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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: celtic -_- pride on January 07, 2013, 12:15:40 AM

Title: Tony Allen
Post by: celtic -_- pride on January 07, 2013, 12:15:40 AM
losing tony allen was DA's biggest mistake. even worse than the perk trade  :o !! perk has declined greatly but tony still plays well. his defense and slashing ability fits greatly on this team. celtics focus on D and we dont have any slashers !! miss you tony more than that other forsaken allen.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: KGs Knee on January 07, 2013, 12:21:00 AM
The only way to keep TA would have been to overpay him, or promise him the starting SG spot.  He got neither and left, for what was at the time a bench role.

TA eventually became the starter.  Very ironic Ray left under eerily similar circumstances.

In hindsight, we should have promoted TA back then.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: celtic -_- pride on January 07, 2013, 12:22:59 AM
lets trade jeff green for tony allen. hows that for a trade proposal
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: guava_wrench on January 07, 2013, 12:34:09 AM
The only way to keep TA would have been to overpay him, or promise him the starting SG spot.  He got neither and left, for what was at the time a bench role.

TA eventually became the starter.  Very ironic Ray left under eerily similar circumstances.

In hindsight, we should have promoted TA back then.
Of course, it turns out TA wouldn't have been overpaid based on his performance in Memphis.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: Change on January 07, 2013, 12:46:41 AM
Bipolar C's fans clowned Tony Allen when he was in Green for all his miscues. Now that he is excelling in Memphis, they pretend to have loved TA all along and it was a huge mistake not re-signing Tony. Make up your mind people.

I doubt Danny is losing any sleep Tony Allen situation didn't work out. If anything I think Ainge is quite happy for Tony's recent successes in Memphis. Tony Allen would've never received all accolades sitting on Celtics bench behind two hall of famers. Since moving to Memphis, Tony has become sort of folk hero there. Fans down there adore him, and appreciate him helping to turn around Grizzlies misfortunes. He gets accredited for turning the Grizzlies into a defensive team.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: GreenEnvy on January 07, 2013, 12:58:15 AM
lets trade jeff green for tony allen. hows that for a trade proposal

Could you imagine TA+AB together with KG lurking behind them?

My God, that would be scary.



I don't fault Ainge for TA leaving though. He wanted a bigger role than he ever proved deserved of while here.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 07, 2013, 01:11:52 AM
lets trade jeff green for tony allen. hows that for a trade proposal

Could you imagine TA+AB together with KG lurking behind them?

My God, that would be scary.



I don't fault Ainge for TA leaving though. He wanted a bigger role than he ever proved deserved of while here.

If I recall correctly, TA was fine with his role here and wanted to return... Ainge didn't make an offer.

So I'm not understanding the overpay him argument at the moment. He could've been had for cheap.

It's about the only player we've let go that I didn't like how Ainge handled in recent years.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 07, 2013, 01:13:52 AM
http://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/6196970

Not going to happen, but it would be nice.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: GreenEnvy on January 07, 2013, 01:29:22 AM
lets trade jeff green for tony allen. hows that for a trade proposal

Could you imagine TA+AB together with KG lurking behind them?

My God, that would be scary.



I don't fault Ainge for TA leaving though. He wanted a bigger role than he ever proved deserved of while here.

If I recall correctly, TA was fine with his role here and wanted to return... Ainge didn't make an offer.

So I'm not understanding the overpay him argument at the moment. He could've been had for cheap.

It's about the only player we've let go that I didn't like how Ainge handled in recent years.

I can't confirm right now, but I think you are wrong. I think either the same offer was on the table from Boston or Ainge said he would match, but TA made up his mind to walk for the chance at a bigger role that he couldn't get with Judas here.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: bfrombleacher on January 07, 2013, 01:52:19 AM
lets trade jeff green for tony allen. hows that for a trade proposal

Could you imagine TA+AB together with KG lurking behind them?

My God, that would be scary.



I don't fault Ainge for TA leaving though. He wanted a bigger role than he ever proved deserved of while here.

If I recall correctly, TA was fine with his role here and wanted to return... Ainge didn't make an offer.

So I'm not understanding the overpay him argument at the moment. He could've been had for cheap.

It's about the only player we've let go that I didn't like how Ainge handled in recent years.

