CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: mahonedog88 on July 04, 2018, 07:49:25 AM
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So there was that report from the Chicago Sun Times I think it was, mainly about Jimmy Butler and how he has no intention of signing an extension with Minnesota, that he underestimated how much "growing" guys like Towns and Wiggins still need to do and he doesn't want to wait.
And there was the little nugget in there that him and Kyrie are still talking about trying to join forces and take over the East now that Lebron is gone, whether it be in Boston or somewhere else.
First of all, let me just say that I'm getting a little tired of these stories coming out that all seem to revolve around Kyrie leaving. Second, there's really only 1 thing that's stopping me from doing that deal, and that's the health factor of Butler. He's got a bit of an injury history, but his comes from all his years playing under Thibs. Because as we've seen in Minnesota and Chicago, Thibs has ZERO idea how to manage minutes and absolutely runs his players into the ground.
So already Butler would be coming here with a lot of miles under him for someone who turns 29 in September. Honestly, even if it means losing Kyrie, I still think I'd rather have Brown. Brown I think may have a higher ceiling than Butler, or at least the chance of, because Butler I think has reached his. What's sort of annoying is that this deal wouldn't really be anything about Butler, or Brown...it'd solely be a move to keep Irving here and happy.
Of course, this is only if we believe this report.
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No thanks to trading for Butler in order to appease Kyrie. It would need to be a pure basketball move that Danny believes in regardless of circumstance. Danny and Brad have done nothing but improve this team every season since they have been together. I don't like the message it would send to Horford, Hayward, Tatum etc. If the current roster isn't enough for Kyrie then that's fine (not saying I believe the rumors). Could Kyrie ask for a better group of young talent and coaching?
Losing Kyrie would be a tough blow but do we really want him if he needs to play with Butler? We have plenty of young talent and assets to make things work regardless. I have faith in Danny and Brad to make the best of any situation.
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Might depend on money, but basically no
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I wish all these Kyrie speculation would go away.
Is like the Media wants this guy out of Boston, and preferably go to NY.
....not sure why; the Cs are the league only hope for a competitive 2019 NBA FINALS.
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We have a GM we don't need a player gm. No.
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Nope.
I would rather trade Kyrie and all this drama for Karl Towns if this persists. They get what they want and we get our big and Rozier will be cheaper. Tatum can be the alpha dog down the road.
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If I'm not mistaken Brown and Butler are friends as well. I remember them working out on the beach before JB's rookie season. I can't imagine Butler would be cool joining Kyrie if it meant sending Brown somewhere he didn't want to be.
Maybe something centered around Rozier/Smart + filler? But that would mean someone would have to come off the bench.
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If I'm not mistaken Brown and Butler are friends as well. I remember them working out on the beach before JB's rookie season. I can't imagine Butler would be cool joining Kyrie if it meant sending Brown somewhere he didn't want to be.
Maybe something centered around Rozier/Smart + filler? But that would mean someone would have to come off the bench.
Pretty much this so tp.
I'd guess Morris, Rozier, Smart (@ 11 million s&t), and kings pick + C's 1st would get team Butler.
Then sign IT.
Irving, Butler, Hayward, Tatum, Horford
IT, Brown, Semi, Theis, Baynes
Wanna, Bird, Yab, Bob
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Then sign IT.
I doubt he wants to come off the bench.
'd guess Morris, Rozier, Smart (@ 11 million s&t), and kings pick + C's 1st would get team Butler.
It would also crater our bench, way to much to pay.
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Then sign IT.
I doubt he wants to come off the bench.
'd guess Morris, Rozier, Smart (@ 11 million s&t), and kings pick + C's 1st would get team Butler.
It would also crater our bench, way to much to pay.
I named the bench. Other than PG it's solid.
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Yeah, let’s get 8 years older and less athletic by trading Jaylen Brown for Jimmy Butler.
No thank you.
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If Kyrie really wants Butler over Brown, then let’s trade Kyrie for some picks.
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No. If Kyrie doesn’t want to be here, trade him.
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Another 12 months of this crap to try and stir up so much crap Kyrie runs for the exit- The media is in a get Kyrie out of Boston kick and I am beyond sick of it- I bet Kyrie is fed up as well and he is probably like this microscope is getting awfully claustrophobic.
I do not trade Brown for Butler ever. Brown will be better and is cost controlled.
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No, I'd pack Kyrie's bags to keep Jaylen and Tatum.
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It really depends on who Danny values more, but he can't do nothing.
If it came out that Kyrie was going to leave if we did not acquire Butler, he would either a) trade Brown for Butler or, b) trade Kyrie for KAT/Kawhi/disgruntled All-star.
Under no circumstance could I see Danny playing out the year and then letting Kyrie walk for nothing. He values his assets too much. As much as I love Brown, the combination of Kyrie and Butler is better than just Brown.
Personally I would prefer option B.
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Just to clarify, maybe a cap expert could help me out.
My understanding is that the Wolves would be over the luxury tax with this trade.
My understanding is also that, in a sign-and-trade, the player signed and going out only counts for half the salary in the trade.
In other words, even if we were able to sign Smart to a 14 million dollar contract, and trade him with Morris, Nader, and Yabu (and picks) to the Wolves, the trade would work (16,432,842 in Celtic outgoing salary and 20,445,779 incoming salary is within the 125% limit).
The problem is that even though Smart's salary only counts as 7 million for trade purposes, it still counts as 14 million against their salary cap, which gets them close to the luxury tax threshhold.
By my count, if the Wolves did that trade (and signed Georges-Hunt who they like), they would have 15 players under contract (renounce all free agents) and be in the luxury tax by $924,063. Not a lot, but for team that is looking at the possibility of repeater penalties in the future, it'd be good to get under that. If they waived Nader (400,000 guaranteed), they would get under the tax by $54,179.
Wolves Starters: Teague, Smart, Wiggins, Gibson, KAT
Wolves Bench: Morris, Tolliver, Dieng, Patton, Jones, Okogie, Yabusele, Rose, Georges-Hunt
In my opinion, that trade doesn't make sense for the Wolves unless they at least get back Rozier and then trade Teague in a salary dump, but that was the general numbers for it.
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I'd acquire Butler and wouldn't give it much thought. He is a very good 2 way player in the same tier as Irving and Hayward in the league.
It would probably mean that Horford would have to be traded next summer, but I'm ok with taking the championship shot this year.
And I would absolutely trade Brown in the trade if that is what it took.
So basically Butler for Brown, Morris, Yabu, and Nader (I think that is enough salary but if not add Semi).
