Author Topic: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?  (Read 4003 times)

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After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« on: June 02, 2017, 09:38:14 AM »

Offline __ramonezy__

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After watching that game I'm wondering if our stars just aligned to maximize the value of all of our bargaining options, mainly the 2017 & 2018 Nets Picks.

Most of our discussions have been about building for the post-Lebron era. But honestly, these Warriors are a problem. No one builds to reach the Finals... teams build to win. And with that I think our fortunes are brighter than ever before.

If the Cavs are swept, does that make this year's #1 pick the most valuable in recent memory?
 
My opinion the answer is a resounding 'YES'. ALL teams will begin a rebuild around younger stars - making previous middle-aged stars available (Aldridges, Westbrooks, Loves)... especially those out West.

Re: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2017, 09:46:08 AM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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It is a comfort to know, and I keep telling myself this, that we have the BKN 2018 as well as our own. If we do take the team in a new direction we would be extremely far ahead. Adding 2 top 5 picks in next years draft to: Jaylen Brown and Fultz is pretty nasty. But the most important piece/s would be what we could add via trade with our current roster(except Brown/Fultz/picks).......

Re: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2017, 10:03:59 AM »

Offline footey

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I think it's a reminder of how important it is for us to focus on building our team around the "kids" (Brown, Fultz, Zizic, Yabu, 2018 BKLN, maybe Rozier, maybe Smart) and not the present.  The nucleus of GSW is 27-28 years old (Durant, Thompson, Curry, Green).  Those guys have another 4 years of domination left.  Hopefully that is all.

CLE, on the other hand, is tied to LBJ, who is 32. You can't realistically expect him to keep this up for more than another 2 years before father time takes over.  Tom Brady is a pocket quarterback who doesn't rely on his fast twitch legs to keep up his excellence. Lebron does.  Once he slows down, those drives will turn into offensive fouls, like they did last night when Durant was covering him.

Does the addition of Hayward give us a realistic chance of upsetting the Cavs next season? The Warriors?

Re: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2017, 10:07:33 AM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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Does the addition of Hayward give us a realistic chance of upsetting the Cavs next season? The Warriors?
I don't think that's realistic, unless something exceptional happens, like Brown takes a quantum leap forward or Fultz is an all-start right out of the box. And even then it's iffy. Lebron and Irving are just lightyears better than anyone else in the East as a duo.

Re: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2017, 10:21:41 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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imhope the valuemof KO and Bradley rose

so,we,can get a nice

first round pick for that pair


Re: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2017, 10:43:32 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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I think it's a reminder of how important it is for us to focus on building our team around the "kids" (Brown, Fultz, Zizic, Yabu, 2018 BKLN, maybe Rozier, maybe Smart) and not the present.  The nucleus of GSW is 27-28 years old (Durant, Thompson, Curry, Green).  Those guys have another 4 years of domination left.  Hopefully that is all.

CLE, on the other hand, is tied to LBJ, who is 32. You can't realistically expect him to keep this up for more than another 2 years before father time takes over. Tom Brady is a pocket quarterback who doesn't rely on his fast twitch legs to keep up his excellence. Lebron does.  Once he slows down, those drives will turn into offensive fouls, like they did last night when Durant was covering him.

Does the addition of Hayward give us a realistic chance of upsetting the Cavs next season? The Warriors?
I think you are being optimistic on those timelines.  GS looks like they could dominate for at least the next 5 years.  LeBron likewise could have a lot more than 2 years left to his peak.  He is playing the best playoff basketball of his career.  Other superstars have been at least productive into their late 30's (Dirk, Duncan).  No reason LeBron can't do the same, unless his 100-game seasons starting catching up to him.

Re: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2017, 11:03:27 AM »

Offline wiley

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Last night showed that we'd better keep both Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart.  Smart doesn't need to improve his jumper for like 2 or 3 more years, when we finally break through to challenge GS in the finals.  And then to beat Golden State, gonna need to have both Smart and Bradley for defense.  Even if one or both of them comes off the bench at big minutes.   