I can't confirm right now, but I think you are wrong. I think either the same offer was on the table from Boston or Ainge said he would match, but TA made up his mind to walk for the chance at a bigger role that he couldn't get with Judas here.

That's how I have it too.

One of the many ways he screwed us.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 07, 2013, 01:58:58 AM
lets trade jeff green for tony allen. hows that for a trade proposal

Could you imagine TA+AB together with KG lurking behind them?

My God, that would be scary.



I don't fault Ainge for TA leaving though. He wanted a bigger role than he ever proved deserved of while here.

If I recall correctly, TA was fine with his role here and wanted to return... Ainge didn't make an offer.

So I'm not understanding the overpay him argument at the moment. He could've been had for cheap.

It's about the only player we've let go that I didn't like how Ainge handled in recent years.

I can't confirm right now, but I think you are wrong. I think either the same offer was on the table from Boston or Ainge said he would match, but TA made up his mind to walk for the chance at a bigger role that he couldn't get with Judas here.

That's how I have it too.

One of the many ways he screwed us.

I think you're correct in some regard... thinking more on it, it may have been more of TA wanting more years, and DA was reluctant to give him more than 2 years or something.

One thing is for sure for me, Danny didn't make him the best offer. In fact, the offers and how he went about it seemed like there wasn't that much interest to keep Tony.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: mctyson on January 07, 2013, 06:40:03 AM
Another thing people forget is that Tony was still recovering from reconstructive knee surgery, and much like Perk, Danny was in no way going to throw a lot of years and money on a bad kneed.  Unlike Perk, Tony has completely recovered.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: CelticsFan9 on January 07, 2013, 06:43:29 AM
lets trade jeff green for tony allen. hows that for a trade proposal

Could you imagine TA+AB together with KG lurking behind them?

My God, that would be scary.



I don't fault Ainge for TA leaving though. He wanted a bigger role than he ever proved deserved of while here.

If I recall correctly, TA was fine with his role here and wanted to return... Ainge didn't make an offer.

So I'm not understanding the overpay him argument at the moment. He could've been had for cheap.

It's about the only player we've let go that I didn't like how Ainge handled in recent years.

I can't confirm right now, but I think you are wrong. I think either the same offer was on the table from Boston or Ainge said he would match, but TA made up his mind to walk for the chance at a bigger role that he couldn't get with Judas here.

That's how I have it too.

One of the many ways he screwed us.

I think you're correct in some regard... thinking more on it, it may have been more of TA wanting more years, and DA was reluctant to give him more than 2 years or something.

One thing is for sure for me, Danny didn't make him the best offer. In fact, the offers and how he went about it seemed like there wasn't that much interest to keep Tony.

You're right.  Tony wanted 3 years, Danny wanted 2 to match up with Ray's and KG's contracts so that he could try for a superstar during the 2012 offseason.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: Brendan on January 07, 2013, 08:06:18 AM
Tony and Rondo were an offense nightmare on the floor together. That was the biggest problem IIRC. In BOS he was always going to be on the outside of the rotation because Rondo plays a lot, and Rondo + TA is terrible shooting back court.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: xmuscularghandix on January 07, 2013, 08:17:25 AM
It wasn't Danny's mistake. Ainge offered him a good deal and he chose Memphis for the playing time and the increased role. Ainge didn't let him walk.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: kozlodoev on January 07, 2013, 09:05:48 AM
Bipolar C's fans clowned Tony Allen when he was in Green for all his miscues. Now that he is excelling in Memphis, they pretend to have loved TA all along and it was a huge mistake not re-signing Tony. Make up your mind people.
He's "excelling in Memphis"? He's exactly the same player he has always been - if not worse this season. He had a big night against the Celtics, something he was definitely capable of before (once in 10 games or so). Please.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: ssspence on January 07, 2013, 09:54:53 AM
Bradley is as good of a disruptive defender, but smarter and a better offensive player. Move on.

Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: Change on January 07, 2013, 10:30:52 AM
Bipolar C's fans clowned Tony Allen when he was in Green for all his miscues. Now that he is excelling in Memphis, they pretend to have loved TA all along and it was a huge mistake not re-signing Tony. Make up your mind people.
He's "excelling in Memphis"? He's exactly the same player he has always been - if not worse this season. He had a big night against the Celtics, something he was definitely capable of before (once in 10 games or so). Please.

