Lauri Markkanen

[smokeablount]

I consider Markkanen a center and not a forward.

The center position is where he has the largest matchup advantage. His perimeter game is better contained by the SFs & combo forwards that now occupy the PF position. Markkanen's offensive talent plays to their defensive strengths and does not cause enough advantages there. However, when he is matched up against slower centers who prefer to stay in the paint than venture out onto the perimeter -- that is when Markkanen's offensive talent is at it's utmost.

Markkanen does have some defensive issues at the center position but the added offense that he provides is far greater than the defensive negatives. It is a net advantage for him and his team. That is why he should play center.

I've said it for awhile now -- I believe Markkanen could be a game-changing force at the center position in a similar way that Steph Curry was at the PG position with their respective advantages in outside shooting and overall scoring. That Markkanen can change the center position, how it is commonly defined and viewed in the same vein that Steph Curry changed the PG position and how it is commonly viewed.

Markkanen's shooting is only part of the advantage. The other is his speed and his ability to drive on slower players. This will allow him to completely change the dynamics of the floor / of spacing in a way that guys like Brook Lopez are unable to.

Markkanen has the talent to be one of the best players in the league if he is used properly (as a quick five offensive oriented center). Unfortunately for him, Chicago has continued to put him in disadvantageous positions and thus failed to properly exhibit his talents.

Brad does like mobile European bigs. He does have a type in that regard (Faverani, Theis, Yabusele, Zizic). But Brad's system asks a lot from bigs at both ends. They have to have a High BBIQ. They need to be vocal on D, be able to QB a defense and call out switches. They have to be comfortable making reads on offense at the top of the circle and then make the right pass. On offense, I think Lauri could get to that point. What I do worry about is his lateral agility to handle defensive rotations, switches, and scram switches. And with Brad there has to be a baseline ability to understand these concepts that he can build upon or else you're just trying to teach a guy from the ground up and we don't have that kind of time. Dragan Bender, another player with a similar profile might be a better choice.

Come on, it's gotta be time to give up on Bender by now.

Don't misunderstand me here. I'm not saying I love Bender here. That's not the argument in this thread. The argument is whether or not Lauri Markannen can do what's required in CBS' system at both ends. I'm not sure he can. Bender is just a player with a similar profile who I believe better fits the mold. FWIW, I wouldn't be averse to Bender on a minimum deal just to see what he has but I'm not dying on that hill.

I think he can be a rich man's Kelly Olynik, a very very rich man's version if developed correctly and played to his strengths.  He's shown in flashes that he has an All Star ceiling if he pans out.

I'd take a risk on that kind of player in his very early 20s.  Bender I don't think is an NBA player atm.

My concern is that none of his strengths include being able to backstop a defense as a starter. As a backup or change of pace guy, sure. But you can't put him out there at the primary big spot and ask him to call out defensive rotations in Brad's system. There's just no evidence to suggest that he can do that.

You are probably right, but he's 22, and he does a ton of things well, and is kind of a unicorn.  I don't believe that just because there's no evidence that he can direct a defense, that it isn't possible.  He'll never be a rim protector, but I think he's ok and can improve. To me, the Q is, what does he cost? 

Does the cost to acquire him price in that he's supposed to be a lockdown defender?  Because if so, he's blatantly a future all star caliber guy that is very expensive?  But if he doesn't have this skill on D yet but DA thinks it can be developed, and he is a being priced as a disgruntled offense-only guy, that sounds like the type of player/asset I would absolutely buy low on. 

That's why to me, we need to know what he costs (that's why I've thrown out what I'd offer) and we also need to know what the cost implications of an acquisition are, as he's due a new deal.

[KGs Knee]

Chicago is highly unlikely to give up on Lauri unless they are getting what the team trading for him might currently view as an overpay.  I don't think they're anywhere to close to ready to take back nickles on the dollar given what they invested in him.

The Bulls recently hired a new VP and GM, and I suspect before the next season starts, whenever that is, they'll also have a new coach.  They have every reason to let this play out if all they can get back are middling picks/prospects.

