The J.B. Problem Bill Simmons

[scaryjerry]

Even if you're a #2 on the team, you typically have to take over and carry the team when the alpha guy is out or having a bad game. If we're being honest, Brown hasn't done that much since the playoffs last year. For a guy who got 300M, it's disappointing. And a lot of the mistakes are the same (decisions, turnovers, dribbling, etc.)

That said, I don't think there's too many other solutions. Just need to hope Jaylen figures it out.

The Jaylen-KP connection though is real. I wonder if there are ways to enhance Jaylen's game using that. It's certainly helped Porzingis.

Jaylen has been the #2 for years with the same result.  He just isn't good enough. That is the problem.

You see, I’d argue Tatum hasn’t been good enough to get us over the hump. He takes a lot of credit but none of the blame.

Frankly, both players need to keep growing if we want to win this year.

Agreed. Jaylen played well enough for us to win the title 2 seasons ago in the finals as a #2. Tatum did not.
Expectations should be higher on Tatum as a first team all nba “MVP candidate”

Did he? I mean no question he was great in game 6, but for as good as he was in game 6, he was equally as bad in game 5 and wasn't good in game 4 either.  And his worst game in the series was game 2 (the other loss).  He was excellent in games 1 and 3, the two wins.  So maybe if Brown was better overall, Boston wins the series.

And don't get me wrong, Tatum overall did not play well in the series, though his worst game was game 1 which Boston won.

Yes, for a number 2 option Jaylen played good enough to win that series, averaging more points and rebounds than Tatum on a better shooting percentage. Tatum completely gagged and the moment was noticeably to big for him. Wasn’t good enough for a number 1 option, not even close. Dude shot like 36% from the field and looked scared.

[green_bballers13]

It's hard to come up with a long list of #2's in the game that are better than Jaylen Brown. This Celtics roster is really good with depth and front line talent.

Honestly, I don't really care that he makes too much money. Go for a championship this year and worry about the salary cap next year.

The Celtics need JB to win a championship this year. I think he's good enough to do so.

[Neurotic Guy]

Went back and listened to the podcast from the OP.  I’d love for them to revisit that podcast and address what JB has done since.  Their analysis is yesterday’s news.  Based on what it seems like their expectations were for Jaylen I think they’d be pretty surprised at how he’s adjusted over the course of the season.  Of course JB has to prove himself  in the playoffs, but he’s had a great year doing more than just scoring.

[Moranis]

Even if you're a #2 on the team, you typically have to take over and carry the team when the alpha guy is out or having a bad game. If we're being honest, Brown hasn't done that much since the playoffs last year. For a guy who got 300M, it's disappointing. And a lot of the mistakes are the same (decisions, turnovers, dribbling, etc.)

That said, I don't think there's too many other solutions. Just need to hope Jaylen figures it out.

The Jaylen-KP connection though is real. I wonder if there are ways to enhance Jaylen's game using that. It's certainly helped Porzingis.

Jaylen has been the #2 for years with the same result.  He just isn't good enough. That is the problem.

You see, I’d argue Tatum hasn’t been good enough to get us over the hump. He takes a lot of credit but none of the blame.

Frankly, both players need to keep growing if we want to win this year.

Agreed. Jaylen played well enough for us to win the title 2 seasons ago in the finals as a #2. Tatum did not.
Expectations should be higher on Tatum as a first team all nba “MVP candidate”

Did he? I mean no question he was great in game 6, but for as good as he was in game 6, he was equally as bad in game 5 and wasn't good in game 4 either.  And his worst game in the series was game 2 (the other loss).  He was excellent in games 1 and 3, the two wins.  So maybe if Brown was better overall, Boston wins the series.

And don't get me wrong, Tatum overall did not play well in the series, though his worst game was game 1 which Boston won.

Yes, for a number 2 option Jaylen played good enough to win that series, averaging more points and rebounds than Tatum on a better shooting percentage. Tatum completely gagged and the moment was noticeably to big for him. Wasn’t good enough for a number 1 option, not even close. Dude shot like 36% from the field and looked scared.