2 years in Memphis

NBA All-Defensive First Team (2012)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2011)
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: Fafnir on January 07, 2013, 11:29:03 AM
Bipolar C's fans clowned Tony Allen when he was in Green for all his miscues. Now that he is excelling in Memphis, they pretend to have loved TA all along and it was a huge mistake not re-signing Tony. Make up your mind people.
He's "excelling in Memphis"? He's exactly the same player he has always been - if not worse this season. He had a big night against the Celtics, something he was definitely capable of before (once in 10 games or so). Please.

2 years in Memphis

NBA All-Defensive First Team (2012)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2011)
He was all defense worthy with the Celtics too, just didn't get the publicity or the minutes for people to vote for him.

Same player expanded role in that he gets 10 minutes more per game. 26 instead of 16.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: kozlodoev on January 07, 2013, 12:08:17 PM
Bipolar C's fans clowned Tony Allen when he was in Green for all his miscues. Now that he is excelling in Memphis, they pretend to have loved TA all along and it was a huge mistake not re-signing Tony. Make up your mind people.
He's "excelling in Memphis"? He's exactly the same player he has always been - if not worse this season. He had a big night against the Celtics, something he was definitely capable of before (once in 10 games or so). Please.

2 years in Memphis

NBA All-Defensive First Team (2012)
NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2011)
Yep, that's what moving to the starting lineup and not being in the shadow of four allstars will do to you.

Welcome to the NBA, the league of perceptions.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: mgent on January 07, 2013, 12:36:31 PM
Bipolar C's fans clowned Tony Allen when he was in Green for all his miscues. Now that he is excelling in Memphis, they pretend to have loved TA all along and it was a huge mistake not re-signing Tony. Make up your mind people.
Right on.  I've never seen fans act so bipolar about a player in my life.  Good Tony and bad Tony hahaha?  What in the world is that?  A player is the sum of his parts.  He was always the same.  Sometimes he found no rhythm/confidence in those 10-15 minutes, but when he did he locked players down and then dunked on them in transition.  That's not good Tony, that's people failing to understand who he was.  As if players don't have ups and downs.... And as if always recovering from injury doesn't add to that.


I mean the amount of times I saw "I hate Tony Allen" on this site is absurd.  Hate.  You'd think he turned the ball over more than anyone in the league.  He wasn't even the most turnover prone guy on our team.  Perk was.  You didn't see anyone scapegoating "bad Perk" when he didn't bring anything to a game other than defense.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: tonyto3690 on January 07, 2013, 12:54:25 PM
I was a HUGE tony allen supporter back then, but he wanted to get out of Rays shadow and have a chance to start.  At that time there was absolutely no way he was going to start over Ray, and he wanted to be paid like a starter so there is no way we could have afforded to keep him.

Is he a talented player?  Yes
Should we want as much talent on this team? Yes
Would he have fit our roster then and/or now?  No

Bradley is our starter, Jet is our bench scorer and Lee fills in the gaps.  That's as good as a 2 position depth you can hope for. 

Tony is a good player and at the time I wanted him on the team but he was adamant he wanted to play somewhere else.  It is what it is.  I still think he has the potential to be a 15 point scorer with lock down defense.  He was on a monster stretch before his injury which set him back quite a bit.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: Fafnir on January 07, 2013, 01:17:27 PM
Bipolar C's fans clowned Tony Allen when he was in Green for all his miscues. Now that he is excelling in Memphis, they pretend to have loved TA all along and it was a huge mistake not re-signing Tony. Make up your mind people.
Right on.  I've never seen fans act so bipolar about a player in my life.  Good Tony and bad Tony hahaha?  What in the world is that?  A player is the sum of his parts.  He was always the same.  Sometimes he found no rhythm/confidence in those 10-15 minutes, but when he did he locked players down and then dunked on them in transition.  That's not good Tony, that's people failing to understand who he was.  As if players don't have ups and downs.... And as if always recovering from injury doesn't add to that.