Post-Trade - Main 2 deep rotation
PG - Irving, Rozier
SG - Butler, Smart
SF - Hayward, Tatum
PF - Horford, Theis
C - Baynes, Williams
That team if everyone is healthy and back to where they were would be a real threat to the Warriors and the very heavy and clear favorites in the East. Even if the Sixers acquired Leonard (for basically Saric, Covington, and 1sts) that C's team would still be the favorites in the East.
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Absolutely not.
Jaylen Brown will easily be a young Jimmy Butler, and would cost cheaper to retain. I'd trade Kyrie if it comes down to it. Rather keep the guy who's only 21 and who's game is growing year by year.
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No.
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I don't think it would be all that bad if Kyrie walked.
His next deal will be fairly risky. He'll want a huge contract, and his durability is questionable. He is our only important player who isn't a plus defender.
His primary value as an unstoppable scorer won't be so important in two years. It will be time to turn over the keys to Tatum and Brown anyway, and I prefer the idea of having a defensive wall of big, athletic wing players, with Horford/Williams/Theis as a backstop. We'd still have Hayward as a decision maker, and we will have whatever we end up with after the 2019 draft. We could keep Rozier and/or Smart for situational matchups, and we would be in an very enviable situation with cap space.
I'm not sure we wouldn't be better off without him
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No. I assume if this were the ultimatum DA was faced with, he'd find a package for Kyrie
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Everybody is trying hard to get Brown off this team. First in a possible trade for Leonard, now for Butler.
If Butler is interested in joining the Celtics, then he and Kyrie can sign contracts when their current one runs out. I'm not trading a younger, and still improving, potential All-Star for the reputation of any player's past accomplishments.
If it only takes a combination of bench players and a pick or two, then I'm open...especially if it helps us keep Kyrie.
Guess things have quieted down about Leonard, so we have to focus on another guy, huh?
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Brown is 7 years younger. He will be going into his age 22 season. Bulter's age 22 season was his rookie year and he barely played. Brown played better last year than Bulter did in his second year while 2 years younger. Brown arguably played better in his age 21 season than Butler did in his age 24 season.
Trading Brown for Butler would be shortsighted. Never mind the fact we would have to send out other players to match salary. The Celtics are set up to be contenders for a long time. Let's not trade that away.
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I would like to keep Brown.
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I'd acquire Butler and wouldn't give it much thought. He is a very good 2 way player in the same tier as Irving and Hayward in the league.
It would probably mean that Horford would have to be traded next summer, but I'm ok with taking the championship shot this year.
And I would absolutely trade Brown in the trade if that is what it took.
So basically Butler for Brown, Morris, Yabu, and Nader (I think that is enough salary but if not add Semi).
Post-Trade - Main 2 deep rotation
PG - Irving, Rozier
SG - Butler, Smart
SF - Hayward, Tatum
PF - Horford, Theis
C - Baynes, Williams
That team if everyone is healthy and back to where they were would be a real threat to the Warriors and the very heavy and clear favorites in the East. Even if the Sixers acquired Leonard (for basically Saric, Covington, and 1sts) that C's team would still be the favorites in the East.
You’d last about 30 seconds as an NBA GM. I could at least appreciate the argument of that trade 1-2 seasons ago. But now? C’mon.
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Hell no!!
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No. If Kyrie doesn’t want to be here, trade him.
Curious as to who said he didn't want to be here? The media? A few media clowns pick up a brush to paint this picture and everyone else jumps in to help complete it when Kyrie has NEVER said he doesn't want to be here. Secondly, I wouldn't be so quick to trade the best PG we've had here in Boston since Tiny.
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nope.
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No. Jimmy Butler is what 29 years old coming off meniscus surgery. Let me amend that. Hell no.
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If Kyrie wants his friend here so bad that's fine. They just have to both take big pay cuts. Think of the max we'd give Kyrie. Then they split it somehow.
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Nope. I don't know how you can afford to keep Butler, Irving, Hayward, and Horford under contract. One of those turns in to a short term rental that you have to move, and I'm not giving up Jaylen Brown for that.
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Short answer: No.
Long answer: Nahhhhhh.
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If it means Kyrie's extension, then YES.
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I think DA would probably trade Irving than do that. I'm not sure how they would be able to keep everyone with 4 max salaries.
That being said, I think Irving signs extension with Cs and they keep Brown as well. Brown going into year 3 and could really make "the jump" this year. Might make Butler completely redundant.
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If it means Kyrie's extension, then YES.
Chances are we 'll keep Kyrie even without Butler.
But anyway, let's say we make the trade. What happens then with the lux tax?
payroll in 2019-20
Hayward $32,700,690
Kyrie $32,700,000 (cap projected to be $109 million, 8-year veteran --> 30% of the cap)
Butler $32,700,000 (8-year veteran --> 30% of the cap)
Horford $30,123,015
That's $128,223,705 for 4 players!
Not sure whether Wyc and the rest of the owners would love the idea of trading for Butler.
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I would not trade Jaylen Brown, or Rozier, or Tatum for Butler ATM... All of those guys have gotten exponentially better since their rookie years and are all under 25.
Until one of them plateaus from a skill standpoint I would be asking for the moon for them (AKA not trying to trade them to acquire yet ANOTHER wing).
If it's a talented offensive PF your trading for... then we can talk.
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I'd acquire Butler and wouldn't give it much thought. He is a very good 2 way player in the same tier as Irving and Hayward in the league.
It would probably mean that Horford would have to be traded next summer, but I'm ok with taking the championship shot this year.
And I would absolutely trade Brown in the trade if that is what it took.
So basically Butler for Brown, Morris, Yabu, and Nader (I think that is enough salary but if not add Semi).
Post-Trade - Main 2 deep rotation
PG - Irving, Rozier
SG - Butler, Smart
SF - Hayward, Tatum
PF - Horford, Theis
C - Baynes, Williams
That team if everyone is healthy and back to where they were would be a real threat to the Warriors and the very heavy and clear favorites in the East. Even if the Sixers acquired Leonard (for basically Saric, Covington, and 1sts) that C's team would still be the favorites in the East.
You’d last about 30 seconds as an NBA GM. I could at least appreciate the argument of that trade 1-2 seasons ago. But now? C’mon.
I want to win and that team can actually win, both now and 5 years from now (when Tatum takes over for Horford). It also ensures that Boston keeps Irving. If you don't make the trade and Irving leaves next summer, is that worth while.
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Depends a lot on his knee.
Overall I'd say no given what I know now and my thoughts on how Butler/Kyrie's games would mesh.
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Here's the problem, Butler's contract expires after the end of this season. Well he has a player option but he will likely decline it. Are you willing to pay both Kyrie and Butler max contracts of 37m each? I'd be willing to go that high for Kyrie but not Butler.
