Author Topic: The Greatness of a Kawhi Leonard  (Read 3173 times)

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Re: The Greatness of a Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2019, 12:26:13 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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Obviously I love Larry Legend, but you could make a case that all 3 of the top SFs ever (when they hang it up) are either in their prime (Kawhi, Durant) or just exiting it (Lebron, maybe Durant?) right now.  Kawhi might just be my favorite non-Celtic, having passed young gun Devin Booker.
The only one who people can rightfully argue ahead of Bird is LBJ. I'd disagree, but that's the only guy who I'd listen to an argument for.

Durant might have twice as long a 'peak' as Bird when all is said and done, and Kawhi seems more able to take a decent supporting cast to the top than Bird, who never had the chance really, because he always had the luxury of playing with 2 other studs plus a finals MVP and a dead eye shooter.

EDIT - I would still rate Larry as the 2nd best SF ever but if Kawhi keeps this up it's gonna be hard for Larry to hold that spot.  Put Kawhi back in the 80s and say on the Houston Rockets, which would give Kawhi a similar level of supporting talent around him as Bird had, and I think Larry would be in a lot of trouble with Kawhi guarding him and playing a twin tower team.  If Kawhi can make Giannis look this bad I'm not sure Bird could even get a shot off, even with that funky form.  He'd still be effective because he was a great passer and good at everything though.
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Re: The Greatness of a Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2019, 12:49:58 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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A thing to remember when trying to guess the value of what a davis deal will cost.

Demar Derozan
Jakob Poeltl
Raptor 1st rounder


For

Kawhi
Green



Remember that....

Davis is NOT going to cost 4 picks, Smart, Tatum Brown and Williams.

This is interesting... as an aside I wouldn't put Davis in Kawhi's stratosphere.  Kawhi's a first-ballot hall-of-famer, Davis has put up good stats on a bad team.


Re: The Greatness of a Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2019, 01:20:51 PM »

Offline td450

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Obviously I love Larry Legend, but you could make a case that all 3 of the top SFs ever (when they hang it up) are either in their prime (Kawhi, Durant) or just exiting it (Lebron, maybe Durant?) right now.  Kawhi might just be my favorite non-Celtic, having passed young gun Devin Booker.
The only one who people can rightfully argue ahead of Bird is LBJ. I'd disagree, but that's the only guy who I'd listen to an argument for.

Durant might have twice as long a 'peak' as Bird when all is said and done, and Kawhi seems more able to take a decent supporting cast to the top than Bird, who never had the chance really, because he always had the luxury of playing with 2 other studs plus a finals MVP and a dead eye shooter.

EDIT - I would still rate Larry as the 2nd best SF ever but if Kawhi keeps this up it's gonna be hard for Larry to hold that spot.  Put Kawhi back in the 80s and say on the Houston Rockets, which would give Kawhi a similar level of supporting talent around him as Bird had, and I think Larry would be in a lot of trouble with Kawhi guarding him and playing a twin tower team.  If Kawhi can make Giannis look this bad I'm not sure Bird could even get a shot off, even with that funky form.  He'd still be effective because he was a great passer and good at everything though.

I don't know how much of Bird you saw. No one was going to stop him from getting his shot off. I distinctly remember that he had very little trouble with Scottie Pippin, generally considered one of the best small forward defenders ever, to give you a comparison. He would figure anyone out after a game or two.

Re: The Greatness of a Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2019, 01:52:36 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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I used to own some old VHS tapes of Larry Bird. (They unfortunately no longer work anymore.  :'( .)

One of them had Larry Bird against Portland. Right before the game, they were in a huddle, where players were talking with Bird, and a few of them were leaving the huddle shaking their heads.

Bird proclaimed that he was 'bored,' and was going to just play left handed all game.

He scored 47 PPG and 11 RPG, and 11 APG. He had literally all the opponents doubling him, and one point in 3Q, he did one of the craziest running hook shots from 14 feet that I've ever seen.

Bird could get any shot he wanted, his defense man on man was never excellent, but he was awesome at weakside/team defense. If Bird had been in this era, I think he would've been better than LeBron or KD.
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Re: The Greatness of a Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2019, 02:12:02 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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I've always been a fan of Kawhi. Loved his humble attitude but also his "intense" hustle and effort on the court on both ends. You just don't see that often in the NBA these days if we're being honest. And right now, if he takes this Raptors team to the Finals, it'd truly be an effort that I think puts him at or above Lebron's level (similar to how LBJ would drag those Cavs teams to the Finals). I really believe that.

Kawhi also isn't someone who swears (hence, being humble), just like me so I can relate lol.
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Re: The Greatness of a Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2019, 02:56:38 PM »

Offline td450

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I used to own some old VHS tapes of Larry Bird. (They unfortunately no longer work anymore.  :'( .)