3 years from now verses GS in finals:
Fultz, Smart
Bradley, JB, Smart
Hayward, JB, Smart
Horford, Semi Ojeyle or better
Zizic, Bamba/Ayton

Golden State will be down from a big 4 to a big 3 who will be entering the downside of primes...and Smart will be the best bench player in the league.

Re: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2017, 11:53:31 AM »

Offline playdream

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Last night showed that we'd better keep both Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart.  Smart doesn't need to improve his jumper for like 2 or 3 more years, when we finally break through to challenge GS in the finals.  And then to beat Golden State, gonna need to have both Smart and Bradley for defense.  Even if one or both of them comes off the bench at big minutes.   

3 years from now verses GS in finals:
Fultz, Smart
Bradley, JB, Smart
Hayward, JB, Smart
Horford, Semi Ojeyle or better
Zizic, Bamba/Ayton

Golden State will be down from a big 4 to a big 3 who will be entering the downside of primes...and Smart will be the best bench player in the league.
The lineup fits the picture, except AB can't be retained unless he is willing to take about 10M as discount, i think TR can replace him and JB start at 2

Re: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2017, 01:08:22 PM »

Offline aefgogreen

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I think at the end of the day, Ainge will listen to offers, but no one will be willing to trade anyone that we would trade the #1 pick for.

Re: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2017, 01:54:25 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Last night showed that when they have to defend more than one top scoring threat, CLE's defense really is as porous as it looked all season.

We lost to CLE in the ECF because our only one elite scorer was injured and then out for the rest of the series.

In the one game he played semi-effectively, we lost because they doubled him and dared the rest of the C's to make shots and they did not.

The one game we beat CLE is the one where all of our shooters (especially Marcus) went insane, shooting 45% on a zillion threes (and Lebron had a rare bad game).

Otherwise, we clearly just did not have the offensive firepower to keep up.

None of this was really new information or a surprise.  The 'book' on how to defend the Cs hasn't changed since the prior time we met Cavs in the playoffs.  Just swarm IT and dare the rest of the team to beat you.  If the rest of the team makes shots, BOS can still win.  But that doesn't happen consistently enough.  ATL used the same strategy last year.  Good teams use it during the regular season.  As long as the Cs have only one real scoring threat, that isn't going to change.  Danny knows this.  He has stated very clearly multiple times that we need another go-to, consistent scoring threat to put alongside Thomas.  Thomas said the same thing himself before the season even started.

The Warriors present exactly the solution.  They have 3 players on the floor at all times that can create their own shot and almost all their players are good passers and good shooters off the catch.  They force CLE to have to defend man-for-man.  And that's where guys like J.R. Smith, Love & Irving suddenly get exposed for the sub-par defenders that they are.

CLE also has a powerful, multi-faceted offense, but GSW's guys are mostly all much, much better defenders.   Curry is kinda the Warrior's only sub-par defender among their main rotation.  So they can at least slow CLE down while CLE can't do anything to stop GSW.

Our makeup is that we have a lot of above-average defenders, but all that serves to do against such teams is to slow them down a little.  Unless we upgrade our offense, we can't keep up with their scoring unless we get magic super-hot-shooting days like in Game 3.

If we can add even just one top scoring threat, that alone will nullify the current 'double-team-IT' strategy.  If we add or develop another, then that puts us in the same category on offense as these two teams.   And obviously, we want to do that without dropping off too much on defense.

I disagree with those who want to just turtle for 3-5 years, waiting for Lebron to get old.  Heck with that.  Make improvements where it makes sense without compromising the long term.   The NBA is a match up league and bad match ups tend to amplify the real differences in talent.  We aren't really as far off in talent as the scoreboard results looked.  We just match up very poorly.   

