Author Topic: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?  (Read 7854 times)

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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2012, 03:02:27 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

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I would have preferred OKC to have paid up.  When you have those talented players, buck up and spend.  Ownership like this bothers me.  Glad Bostons is not.

That said, I wonder if OKC having to trade someone, if they would have been better off trading Westbrook?
You do realize that Oklahoma City's total payroll is as much as Boston's is this year and pretty much every year going forward.  Thus, I'm confused by your statements.

Exactly, thats why i said before, if anything he should be mad at management for cap issues, not at ownership for not paying.

I don't think it's the cap issues at all this is all about money.

OKC is still a small market team. Their revenue is not as much as what Boston makes, and that's why they could not pay (or chose not) the luxury tax.

Which makes sense until you realize 1) they posted higher operating income than the Celtics each of the last two years and similar three years ago (according to Forbes), 2) the small market Spurs have paid the tax before to build a contender, and 3) the team was hijacked from a market roughly the same size as Boston.

It is just a case of the ownership valuing profits over winning.  They'll still sell out the building and get the same sponsorships etc... without paying Harden big money.

I thought of this , and from a distance as a casual watcher , I would have kept Hardin and dumped westbrook 

Best I remember  Westbrook was horrible against the HEAT I think? OKC needed a real point guard in that series, westbrook is too run and gun for me.

just not a westbrook fan at all. 

Couldn't be more wrong.  Westbrook played great against the HEAT last year, Harden stunk.  I wouldn't base the future of my franchise on decisions based off of one series, but it is worth pointing it that this couldn't be more wrong.

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2012, 03:07:03 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I would have preferred OKC to have paid up.  When you have those talented players, buck up and spend.  Ownership like this bothers me.  Glad Bostons is not.

That said, I wonder if OKC having to trade someone, if they would have been better off trading Westbrook?
You do realize that Oklahoma City's total payroll is as much as Boston's is this year and pretty much every year going forward.  Thus, I'm confused by your statements.

Exactly, thats why i said before, if anything he should be mad at management for cap issues, not at ownership for not paying.

I don't think it's the cap issues at all this is all about money.

OKC is still a small market team. Their revenue is not as much as what Boston makes, and that's why they could not pay (or chose not) the luxury tax.

Which makes sense until you realize 1) they posted higher operating income than the Celtics each of the last two years and similar three years ago (according to Forbes), 2) the small market Spurs have paid the tax before to build a contender, and 3) the team was hijacked from a market roughly the same size as Boston.

It is just a case of the ownership valuing profits over winning.  They'll still sell out the building and get the same sponsorships etc... without paying Harden big money.

I thought of this , and from a distance as a casual watcher , I would have kept Hardin and dumped westbrook 

Best I remember  Westbrook was horrible against the HEAT I think? OKC needed a real point guard in that series, westbrook is too run and gun for me.

just not a westbrook fan at all. 

Couldn't be more wrong.  Westbrook played great against the HEAT last year, Harden stunk.  I wouldn't base the future of my franchise on decisions based off of one series, but it is worth pointing it that this couldn't be more wrong.
But your premise is wrong.  Oklahoma City has a higher payroll than Boston.  This isn't a case about OKC not spending money or refusing to spend money, this is a case of OKC not spending money like the Lakers or Knicks, the only two teams in the league that can actually spend money like they do. 
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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2012, 03:10:01 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Who could they have gotten for Westbrook in a trade?

Dwight Howard seems the obvious choice. Same problem, even more so since Dwight earns more than Westbrook, in keeping Ibaka + Harden though.
Howards' the only guy who'd get OKC to pull the trigger to move Westbrook.

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2012, 03:10:39 PM »

Offline celtsfan84

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I would have preferred OKC to have paid up.  When you have those talented players, buck up and spend.  Ownership like this bothers me.  Glad Bostons is not.

That said, I wonder if OKC having to trade someone, if they would have been better off trading Westbrook?
You do realize that Oklahoma City's total payroll is as much as Boston's is this year and pretty much every year going forward.  Thus, I'm confused by your statements.