Tatum was also 45.5% from 3 in the series.  He actually made 4 more 3's on 3 less shots than Brown did.  Tatum had essentially a 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio, while Brown was 1 to 1.  Brown had the slightly higher USG% as well.  Tatum did not play well, but I just disagree that Brown was good enough.  He wasn't.  Neither played anywhere close to the ceilings, when all it might have taken would have been 1 of them, especially in that critical game 4.  In the 2nd half of that game they were a combined 1 of 8 from 3 with just 16 points as they blew a 5 point halftime lead at home (that was still a 5 point with just under 7 minutes left in the game and was 4 with just under 5 minutes left after a Tatum offensive rebound and then assist to Smart for a 3).  It was 94-90 Boston.  Boston's next possessions in order were Brown miss 2 point, Brown miss 3 point, Tatum miss 3 point, Smart miss 3 point (Brown offensive rebound), Smart miss 3 point, Horford miss 3 point, Horford make 3 point, Brown turnover, White miss 3 point.  They barely got any stops and lost 107-97, so a 17-3 run by GS to end the game.  Embarrassing display from both Tatum and Brown during that stretch on both ends of the floor.

[scaryjerry]

Even if you're a #2 on the team, you typically have to take over and carry the team when the alpha guy is out or having a bad game. If we're being honest, Brown hasn't done that much since the playoffs last year. For a guy who got 300M, it's disappointing. And a lot of the mistakes are the same (decisions, turnovers, dribbling, etc.)

That said, I don't think there's too many other solutions. Just need to hope Jaylen figures it out.

The Jaylen-KP connection though is real. I wonder if there are ways to enhance Jaylen's game using that. It's certainly helped Porzingis.

Jaylen has been the #2 for years with the same result.  He just isn't good enough. That is the problem.

You see, I’d argue Tatum hasn’t been good enough to get us over the hump. He takes a lot of credit but none of the blame.

Frankly, both players need to keep growing if we want to win this year.

Agreed. Jaylen played well enough for us to win the title 2 seasons ago in the finals as a #2. Tatum did not.
Expectations should be higher on Tatum as a first team all nba “MVP candidate”

Did he? I mean no question he was great in game 6, but for as good as he was in game 6, he was equally as bad in game 5 and wasn't good in game 4 either.  And his worst game in the series was game 2 (the other loss).  He was excellent in games 1 and 3, the two wins.  So maybe if Brown was better overall, Boston wins the series.

And don't get me wrong, Tatum overall did not play well in the series, though his worst game was game 1 which Boston won.

Yes, for a number 2 option Jaylen played good enough to win that series, averaging more points and rebounds than Tatum on a better shooting percentage. Tatum completely gagged and the moment was noticeably to big for him. Wasn’t good enough for a number 1 option, not even close. Dude shot like 36% from the field and looked scared.

Tatum was also 45.5% from 3 in the series.  He actually made 4 more 3's on 3 less shots than Brown did.  Tatum had essentially a 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio, while Brown was 1 to 1.  Brown had the slightly higher USG% as well.  Tatum did not play well, but I just disagree that Brown was good enough.  He wasn't.  Neither played anywhere close to the ceilings, when all it might have taken would have been 1 of them, especially in that critical game 4.  In the 2nd half of that game they were a combined 1 of 8 from 3 with just 16 points as they blew a 5 point halftime lead at home (that was still a 5 point with just under 7 minutes left in the game and was 4 with just under 5 minutes left after a Tatum offensive rebound and then assist to Smart for a 3).  It was 94-90 Boston.  Boston's next possessions in order were Brown miss 2 point, Brown miss 3 point, Tatum miss 3 point, Smart miss 3 point (Brown offensive rebound), Smart miss 3 point, Horford miss 3 point, Horford make 3 point, Brown turnover, White miss 3 point.  They barely got any stops and lost 107-97, so a 17-3 run by GS to end the game.  Embarrassing display from both Tatum and Brown during that stretch on both ends of the floor.

You are correct sir, my only argument is Jaylen was closer to being good enough as a #2 than Tatum was as a #1 in that series. Maybe those roles being clear cut at the time was part of the problem.

[Kernewek]

Can you please explain a little bit about the 'performance floor' you expect from a #2 and #1 player? I think that might go a long way toward helping people understand what you mean.

[keevsnick]

Even if you're a #2 on the team, you typically have to take over and carry the team when the alpha guy is out or having a bad game. If we're being honest, Brown hasn't done that much since the playoffs last year. For a guy who got 300M, it's disappointing. And a lot of the mistakes are the same (decisions, turnovers, dribbling, etc.)

That said, I don't think there's too many other solutions. Just need to hope Jaylen figures it out.

The Jaylen-KP connection though is real. I wonder if there are ways to enhance Jaylen's game using that. It's certainly helped Porzingis.

