.
that's crap. that mentality would put an end to any trades between franchises.
He's getting paid very handsomely to play a game for crying out loud. if he hates playing in Minnesota that much, let him quit the league and go flip burgers/work a real job and see how fast he warms up to playing in Minny then.
the truth of the matter is he is an employee of the league with a modicum of choice in where he gets to 'work' when he signs a contract. if he wants to avoid being a trade chip, he can sign shorter contracts or negotiate a no-trade clause in his deal.
no sympathy whatsoever for overpaid crybabies.
this is just silly. you should absolutely get to choose where you work and no one should be forced to work some place they don't want to work. Just imagine that in your own life and your own profession. If he wants to sit out and not get paid, more power to him. Again, he isn't getting paid if he just decides not to show up. If he wants to give up millions of dollars, that should be his right. He never choose to work in Minnesota and he absolutely shouldn't be forced to do so now.
That said, I don't think he just sat out to force a trade. I think he needs to rest his wrist which he had offseason surgery on.
you must be one of those fortunate people who's employers don't change locations. I'm not. I do have the option to find another employer but there needs to be one in a location I like that has a job opening that will compensate me fairly.
no sympathy for Butler. If Minny bothers him that much I'll gladly change jobs and financial compensation with him. I can't dunk but I'll gladly give it my all in Minny
I've actually been transferred by an employer. It sucks, but you have to make the decision that works for you. For me, transferring was the right call, but that was of course the same employer. I knew who I was working for, what it was like, etc. I've never been forced to switch employers or cities through no control of my own, and I would be surprised if anyone in here did as that really is something unique to professional sports. You always have a choice on where to work, except to you if you are a professional athlete. They apparently always have to show up and work even if their whole life is thrown upside down through no fault of their own. That seems pretty communist to me and I prefer a free society.
well, the NBA is his employer technically so he's still working for the same employer. he may not be working in what would translate to 'the same corporate division' that the rest of us would relate to.
does it suck having to be relocated? sure. but wasn't he looking to get out of Chicago?
putting that aside, he's not a child nor stupid. he knows he's playing in a professional sports league and trades are part of the standard business process in every professional league. pouting over being traded or being traded somewhere he doesn't like is unfortunate for him personally but it's part of being an employee of the NBA.
again, if he doesn't like being a trade chip, he can sign shorter deals to make him less appealing or give him the option of moving on to a preferable location after his deal expires at the end of a season or two. it's a grown-up option he has while making more money in a year playing a game that most people won't make in a lifetime of actual hard work-->weighing the benefit of signing a long-term deal for financial security vs the benefit of being able to move to a location of his choice/preventing a trade to a location he doesn't like. Hell, if he wanted both he should have pushed for no-trade deal or a trade-kicker clause that made a trade for him prohibitive.
He is not employed by the NBA, he is employed by the team. The NBA is a governing body which oversees all of the teams, but the teams are the actual employers of the players.
No employer can force any employee to work. The employers recourse would be whatever is in the contract, but generally it just involves not paying the employee, barring the employee from working someone else during the life of the contract, termination of the contract (which would never be used in this sort of case), and not a whole lot else.
Some very communist level opinions in this thread about forcing people to work.
Only as communist as the draft, salary cap, max salaries, trades, restricted free agency, etc. Wait, that stuff is actually kind of communist. :o
Like you said, Butler has the right to sit out. You had the right to quit your job when you got transferred. We all have these rights. God bless America and the end of slavery.
But if you want to be a part of something, you abide by the rules and structure of it. Jimmy wants to be part of the NBA and get that $190m max contract, but it's the rules and structure that the NBA has put in place that allows for that. Trades, draft rights, etc., this allows teams like Minnesota to field a good NBA team, it's what puts talent in OKC and New Orleans and San Antonio and Utah, etc., it's a big part of what enables the NBA to pay out over $3.6b to players this year. Star players choosing not to honor their contract only so they can play with other teams undermines the whole structure of the league.
I'll echo Donoghus, I always liked Jimmy, but this whole thing is not a good look for him.
-
To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
That contract was traded, so he should honor it.
eh. I don't buy that argument at all. A player should absolutely be allowed to choose where he wants to play. If he doesn't want to play he shouldn't be forced to. He shouldn't be paid of course if he doesn't play, but he absolutely shouldn't be forced to honor a contract with a team he didn't sign up to play for.
that's crap. that mentality would put an end to any trades between franchises.
He's getting paid very handsomely to play a game for crying out loud. if he hates playing in Minnesota that much, let him quit the league and go flip burgers/work a real job and see how fast he warms up to playing in Minny then.
the truth of the matter is he is an employee of the league with a modicum of choice in where he gets to 'work' when he signs a contract. if he wants to avoid being a trade chip, he can sign shorter contracts or negotiate a no-trade clause in his deal.
no sympathy whatsoever for overpaid crybabies.
this is just silly. you should absolutely get to choose where you work and no one should be forced to work some place they don't want to work. Just imagine that in your own life and your own profession. If he wants to sit out and not get paid, more power to him. Again, he isn't getting paid if he just decides not to show up. If he wants to give up millions of dollars, that should be his right. He never choose to work in Minnesota and he absolutely shouldn't be forced to do so now.