Exactly, thats why i said before, if anything he should be mad at management for cap issues, not at ownership for not paying.

I don't think it's the cap issues at all this is all about money.

OKC is still a small market team. Their revenue is not as much as what Boston makes, and that's why they could not pay (or chose not) the luxury tax.

Which makes sense until you realize 1) they posted higher operating income than the Celtics each of the last two years and similar three years ago (according to Forbes), 2) the small market Spurs have paid the tax before to build a contender, and 3) the team was hijacked from a market roughly the same size as Boston.

It is just a case of the ownership valuing profits over winning.  They'll still sell out the building and get the same sponsorships etc... without paying Harden big money.

I thought of this , and from a distance as a casual watcher , I would have kept Hardin and dumped westbrook 

Best I remember  Westbrook was horrible against the HEAT I think? OKC needed a real point guard in that series, westbrook is too run and gun for me.

just not a westbrook fan at all. 

Couldn't be more wrong.  Westbrook played great against the HEAT last year, Harden stunk.  I wouldn't base the future of my franchise on decisions based off of one series, but it is worth pointing it that this couldn't be more wrong.
But your premise is wrong.  Oklahoma City has a higher payroll than Boston.  This isn't a case about OKC not spending money or refusing to spend money, this is a case of OKC not spending money like the Lakers or Knicks, the only two teams in the league that can actually spend money like they do.

Your conclusion from my premise is wrong.  There were multiple remedies to avoid having a payroll like the Lakers.  Saying the Lakers and Knicks are the only two teams that can heavily spend is factually inaccurate, and that wasn't my conclusion anyway.  Look at the payroll commitments of the Nets and HEAT.

Regardless, they've saved boatloads of cash on salaries pretty much since Durant was drafted.  Paying the piper for a couple of years to keep together a contender would've impoverished nobody.  What were their salary commitments in 2008? 2009? 2010? I'm not crying a river for OKC's finances.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 03:17:42 PM by celtsfan84 »

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2012, 03:18:33 PM »

Offline snively

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Who could they have gotten for Westbrook in a trade?

Dwight Howard seems the obvious choice. Same problem, even more so since Dwight earns more than Westbrook, in keeping Ibaka + Harden though.

How about something like Westbrook for Mo Williams, Alec Burks, Enes Kanter and the picks Utah owns (their own and Golden State's)? Or maybe Minnesota for Rubio, Ridnour, Derrick Williams and future picks?  Or Charlotte with Ben Gordon, MKG?  Or Toronto, pre-Lowry, for Calderon, Jonas V and their lotto pick?

If I were in their shoes, I would have preferred to move Westbrook than Harden.
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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2012, 03:29:43 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I think they would have been better off amnestying Perk and/or re-signing Harden over Ibaka.


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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2012, 03:31:56 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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Why? He played a significant part during their run to the finals. Trading him wouldn't make sense unless they were to get a top tier pg.
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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2012, 04:16:44 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Yes. Durant would be better off alongside Harden AND a pass first PG with a consistent outside shot.

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2012, 04:34:51 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I thought of this , and from a distance as a casual watcher , I would have kept Hardin and dumped westbrook 

Best I remember  Westbrook was horrible against the HEAT I think? OKC needed a real point guard in that series, westbrook is too run and gun for me.

just not a westbrook fan at all.

I thought it was Harden who struggled mightily and couldn't stay out of foul trouble?

Yup ...could have been, I thought Westbrook was in the first game at Miami ??? , I don't remeber OKC looking like OKC at all in that series. Now I'm confused . ;D

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2012, 04:50:58 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I thought of this , and from a distance as a casual watcher , I would have kept Hardin and dumped westbrook 

Best I remember  Westbrook was horrible against the HEAT I think? OKC needed a real point guard in that series, westbrook is too run and gun for me.

just not a westbrook fan at all.

I thought it was Harden who struggled mightily and couldn't stay out of foul trouble?

