Author Topic: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)  (Read 89240 times)

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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2013, 06:22:29 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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There is NO WAY Lawson goes off. He is being guarded by a well well above average defender in Rubio and when Rubio takes a break he will be guarded by an even better defender in Hinrich.

Didn't see this.  This might seal it for me, as I think Hinrich could do enough to limit Lawson, without giving up too much on offense.  I certainly don't buy Rubio as capable of doing the job.

Still gonna sleep on it though.  HC advantage might be crucial here.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2013, 06:29:59 PM »

Offline ronaldo943

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And when matched up against Ricky Rubio, Ty Lawson averages 22.5 on .708 shooting while Rubio has 13.5 ppg on .360

I think this has been overlooked. If we are going to discuss head2head stats, this is an extremely significant comparison to look at, even if it was only a few games.

The bigs from these two teams match up fairly well and just about equal each other out (though of course I think Cleveland has the slight edge). Cleveland has excellent defenders on the wings to contain Martin and Green, but NYK seems to have no answer for Ty Lawson. This is the kind of matchup where he could put up numbers like he did against the Warriors last season. And that, combined with our tough defense and balanced scoring, will put Cleveland over the top.

Cleveland in 6.


I found this funny how you brought up head2head since last round there was more evidence yet you ignored it and now that it's 2 games you bring it up.

Still think you will win just found that hypocritical.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2013, 06:32:34 PM »

Offline ronaldo943

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Yeah but Ronaldo is wrong.

I get home to see this. SMH. I can't believe you're talking smack IP. I could see it from someone else, but definitely not you. You think you know a guy.  ::)  :P

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2013, 06:43:01 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Cool story: Brook Lopez in his career shoots 52% against Kevin Garnett, above his career average.
Here's another cool story. In the stats you are quoting, clearly half those games, KG didn't guard Lopez because he was playing PF and Perk or Shaq or JO were covering Lopez.

In 6 of 7 games that KG has played center vs Lopez and guarded him primarily, Lopez was held to 47% shooting. The other Lopez went 11 for 14.

Kind of tells me Lopez might shine offensively one game out of 7 against KG but otherwise, he would struggle.
What was his TS% Nick? PPG?

Because looking at the game log Lopez got to the line 6.6 times a game and he shoots well from there. I only saw 5 games where KG was at C too, though I might be missing something with how I sorted it via date.

I get something around 20 PPG and that includes a clunker where Lopez played little due to foul trouble and only scored 9 points.

So 4 out of 5 games Lopez did well against KG (these are the 5 most recent games)
Went back and checked and you are right 5 games.

Lopez' TS% was 57%   Lopez' FG% 53%
KG's TS% was 58%     KG's FG% 56%

KG had twice as many steals per game at 0.8 to 0.4 but Lopez 3 times as many blocks 1.8 to 1.6

KG averaged 9 RPG to Lopez's 6 RPG.

Lopez averaged 19.4 PPG to KGs 13.6 PPG. But Lopez was the Nets #1 scoring option and Garnett a #3 option

I think these five games are the only five where someone can definitively state they matched up against one another. And I think given the importance of each to their team's offense, Lopez #1 and Garnett #3, I would say that neither player got the best of the matchup. Simply put, if Boston went to KG more often, he probably could have scored as much if not more than Lopez.

Where I think the big difference is is where it always is for Lopez and KG. KG is an elite rebounder and Lopez below average and I think that makes a huge difference in the playoffs.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2013, 06:44:17 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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And when matched up against Ricky Rubio, Ty Lawson averages 22.5 on .708 shooting while Rubio has 13.5 ppg on .360

I think this has been overlooked. If we are going to discuss head2head stats, this is an extremely significant comparison to look at, even if it was only a few games.

The bigs from these two teams match up fairly well and just about equal each other out (though of course I think Cleveland has the slight edge). Cleveland has excellent defenders on the wings to contain Martin and Green, but NYK seems to have no answer for Ty Lawson. This is the kind of matchup where he could put up numbers like he did against the Warriors last season. And that, combined with our tough defense and balanced scoring, will put Cleveland over the top.

Cleveland in 6.


I found this funny how you brought up head2head since last round there was more evidence yet you ignored it and now that it's 2 games you bring it up.

Still think you will win just found that hypocritical.

I only brought this up because everyone seems so insistent on going by this metric, so I might as well talk about one that's in my favor... by a lot.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2013, 06:52:56 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Re: New York:

I like his defensive presence, but is Sanders going to be any kind of factor on offense when he's in for Lopez or ZBo? Is the offense going to suffer?

Re: Cleveland:

I think KG will greatly benefit from the playoff scheduling format. I have little doubt he'll be at high intensity on defense throughout the series. Question is whether his shot will be falling.

Are Wallace and Landry playing significant minutes at PF (when Horford moves to C when KG sits)? I don't have much of a problem with that in terms of Cleveland's team defense/rebounding.

I like Ty Lawson's ability to use his strength and speed in his matchup against Rubio. But I also wonder about the backup PG slot if Lawson proves erratic or can't play due to foul trouble.
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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2013, 06:57:13 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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i voted.....CLE

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2013, 06:59:57 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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And when matched up against Ricky Rubio, Ty Lawson averages 22.5 on .708 shooting while Rubio has 13.5 ppg on .360

I think this has been overlooked. If we are going to discuss head2head stats, this is an extremely significant comparison to look at, even if it was only a few games.