[Csfan1984]

So it looks like Lauri Markkanen is unhappy in Chicago. 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/lauri-markkanen-wants-off-bulls-if-they-dont-make-big-changes/

Any chance we could swing a deal for him?  I wouldn't give the Memphis pick because I want a shot at Vernon Carey and if we cant get him I want Isaiah Stewart.  So keeping the 17th pick we still have picks 26 and 30, plus players.

Seems like noise to fill a sports column. The Bulls have a new GM and we should expect a roster shake up. This may or may not involve Markkanen getting traded but I do not suspect the Bulls just move him because he isn't happy.

Its hard to figure a package the Cs could put together that would incite the Bulls. One team that might make sense would be the Hawks. If they do not want to pay Collins maybe they flip him for Markkanen and additional assets.

I kind of agree. Collins is a very close match to a young Karl Malone while Mark is a young Dirk. Depending on the offense you could go either way.

Holy ridiculously over rated player comparisons Batman!

I'm not even sure John Collins is a starter in the NBA. He's great at putting up numbers on bad teams, but so were Tony Wroten Jr. and Jahlil Okafor.

If you look age, numbers and style of play including very close measurements they are very similar at the same points in their careers. Look it up. Karl Malone and Collins are scary similar. And Mark has an extremely good offensive game for a big when you give him the ball.

Do yourself a favor and look at old stuff and then these players. It will make you want them more. Though not saying they are going to be the same level players, right now they are tracking decently.

[gouki88]

So it looks like Lauri Markkanen is unhappy in Chicago. 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/lauri-markkanen-wants-off-bulls-if-they-dont-make-big-changes/

Any chance we could swing a deal for him?  I wouldn't give the Memphis pick because I want a shot at Vernon Carey and if we cant get him I want Isaiah Stewart.  So keeping the 17th pick we still have picks 26 and 30, plus players.

Seems like noise to fill a sports column. The Bulls have a new GM and we should expect a roster shake up. This may or may not involve Markkanen getting traded but I do not suspect the Bulls just move him because he isn't happy.

Its hard to figure a package the Cs could put together that would incite the Bulls. One team that might make sense would be the Hawks. If they do not want to pay Collins maybe they flip him for Markkanen and additional assets.

I kind of agree. Collins is a very close match to a young Karl Malone while Mark is a young Dirk. Depending on the offense you could go either way.

Holy ridiculously over rated player comparisons Batman!

I'm not even sure John Collins is a starter in the NBA. He's great at putting up numbers on bad teams, but so were Tony Wroten Jr. and Jahlil Okafor.

Neither Wroten nor Okafor ever put up anything near 20/10/2 on an EFG% of 61% and a TS% of 64%. Collins is one of the best offensive young big men in the entire NBA. He nearly had shooting splits of 60/40/80 this year, and he’s only 22.

Hardly the same as Okafor’s one year of mediocre production and Wroten, who started less than 25% of his 124 games

[Monkhouse]

Lauri isn't starting material?

I would love facts/stats to provide this, because those statements couldn't be more far from the truth.

[Somebody]

So it looks like Lauri Markkanen is unhappy in Chicago. 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/lauri-markkanen-wants-off-bulls-if-they-dont-make-big-changes/

Any chance we could swing a deal for him?  I wouldn't give the Memphis pick because I want a shot at Vernon Carey and if we cant get him I want Isaiah Stewart.  So keeping the 17th pick we still have picks 26 and 30, plus players.

Seems like noise to fill a sports column. The Bulls have a new GM and we should expect a roster shake up. This may or may not involve Markkanen getting traded but I do not suspect the Bulls just move him because he isn't happy.

Its hard to figure a package the Cs could put together that would incite the Bulls. One team that might make sense would be the Hawks. If they do not want to pay Collins maybe they flip him for Markkanen and additional assets.

I kind of agree. Collins is a very close match to a young Karl Malone while Mark is a young Dirk. Depending on the offense you could go either way.