Yup ...could have been, I thought Westbrook was in the first game at Miami ??? , I don't remeber OKC looking like OKC at all in that series. Now I'm confused . ;D
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game 2 - 27, 7, 8 (bad shooting night)
game 3 - 19, 4, 5
game 4 - 43, 5, 7
game 5 - 19, 6, 4 (terrible shooting night)

Pretty solid series overall for Westbrook.
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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2012, 05:17:27 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

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No.

They need Westbrook but they also need Harden. Should have bitten the bullet for a few years while the iron is hot. Harden's value would have only gotten higher. Never a fan of owners going cheap.

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2012, 05:48:46 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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I guess it depends on what could have been given in return. However, Westbrook is much more important to the team than Harden. Im not saying Harden is replaceable but couldn't Kevin Martin fill the void that Harden leaves behind easier than someone could fill in for Westbrook at point guard? I think so.

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2012, 07:03:13 PM »

Offline action781

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Who could they have gotten for Westbrook in a trade?

Dwight Howard seems the obvious choice. Same problem, even more so since Dwight earns more than Westbrook, in keeping Ibaka + Harden though.
Howards' the only guy who'd get OKC to pull the trigger to move Westbrook.

Nelson + Howard for Westbrook + Perkins?

Orlando would take it.  OKC would need an extension from Dwight.  Nelson, Thabo, Durant, Ibaka, and Howard with Harden off the bench would make a nasty team.

OKC is paying tax, but they are winning titles.
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Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2012, 07:11:17 PM »

Offline nostar

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No.

They need Westbrook but they also need Harden. Should have bitten the bullet for a few years while the iron is hot. Harden's value would have only gotten higher. Never a fan of owners going cheap.

I'm honestly not sure they would have traded Harden except they got exceptional value from him.

  • Martin: competent scoring threat on an expiring contract
  • Lamb: young talent with tons of potential
  • 2 first round picks and a 2nd from a rebuilding team

Pick-wise that is almost exactly what the Rams got from the Redskins for RG3. I think these scenarios are pretty similar. Both teams got really good deals. Obviously Harden is a better player but (including Lamb) 3 first rounders, a 2nd rounder and Kevin Martin is awfully good value for a guy who wants 16M at the conclusion of the season.

I personally think Houston overpaid for Harden despite his monster performance against the Pistons the other night. Houston has been overpaying guys so their fan base doesn't leave; see Lin and Asik. People forget Houston is the 4th largest city in America and they have a really great market for endorsement deals. I'm kind of surprised Dwight didn't push to go there as much as they wanted him.

How about something like Westbrook for Mo Williams, Alec Burks, Enes Kanter and the picks Utah owns (their own and Golden State's)?

Mo is on his way down and the other guys are unproven. Westbrook is a top 5 player by his stats last season.

Quote
Or maybe Minnesota for Rubio, Ridnour, Derrick Williams and future picks?
That is a really interesting trade for both teams but I doubt Minny lets Rubio go before his rookie deal is over. Maybe if he's an injury mess.

Quote
Or Charlotte with Ben Gordon, MKG?

You would have to pay for a team to take on Ben Gorden, no way he goes in a deal for Westbrook. If MKG starts looking like MJ then maybe...then again you'd think MJ would notice that :)

Quote
Or Toronto, pre-Lowry, for Calderon, Jonas V and their lotto pick?
Still not value for Westbrook. I'm not even sure they would trade Westbrook for Rondo at this point. I know they didn't a year or so ago and since then Rondo has gotten better. I think OKC is so high on Westbrook that it would take a top 20 player on a smaller contract to get them to budge. Think John Wall or Kyrie Irving types.

Re: Would OKC been better off trading Westbrook?
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2012, 07:54:46 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Bottom line for me is I just think Durant/Harden>Durant/Westbrook.  Better fit, and Harden is more efficient and a better defender.

That, and I just think Westbrook is wildly overrated.  Wouldn't want him anywhere near the C's.