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Here's the problem, Butler's contract expires after the end of this season. Well he has a player option but he will likely decline it. Are you willing to pay both Kyrie and Butler max contracts of 37m each? I'd be willing to go that high for Kyrie but not Butler.
neither one of them is getting 37 million as they are both 30% max players and not 35%
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I'm amazed at the number of posters who are comfortable with moving on from Irving. If you believe that you are getting past GSW with Rozier instead of Irving, imo you are way off base. As distasteful as it would be to basically submit to blackmail, getting Irving and Butler here long term is worth Brown. My first preference, of course, would be just to sign up Irving long term at the end of the season without doing anything like this trade. That may or may not be possible.
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I'm amazed at the number of posters who are comfortable with moving on from Irving. If you believe that you are getting past GSW with Rozier instead of Irving, imo you are way off base. As distasteful as it would be to basically submit to blackmail, getting Irving and Butler here long term is worth Brown. My first preference, of course, would be just to sign up Irving long term at the end of the season without doing anything like this trade. That may or may not be possible.
I don't think it's worth sacrificing organizational integrity just to appease Irving. If Irving is willing to leave without Butler then what is going to stop him from asking for more accommodations if we cave in to his demands? What if they can't get over the hump in year 1? Does Kyrie try to pressure the organization to make even more moves if things aren't working with Butler?
I'd rather lose Kyrie at that point. It might mean pushing the window back but I still feel great about our team long term with Jaylen and Tatum. There are also plenty of additional assets that Ainge can use to bring in more talent.
There are other factors we aren't considering too. What if Kyrie's feelings about Butler are independent from the rest of the team? What if Horford and Hayward are frustrated by Kyrie dictating terms? What if Tatum feels the same way. I know he's tight with Kyrie but his relationship with Brown is also very strong. What if Stevens objects too?
Caving in to Irving could be a very slippery slope, especially for a player who hasn't show great durability.
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I'd acquire Butler and wouldn't give it much thought. He is a very good 2 way player in the same tier as Irving and Hayward in the league.
It would probably mean that Horford would have to be traded next summer, but I'm ok with taking the championship shot this year.
And I would absolutely trade Brown in the trade if that is what it took.
So basically Butler for Brown, Morris, Yabu, and Nader (I think that is enough salary but if not add Semi).
Post-Trade - Main 2 deep rotation
PG - Irving, Rozier
SG - Butler, Smart
SF - Hayward, Tatum
PF - Horford, Theis
C - Baynes, Williams
That team if everyone is healthy and back to where they were would be a real threat to the Warriors and the very heavy and clear favorites in the East. Even if the Sixers acquired Leonard (for basically Saric, Covington, and 1sts) that C's team would still be the favorites in the East.
You’d last about 30 seconds as an NBA GM. I could at least appreciate the argument of that trade 1-2 seasons ago. But now? C’mon.
That team is awesome and just about on par with the Warriors. It certainly matches up very well against them, even the small ball lineup where you put in Tatum for Baynes. The tricky part is making the salaries work.
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I think DA would probably trade Irving than do that. I'm not sure how they would be able to keep everyone with 4 max salaries.
That being said, I think Irving signs extension with Cs and they keep Brown as well. Brown going into year 3 and could really make "the jump" this year. Might make Butler completely redundant.
Yes to all this. And if the Celtics get to the Finals this year and at least compete (ideally win!!) I can’t see Irving jumping to another town just so he can play with Butler. He and Brown also seem to like and appreciate each other. I crack up when they do that “third eye” celebration after a great play.
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Jaylen is already a more valuable player than Kyrie.
Having a point guard like Kyrie (or IT) is great to run an offense, but any player on the floor can be that guy. When we had Evan Turner on the floor, we ran the offense through him. A number of wings run their teams offense. Horford, as a PF or Center, does a significant amount of this for us already.
Other than Turner, we haven't had wings to run our offense since Pierce. Crowder wasn't that guy. Brown and Tatum were too inexperienced for much of last year.
That appears to be over for the foreseeable future. Tatum and Brown showed in the playoffs that they are now ready to carry the offense for long stretches. Hayward is a proven ball handler and facilitator.
Don't we want Tatum scoring 25 ppg in 2 years? Shouldn't Jaylen be scoring 20 ppg? Shouldn't Hayward be scoring 20 ppg? Don't we want to give Horford touches too? We don't need a classic, ball dominant point guard any more. A big athletic guard that can knock down 3's and closes all holes on defense is better long term.
For the past several years, all the things that Kyrie is so good at have been desperately needed by this team. By the end of next year, those same traits will just be in the way. We now have 4 other starters who are huge, athletic, can create offense for themselves and others, and can play lockdown defense. Those 4 guys need touches and need shots.
Last year's playoffs were a sneak preview of what can happen. I expect Ainge would move Kyrie before considering moving Jaylen.
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No way. If he wants to play with Butler so badly, let him go the garbage Knicks..
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Jaylen is already a more valuable player than Kyrie.
Having a point guard like Kyrie (or IT) is great to run an offense, but any player on the floor can be that guy. When we had Evan Turner on the floor, we ran the offense through him. A number of wings run their teams offense. Horford, as a PF or Center, does a significant amount of this for us already.
Other than Turner, we haven't had wings to run our offense since Pierce. Crowder wasn't that guy. Brown and Tatum were too inexperienced for much of last year.
That appears to be over for the foreseeable future. Tatum and Brown showed in the playoffs that they are now ready to carry the offense for long stretches. Hayward is a proven ball handler and facilitator.
Don't we want Tatum scoring 25 ppg in 2 years? Shouldn't Jaylen be scoring 20 ppg? Shouldn't Hayward be scoring 20 ppg? Don't we want to give Horford touches too? We don't need a classic, ball dominant point guard any more. A big athletic guard that can knock down 3's and closes all holes on defense is better long term.
For the past several years, all the things that Kyrie is so good at have been desperately needed by this team. By the end of next year, those same traits will just be in the way. We now have 4 other starters who are huge, athletic, can create offense for themselves and others, and can play lockdown defense. Those 4 guys need touches and need shots.
Last year's playoffs were a sneak preview of what can happen. I expect Ainge will move Kyrie.
Wow this post sums up my thinking quite well. Rozier can easily fill the PG role in the future.
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Maybe this is the way to insure Kyrie stays in green. Is it worth it?
Jaylen would have to be resigned and maybe we include Morris and Yausele to shed salary.
Just might work.
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I'm, no.
Not only because I'm as high on Brown as I could ever be on Butler, but because I wouldn't put up with trying to build an championship roster while satisfying the whims of a player. Yes he's a star, but I don't want to deal with a player that won't let the GM bE the best GM they can.