That said, I don't think he just sat out to force a trade. I think he needs to rest his wrist which he had offseason surgery on.
you must be one of those fortunate people who's employers don't change locations. I'm not. I do have the option to find another employer but there needs to be one in a location I like that has a job opening that will compensate me fairly.
no sympathy for Butler. If Minny bothers him that much I'll gladly change jobs and financial compensation with him. I can't dunk but I'll gladly give it my all in Minny
I've actually been transferred by an employer. It sucks, but you have to make the decision that works for you. For me, transferring was the right call, but that was of course the same employer. I knew who I was working for, what it was like, etc. I've never been forced to switch employers or cities through no control of my own, and I would be surprised if anyone in here did as that really is something unique to professional sports. You always have a choice on where to work, except to you if you are a professional athlete. They apparently always have to show up and work even if their whole life is thrown upside down through no fault of their own. That seems pretty communist to me and I prefer a free society.
well, the NBA is his employer technically so he's still working for the same employer. he may not be working in what would translate to 'the same corporate division' that the rest of us would relate to.
does it suck having to be relocated? sure. but wasn't he looking to get out of Chicago?
putting that aside, he's not a child nor stupid. he knows he's playing in a professional sports league and trades are part of the standard business process in every professional league. pouting over being traded or being traded somewhere he doesn't like is unfortunate for him personally but it's part of being an employee of the NBA.
again, if he doesn't like being a trade chip, he can sign shorter deals to make him less appealing or give him the option of moving on to a preferable location after his deal expires at the end of a season or two. it's a grown-up option he has while making more money in a year playing a game that most people won't make in a lifetime of actual hard work-->weighing the benefit of signing a long-term deal for financial security vs the benefit of being able to move to a location of his choice/preventing a trade to a location he doesn't like. Hell, if he wanted both he should have pushed for no-trade deal or a trade-kicker clause that made a trade for him prohibitive.
He is not employed by the NBA, he is employed by the team. The NBA is a governing body which oversees all of the teams, but the teams are the actual employers of the players.
No employer can force any employee to work. The employers recourse would be whatever is in the contract, but generally it just involves not paying the employee, barring the employee from working someone else during the life of the contract, termination of the contract (which would never be used in this sort of case), and not a whole lot else.
Some very communist level opinions in this thread about forcing people to work.
Only as communist as the draft, salary cap, max salaries, trades, restricted free agency, etc. Wait, that stuff is actually kind of communist. :o
Like you said, Butler has the right to sit out. You had the right to quit your job when you got transferred. We all have these rights. Gold bless America and the end of slavery.
But if you want to be a part of something, you abide by the rules and structure of it. Jimmy wants to be part of the NBA and get that $190m max contract, but it's the rules and structure that the NBA has put in place that allows for that. Trades, draft rights, etc., this allows teams like Minnesota to field a good NBA team, it's what puts talent in OKC and New Orleans and San Antonio and Utah, etc., it's a big part of what enables the NBA to pay out over $3.6b to players this year. Star players choosing not to honor their contract only so they can play with other teams undermines the whole structure of the league.
I'll echo Donoghus, I always liked Jimmy, but this whole thing is not a good look for him.
Ah, but there is the rub. There isn't a rule that forces you to play. No player has to play. If they want to get paid they do, but they certainly don't have to. If he is truly sitting out when healthy, it isn't a good look, just like it wasn't for Leonard last year, but it didn't seem to affect Leonard's financial outlook all that much and it probably won't affect Butler's either.
-
To be fair, Butler signed a contract with the Bulls. He never chose to play in Minnesota. He was traded there and he had no choice in the matter.
That contract was traded, so he should honor it.
eh. I don't buy that argument at all. A player should absolutely be allowed to choose where he wants to play. If he doesn't want to play he shouldn't be forced to. He shouldn't be paid of course if he doesn't play, but he absolutely shouldn't be forced to honor a contract with a team he didn't sign up to play for.
that's crap. that mentality would put an end to any trades between franchises.
He's getting paid very handsomely to play a game for crying out loud. if he hates playing in Minnesota that much, let him quit the league and go flip burgers/work a real job and see how fast he warms up to playing in Minny then.
the truth of the matter is he is an employee of the league with a modicum of choice in where he gets to 'work' when he signs a contract. if he wants to avoid being a trade chip, he can sign shorter contracts or negotiate a no-trade clause in his deal.
no sympathy whatsoever for overpaid crybabies.
this is just silly. you should absolutely get to choose where you work and no one should be forced to work some place they don't want to work. Just imagine that in your own life and your own profession. If he wants to sit out and not get paid, more power to him. Again, he isn't getting paid if he just decides not to show up. If he wants to give up millions of dollars, that should be his right. He never choose to work in Minnesota and he absolutely shouldn't be forced to do so now.