One of them had Larry Bird against Portland. Right before the game, they were in a huddle, where players were talking with Bird, and a few of them were leaving the huddle shaking their heads.

Bird proclaimed that he was 'bored,' and was going to just play left handed all game.

He scored 47 PPG and 11 RPG, and 11 APG. He had literally all the opponents doubling him, and one point in 3Q, he did one of the craziest running hook shots from 14 feet that I've ever seen.

Bird could get any shot he wanted, his defense man on man was never excellent, but he was awesome at weakside/team defense. If Bird had been in this era, I think he would've been better than LeBron or KD.

Bird was a good enough defender in his prime to make 3 consecutive 2nd team all-defense teams. People forget that.

Re: The Greatness of a Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2019, 05:47:31 AM »

Offline ozgod

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I said on the playoffs thread that Kyrie, among today's players, reminded me most of Michael Jordan (and Kobe Bryant obviously). Obviously there's similarities in the play style where both can initiate the offense, score all over the court, attack the rim, shoot tough fadeaways, be threats from the 3 point line (Kawhi more so than MJ), draw multiple defenders and find the open man, all the while being an elite defender able to defend multiple positions. But I found the most similarity in their mindset - they both have that killer instinct and that icy composure when the pressure is greatest.

Kawhi has been able to become that player to a large extent because Nick Nurse has largely allowed him to iso and dominate the ball much more so than Pop did. If we had traded for him he would definitely be a huge upgrade over Kyrie, but his usage %, time on the ball, all that stuff wouldn't be that much more different. If the goal is to have a team like last season's share the ball, everyone eats, type of team then Kawhi probably isn't going to be the best player to facilitate that. I'd still take him though  :laugh:
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Re: The Greatness of a Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2019, 08:39:32 AM »

Offline Green-18

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I said on the playoffs thread that Kyrie, among today's players, reminded me most of Michael Jordan (and Kobe Bryant obviously). Obviously there's similarities in the play style where both can initiate the offense, score all over the court, attack the rim, shoot tough fadeaways, be threats from the 3 point line (Kawhi more so than MJ), draw multiple defenders and find the open man, all the while being an elite defender able to defend multiple positions. But I found the most similarity in their mindset - they both have that killer instinct and that icy composure when the pressure is greatest.

Kawhi has been able to become that player to a large extent because Nick Nurse has largely allowed him to iso and dominate the ball much more so than Pop did. If we had traded for him he would definitely be a huge upgrade over Kyrie, but his usage %, time on the ball, all that stuff wouldn't be that much more different. If the goal is to have a team like last season's share the ball, everyone eats, type of team then Kawhi probably isn't going to be the best player to facilitate that. I'd still take him though  :laugh:

Jordan comparisons are completely fair, even to the point where we can skip Kobe in the discussion.  This isn't a knock on Kobe.  I just don't think his mid-range game was nearly as cerebral as either Jordan or Kawhi's.   Watching Kawhi go to work in the post never gets old. 

I was already convinced that Kawhi was the best player in the league during his last injury free campaign in San Antonio.  If only he could have stayed healthy for the entire series against the Warriors in 2017.  I still think the Warriors would have won, but the argument for Kawhi being the best player in the world would have been solidified much earlier.

 

Re: The Greatness of a Kawhi Leonard
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2019, 12:57:21 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

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I said on the playoffs thread that Kyrie, among today's players, reminded me most of Michael Jordan (and Kobe Bryant obviously). Obviously there's similarities in the play style where both can initiate the offense, score all over the court, attack the rim, shoot tough fadeaways, be threats from the 3 point line (Kawhi more so than MJ), draw multiple defenders and find the open man, all the while being an elite defender able to defend multiple positions. But I found the most similarity in their mindset - they both have that killer instinct and that icy composure when the pressure is greatest.

Kawhi has been able to become that player to a large extent because Nick Nurse has largely allowed him to iso and dominate the ball much more so than Pop did. If we had traded for him he would definitely be a huge upgrade over Kyrie, but his usage %, time on the ball, all that stuff wouldn't be that much more different. If the goal is to have a team like last season's share the ball, everyone eats, type of team then Kawhi probably isn't going to be the best player to facilitate that. I'd still take him though  :laugh:

Jordan comparisons are completely fair, even to the point where we can skip Kobe in the discussion.  This isn't a knock on Kobe.  I just don't think his mid-range game was nearly as cerebral as either Jordan or Kawhi's.   Watching Kawhi go to work in the post never gets old. 

I was already convinced that Kawhi was the best player in the league during his last injury free campaign in San Antonio.  If only he could have stayed healthy for the entire series against the Warriors in 2017.  I still think the Warriors would have won, but the argument for Kawhi being the best player in the world would have been solidified much earlier.

 

Perhaps karma is about to do him a solid.  Still can't believe Ainge couldn't produce a trade for this guy when he was available.