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No. Right now Jaylen is cheap and honestly not too far behind Butler in terms of talent. Also, Jimmy Butler has a bad reputation when it comes to getting along with younger players. Jaylen, on the other hand, is beloved by his team mates and coaching staff.
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If Kyrie is healthy and dumb enough to leave the Celtics at this point...let him go.
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Must've missed the memo where the only Kyrie agrees to re-sign is if the Celts acquire Butler.
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Must've missed the memo where the only way Kyrie agrees to re-sign is if the Celts acquire Butler.
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I love Kyrie. I think he’s the difference between coming close and winning a title. But he’s also the easiest one on the team to replace with a competent player. I think no matter what happens, I play the season out and let the chips fall where they may.
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If the Cs are trading Brown, WE should be the team getting a first in return. And I think Brown will soon be better than Butler anyway.
But yeah, if Kyrie will stay ONLY if the Cs get Butler, I'd probably say goodbye to Kyrie.
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Wasn't this a poll like a month ago? It's not going to happen
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I think people are reading way, way, way, way too much into Kyrie's not going public with his desire to resign next year and putting way, way, way, way too much emphasis into a quick article or two about Butler and Kyrie being friends.
If the front office wasn't confident of Kyrie's return after next season, my guess is he would already be gone.
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Trading Jaylen to appease KyKnee would be utterly insane. Remember Butler is a FA next summer as well.
As far as I'm concerned KyKnee has just as much to prove to us as we do to him. Play at least 60 games this year and all the playoff games and help us come close to or beating GSW then we talk..
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I'm, no.
Not only because I'm as high on Brown as I could ever be on Butler, but because I wouldn't put up with trying to build an championship roster while satisfying the whims of a player. Yes he's a star, but I don't want to deal with a player that won't let the GM bE the best GM they can.
This. Brown is probably a better fit for this roster right now than Butler and he's I expect he'll be almost as good this season anyway.
But your other point is the big one. There is a long history of teams making moves just to appease their star players and it usually doesn't work out. An organization needs a stronger team building philosophy than "whatever our all star wants" to win.
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I get why people are thinking about what we’d do if Kyrie left, but I think we need to let the season play out. All outward signs are that this is a pretty harmonious group. If they get to the Finals, would Kyrie really leave? Is Butler that much more fun to play with?
Also, it might be for show, but it sure looks like Kyrie and Jaylen get along well.
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Nope. If we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we’re not trading him for Butler.
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Nope. If we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we’re not trading him for Butler.
Yeah, this.
Brown is also a better three point shooter than Butler has ever been, and is 7 years younger. This move would be bad. Butler's offence doesn't fit with our team, and his locker-room issues give me pause
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Nope. If we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we’re not trading him for Butler.
Yeah, this.
Brown is also a better three point shooter than Butler has ever been, and is 7 years younger. This move would be bad. Butler's offence doesn't fit with our team, and his locker-room issues give me pause
J and J is our future. I pass on this J. AD is the only one worth J Brown. Tatum will pass AD on the O for sure.
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Nope. If we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we’re not trading him for Butler.
Yeah, this.
Brown is also a better three point shooter than Butler has ever been, and is 7 years younger. This move would be bad. Butler's offence doesn't fit with our team, and his locker-room issues give me pause
J and J is our future. I pass on this J. AD is the only one worth J Brown. Tatum will pass AD on the O for sure.
If you mean offence, then I doubt it. Would be surprised if JT averages 29 over multiple seasons
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Nope. If we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we’re not trading him for Butler.
Yeah, this.
Brown is also a better three point shooter than Butler has ever been, and is 7 years younger. This move would be bad. Butler's offence doesn't fit with our team, and his locker-room issues give me pause
J and J is our future. I pass on this J. AD is the only one worth J Brown. Tatum will pass AD on the O for sure.
If you mean offence, then I doubt it. Would be surprised if JT averages 29 over multiple seasons
Agree 100%, especially since it appears Tatum will be on a team with multiple highly talented offensive players that can score. Just look at the Warriors the last 2 years. The best anyone could do was 26 PPG.
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No. Right now Jaylen is cheap and honestly not too far behind Butler in terms of talent. Also, Jimmy Butler has a bad reputation when it comes to getting along with younger players. Jaylen, on the other hand, is beloved by his team mates and coaching staff.
Maybe it’s just young players that don’t play D?
Actually didn’t Butler work out with Brown last offseason? I thought I remember seeing videos of that.
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Nope. If we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we’re not trading him for Butler.
Yeah, this.
Brown is also a better three point shooter than Butler has ever been, and is 7 years younger. This move would be bad. Butler's offence doesn't fit with our team, and his locker-room issues give me pause
J and J is our future. I pass on this J. AD is the only one worth J Brown. Tatum will pass AD on the O for sure.
If you mean offence, then I doubt it. Would be surprised if JT averages 29 over multiple seasons
Agree 100%, especially since it appears Tatum will be on a team with multiple highly talented offensive players that can score. Just look at the Warriors the last 2 years. The best anyone could do was 26 PPG.
While I’m not going to say that Tatum will be better offensively than AD, I will say that it is perfectly possible for him to be a better offensive player and score less. Is AD a better offensive player than Durant just because he scores more?
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Nope. If we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we’re not trading him for Butler.
Yeah, this.
Brown is also a better three point shooter than Butler has ever been, and is 7 years younger. This move would be bad. Butler's offence doesn't fit with our team, and his locker-room issues give me pause
J and J is our future. I pass on this J. AD is the only one worth J Brown. Tatum will pass AD on the O for sure.
If you mean offence, then I doubt it. Would be surprised if JT averages 29 over multiple seasons
Agree 100%, especially since it appears Tatum will be on a team with multiple highly talented offensive players that can score. Just look at the Warriors the last 2 years. The best anyone could do was 26 PPG.
While I’m not going to say that Tatum will be better offensively than AD, I will say that it is perfectly possible for him to be a better offensive player and score less. Is AD a better offensive player than Durant just because he scores more?
Dang. Should have highlighted the last sentence. I was agreeing on him not scoring 29 PPG. In some areas, Tatum is already ahead of AD offensively but that might have something to do with the positions they play and the positions they were taught to play since childhood.
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The biggest problem with trading for Butler is figuring out how to pay for everyone next summer, where suddenly you'd potentially be looking at three max or near-max deals for Butler, Kyrie, and Horford on top of everyone else. The only way I could see a Butler trade getting done would be if he basically asked out of Minnesota, a package built around Smart/Morris/pick(s) got it done, AND Butler agreed to sign an extension of his current, old-cap max contract after the deal as the price of going to a contender (which would keep his salary commitments relatively affordable). I don't think there's any chance he agrees to give up that much money, so I can't see a trade happening.