Jaylen has been the #2 for years with the same result.  He just isn't good enough. That is the problem.

You see, I’d argue Tatum hasn’t been good enough to get us over the hump. He takes a lot of credit but none of the blame.

Frankly, both players need to keep growing if we want to win this year.

Agreed. Jaylen played well enough for us to win the title 2 seasons ago in the finals as a #2. Tatum did not.
Expectations should be higher on Tatum as a first team all nba “MVP candidate”

Did he? I mean no question he was great in game 6, but for as good as he was in game 6, he was equally as bad in game 5 and wasn't good in game 4 either.  And his worst game in the series was game 2 (the other loss).  He was excellent in games 1 and 3, the two wins.  So maybe if Brown was better overall, Boston wins the series.

And don't get me wrong, Tatum overall did not play well in the series, though his worst game was game 1 which Boston won.

Yes, for a number 2 option Jaylen played good enough to win that series, averaging more points and rebounds than Tatum on a better shooting percentage. Tatum completely gagged and the moment was noticeably to big for him. Wasn’t good enough for a number 1 option, not even close. Dude shot like 36% from the field and looked scared.

Tatum was also 45.5% from 3 in the series.  He actually made 4 more 3's on 3 less shots than Brown did.  Tatum had essentially a 2 to 1 assist to turnover ratio, while Brown was 1 to 1.  Brown had the slightly higher USG% as well.  Tatum did not play well, but I just disagree that Brown was good enough.  He wasn't.  Neither played anywhere close to the ceilings, when all it might have taken would have been 1 of them, especially in that critical game 4.  In the 2nd half of that game they were a combined 1 of 8 from 3 with just 16 points as they blew a 5 point halftime lead at home (that was still a 5 point with just under 7 minutes left in the game and was 4 with just under 5 minutes left after a Tatum offensive rebound and then assist to Smart for a 3).  It was 94-90 Boston.  Boston's next possessions in order were Brown miss 2 point, Brown miss 3 point, Tatum miss 3 point, Smart miss 3 point (Brown offensive rebound), Smart miss 3 point, Horford miss 3 point, Horford make 3 point, Brown turnover, White miss 3 point.  They barely got any stops and lost 107-97, so a 17-3 run by GS to end the game.  Embarrassing display from both Tatum and Brown during that stretch on both ends of the floor.

Look, I watched that series. Brown was better than Tatum. Doesn't mean Brown is better than Tatum, or that next time they are in the finals Tatum won't average 30/9/5. But in that series Brown was better. Its fine to say it.

BOTH guys will need to, and i expect will be, better next time.

[tenn_smoothie]

I think the Celts are a bigger threat when they move the ball and go with the hot hand and most important, don't force bad shots to prove you are the #1 guy. Tatum is not Larry Bird or Kevin Garnett or John Havlicek. Super talented but that competitive clutch gene just ain't in him when the pressure ratchets way up. Brown is much better as the swiss-army-knife glue guy, but is simply not smart enough of a player to play that way consistently. His usual response in the high-pressure games is to try to do too much. This team would be better off with the '04 Pistons approach.

[ozgod]

I think the Celts are a bigger threat when they move the ball and go with the hot hand and most important, don't force bad shots to prove you are the #1 guy. Tatum is not Larry Bird or Kevin Garnett or John Havlicek. Super talented but that competitive clutch gene just ain't in him when the pressure ratchets way up. Brown is much better as the swiss-army-knife glue guy, but is simply not smart enough of a player to play that way consistently. His usual response in the high-pressure games is to try to do too much. This team would be better off with the '04 Pistons approach.

It was good to see that after scoring 23 points in the first half vs Milwaukee, Tatum didn't attempt another shot in the 2nd half, just passed the ball around, until the last 2 minutes when he drove to the rim twice with Beasley guarding him, drew a foul the first time making both shots and then made a layup the second, instead of attempting a stepback three with a clear mismatch. I liked how he didn't hesitate because clearly Beasley couldn't guard him, but he didn't force it otherwise. Then after KP made a huge offensive board and dunk, Jaylen also drove to the rim, got fouled, and made both shots. Prior to that neither Jay was looking to make shots they were facilitating for other players (unfortunately they missed but the intent was right). I think they realize they don't have to be the men to hog the ball in crunch time. Would be nice if the other guys made the shots but they were the right plays at least and so we escaped with a win 

With White, Jrue and KP (or even Horford) all those guys can make a big play if needed. KP in particular can get a lot of mismatches down low if they need a bucket.