Holy ridiculously over rated player comparisons Batman!

I'm not even sure John Collins is a starter in the NBA. He's great at putting up numbers on bad teams, but so were Tony Wroten Jr. and Jahlil Okafor.

Neither Wroten nor Okafor ever put up anything near 20/10/2 on an EFG% of 61% and a TS% of 64%. Collins is one of the best offensive young big men in the entire NBA. He nearly had shooting splits of 60/40/80 this year, and he’s only 22.

Hardly the same as Okafor’s one year of mediocre production and Wroten, who started less than 25% of his 124 games

^this. His defence is craptastic, but a modern Amare Stoudemire definitely has a place in the NBA. And the Hawks have a player who might become the modern iteration of Steve Nash

[gouki88]

So it looks like Lauri Markkanen is unhappy in Chicago. 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/lauri-markkanen-wants-off-bulls-if-they-dont-make-big-changes/

Any chance we could swing a deal for him?  I wouldn't give the Memphis pick because I want a shot at Vernon Carey and if we cant get him I want Isaiah Stewart.  So keeping the 17th pick we still have picks 26 and 30, plus players.

Seems like noise to fill a sports column. The Bulls have a new GM and we should expect a roster shake up. This may or may not involve Markkanen getting traded but I do not suspect the Bulls just move him because he isn't happy.

Its hard to figure a package the Cs could put together that would incite the Bulls. One team that might make sense would be the Hawks. If they do not want to pay Collins maybe they flip him for Markkanen and additional assets.

I kind of agree. Collins is a very close match to a young Karl Malone while Mark is a young Dirk. Depending on the offense you could go either way.

Holy ridiculously over rated player comparisons Batman!

I'm not even sure John Collins is a starter in the NBA. He's great at putting up numbers on bad teams, but so were Tony Wroten Jr. and Jahlil Okafor.

Neither Wroten nor Okafor ever put up anything near 20/10/2 on an EFG% of 61% and a TS% of 64%. Collins is one of the best offensive young big men in the entire NBA. He nearly had shooting splits of 60/40/80 this year, and he’s only 22.

Hardly the same as Okafor’s one year of mediocre production and Wroten, who started less than 25% of his 124 games

^this. His defence is craptastic, but a modern Amare Stoudemire definitely has a place in the NBA. And the Hawks have a player who might become the modern iteration of Steve Nash

Now they just need a modern-day Matrix power wing! Collins is very similar to Stat though, good call. Definitely not sure about him being like the Mailman

[RodyTur10]

So it looks like Lauri Markkanen is unhappy in Chicago. 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/lauri-markkanen-wants-off-bulls-if-they-dont-make-big-changes/

Any chance we could swing a deal for him?  I wouldn't give the Memphis pick because I want a shot at Vernon Carey and if we cant get him I want Isaiah Stewart.  So keeping the 17th pick we still have picks 26 and 30, plus players.

Seems like noise to fill a sports column. The Bulls have a new GM and we should expect a roster shake up. This may or may not involve Markkanen getting traded but I do not suspect the Bulls just move him because he isn't happy.

Its hard to figure a package the Cs could put together that would incite the Bulls. One team that might make sense would be the Hawks. If they do not want to pay Collins maybe they flip him for Markkanen and additional assets.

I kind of agree. Collins is a very close match to a young Karl Malone while Mark is a young Dirk. Depending on the offense you could go either way.

Holy ridiculously over rated player comparisons Batman!

I'm not even sure John Collins is a starter in the NBA. He's great at putting up numbers on bad teams, but so were Tony Wroten Jr. and Jahlil Okafor.

Neither Wroten nor Okafor ever put up anything near 20/10/2 on an EFG% of 61% and a TS% of 64%. Collins is one of the best offensive young big men in the entire NBA. He nearly had shooting splits of 60/40/80 this year, and he’s only 22.

