Amazed at critcisms of Stevens and Tatum

[MikeB12]

I'm amazed at all the criticism of Stevens and Tatum.

After all the support that Marcus Smart got for years while his offense stunk it up; people just said hang on he will improve.  Guess what - I was a big critic of his lack of offensive skills and what happened - he actually has improved.

So it baffles me that all of a sudden it is mainly Stevens' fault that the Celtics are having trouble this year after I bet those who are criticizing him now were supporting him the last 4 years.

Tatum is very young and in just his second year and now some C's fans think he is terrible - wow.   

The Celtics allowed Smart to improve - I say lets give Stevens and Tatum a similar break.  No doubt the Celtics may not even make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs this year.  Let's give both Stevens and Tatum another chance - that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

MikeB - Celtics fan for over 50 years.

[nickagneta]

I think people are frustrated, especially those that had the team winning 60-65 games this year.

(I thought 57-59 wins. Never thought 60 was in play unless things went perfectly. Things don't usually go perfectly. I am still pretty frustrated with the team, though I think considerably less than most.)

And with frustration comes needing to vent and for most people to blame. The problem is, when placing blame people usually use tunnel vision and look at players/coaches they aren't great fans of and scapegoat that player or coach and subsequently that player or coach gets the blame for making players/coaches the people prefer perform worse.

The fact is, this season has been and could end up a failure, but it would be an organizational failure. There isn't anyone from Ainge all the way down to Wanamaker and Williams that don't hold some responsibility for this season.

[ederson]

I get the frustration. A team that underachieves is probably the most frustrating thing in sports.

But i agree with you.... This has gone out of control. 

[Donoghus]

I don't think anyone on this roster & coaching is beyond reproach these days.    I think you can fairly point blame at everyone to a varying degree.

My biggest issue is the people who think its one or two players' fault and refuse to hold anyone else accountable.  To me, that's baffling if you watch what's going on out there.

[Big333223]

I take issue with the characterization that fans "supported" Marcus Smart all these years. Marcus has been criticized relentlessly for most of his career for not being able to shoot. If you're saying that Tatum and Stevens should be given the Marcus Smart treatment, get ready for some more "trade Tatum" threads.

[SparzWizard]

You should know by now that if you have a talented roster with high expectations and are still losing games this late into the season, there has to be finger-pointing and sheer frustration.

You can't lose those games where you are supposed to win, esp if you have Irving, Hayward, and Horford. And with two young gunners in Tatum and Brown whose demonstrated big leaps the year before. And a defensive monster in Smart.

Tatum's regressed this season. Stevens doesn't seem to know how to manage this team nor change up his schemes. Rozier and Morris I can't wait to see them gone.

[ozgod]

I think people are frustrated, especially those that had the team winning 60-65 games this year.

(I thought 57-59 wins. Never thought 60 was in play unless things went perfectly. Things don't usually go perfectly. I am still pretty frustrated with the team, though I think considerably less than most.)

And with frustration comes needing to vent and for most people to blame. The problem is, when placing blame people usually use tunnel vision and look at players/coaches they aren't great fans of and scapegoat that player or coach and subsequently that player or coach gets the blame for making players/coaches the people prefer perform worse.

The fact is, this season has been and could end up a failure, but it would be an organizational failure. There isn't anyone from Ainge all the way down to Wanamaker and Williams that don't hold some responsibility for this season.

I'm disappointed with the team more so than frustrated. I reset my expectations twice during the season though, the first time after the 10-10 start the 2nd time after the ASB so I wouldn't get frustrated. This season has been a disappointment after all the expectation. But I'm not quite at wrist slitting stage yet. I'm doing my best to take a longer term approach to the team.

If we fail again next season though then I'ma be p---ed   

[Triplenickle]

All i'm gonna say is, I hope yall noticed that Tatum hasn't even went hard yet on anything really. The man hasn't even exerted himself with 80% of effort yet.

I don't know if that's good or bad or if he's still feeling out the league, but he hasn't come close to showing what he really has and the limits of his ability.

Not one time has he pushed himself to his limits since he been here.

Make what you will of that. This game and alot of things comes real easy to him.

[PhoSita]

I think that most people who spend enough time on their Celtics fandom that they would read or post in this forum tend to look toward the Celtics for a regular source of enjoyment, entertainment, and perhaps even emotional uplift during difficult / depressing times and/or just the drag of a long New England winter.

So when people expect the Celtics to be a ton of fun and then, pretty much all season long, they are a complete drag and disappointment, that's gonna tend to result in sad, hurt feelings.

Because we're New Englanders, the way we are most comfortable expressing sadness is via deeply resentful and irrational anger.

 

[Sophomore]

The inconsistency is really trying. When they go up 25-30 points on a mediocre team then give the lead away by playing really bad ball - disinterested and boneheaded, and well below what we’ve seen from them that night and many nights before. It’s hard to take. It’s a lack of focus and consistency, which seems like a much more fixable thing than a broken jump shot.