I mean the amount of times I saw "I hate Tony Allen" on this site is absurd.  Hate.  You'd think he turned the ball over more than anyone in the league.  He wasn't even the most turnover prone guy on our team.  Perk was.  You didn't see anyone scapegoating "bad Perk" when he didn't bring anything to a game other than defense.
Perkins is more turnover prone by advanced stats  (TOV%) because he'd get called for moving screens a lot and didn't shoot much.

Tony Allen turned the ball over more per minute several years in Boston and his turnovers were usually dribbling the ball off his foot as he drove.

I'd cringe whenever Perkins posted up, as he was awful at turning it over in the post, but I'd cringe just as much whenever Tony "touched" the ball and looked like he wanted to drive.

Fortunately for Tony's career that's gotten better, in large part I think because he's no longer paired up with Rondo. Floor spacing was always bad with those two.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 07, 2013, 02:07:06 PM
Bipolar C's fans clowned Tony Allen when he was in Green for all his miscues. Now that he is excelling in Memphis, they pretend to have loved TA all along and it was a huge mistake not re-signing Tony. Make up your mind people.
Right on.  I've never seen fans act so bipolar about a player in my life.  Good Tony and bad Tony hahaha?  What in the world is that?  A player is the sum of his parts.  He was always the same.  Sometimes he found no rhythm/confidence in those 10-15 minutes, but when he did he locked players down and then dunked on them in transition.  That's not good Tony, that's people failing to understand who he was.  As if players don't have ups and downs.... And as if always recovering from injury doesn't add to that.


I mean the amount of times I saw "I hate Tony Allen" on this site is absurd.  Hate.  You'd think he turned the ball over more than anyone in the league.  He wasn't even the most turnover prone guy on our team.  Perk was.  You didn't see anyone scapegoating "bad Perk" when he didn't bring anything to a game other than defense.
Perkins is more turnover prone by advanced stats  (TOV%) because he'd get called for moving screens a lot and didn't shoot much.

Tony Allen turned the ball over more per minute several years in Boston and his turnovers were usually dribbling the ball off his foot as he drove.

I'd cringe whenever Perkins posted up, as he was awful at turning it over in the post, but I'd cringe just as much whenever Tony "touched" the ball and looked like he wanted to drive.

Fortunately for Tony's career that's gotten better, in large part I think because he's no longer paired up with Rondo. Floor spacing was always bad with those two.

Don't have time for it, but I recall doing a study of TA during the playoffs, and didn't turn the ball over all that much during that time. In fact, he barely turned it over if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: Fafnir on January 07, 2013, 02:10:27 PM
Bipolar C's fans clowned Tony Allen when he was in Green for all his miscues. Now that he is excelling in Memphis, they pretend to have loved TA all along and it was a huge mistake not re-signing Tony. Make up your mind people.
Right on.  I've never seen fans act so bipolar about a player in my life.  Good Tony and bad Tony hahaha?  What in the world is that?  A player is the sum of his parts.  He was always the same.  Sometimes he found no rhythm/confidence in those 10-15 minutes, but when he did he locked players down and then dunked on them in transition.  That's not good Tony, that's people failing to understand who he was.  As if players don't have ups and downs.... And as if always recovering from injury doesn't add to that.


I mean the amount of times I saw "I hate Tony Allen" on this site is absurd.  Hate.  You'd think he turned the ball over more than anyone in the league.  He wasn't even the most turnover prone guy on our team.  Perk was.  You didn't see anyone scapegoating "bad Perk" when he didn't bring anything to a game other than defense.
Perkins is more turnover prone by advanced stats  (TOV%) because he'd get called for moving screens a lot and didn't shoot much.

Tony Allen turned the ball over more per minute several years in Boston and his turnovers were usually dribbling the ball off his foot as he drove.

I'd cringe whenever Perkins posted up, as he was awful at turning it over in the post, but I'd cringe just as much whenever Tony "touched" the ball and looked like he wanted to drive.

Fortunately for Tony's career that's gotten better, in large part I think because he's no longer paired up with Rondo. Floor spacing was always bad with those two.