That said, I don't think he just sat out to force a trade. I think he needs to rest his wrist which he had offseason surgery on.
you must be one of those fortunate people who's employers don't change locations. I'm not. I do have the option to find another employer but there needs to be one in a location I like that has a job opening that will compensate me fairly.
no sympathy for Butler. If Minny bothers him that much I'll gladly change jobs and financial compensation with him. I can't dunk but I'll gladly give it my all in Minny
I've actually been transferred by an employer. It sucks, but you have to make the decision that works for you. For me, transferring was the right call, but that was of course the same employer. I knew who I was working for, what it was like, etc. I've never been forced to switch employers or cities through no control of my own, and I would be surprised if anyone in here did as that really is something unique to professional sports. You always have a choice on where to work, except to you if you are a professional athlete. They apparently always have to show up and work even if their whole life is thrown upside down through no fault of their own. That seems pretty communist to me and I prefer a free society.
well, the NBA is his employer technically so he's still working for the same employer. he may not be working in what would translate to 'the same corporate division' that the rest of us would relate to.
does it suck having to be relocated? sure. but wasn't he looking to get out of Chicago?
putting that aside, he's not a child nor stupid. he knows he's playing in a professional sports league and trades are part of the standard business process in every professional league. pouting over being traded or being traded somewhere he doesn't like is unfortunate for him personally but it's part of being an employee of the NBA.
again, if he doesn't like being a trade chip, he can sign shorter deals to make him less appealing or give him the option of moving on to a preferable location after his deal expires at the end of a season or two. it's a grown-up option he has while making more money in a year playing a game that most people won't make in a lifetime of actual hard work-->weighing the benefit of signing a long-term deal for financial security vs the benefit of being able to move to a location of his choice/preventing a trade to a location he doesn't like. Hell, if he wanted both he should have pushed for no-trade deal or a trade-kicker clause that made a trade for him prohibitive.
He is not employed by the NBA, he is employed by the team. The NBA is a governing body which oversees all of the teams, but the teams are the actual employers of the players.
No employer can force any employee to work. The employers recourse would be whatever is in the contract, but generally it just involves not paying the employee, barring the employee from working someone else during the life of the contract, termination of the contract (which would never be used in this sort of case), and not a whole lot else.
Some very communist level opinions in this thread about forcing people to work.
Only as communist as the draft, salary cap, max salaries, trades, restricted free agency, etc. Wait, that stuff is actually kind of communist. :o
Like you said, Butler has the right to sit out. You had the right to quit your job when you got transferred. We all have these rights. God bless America and the end of slavery.
But if you want to be a part of something, you abide by the rules and structure of it. Jimmy wants to be part of the NBA and get that $190m max contract, but it's the rules and structure that the NBA has put in place that allows for that. Trades, draft rights, etc., this allows teams like Minnesota to field a good NBA team, it's what puts talent in OKC and New Orleans and San Antonio and Utah, etc., it's a big part of what enables the NBA to pay out over $3.6b to players this year. Star players choosing not to honor their contract only so they can play with other teams undermines the whole structure of the league.
I'll echo Donoghus, I always liked Jimmy, but this whole thing is not a good look for him.
Ah, but there is the rub. There isn't a rule that forces you to play. No player has to play. If they want to get paid they do, but they certainly don't have to. If he is truly sitting out when healthy, it isn't a good look, just like it wasn't for Leonard last year, but it didn't seem to affect Leonard's financial outlook all that much and it probably won't affect Butler's either.
In the wise words of Homer Simpson...
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYXzHjbfMDk)
(https://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-if-you-don-t-like-your-job-you-don-t-strike-you-just-go-in-every-day-and-do-it-really-half-assed-homer-simpson-296861.jpg)
Here's a question for those that want Butler to play:
Would you rather Butler sit out or sand bag it while he suits up (anybody remember Vince Carter's final half season in Toronto?). I'll give Butler this, at least he's playing hard still when he does play.
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Butler back out there tonight. As I suspected, he just needed some extra rest on the wrist.
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if Celtics continue to struggle, u think Ainge might try and pull off a trade? i do
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if Celtics continue to struggle, u think Ainge might try and pull off a trade? i do
Assuming contracts matched up and Butler was willing to re-sign with us, I wonder how many Cs fans would do a Hayward for Butler swap.
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if Celtics continue to struggle, u think Ainge might try and pull off a trade? i do
i
Assuming contracts matched up and Butler was willing to re-sign with us, I wonder how many Cs fans would do a Hayward for Butler swap.
i rather have Butler than Hayward
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Salary wise I think we could fit in Smart (when he becomes trade eligible), Morris, and filler like Theis plus some arrangement of our picks for Butler. Then the question becomes do we want to re-sign him in the off-season to a big contract as a 30 year old.
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Resting again tonight according to beat reporters
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Resting again tonight according to beat reporters
Must be nice to rest anytime u want and get paid
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Resting again tonight according to beat reporters
Must be nice to rest anytime u want and get paid
He apparently isn't going to play both games of a back to back.