Is Boston's offensive system a problem?

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I was just reading a Greg Payne story about Bass on ESPN Boston, and this sentence jumped out at me:

While there could be multiple reasons for Bass' woes – a common shooting slump, for example – what might be more problematic is him joining the Celtics' key support players in not appearing comfortable in Boston's offensive system.

The key part is the last phrase: "not appearing comfortable in Boston's offensive system." Is there something about this system that stifles the talents of our guys? Too many baseline screens? Too much Rondo pounding the ball at the top of the key?

I was hoping that Ray's departure would spell the end of the endless screens. And that the Cs would run more. And to be honest, there have been times before when I thought, "Why does it seem like players who were quite talented offensively before they came to Boston become so much less of a force after joining the Cs?" I get the team concept, with ball movement and unselfish play, but the system also seems to just drain guys of their offensive spark. I'm thinking specifically of guys like Marbury, Robinson, Lee, even Terry to some extent. I realize that Marbury was at the end of his career, but not Robinson or Lee, and Terry's still good enough (in my opinion) to be a scary threat off the bench.

What do you guys think?

[timobusa]

I think they should run more simple plays, simple pick and roll plays. 80% of the NBA teams are doing it with good results, they should attack the basket more often, and dont settle for jump shots. Pick and Roll, Pick and Pop. The offensive sets they're running is way too complex for 10 new guys to pick up, plus it takes so much time to execute.

[BballTim]

  Is there a particular reason Bass would be less comfortable this year than last? With him, it's either a confidence or attentiveness issue. Terry's coming along, and while he's scoring a bit less than usual he has his highest TS% since he was in his 20s. I think that Lee's been figuring things out a little better lately as well although I wonder how many of his minutes will go to Bradley in a few weeks.

[jbaerg]

This team doesn't move the ball as much as they need too. This might actually be one of the teams that benefits from a D'antoni offense. Keep the defense though lol.

[FatjohnReturns]

Yes

It has always been a problem under Doc. This is not a new situation.

Go back and watch the offense Jim Obrien ran when he had a young Pierce and Antoine. Doc is clueless.

[CelticSooner]

I've been thinking about this for a while now. It really does seem like Doc's system tends to handcuff players. For a system that involves ball movement the ball seems to get stuck in Rondo, Pierce, and KG's hands quite often.

[timobusa]

I've been thinking about this for a while now. It really does seem like Doc's system tends to handcuff players. For a system that involves ball movement the ball seems to get stuck in Rondo, Pierce, and KG's hands quite often.

I agree! 100% Simple plays = Easy Baskets + Better Defense = WINS.

They shouldnt come off 8 screens in 24 seconds just to get 2 points.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I've been thinking about this for a while now. It really does seem like Doc's system tends to handcuff players. For a system that involves ball movement the ball seems to get stuck in Rondo, Pierce, and KG's hands quite often.

Great word choice. The system seems to not play to the players' strengths, instead forcing them into being something they aren't.

[kozlodoev]

Yup, our players are being handcuffed all the way to having one of the top FG%s in the league every season

[MBunge]

Yup, our players are being handcuffed all the way to having one of the top FG%s in the league every season

Shooting percentage isn't the end all, be all of offense.  Number of shots, turnovers, offensive production in clutch situations and not having long scoring droughts also matter.  Point differential is also not just about defending.  If you play great defense but can't score yourself, you make every game tougher than it needs to be.  And there's also "blowout-ability".  Being able to get 15 to 20 points up and stay there against bad teams is a valuable offensive benefit in being able to rest players.

But perhaps I am blaspheming against the Holy Doc.

Mike

[2short]

No low post game, no inside out.  Shaq might have been OLD but he forced defensive movement in and out.  Good ball swing when that happens means good shots.  Our offense is currently run sparingly then the weave.  Solve the problem.
rondo, bradley, green, sully, kg starting lineup

sully and green on the box, kg mid range game and everyone (sully?) can run on that squad
subs of pierce, terry, bass etc is a good 1/2 court team who can run when the opportunity shows itself

neither unit would have the best players but both units would be GOOD, pressure an opposing team with that for a full game and we will wear people down

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Yup, our players are being handcuffed all the way to having one of the top FG%s in the league every season

Shooting percentage isn't the end all, be all of offense.  Number of shots, turnovers, offensive production in clutch situations and not having long scoring droughts also matter.  Point differential is also not just about defending.  If you play great defense but can't score yourself, you make every game tougher than it needs to be.  And there's also "blowout-ability".  Being able to get 15 to 20 points up and stay there against bad teams is a valuable offensive benefit in being able to rest players.

But perhaps I am blaspheming against the Holy Doc.

Mike

Great points, Mike. I've often thought, while watching a Celtics game in recent seasons, "Yeah, it's great that Boston holds opponents to like 88 points and 40% shooting, and it's great that Boston shoots 48% (or something like that), but Boston's scoring only 90 points a game, so bottom line, every game's a nailbiter, at best." We're scoring more points this season, which is nice, but I still think there's potential to be deadly on offense, but it's not happening. Not enough running or ball movement.

[Change]

We are long overdue for an some tweaking, or an outright overhaul of the system. Question remains, Can Doc put his ego aside and try something different? Pop did it with the Spurs, and Doc needs to do the same thing here. Opening up the offense will go a long way. Give players not named Rondo, Pierce, and Garnett opportunity to find their game rather than forcing them into box i.e Jason Terry. With all the firepower on this squad, Celtics must eclipse the century point mark every game. Anything short of that is a bad night.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

With all the firepower on this squad, Celtics must eclipse the century point mark every game. Anything short of that is a bad night.

Yeah, when I consider that we have Terry, Barbosa, Green, and Wilcox—in addition to the Big Three–I'm amazed when the points don't flow more freely.

[CapnDunks]

I think some of this is because of Rondo. Guys seems to think that they should always be able to convert a pass from Rondo. And if not it should go back to him so he can figure something else out. I'm a lot less irritated with the shots Rondo passes up for assists than I am with extra passes that aren't made by his teammates.

I think having the ball swing back and forth through Rondo so much hurts ball movement and makes it easier to defend.