Don't have time for it, but I recall doing a study of TA during the playoffs, and didn't turn the ball over all that much during that time. In fact, he barely turned it over if I recall correctly.
Yeah his last year in Boston he cut his turnover rate down, definite improvement from him. He then cut it even more in Memphis.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 07, 2013, 02:29:04 PM
Bipolar C's fans clowned Tony Allen when he was in Green for all his miscues. Now that he is excelling in Memphis, they pretend to have loved TA all along and it was a huge mistake not re-signing Tony. Make up your mind people.
Right on.  I've never seen fans act so bipolar about a player in my life.  Good Tony and bad Tony hahaha?  What in the world is that?  A player is the sum of his parts.  He was always the same.  Sometimes he found no rhythm/confidence in those 10-15 minutes, but when he did he locked players down and then dunked on them in transition.  That's not good Tony, that's people failing to understand who he was.  As if players don't have ups and downs.... And as if always recovering from injury doesn't add to that.


I mean the amount of times I saw "I hate Tony Allen" on this site is absurd.  Hate.  You'd think he turned the ball over more than anyone in the league.  He wasn't even the most turnover prone guy on our team.  Perk was.  You didn't see anyone scapegoating "bad Perk" when he didn't bring anything to a game other than defense.
Perkins is more turnover prone by advanced stats  (TOV%) because he'd get called for moving screens a lot and didn't shoot much.

Tony Allen turned the ball over more per minute several years in Boston and his turnovers were usually dribbling the ball off his foot as he drove.

I'd cringe whenever Perkins posted up, as he was awful at turning it over in the post, but I'd cringe just as much whenever Tony "touched" the ball and looked like he wanted to drive.

Fortunately for Tony's career that's gotten better, in large part I think because he's no longer paired up with Rondo. Floor spacing was always bad with those two.

Don't have time for it, but I recall doing a study of TA during the playoffs, and didn't turn the ball over all that much during that time. In fact, he barely turned it over if I recall correctly.
Yeah his last year in Boston he cut his turnover rate down, definite improvement from him. He then cut it even more in Memphis.

Part of it probably due to during the playoffs Rondo was on the floor more, and also Doc stopped using him as a PG.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: tonyto3690 on January 07, 2013, 02:35:17 PM
People forget that Tony was starting to look like a semi-franchise player the 2 months prior to his ACL injury where he was given starter minutes.

He was doing something like 18 PPG, 4 RPG, 52%FG,  4 APG, 2 SPG, 1 BPG during that 20-30 game stretch or whatever it was along with good defense.

Again, I was a HUGE tony supporter, but he made it clear what he wanted and we simply could not give it to him.  He would be a great piece for any team, but he's not a starter on a championship team unless the rest of the starters are CP3, LBJ and an elite bigman with good range.  Given his price and role demands it simply was not in the cards.

Same situation as Glen Davis minus a whole lot of whining, immaturity and unprofesionalism. 
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on January 07, 2013, 02:38:19 PM
People forget that Tony was starting to look like a semi-franchise player the 2 months prior to his ACL injury where he was given starter minutes.

He was doing something like 18 PPG, 4 RPG, 52%FG,  4 APG, 2 SPG, 1 BPG during that 20-30 game stretch or whatever it was along with good defense.

Again, I was a HUGE tony supporter, but he made it clear what he wanted and we simply could not give it to him.  He would be a great piece for any team, but he's not a starter on a championship team unless the rest of the starters are CP3, LBJ and an elite bigman with good range.  Given his price and role demands it simply was not in the cards.

Same situation as Glen Davis minus a whole lot of whining, immaturity and unprofesionalism.

Again, the scenario you're painting is just untrue. He wanted to stay, he had no problem with his role, he wanted more years, Danny drew the line at 2 years, he didn't ask for a big contract, equal money that Memphis gave him would've sufficed... which wasn't much.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: pearljammer10 on January 07, 2013, 02:47:51 PM
Bipolar C's fans clowned Tony Allen when he was in Green for all his miscues. Now that he is excelling in Memphis, they pretend to have loved TA all along and it was a huge mistake not re-signing Tony. Make up your mind people.
He's "excelling in Memphis"? He's exactly the same player he has always been - if not worse this season. He had a big night against the Celtics, something he was definitely capable of before (once in 10 games or so). Please.

Tony Allen is just your typical love hate relationship player. He does great great things and you love him for it. Then he makes crazy bonehead plays and you can't believe he did it. He's just one of those players and he is still playing the same way in Memphis.

Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: Roy H. on January 07, 2013, 02:58:51 PM
I was never a huge Tony fan; I thought he was too turnover prone and was injured too much to commit to long-term.

I was wrong about that, though.  Letting Tony walk was a big mistake, especially considering that he was our backup small forward.  If we never let Tony walk, we probably never make the Perk trade, and we're probably in a better place in 2011.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: KG Living Legend on January 07, 2013, 03:00:08 PM

 No. As got as you good hope for is Jordan in his prime. ;D
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: D.o.s. on January 07, 2013, 03:01:05 PM
Bipolar C's fans clowned Tony Allen when he was in Green for all his miscues. Now that he is excelling in Memphis, they pretend to have loved TA all along and it was a huge mistake not re-signing Tony. Make up your mind people.
He's "excelling in Memphis"? He's exactly the same player he has always been - if not worse this season. He had a big night against the Celtics, something he was definitely capable of before (once in 10 games or so). Please.

Tony Allen is just your typical love hate relationship player. He does great great things and you love him for it. Then he makes crazy bonehead plays and you can't believe he did it. He's just one of those players and he is still playing the same way in Memphis.

Yup, Trick or Treat Tony is alive and well.

It's nice to see him flourishing on Memphis (they're a fun team to watch), but I wouldn't want him walking through that door.
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: CelticG1 on January 07, 2013, 03:08:41 PM
No one will ever convince me that Tony left for.minutes not for more money.

They guy had made very little.money to that point in his career, he was gonna go tontye highest bidder.

I think Tony wanted to stay with the Celtics (just listen to his comments) but had to leave for more money.

Also you didn't have to over pay him. This wasn't a Posey contract. TA got fair if not lower money than he deserved
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: action781 on January 07, 2013, 03:13:17 PM
lets trade jeff green for tony allen. hows that for a trade proposal

In a second
Title: Re: Tony Allen
Post by: mgent on January 07, 2013, 07:18:12 PM
Bipolar C's fans clowned Tony Allen when he was in Green for all his miscues. Now that he is excelling in Memphis, they pretend to have loved TA all along and it was a huge mistake not re-signing Tony. Make up your mind people.
Right on.  I've never seen fans act so bipolar about a player in my life.  Good Tony and bad Tony hahaha?  What in the world is that?  A player is the sum of his parts.  He was always the same.  Sometimes he found no rhythm/confidence in those 10-15 minutes, but when he did he locked players down and then dunked on them in transition.  That's not good Tony, that's people failing to understand who he was.  As if players don't have ups and downs.... And as if always recovering from injury doesn't add to that.


I mean the amount of times I saw "I hate Tony Allen" on this site is absurd.  Hate.  You'd think he turned the ball over more than anyone in the league.  He wasn't even the most turnover prone guy on our team.  Perk was.  You didn't see anyone scapegoating "bad Perk" when he didn't bring anything to a game other than defense.
Perkins is more turnover prone by advanced stats  (TOV%) because he'd get called for moving screens a lot and didn't shoot much.

Tony Allen turned the ball over more per minute several years in Boston and his turnovers were usually dribbling the ball off his foot as he drove.

I'd cringe whenever Perkins posted up, as he was awful at turning it over in the post, but I'd cringe just as much whenever Tony "touched" the ball and looked like he wanted to drive.

Fortunately for Tony's career that's gotten better, in large part I think because he's no longer paired up with Rondo. Floor spacing was always bad with those two.

Sorry, but I just can't see how that justifies so much hate, regardless of the best in league perimeter defense.

Tony's last year here he had 1.2 TO per game with 1.3 assists per game.

Jeff Green has 1.4 TO per game with 0.8 assists per game this season.

Avery Bradley had 1.2 TO per game last year with 1.4 assists per game.

Keeping in mind they averaged 3-6 more minutes than Tony that's still not a ton of separation.  I know Tony was bad, and I know he was worse than these two players.  Most of all I know there's nothing that can be said to justify the amount of crap he got on this board.

Open it up to Tony's last 3 years here and it's 1.4 TO per game and 1.4 assists per game (18mpg).

Regardless of how you spin it, nobody ever says a dang thing about Green and Bradley's TOs and with Tony it was ALL you EVER heard ANYBODY say about him.