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The biggest problem with trading for Butler is figuring out how to pay for everyone next summer, where suddenly you'd potentially be looking at three max or near-max deals for Butler, Kyrie, and Horford on top of everyone else. The only way I could see a Butler trade getting done would be if he basically asked out of Minnesota, a package built around Smart/Morris/pick(s) got it done, AND Butler agreed to sign an extension of his current, old-cap max contract after the deal as the price of going to a contender (which would keep his salary commitments relatively affordable). I don't think there's any chance he agrees to give up that much money, so I can't see a trade happening.
If Horford is opting out next year its to get another contract but at less per year which means he would actually be saving the Celtics money compared to what they would have paid him if he didn't opt out.
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Wow a big gap in votes..the ppl has spoken!!!
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The biggest problem with trading for Butler is figuring out how to pay for everyone next summer, where suddenly you'd potentially be looking at three max or near-max deals for Butler, Kyrie, and Horford on top of everyone else. The only way I could see a Butler trade getting done would be if he basically asked out of Minnesota, a package built around Smart/Morris/pick(s) got it done, AND Butler agreed to sign an extension of his current, old-cap max contract after the deal as the price of going to a contender (which would keep his salary commitments relatively affordable). I don't think there's any chance he agrees to give up that much money, so I can't see a trade happening.
If Horford is opting out next year its to get another contract but at less per year which means he would actually be saving the Celtics money compared to what they would have paid him if he didn't opt out.
Maybe, but if he prioritizes getting paid there are teams who would give him a max or near-max deal. There are going to be too many big-market teams with too much cap space. Boston does have to plan for that possibility.
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I'd acquire Butler and wouldn't give it much thought. He is a very good 2 way player in the same tier as Irving and Hayward in the league.
It would probably mean that Horford would have to be traded next summer, but I'm ok with taking the championship shot this year.
And I would absolutely trade Brown in the trade if that is what it took.
So basically Butler for Brown, Morris, Yabu, and Nader (I think that is enough salary but if not add Semi).
Post-Trade - Main 2 deep rotation
PG - Irving, Rozier
SG - Butler, Smart
SF - Hayward, Tatum
PF - Horford, Theis
C - Baynes, Williams
That team if everyone is healthy and back to where they were would be a real threat to the Warriors and the very heavy and clear favorites in the East. Even if the Sixers acquired Leonard (for basically Saric, Covington, and 1sts) that C's team would still be the favorites in the East.
I'm not mortgaging a potential Eastern Conference / NBA dynasty for 1 year of still-underdog contending status against Golden State. That roster won't win it.
If Kyrie insists, then we can get a lottery pick + at least 1 good player or prospect for him.
Rozier
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Plus Smart, Williams and our Kyrie haul is a very good and still young core moving forward.
We'd also have 3 good-to-elite lottery picks (Sacto, Memphis, Kyrie lottery pick) to use or roll over to ideally go after a PG, a big and another wing. Personally, I don't think Rozier is the answer at PG, and I'd like a PF/C to hedge against Robert Williams not turning into Capela.
EDIT - I would try to keep Kyrie here at nearly any cost- except trading JB or JT.
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Brown and Tatum are untouchable
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I'd acquire Butler and wouldn't give it much thought. He is a very good 2 way player in the same tier as Irving and Hayward in the league.
It would probably mean that Horford would have to be traded next summer, but I'm ok with taking the championship shot this year.
And I would absolutely trade Brown in the trade if that is what it took.
So basically Butler for Brown, Morris, Yabu, and Nader (I think that is enough salary but if not add Semi).
Post-Trade - Main 2 deep rotation
PG - Irving, Rozier
SG - Butler, Smart
SF - Hayward, Tatum
PF - Horford, Theis
C - Baynes, Williams
That team if everyone is healthy and back to where they were would be a real threat to the Warriors and the very heavy and clear favorites in the East. Even if the Sixers acquired Leonard (for basically Saric, Covington, and 1sts) that C's team would still be the favorites in the East.
I'm not mortgaging a potential Eastern Conference / NBA dynasty for 1 year of still-underdog contending status against Golden State. That roster won't win it.
If Kyrie insists, then we can get a lottery pick + at least 1 good player or prospect for him.
Rozier
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Plus Smart, Williams and our Kyrie haul is a very good and still young core moving forward.
We'd also have 3 good-to-elite lottery picks (Sacto, Memphis, Kyrie lottery pick) to use or roll over to ideally go after a PG, a big and another wing. Personally, I don't think Rozier is the answer at PG, and I'd like a PF/C to hedge against Robert Williams not turning into Capela.
EDIT - I would try to keep Kyrie here at nearly any cost- except trading JB or JT.
First, why would you assume it would be 1 year? Second, that team is much better than the current roster this season (and for the foreseeable future) and it isn't close? Jimmy Butler is a much better player than Jaylen Brown. Sure at some point in the future Jaylen Brown will pass him up, but that doesn't mean Jaylen Brown will ever be as good as Jimmy Butler is right now. And Jimmy Butler's age is much more inline with Irving, Hayward, and Horford. Boston should absolutely capitalize on the prime of those 3, rather than hoping that someday Tatum and Brown can be a championship level core.
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Jimmy Butler is nit a much better player than Jaylen Brown
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Jimmy Butler is nit a much better player than Jaylen Brown
This is absurd homerism.
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Brown is closing fast with alot less miles
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I'd acquire Butler and wouldn't give it much thought. He is a very good 2 way player in the same tier as Irving and Hayward in the league.
It would probably mean that Horford would have to be traded next summer, but I'm ok with taking the championship shot this year.
And I would absolutely trade Brown in the trade if that is what it took.
So basically Butler for Brown, Morris, Yabu, and Nader (I think that is enough salary but if not add Semi).
Post-Trade - Main 2 deep rotation
PG - Irving, Rozier
SG - Butler, Smart
SF - Hayward, Tatum
PF - Horford, Theis
C - Baynes, Williams
That team if everyone is healthy and back to where they were would be a real threat to the Warriors and the very heavy and clear favorites in the East. Even if the Sixers acquired Leonard (for basically Saric, Covington, and 1sts) that C's team would still be the favorites in the East.
I'm not mortgaging a potential Eastern Conference / NBA dynasty for 1 year of still-underdog contending status against Golden State. That roster won't win it.
If Kyrie insists, then we can get a lottery pick + at least 1 good player or prospect for him.
Rozier
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Plus Smart, Williams and our Kyrie haul is a very good and still young core moving forward.