Hardly the same as Okafor’s one year of mediocre production and Wroten, who started less than 25% of his 124 games

^this. His defence is craptastic, but a modern Amare Stoudemire definitely has a place in the NBA. And the Hawks have a player who might become the modern iteration of Steve Nash

Wow, don't think I heard the comparison Young and Nash before, but that's a great comparison. If you look at the insane numbers Young is already putting up at such a young age you can see a path where he becomes an upgraded Steve Nash.

[gouki88]

So it looks like Lauri Markkanen is unhappy in Chicago. 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/lauri-markkanen-wants-off-bulls-if-they-dont-make-big-changes/

Any chance we could swing a deal for him?  I wouldn't give the Memphis pick because I want a shot at Vernon Carey and if we cant get him I want Isaiah Stewart.  So keeping the 17th pick we still have picks 26 and 30, plus players.

Seems like noise to fill a sports column. The Bulls have a new GM and we should expect a roster shake up. This may or may not involve Markkanen getting traded but I do not suspect the Bulls just move him because he isn't happy.

Its hard to figure a package the Cs could put together that would incite the Bulls. One team that might make sense would be the Hawks. If they do not want to pay Collins maybe they flip him for Markkanen and additional assets.

I kind of agree. Collins is a very close match to a young Karl Malone while Mark is a young Dirk. Depending on the offense you could go either way.

Holy ridiculously over rated player comparisons Batman!

I'm not even sure John Collins is a starter in the NBA. He's great at putting up numbers on bad teams, but so were Tony Wroten Jr. and Jahlil Okafor.

Neither Wroten nor Okafor ever put up anything near 20/10/2 on an EFG% of 61% and a TS% of 64%. Collins is one of the best offensive young big men in the entire NBA. He nearly had shooting splits of 60/40/80 this year, and he’s only 22.

Hardly the same as Okafor’s one year of mediocre production and Wroten, who started less than 25% of his 124 games

^this. His defence is craptastic, but a modern Amare Stoudemire definitely has a place in the NBA. And the Hawks have a player who might become the modern iteration of Steve Nash

Wow, don't think I heard the comparison Young and Nash before, but that's a great comparison. If you look at the insane numbers Young is already putting up at such a young age you can see a path where he becomes an upgraded Steve Nash.

I don’t think an upgraded Steve Nash is what we’re looking at - just quite a similar player in the 2020’s game where point guards are encouraged to shoot. Young will, I can near guarantee, never reach the efficiency peaks that Nash did. That includes the high turnover rate Young has.

I also think Young is a worse defender than Nash. Nash was not good, but Young is arguably the worst guard defender in the whole league. Big difference.

However, Nash never had the license to bomb away that Young does, so his stats will probably be dwarfed

[DefenseWinsChamps]

So it looks like Lauri Markkanen is unhappy in Chicago. 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/lauri-markkanen-wants-off-bulls-if-they-dont-make-big-changes/

Any chance we could swing a deal for him?  I wouldn't give the Memphis pick because I want a shot at Vernon Carey and if we cant get him I want Isaiah Stewart.  So keeping the 17th pick we still have picks 26 and 30, plus players.

Seems like noise to fill a sports column. The Bulls have a new GM and we should expect a roster shake up. This may or may not involve Markkanen getting traded but I do not suspect the Bulls just move him because he isn't happy.

Its hard to figure a package the Cs could put together that would incite the Bulls. One team that might make sense would be the Hawks. If they do not want to pay Collins maybe they flip him for Markkanen and additional assets.

I kind of agree. Collins is a very close match to a young Karl Malone while Mark is a young Dirk. Depending on the offense you could go either way.

Holy ridiculously over rated player comparisons Batman!

I'm not even sure John Collins is a starter in the NBA. He's great at putting up numbers on bad teams, but so were Tony Wroten Jr. and Jahlil Okafor.

Neither Wroten nor Okafor ever put up anything near 20/10/2 on an EFG% of 61% and a TS% of 64%. Collins is one of the best offensive young big men in the entire NBA. He nearly had shooting splits of 60/40/80 this year, and he’s only 22.