[Sophomore]

I think that most people who spend enough time on their Celtics fandom that they would read or post in this forum tend to look toward the Celtics for a regular source of enjoyment, entertainment, and perhaps even emotional uplift during difficult / depressing times and/or just the drag of a long New England winter.

So when people expect the Celtics to be a ton of fun and then, pretty much all season long, they are a complete drag and disappointment, that's gonna tend to result in sad, hurt feelings.

Because we're New Englanders, the way we are most comfortable expressing sadness is via deeply resentful and irrational anger.

 

This is good. You think you can rely on them for some of that good feeling and, pow, they let you down in the worst way. It’s like a beautiful piece of chocolate cake that turns out to be made of ex-lax.

[PhoSita]

The inconsistency is really trying. When they go up 25-30 points on a mediocre team then give the lead away by playing really bad ball - disinterested and boneheaded, and well below what we’ve seen from them that night and many nights before. It’s hard to take. It’s a lack of focus and consistency, which seems like a much more fixable thing than a broken jump shot.

I agree.


I feel as though there have been many times this season when I've looked at the score of the game on my ESPN app, seen that it's close or that the Celts are up, and thought "Ooh, I'll watch this game later."

Then I look at the score again after a while and they've blown the lead and gone on to lose the game, meaning that I no longer have any interest in watching the game.

It has been a good long while since I thought "Hrm, maybe I'll watch the Celtics game later," and then ended up have any interest in doing so.


In a way that's been a season-long continuation of the whole "raise expectations and then dash them on the rocks of reality" dynamic with this team.

I think that results in people being more frustrated and upset with the team than if they were consistently trailing by a couple possessions and simply failed to ever quite capture a lead.

[PhoSita]

I think that most people who spend enough time on their Celtics fandom that they would read or post in this forum tend to look toward the Celtics for a regular source of enjoyment, entertainment, and perhaps even emotional uplift during difficult / depressing times and/or just the drag of a long New England winter.

So when people expect the Celtics to be a ton of fun and then, pretty much all season long, they are a complete drag and disappointment, that's gonna tend to result in sad, hurt feelings.

Because we're New Englanders, the way we are most comfortable expressing sadness is via deeply resentful and irrational anger.

 

This is good. You think you can rely on them for some of that good feeling and, pow, they let you down in the worst way. It’s like a beautiful piece of chocolate cake that turns out to be made of ex-lax.

Yeah, it's kind of like realizing that a new episode of a TV show you really enjoy is going to be airing later, and you plan your day around getting to watch that episode, then it turns out to be a re-run of some show you hate.

[GreenFaith1819]

I'll wait until the VERY END of the season before I start hurling criticisms.

I still believe this will not be until middle of June 2019 for this team.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I think people are frustrated, especially those that had the team winning 60-65 games this year.

(I thought 57-59 wins. Never thought 60 was in play unless things went perfectly. Things don't usually go perfectly. I am still pretty frustrated with the team, though I think considerably less than most.)

And with frustration comes needing to vent and for most people to blame. The problem is, when placing blame people usually use tunnel vision and look at players/coaches they aren't great fans of and scapegoat that player or coach and subsequently that player or coach gets the blame for making players/coaches the people prefer perform worse.

The fact is, this season has been and could end up a failure, but it would be an organizational failure. There isn't anyone from Ainge all the way down to Wanamaker and Williams that don't hold some responsibility for this season.

Hey, leave Brad (Wanamaker) out of this!

I think that most people who spend enough time on their Celtics fandom that they would read or post in this forum tend to look toward the Celtics for a regular source of enjoyment, entertainment, and perhaps even emotional uplift during difficult / depressing times and/or just the drag of a long New England winter.

So when people expect the Celtics to be a ton of fun and then, pretty much all season long, they are a complete drag and disappointment, that's gonna tend to result in sad, hurt feelings.

Because we're New Englanders, the way we are most comfortable expressing sadness is via deeply resentful and irrational anger.

 

This is spot-on. If I expect them to be mediocre and they're mediocre, fine; but when I expect them to be pushing 60 wins and they may not even reach 50, that's pretty disappointing.

There's surely a lot of blame to go around, but since Stevens and Tatum are the subject of this thread, I'll say that they certainly share in the blame.

Stevens made a horrible miscalculation in starting Hayward at the beginning of the season. And despite Stevens being one of the best at getting less-talented teams to overachieve, he seems to not know what to do when he actually has a good deal of talent to work with.

As for Tatum, he's been inconsistent (like a lot of this year's Celtics), he's taken WAY too many midrange shots, he's been a bad defender, and (most annoyingly for me) he complains to the refs after just about every one of his shots. Basically, he's become Kobe without the high scoring output.