We'd also have 3 good-to-elite lottery picks (Sacto, Memphis, Kyrie lottery pick) to use or roll over to ideally go after a PG, a big and another wing. Personally, I don't think Rozier is the answer at PG, and I'd like a PF/C to hedge against Robert Williams not turning into Capela.
EDIT - I would try to keep Kyrie here at nearly any cost- except trading JB or JT.
First, why would you assume it would be 1 year? Second, that team is much better than the current roster this season (and for the foreseeable future) and it isn't close? Jimmy Butler is a much better player than Jaylen Brown. Sure at some point in the future Jaylen Brown will pass him up, but that doesn't mean Jaylen Brown will ever be as good as Jimmy Butler is right now. And Jimmy Butler's age is much more inline with Irving, Hayward, and Horford. Boston should absolutely capitalize on the prime of those 3, rather than hoping that someday Tatum and Brown can be a championship level core.
Because in 1 year you'd have to get rid of 1 of the 4, and Golden State would beat that team this year. They have two top 5 players. Your team doesn't have a top 5 player. It debatably doesn't even have a top 10 player. If Tatum can one day be a top 5 player, that's the timeline to go for.
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Jimmy Butler is nit a much better player than Jaylen Brown
This is absurd homerism.
Jimmy Butler is a better player today, at 30 years old and Jaylen at 21. But Jaylen is on track to be a better player in his prime. JB didn't even come into the league until 22.
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I'd acquire Butler and wouldn't give it much thought. He is a very good 2 way player in the same tier as Irving and Hayward in the league.
It would probably mean that Horford would have to be traded next summer, but I'm ok with taking the championship shot this year.
And I would absolutely trade Brown in the trade if that is what it took.
So basically Butler for Brown, Morris, Yabu, and Nader (I think that is enough salary but if not add Semi).
Post-Trade - Main 2 deep rotation
PG - Irving, Rozier
SG - Butler, Smart
SF - Hayward, Tatum
PF - Horford, Theis
C - Baynes, Williams
That team if everyone is healthy and back to where they were would be a real threat to the Warriors and the very heavy and clear favorites in the East. Even if the Sixers acquired Leonard (for basically Saric, Covington, and 1sts) that C's team would still be the favorites in the East.
I'm not mortgaging a potential Eastern Conference / NBA dynasty for 1 year of still-underdog contending status against Golden State. That roster won't win it.
If Kyrie insists, then we can get a lottery pick + at least 1 good player or prospect for him.
Rozier
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Plus Smart, Williams and our Kyrie haul is a very good and still young core moving forward.
We'd also have 3 good-to-elite lottery picks (Sacto, Memphis, Kyrie lottery pick) to use or roll over to ideally go after a PG, a big and another wing. Personally, I don't think Rozier is the answer at PG, and I'd like a PF/C to hedge against Robert Williams not turning into Capela.
EDIT - I would try to keep Kyrie here at nearly any cost- except trading JB or JT.
First, why would you assume it would be 1 year? Second, that team is much better than the current roster this season (and for the foreseeable future) and it isn't close? Jimmy Butler is a much better player than Jaylen Brown. Sure at some point in the future Jaylen Brown will pass him up, but that doesn't mean Jaylen Brown will ever be as good as Jimmy Butler is right now. And Jimmy Butler's age is much more inline with Irving, Hayward, and Horford. Boston should absolutely capitalize on the prime of those 3, rather than hoping that someday Tatum and Brown can be a championship level core.
This is the age old debate, get vets in here now by trading young talent, or develop the young talent over time.
There's no right answer of course but given that I'm personally more invested and excited about the Tatum-Brown timeline than I am about the Horford-Hayward timeline, I will be patient. But that's just my personal preference.
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I say no.
I would rather have Jaylen Brown over Jimmy Butler personally. I think he's going to be a better player in the long run and it's nice to see young talent developed in-house, at 21 Brown has quite the bright future ahead of him. I bet that Jaylen Brown will be torching us in the future if we trade him (which I highly doubt we will).
If Kyrie decides to leave for NY that would suck but I'm ok with Rozier taking over the point with Tatum, Brown, Hayward and Horford. I'm pretty sure those guys are going to be able to pick up the scoring slack and our defense improves. I'm not even sure we get that much worse.
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Jimmy Butler is nit a much better player than Jaylen Brown
This is absurd homerism.
Jimmy Butler is a better player today, at 30 years old and Jaylen at 21. But Jaylen is on track to be a better player in his prime. JB didn't even come into the league until 22.
If you’re going to bring up an irrelevant point at least get it right. Butler is 28. The guy claimed that Brown isn’t much worse than Butler (now).
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As much as I like Jimmy Butler, the only player for whom I would trade Jaylen Brown is Dwayne Bacon.
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As much as I like Jimmy Butler, the only player for whom I would trade Jaylen Brown is Dwayne Bacon.
Don't know the name but I assume he is one of your mid to late second round or undrafted free agent binkies :laugh:
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I may have posted this before, but if we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we are not trading him for Butler. Kawhi is a tier better than Butler, and he’s younger..
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I may have posted this before, but if we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we are not trading him for Butler. Kawhi is a tier better than Butler, and he’s younger..
I agree but a lot of people here are assuming getting Butler assures both Butler and Kyrie are here long term because they are buddies because otherwise both Kyrie and Butler are going to sign with some other team next year. I don't buy into that. I think if Danny thought Kyrie was going to leave, Kyrie would have been gone this off season. I think, behind the scenes, Kyrie and Danny have a strong relationship and just don't want to go public with anything.
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I may have posted this before, but if we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we are not trading him for Butler. Kawhi is a tier better than Butler, and he’s younger..
He is also an expiring contract, missed almost an entire year with an injury, is rumored to be heading to LA next summer, and Brown wasn't the only major piece being sought by the Spurs. Butler is only the expiring contract and none of those other things but has been linked to Irving by a lot of people.
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I'd acquire Butler and wouldn't give it much thought. He is a very good 2 way player in the same tier as Irving and Hayward in the league.
It would probably mean that Horford would have to be traded next summer, but I'm ok with taking the championship shot this year.
And I would absolutely trade Brown in the trade if that is what it took.
So basically Butler for Brown, Morris, Yabu, and Nader (I think that is enough salary but if not add Semi).
Post-Trade - Main 2 deep rotation
PG - Irving, Rozier
SG - Butler, Smart
SF - Hayward, Tatum
PF - Horford, Theis
C - Baynes, Williams
That team if everyone is healthy and back to where they were would be a real threat to the Warriors and the very heavy and clear favorites in the East. Even if the Sixers acquired Leonard (for basically Saric, Covington, and 1sts) that C's team would still be the favorites in the East.