The bigs from these two teams match up fairly well and just about equal each other out (though of course I think Cleveland has the slight edge). Cleveland has excellent defenders on the wings to contain Martin and Green, but NYK seems to have no answer for Ty Lawson. This is the kind of matchup where he could put up numbers like he did against the Warriors last season. And that, combined with our tough defense and balanced scoring, will put Cleveland over the top.

Cleveland in 6.


I found this funny how you brought up head2head since last round there was more evidence yet you ignored it and now that it's 2 games you bring it up.

Still think you will win just found that hypocritical.

Literally everyone in the game is hypocritical, the only difference is direction and degree.  That includes me, too.  It's kinda the nature of the thing.  The hypocrisy surprises me a lot less than the pretense of being objective.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2013, 07:11:22 PM »

Online Who

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I have changed my mind on this series 2 or 3 times already. Confused.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2013, 07:12:34 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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And when matched up against Ricky Rubio, Ty Lawson averages 22.5 on .708 shooting while Rubio has 13.5 ppg on .360

I think this has been overlooked. If we are going to discuss head2head stats, this is an extremely significant comparison to look at, even if it was only a few games.

The bigs from these two teams match up fairly well and just about equal each other out (though of course I think Cleveland has the slight edge). Cleveland has excellent defenders on the wings to contain Martin and Green, but NYK seems to have no answer for Ty Lawson. This is the kind of matchup where he could put up numbers like he did against the Warriors last season. And that, combined with our tough defense and balanced scoring, will put Cleveland over the top.

Cleveland in 6.


I found this funny how you brought up head2head since last round there was more evidence yet you ignored it and now that it's 2 games you bring it up.

Still think you will win just found that hypocritical.

Literally everyone in the game is hypocritical, the only difference is direction and degree.  That includes me, too.  It's kinda the nature of the thing.  The hypocrisy surprises me a lot less than the pretense of being objective.

they only thing that has surprised me is the amount of gm's that didn't vote. 

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2013, 07:58:03 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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Re: Cleveland:

[1] I think KG will greatly benefit from the playoff scheduling format. I have little doubt he'll be at high intensity on defense throughout the series. Question is whether his shot will be falling.

[2] Are Wallace and Landry playing significant minutes at PF (when Horford moves to C when KG sits)? I don't have much of a problem with that in terms of Cleveland's team defense/rebounding.

[3] I like Ty Lawson's ability to use his strength and speed in his matchup against Rubio. But I also wonder about the backup PG slot if Lawson proves erratic or can't play due to foul trouble.

[1] We really do too. We understood during the regular season that his durability would hurt our seeding, but KG is a huge positive in the playoffs. His shot will likely be falling because he won't be the second or third scoring option. KG's role offensively will be to hit midrange jumpers and play the PnR, both of which he can still do.

[2] Both Landry and Wallace will see some minutes at PF, though it will largely depend on their performance when determining who plays more. If Landry is scoring well and defending adequately, he'll play more. If Wallace's defense is desperately needed, he'll play more. Hollins can make that call. Regardless, Wallace will see increased minutes at SF from the series with Orlando, because he'll need to slow down Jeff Green some, and Landry will see his usual rotational minutes at the 4 next to Horford or KG.

[3] Lawson can be erratic at times, but usually only with his scoring. If his shot isn't falling, he'll become more of a facilitator to Horford, Crawford, Landry, and Garnett until he regains his stroke. We aren't too concerned about foul trouble, as we think he can play pretty light defense on Rubio. Rubio won't be the one scoring; it's the other four we have to worry about. In any case, Steve Blake is a more than adequate backup; he makes good passes and can shoot the three. If he needs to see some PT because of unforeseen circumstances, it won't drag Cleveland down.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 08:03:44 PM by AB_Celtic »

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2013, 08:01:29 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

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Settling down from moving in now. I can answer more questions if people have 'em.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2013, 10:46:03 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Re: New York:

I like his defensive presence, but is Sanders going to be any kind of factor on offense when he's in for Lopez or ZBo? Is the offense going to suffer?

Re: Cleveland:

I think KG will greatly benefit from the playoff scheduling format. I have little doubt he'll be at high intensity on defense throughout the series. Question is whether his shot will be falling.

Are Wallace and Landry playing significant minutes at PF (when Horford moves to C when KG sits)? I don't have much of a problem with that in terms of Cleveland's team defense/rebounding.

I like Ty Lawson's ability to use his strength and speed in his matchup against Rubio. But I also wonder about the backup PG slot if Lawson proves erratic or can't play due to foul trouble.

I think sanders offense is only going to improve to be honest. For a couple reason.

The cavs are expecting nothing from sanders on the offensive end, letting Garnett double team either ZBo or Lopez, this leaves sanders free to do what he does best on offense, slash to the openings in the paint, make back door cuts for over the top alley oops, and finish in the restricted area (in which he shot 15-19 from against KG last season).

Also, sanders in the center slot in George Karl uptempo offense can be huge on the break alongside Rubio and the athleticism of green an Martin on the wings.

Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2013, 10:50:58 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Here's the thing with NY:

If they play
Hinrich
Udrih
Garcia
Zbo
Sanders

That's still a pretty awesome and balanced end of quarter team.

But in a lot of ways, NY falls apart when Zbo and Lopez play together.

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Re: 2013 CB Draft: Eastern Semi Finals: New York(2) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2013, 10:56:51 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Actually, I don't mean they fall apart, I mean they're not as good and balanced as they could be.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner