Author Topic: What will a package of brown and rozier get us?  (Read 7433 times)

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Re: What will a package of brown get us
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2018, 09:19:27 PM »

Offline 10610786d

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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game. 

I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.

And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.

Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.

To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?

He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.

It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.

Precisely.

I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.

Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops.  Yes, rozier the other guy.  As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him.  His basketball IQ is crazy bad.  That’s not a good sign for a star.

You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate.  Browns feel for the game is awful.  And I keep saying it because it’s true.  I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.

And people keep calling browna future star.  He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.

What are your thoughts on Rozier then?

I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...

Re: What will a package of brown get us
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2018, 09:29:35 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game. 

I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.

And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.

Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.

To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?

He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.

It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.

Precisely.

I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.

Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops.  Yes, rozier the other guy.  As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him.  His basketball IQ is crazy bad.  That’s not a good sign for a star.

You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate.  Browns feel for the game is awful.  And I keep saying it because it’s true.  I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.

And people keep calling browna future star.  He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.

What are your thoughts on Rozier then?

I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much

Re: What will a package of brown and rozier get us?
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2018, 09:33:26 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Both brown and rozier are inconsistent at best.  I don’t normally call for getting rid of players I think are not good but neither is a championship style player.  Give me guys that are limited but play within themselves and the team and are consistent over guys that are athletic and erratic.

Re: What will a package of brown and rozier get us?
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2018, 09:34:48 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Both brown and rozier are inconsistent at best.  I don’t normally call for getting rid of players I think are not good but neither is a championship style player.  Give me guys that are limited but play within themselves and the team and are consistent over guys that are athletic and erratic.
It's a good thing Danny and Brad know what they are doing and completely disagree with you.

Re: What will a package of brown get us
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2018, 09:36:58 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game. 

I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.

And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.

Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.

To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?

He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.

It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.

Precisely.

I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.

Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops.  Yes, rozier the other guy.  As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him.  His basketball IQ is crazy bad.  That’s not a good sign for a star.

You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate.  Browns feel for the game is awful.  And I keep saying it because it’s true.  I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.

And people keep calling browna future star.  He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.

What are your thoughts on Rozier then?

I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much
Bench or not you could say the same thing about brown.  He’s not so good as a complimentary player.  And the point you’re missing is that neither is good enough to be a high usage player long term.

Re: What will a package of brown and rozier get us?
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2018, 09:38:01 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Both brown and rozier are inconsistent at best.  I don’t normally call for getting rid of players I think are not good but neither is a championship style player.  Give me guys that are limited but play within themselves and the team and are consistent over guys that are athletic and erratic.
It's a good thing Danny and Brad know what they are doing and completely disagree with you.
We shall see abou that.

Re: What will a package of brown get us
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2018, 09:49:16 PM »

Offline 10610786d

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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game. 

I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.

And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.

Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.

To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?

He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.

It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.

Precisely.

I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.

Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops.  Yes, rozier the other guy.  As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him.  His basketball IQ is crazy bad.  That’s not a good sign for a star.

You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate.  Browns feel for the game is awful.  And I keep saying it because it’s true.  I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.

And people keep calling browna future star.  He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.

What are your thoughts on Rozier then?

I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much

That is true. But we do have plenty of playmaking options elsewhere - Horford, Tatum, Hayward, even Brown. My view is we could get Brown more comfortable just letting him be Westbrook on the second unit I guess...

Re: What will a package of brown get us
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2018, 09:52:13 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game. 

I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.

And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.

Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.

To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?

He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.

It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.

Precisely.

I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.

Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops.  Yes, rozier the other guy.  As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him.  His basketball IQ is crazy bad.  That’s not a good sign for a star.

You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate.  Browns feel for the game is awful.  And I keep saying it because it’s true.  I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.

And people keep calling browna future star.  He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.

What are your thoughts on Rozier then?

I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much
Bench or not you could say the same thing about brown.  He’s not so good as a complimentary player.  And the point you’re missing is that neither is good enough to be a high usage player long term.
Brown was a terrific high usage player all last year as a #2 scoring option. He was also the best all around player on the team in the playoffs and scored 30+ twice. If all the players you love actually showed up to play in game 6 vs Cleveland, the C's would have been in the Finals. Know who showed up that night, Rozier and Brown.

Re: What will a package of brown and rozier get us?
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2018, 09:54:51 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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at this rate they may get you a bag of chips and a bottle of coke.

Re: What will a package of brown get us
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2018, 09:55:47 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game. 

I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.

And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.

Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.

To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?

He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.

It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.

Precisely.

I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.

Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops.  Yes, rozier the other guy.  As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him.  His basketball IQ is crazy bad.  That’s not a good sign for a star.

You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate.  Browns feel for the game is awful.  And I keep saying it because it’s true.  I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.

And people keep calling browna future star.  He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.

What are your thoughts on Rozier then?