I'm not mortgaging a potential Eastern Conference / NBA dynasty for 1 year of still-underdog contending status against Golden State. That roster won't win it.
If Kyrie insists, then we can get a lottery pick + at least 1 good player or prospect for him.
Rozier
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford
Plus Smart, Williams and our Kyrie haul is a very good and still young core moving forward.
We'd also have 3 good-to-elite lottery picks (Sacto, Memphis, Kyrie lottery pick) to use or roll over to ideally go after a PG, a big and another wing. Personally, I don't think Rozier is the answer at PG, and I'd like a PF/C to hedge against Robert Williams not turning into Capela.
EDIT - I would try to keep Kyrie here at nearly any cost- except trading JB or JT.
First, why would you assume it would be 1 year? Second, that team is much better than the current roster this season (and for the foreseeable future) and it isn't close? Jimmy Butler is a much better player than Jaylen Brown. Sure at some point in the future Jaylen Brown will pass him up, but that doesn't mean Jaylen Brown will ever be as good as Jimmy Butler is right now. And Jimmy Butler's age is much more inline with Irving, Hayward, and Horford. Boston should absolutely capitalize on the prime of those 3, rather than hoping that someday Tatum and Brown can be a championship level core.
This is the age old debate, get vets in here now by trading young talent, or develop the young talent over time.
There's no right answer of course but given that I'm personally more invested and excited about the Tatum-Brown timeline than I am about the Horford-Hayward timeline, I will be patient. But that's just my personal preference.
I totally get that, but exciting young players often don't develop into what they could be or they could get hurt or they could leave before they are truly ready to compete or they develop well but the team around them isn't good enough or they develop well but just run into a better team.
I'd much rather elevate the current team, which many feel is the best team in the conference already, and take a real shot over the next 3ish seasons (while still keeping Tatum, Smart, Sacto, Mem, etc.). While I'd favor a healthy Golden State against a Boston team comprised of Irving, Butler, Hayward, Tatum, Horford, Baynes, Smart, and Rozier (with Theis and Williams for big man depth), I'd give that team a real shot, and I think there is a very good chance this is the last real year that GS is what they currently are (I don't see them keeping Klay and Dray and frankly Curry and Durant are aging with health concerns). When a team is close, getting it closer makes far too much sense to me.
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Players actually mean something to me. They're not just jerseys and names on a roster. Or "assets". I love Tatum and Brown's games and hope they stay in Boston for the duration.
Winning a title with guys you've brought up from the start is vastly more satisfying than winning with rent-a-players, even when he's a warrior like KG.
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Players actually mean something to me. They're not just jerseys and names on a roster. Or "assets". I love Tatum and Brown's games and hope they stay in Boston for the duration.
Winning a title with guys you've brought up from the start is vastly more satisfying than winning with rent-a-players, even when he's a warrior like KG.
Well said! I would simply rather have Jaylen Brown here than Jimmy Butler.
Do we have a slightly better chance at the title with Jimmy Butler? Maybe. Depends on how much further Brown's development goes this year which I believe is going to be significant. Keep in mind Jimmy Butler's stats would go down if he were playing with Kyrie, Tatum, Hayward and Horford.
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I may have posted this before, but if we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we are not trading him for Butler. Kawhi is a tier better than Butler, and he’s younger..
He is also an expiring contract, missed almost an entire year with an injury, is rumored to be heading to LA next summer, and Brown wasn't the only major piece being sought by the Spurs. Butler is only the expiring contract and none of those other things but has been linked to Irving by a lot of people.
Well, Butler is an expiring contract, has clashed with and undermined teammates, has been rumored to be headed to NY next summer, and due to salary matching purposes we'd need to include at least one other major piece.
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I may have posted this before, but if we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we are not trading him for Butler. Kawhi is a tier better than Butler, and he’s younger..
I agree but a lot of people here are assuming getting Butler assures both Butler and Kyrie are here long term because they are buddies because otherwise both Kyrie and Butler are going to sign with some other team next year. I don't buy into that. I think if Danny thought Kyrie was going to leave, Kyrie would have been gone this off season. I think, behind the scenes, Kyrie and Danny have a strong relationship and just don't want to go public with anything.
Yeah, I don't think Kyrie will leave, either. I base that on the fact that I think he's odd / wacky, but not stupid. He can't look at a situation where he's surrounded by Tatum, Hayward, Brown and Horford and say "I'd rather go to a lottery team".
And, of course, if Kyrie *is* the type of player that would leave a dominant franchise just to play with his buddies, I wouldn't attempt to appease him. Danny and Brad need to stick to their plan, rather than allowing Kyrie to play GM. Kyrie isn't close to Lebron as a player, but even with LBJ we saw how harmful allowing a player-coach-GM can be. Doing that for a lesser player would be franchise suicide.
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So, given the information we’d have when we would have to make a deal, I would certainly say no. However, if we had a crystal ball and knew for sure that Kyrie and Butler would stay if we made the deal, and Kyrie would bolt if we didn’t, then I’d have to say yes.
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I may have posted this before, but if we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we are not trading him for Butler. Kawhi is a tier better than Butler, and he’s younger..
I agree but a lot of people here are assuming getting Butler assures both Butler and Kyrie are here long term because they are buddies because otherwise both Kyrie and Butler are going to sign with some other team next year. I don't buy into that. I think if Danny thought Kyrie was going to leave, Kyrie would have been gone this off season. I think, behind the scenes, Kyrie and Danny have a strong relationship and just don't want to go public with anything.
Yeah, I don't think Kyrie will leave, either. I base that on the fact that I think he's odd / wacky, but not stupid. He can't look at a situation where he's surrounded by Tatum, Hayward, Brown and Horford and say "I'd rather go to a lottery team".
And, of course, if Kyrie *is* the type of player that would leave a dominant franchise just to play with his buddies, I wouldn't attempt to appease him. Danny and Brad need to stick to their plan, rather than allowing Kyrie to play GM. Kyrie isn't close to Lebron as a player, but even with LBJ we saw how harmful allowing a player-coach-GM can be. Doing that for a lesser player would be franchise suicide.
This is key for me. An organization needs more strategy than "keep our star player happy" when they're trying to build a team. Catering to the desires of an individual usually doesn't work out.
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I'd move Jaylen for Butler anytime - regardless of Kyrie's feelings. Butler is a better player.
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I'd move Jaylen for Butler anytime - regardless of Kyrie's feelings. Butler is a better player.