Hardly the same as Okafor’s one year of mediocre production and Wroten, who started less than 25% of his 124 games

^this. His defence is craptastic, but a modern Amare Stoudemire definitely has a place in the NBA. And the Hawks have a player who might become the modern iteration of Steve Nash

I agree he has a place in the NBA, but you have to ask questions about their game if their team is bad when they score a lot of points, or if the team is better when they are off the court. What if he is more like David Lee or Antwan Jamison? Those guys scored a lot too, but their teams almost never won.

The rim runner position on offense is the easiest position on the court today to replace. Shooters are harder to come by. Shot creators are more rare. Athletic rim runners who can attack closeout and play in an open system are all over. When a player can do those things and also distribute and play defense, then they can be an important cog on the team.
'
Otherwise, you may as well grab a Brandon Wright or Enes Kanter. It's the reason why Christian Wood is probably a better long-term player than Collins (without some serious growth by Collins).

[Monkhouse]

So it looks like Lauri Markkanen is unhappy in Chicago. 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/lauri-markkanen-wants-off-bulls-if-they-dont-make-big-changes/

Any chance we could swing a deal for him?  I wouldn't give the Memphis pick because I want a shot at Vernon Carey and if we cant get him I want Isaiah Stewart.  So keeping the 17th pick we still have picks 26 and 30, plus players.

Seems like noise to fill a sports column. The Bulls have a new GM and we should expect a roster shake up. This may or may not involve Markkanen getting traded but I do not suspect the Bulls just move him because he isn't happy.

Its hard to figure a package the Cs could put together that would incite the Bulls. One team that might make sense would be the Hawks. If they do not want to pay Collins maybe they flip him for Markkanen and additional assets.

I kind of agree. Collins is a very close match to a young Karl Malone while Mark is a young Dirk. Depending on the offense you could go either way.

Holy ridiculously over rated player comparisons Batman!

I'm not even sure John Collins is a starter in the NBA. He's great at putting up numbers on bad teams, but so were Tony Wroten Jr. and Jahlil Okafor.

Neither Wroten nor Okafor ever put up anything near 20/10/2 on an EFG% of 61% and a TS% of 64%. Collins is one of the best offensive young big men in the entire NBA. He nearly had shooting splits of 60/40/80 this year, and he’s only 22.

Hardly the same as Okafor’s one year of mediocre production and Wroten, who started less than 25% of his 124 games

^this. His defence is craptastic, but a modern Amare Stoudemire definitely has a place in the NBA. And the Hawks have a player who might become the modern iteration of Steve Nash

I agree he has a place in the NBA, but you have to ask questions about their game if their team is bad when they score a lot of points, or if the team is better when they are off the court. What if he is more like David Lee or Antwan Jamison? Those guys scored a lot too, but their teams almost never won.

The rim runner position on offense is the easiest position on the court today to replace. Shooters are harder to come by. Shot creators are more rare. Athletic rim runners who can attack closeout and play in an open system are all over. When a player can do those things and also distribute and play defense, then they can be an important cog on the team.
'
Otherwise, you may as well grab a Brandon Wright or Enes Kanter. It's the reason why Christian Wood is probably a better long-term player than Collins (without some serious growth by Collins).

You're sort of discrediting John Collins. Also, both players Lee & Jamison were both really great at what they did. Sure, Lee probably phased out due to his lack of athleticism, lateral quickness, and inability to space the floor. But Lee's ability to play and mature, (he was sort of a hot head,) paved the way for Green to emerge, and garner playoff contention/Finals aspirations. But Jamison can certainly get starting minutes in today's NBA, no doubt about it.

But I get your points, and they are all valid, but Collins missed a lot of games in the beginning. It's hard to build a winning culture, and develop a team mindset when a key piece of your team is MIA.

That being said, I think the Hawks have a great core in Capela, Young, Jamison, Reddish & Huerter.

But my mind is still boggled by the fact there is barely any rumors regarding Wood. I love him, and wished we took a flier on him. I think he's going to really blow up once he gets solid starting minutes, the Pistons should be wise in trying to retain him, but I think he's going to get $$$.