I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much
Bench or not you could say the same thing about brown.  He’s not so good as a complimentary player.  And the point you’re missing is that neither is good enough to be a high usage player long term.
Brown was a terrific high usage player all last year as a #2 scoring option. He was also the best all around player on the team in the playoffs and scored 30+ twice. If all the players you love actually showed up to play in game 6 vs Cleveland, the C's would have been in the Finals. Know who showed up that night, Rozier and Brown.
Yeah, but they’ve both completely regressed and show no signs of any ability to adapt to their new roles. Brown has shown no ability to be a high usage player on a true contender is what I think droopdog was saying, and I can’t see how that’s a disagreeable point 
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Re: What will a package of brown get us
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2018, 10:04:05 PM »

Offline 10610786d

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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game. 

I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.

And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.

Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.

To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?

He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.

It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.

Precisely.

I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.

Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops.  Yes, rozier the other guy.  As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him.  His basketball IQ is crazy bad.  That’s not a good sign for a star.

You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate.  Browns feel for the game is awful.  And I keep saying it because it’s true.  I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.

And people keep calling browna future star.  He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.

What are your thoughts on Rozier then?

I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much
Bench or not you could say the same thing about brown.  He’s not so good as a complimentary player.  And the point you’re missing is that neither is good enough to be a high usage player long term.
Brown was a terrific high usage player all last year as a #2 scoring option. He was also the best all around player on the team in the playoffs and scored 30+ twice. If all the players you love actually showed up to play in game 6 vs Cleveland, the C's would have been in the Finals. Know who showed up that night, Rozier and Brown.
Yeah, but they’ve both completely regressed and show no signs of any ability to adapt to their new roles. Brown has shown no ability to be a high usage player on a true contender is what I think droopdog was saying, and I can’t see how that’s a disagreeable point

Brown has been important to the defense, Brad would just throw him on someone like Kawhii.

Re: What will a package of brown get us
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2018, 10:46:32 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game. 

I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.

And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.

Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.

To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?

He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.

It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.

Precisely.

I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.

Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops.  Yes, rozier the other guy.  As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him.  His basketball IQ is crazy bad.  That’s not a good sign for a star.

You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate.  Browns feel for the game is awful.  And I keep saying it because it’s true.  I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.

And people keep calling browna future star.  He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.

What are your thoughts on Rozier then?

I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much
Bench or not you could say the same thing about brown.  He’s not so good as a complimentary player.  And the point you’re missing is that neither is good enough to be a high usage player long term.
Brown was a terrific high usage player all last year as a #2 scoring option. He was also the best all around player on the team in the playoffs and scored 30+ twice. If all the players you love actually showed up to play in game 6 vs Cleveland, the C's would have been in the Finals. Know who showed up that night, Rozier and Brown.
Yeah, but they’ve both completely regressed and show no signs of any ability to adapt to their new roles. Brown has shown no ability to be a high usage player on a true contender is what I think droopdog was saying, and I can’t see how that’s a disagreeable point
What the hell was he last year? He was the best player on the team in the playoffs that was one quarter away from the Finals when he was a high usage player at 21 years old. If ANYONE showed up for game 6 against Cleveland besides Rozier and Brown, the C's were in the Finals. No one. Not Morris, Not Horford. Not Smart. Not Tatum. Not Baynes. No one showed up to play in that game but high usage players Rozier and Brown almost brought that team to a series clinching win. Everyone seems to remember game 7 and forget game 6. Fact is Boston should have closed that series out in 6 except only Brown and Rozier played well and they were excellent.

Re: What will a package of brown and rozier get us?
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2018, 11:53:50 PM »

Offline byennie

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Brown, Rozier and Smart for a bonafide star. Otherwise, no.

If we can get a guy who's clearly the best player in the trade and can be kept long term, then great. Those 3 guys are going to make over $30M starting next year, and over $50M/year after that combined. We could use a veteran and I think Wanamaker can play.

Smart, Brown and Williams for Gobert? DPOY with 5 foot range still works in this league?

Re: What will a package of brown get us
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2018, 06:39:24 AM »

Online Moranis

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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game. 

I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.

And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.

Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.

To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?

He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.

It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.

Precisely.

I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.

Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops.  Yes, rozier the other guy.  As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him.  His basketball IQ is crazy bad.  That’s not a good sign for a star.

You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate.  Browns feel for the game is awful.  And I keep saying it because it’s true.  I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.

And people keep calling browna future star.  He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
I don't know about touches, but he has more shots then both Hayward and Horford.  He also has more attempts per game then he had last year.  Irving is the guy whose attempts are lower than last year.  And even things like USG aren't much different than last year.  The touches are there for Brown, he just isn't utilizing them.
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Re: What will a package of brown get us
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2018, 07:22:26 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game. 

I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.

And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.

Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.

To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?

He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.

It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.

Precisely.

I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.

Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops.  Yes, rozier the other guy.  As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him.  His basketball IQ is crazy bad.  That’s not a good sign for a star.

You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate.  Browns feel for the game is awful.  And I keep saying it because it’s true.  I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.

And people keep calling browna future star.  He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
I don't know about touches, but he has more shots then both Hayward and Horford.  He also has more attempts per game then he had last year.  Irving is the guy whose attempts are lower than last year.  And even things like USG aren't much different than last year.  The touches are there for Brown, he just isn't utilizing them.
Exactly. His FGA is up by the smallest amount and he's even playing almost 2 less minutes than last season. However, his splits are truly abysmal. 36/27/65 are worse numbers than Smart's over his entire career.
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