As of this moment, yes. But you have to look at the totality of the situation...age, contract, injury history, talent projection, etc. Butler will be 29 by the start of this season, but he has the knees and milage more of a 33-34 year old. Tom Thibodeau, like many players that he's coached, runs his guys into the ground. He's never exactly been known as a coach who understands minutes, bench usage, and proper rotations. So while he may be turning 29, in a basketball sense, he's much older than that.
Now just look at his talent...he's peaked as a player in my opinion. At 7+ years in the league, he is who he is. And if you break down and rate his game, is he the better overall scorer? Right now, absolutely. But outside of that, I put JB right up there in every other facet of the game with Jimmy Butler. So when you look at it that way and then add in that Brown will only be 22 at the start of the season going into his 3rd year?
No thanks, I'll keep JB and if that means Kyrie leaves, then you have Rozier has insurance. And you play and build around more of the wings than you do the point guard.
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Voted no. figure out another way to trade for butler if he's wanted that badly. too steep for a player with a 2019-2020 player option
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Not sure I'd do it, as I love Brown, but if we did I'd want picks etc coming back alongside Butler.
Brown is already nearly as good, and with huge upside.
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Voted no. figure out another way to trade for butler if he's wanted that badly. too steep for a player with a 2019-2020 player option
More likely it would be Smart, Morris + a pick. Thibs would love Marcus, and he might have a positive effect on Towns and Wiggins. And those guys look like they could use a kick in the pants.
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I may have posted this before, but if we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we are not trading him for Butler. Kawhi is a tier better than Butler, and he’s younger..
I agree but a lot of people here are assuming getting Butler assures both Butler and Kyrie are here long term because they are buddies because otherwise both Kyrie and Butler are going to sign with some other team next year. I don't buy into that. I think if Danny thought Kyrie was going to leave, Kyrie would have been gone this off season. I think, behind the scenes, Kyrie and Danny have a strong relationship and just don't want to go public with anything.
Yeah, I don't think Kyrie will leave, either. I base that on the fact that I think he's odd / wacky, but not stupid. He can't look at a situation where he's surrounded by Tatum, Hayward, Brown and Horford and say "I'd rather go to a lottery team".
And, of course, if Kyrie *is* the type of player that would leave a dominant franchise just to play with his buddies, I wouldn't attempt to appease him. Danny and Brad need to stick to their plan, rather than allowing Kyrie to play GM. Kyrie isn't close to Lebron as a player, but even with LBJ we saw how harmful allowing a player-coach-GM can be. Doing that for a lesser player would be franchise suicide.
How harmful was it? The Cavs made the NBA finals every year Lebron was in Cleveland...
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Does kyrie believe that butler has more future than brown...? Lets see next year who is better
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I may have posted this before, but if we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we are not trading him for Butler. Kawhi is a tier better than Butler, and he’s younger..
I agree but a lot of people here are assuming getting Butler assures both Butler and Kyrie are here long term because they are buddies because otherwise both Kyrie and Butler are going to sign with some other team next year. I don't buy into that. I think if Danny thought Kyrie was going to leave, Kyrie would have been gone this off season. I think, behind the scenes, Kyrie and Danny have a strong relationship and just don't want to go public with anything.
Yeah, I don't think Kyrie will leave, either. I base that on the fact that I think he's odd / wacky, but not stupid. He can't look at a situation where he's surrounded by Tatum, Hayward, Brown and Horford and say "I'd rather go to a lottery team".
And, of course, if Kyrie *is* the type of player that would leave a dominant franchise just to play with his buddies, I wouldn't attempt to appease him. Danny and Brad need to stick to their plan, rather than allowing Kyrie to play GM. Kyrie isn't close to Lebron as a player, but even with LBJ we saw how harmful allowing a player-coach-GM can be. Doing that for a lesser player would be franchise suicide.
How harmful was it? The Cavs made the NBA finals every year Lebron was in Cleveland...
With only one of the most dysfunctional locker rooms in the NBA and a team that is seemingly destined for mediocrity for some time
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I may have posted this before, but if we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we are not trading him for Butler. Kawhi is a tier better than Butler, and he’s younger..
I agree but a lot of people here are assuming getting Butler assures both Butler and Kyrie are here long term because they are buddies because otherwise both Kyrie and Butler are going to sign with some other team next year. I don't buy into that. I think if Danny thought Kyrie was going to leave, Kyrie would have been gone this off season. I think, behind the scenes, Kyrie and Danny have a strong relationship and just don't want to go public with anything.
Yeah, I don't think Kyrie will leave, either. I base that on the fact that I think he's odd / wacky, but not stupid. He can't look at a situation where he's surrounded by Tatum, Hayward, Brown and Horford and say "I'd rather go to a lottery team".
And, of course, if Kyrie *is* the type of player that would leave a dominant franchise just to play with his buddies, I wouldn't attempt to appease him. Danny and Brad need to stick to their plan, rather than allowing Kyrie to play GM. Kyrie isn't close to Lebron as a player, but even with LBJ we saw how harmful allowing a player-coach-GM can be. Doing that for a lesser player would be franchise suicide.
How harmful was it? The Cavs made the NBA finals every year Lebron was in Cleveland...
With only one of the most dysfunctional locker rooms in the NBA and a team that is seemingly destined for mediocrity for some time
they were destined for mediocrity with Irving before James got there. They went from 33 wins to 4 straight NBA Finals including the first championship for the city in 50 years. I'd say it is worth that every single time for every single organization (well maybe not the Warriors right now, but every other organization).
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Voted no. figure out another way to trade for butler if he's wanted that badly. too steep for a player with a 2019-2020 player option
More likely it would be Smart, Morris + a pick. Thibs would love Marcus, and he might have a positive effect on Towns and Wiggins. And those guys look like they could use a kick in the pants.
Unlikely that it would take just one pick and two role players though, neither on a bargain contract
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I may have posted this before, but if we didn’t trade Brown for Kawhi, we are not trading him for Butler. Kawhi is a tier better than Butler, and he’s younger..
He is also an expiring contract, missed almost an entire year with an injury, is rumored to be heading to LA next summer, and Brown wasn't the only major piece being sought by the Spurs. Butler is only the expiring contract and none of those other things but has been linked to Irving by a lot of people.
Well, Butler is an expiring contract, has clashed with and undermined teammates, has been rumored to be headed to NY next summer, and due to salary matching purposes we'd need to include at least one other major piece.
The Butler smearing has really reached a crescendo.
My observation is that he's basically Marcus Smart with talent. If you're willing to put a positive spin on Smart's MANY miscues (fighting fans, humiliating and badgering young Jaylen in practice, smoking weed on IG, breaking his hand midseason punching pictures) than Jimmy Butler talking trash while winning every scrimmage in practice shouldn't be that hard to get over.