If we add Hayward and we can get someone like Brown/Fultz to emerge as a real scoring threat then that totally changes how Cleveland has to defend us.    And adding some size we can draw upon when needed would also make a big difference.  And of course, being healthy for the end-game is a big factor.

The fact that CLE had 9 days of rest and was pretty much 100% healthy at the start of the ECF compared to our team being battered and bruised and having no time to rest was a real factor here that folks aren't really talking about.

Maybe it doesn't all come together by next year.  But with a little luck, I think it can very soon after that. 
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Re: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2017, 07:04:45 PM »

Offline mctyson

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After watching that game I'm wondering if our stars just aligned to maximize the value of all of our bargaining options, mainly the 2017 & 2018 Nets Picks.

Most of our discussions have been about building for the post-Lebron era. But honestly, these Warriors are a problem. No one builds to reach the Finals... teams build to win. And with that I think our fortunes are brighter than ever before.

If the Cavs are swept, does that make this year's #1 pick the most valuable in recent memory?
 
My opinion the answer is a resounding 'YES'. ALL teams will begin a rebuild around younger stars - making previous middle-aged stars available (Aldridges, Westbrooks, Loves)... especially those out West.

No.  Its value is constant.  You can (in theory) only get the best player in any draft with the #1 pick.  Over time, it's clear that more #1 picks are better than any other picks.

So its value is the same.

Re: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2017, 07:32:27 PM »

Offline bknova

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After watching that game I'm wondering if our stars just aligned to maximize the value of all of our bargaining options, mainly the 2017 & 2018 Nets Picks.

Most of our discussions have been about building for the post-Lebron era. But honestly, these Warriors are a problem. No one builds to reach the Finals... teams build to win. And with that I think our fortunes are brighter than ever before.

If the Cavs are swept, does that make this year's #1 pick the most valuable in recent memory?
 
My opinion the answer is a resounding 'YES'. ALL teams will begin a rebuild around younger stars - making previous middle-aged stars available (Aldridges, Westbrooks, Loves)... especially those out West.


If the Cavs are swept or even lose in 5 or even 6, you have to make the pick. No question.  If the Cavs are swept, it goes to show how light years ahead of everyone in the league the Warriors are and how no combination of George/Butler/Hayward is gonna win you a championship, short of injury luck.  You make the pick, take Fultz and build for the long haul.  No question about it.

Re: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2017, 07:34:00 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
We lost to CLE in the ECF because our only one elite scorer was injured and then out for the rest of the series.

I think we lost because of the above and we only have one elite scorer.  CLE has a clear talent edge.

Re: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2017, 11:22:17 PM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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imhope the valuemof KO and Bradley rose

so,we,can get a nice

first round pick for that pair



lol
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: After Last Night, Does the value of the #1 pick skyrocket?
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2017, 11:37:50 PM »

Offline ThaPreacher

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Last night showed that we'd better keep both Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart.  Smart doesn't need to improve his jumper for like 2 or 3 more years, when we finally break through to challenge GS in the finals.  And then to beat Golden State, gonna need to have both Smart and Bradley for defense.  Even if one or both of them comes off the bench at big minutes.   

3 years from now verses GS in finals:
Fultz, Smart
Bradley, JB, Smart
Hayward, JB, Smart
Horford, Semi Ojeyle or better
Zizic, Bamba/Ayton

Golden State will be down from a big 4 to a big 3 who will be entering the downside of primes...and Smart will be the best bench player in the league.

Smart needed to improve his jumper 2 to 3 years ago!!!!!  He has no midrange jumper, struggles to finish near the rim, and his three ball is like your mama's cooking: looks ugly, smells ugly and when you get around to eating it, it tastes even worse.

He should be shooting as we speak.  Practicing. Shooting. Practicing.

He is already tough!  Plays defense! Is a Physical rebounding guard.  But he is a liablity to our offense.  Makes me pine for Rondo, and take out- when your mama is cooking of course.
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