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Other Discussions => Other / General Sports => Topic started by: Moranis on February 28, 2018, 10:15:23 AM

Title: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Moranis on February 28, 2018, 10:15:23 AM
http://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup/story/3400487/united-states-led-2026-world-cup-bid-in-jeopardy-to-morocco-sources

Not just the current administration's immigration policies (or the President trashing other countries), but also the FBI investigation into FIFA which took down many South American executives. 

According to the article, Morrocco's bid is being heavily supported by Asia, Africa, and South America, while the U.S. bid, which is joint with Canada and Mexico, is being supported by most of Europe, the Oceanias, the rest of North America (since the 3 hosts can't vote), and some Asian countries.

It really seems odd to me that South America wouldn't support a North American bid, especially since 2026 is the first year the field expands to 48 teams and the U.S. (along with Canada and Mexico) is one of the few countries that can easily support an expanded field.  And I could totally understand if a place like England or Germany was the other country, but Morocco is just a strange bed fellow for the world to die on.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Roy H. on February 28, 2018, 10:23:29 AM
Quote
... but also the FBI investigation into FIFA which took down many South American executives. 

I mean, that’s as far as you need to look. Even though some of the corrupt execs were removed, there are no doubt plenty left.  We’re talking about the same voters, and friends of the same voters, who awarded Qatar a bid.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: KGs Knee on February 28, 2018, 10:43:18 AM
Misleading title....it should read "world politics may cost US".

Our politics seem to have little to do with this.  It's much more of the same corrupt officials of the Asian, African, and South American continents supporting each other.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Donoghus on February 28, 2018, 10:44:52 AM
Quote
... but also the FBI investigation into FIFA which took down many South American executives. 

I mean, that’s as far as you need to look. Even though some of the corrupt execs were removed, there are no doubt plenty left.  We’re talking about the same voters, and friends of the same voters, who awarded Qatar a bid.

Exactly.  The Qatar selection proved that.  Morocco getting the bid over the US wouldn't surprise me at all after that.

It really is neck & neck between the IOC & FIFA over who is more corrupt. 
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: ederson on February 28, 2018, 11:40:53 AM
Quote
... but also the FBI investigation into FIFA which took down many South American executives. 

I mean, that’s as far as you need to look. Even though some of the corrupt execs were removed, there are no doubt plenty left.  We’re talking about the same voters, and friends of the same voters, who awarded Qatar a bid.

Exactly.  The Qatar selection proved that.  Morocco getting the bid over the US wouldn't surprise me at all after that.

It really is neck & neck between the IOC & FIFA over who is more corrupt.

It is true though that FIFA tries to send the circus to every continent. Brazil, Russia, Qatar ... It is Africa's turn
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: KGs Knee on February 28, 2018, 11:46:41 AM
Quote
... but also the FBI investigation into FIFA which took down many South American executives. 

I mean, that’s as far as you need to look. Even though some of the corrupt execs were removed, there are no doubt plenty left.  We’re talking about the same voters, and friends of the same voters, who awarded Qatar a bid.

Exactly.  The Qatar selection proved that.  Morocco getting the bid over the US wouldn't surprise me at all after that.

It really is neck & neck between the IOC & FIFA over who is more corrupt.

It is true though that FIFA tries to send the circus to every continent. Brazil, Russia, Qatar ... It is Africa's turn

Africa has hosted a world cup more recently than North America.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: ederson on February 28, 2018, 12:02:20 PM
North America is separate a continent ?
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Roy H. on February 28, 2018, 12:09:02 PM
North America is separate a continent ?

(https://media1.britannica.com/eb-media/59/89959-050-6CC4DDA1.gif)

Yep.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Eja117 on February 28, 2018, 12:39:31 PM
North America is separate a continent ?
More than Europe
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Jiri Welsch on February 28, 2018, 12:51:46 PM
Just echoing Roy and the OP’s points: Sepp Blatter recently came out in support of Morocco, which leads me to believe his remaining cronies in FIFA want that to happen and not the US.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Moranis on March 07, 2018, 12:40:58 PM
Nothing really ground breaking here, but it is a bit interesting to see what Morocco is pitching. Things like, a better time zone, no 6 hour flights between games, and other things of that nature.

https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/03/07/2026-world-cup-bid-usa-mexico-canada-morocco-fifa-vote

At the end of the day, I can't see how Morocco could support a 32 team field, let alone the expanded 48 team field.  It just doesn't make any sense, but in things like this logic and reason aren't always the driving factor.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: JHTruth on March 07, 2018, 12:44:30 PM
Doesn't Qatar have like actual slavery and support terrorism? Yet FIFA losing their minds over Trump but have no problems with the Putin apparently.

The US will be just fine without the World Cup.. ::)
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: green_bballers13 on March 07, 2018, 12:50:51 PM
Doesn't Qatar have like actual slavery and support terrorism? Yet FIFA losing their minds over Trump but have no problems with the Putin apparently.

The US will be just fine without the World Cup.. ::)

Yeah, I feel that high end/professional soccer is not a priority here. Soccer is increasing in popularity, but still lags. I imagine it will continue to rise as its becoming clear how dangerous football is. In 2018, however, the US didn't make the World Cup, and I'm not sure how concerned mainstream America is.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: nickagneta on March 07, 2018, 02:07:59 PM
Doesn't Qatar have like actual slavery and support terrorism? Yet FIFA losing their minds over Trump but have no problems with the Putin apparently.

The US will be just fine without the World Cup.. ::)
Sure the US will be fine without the World Cup, but the influx of tourism dollars that the World Cup would provide for cities hosting games would be extremely good.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: KGs Knee on March 07, 2018, 02:13:06 PM
FIFA, and it's member countries would stand to profit so much more from a World Cup hosted by the US led group, yet I won't be surprised when most of these member nations vote against their own financial best interests and then turn around and bemoan the state of their finances.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Amonkey on March 07, 2018, 02:34:43 PM
Doesn't Qatar have like actual slavery and support terrorism? Yet FIFA losing their minds over Trump but have no problems with the Putin apparently.

The US will be just fine without the World Cup.. ::)

As others have mentioned, I don't think its as much about Trump and more about the US investigations on corruption that has put many officials in hot water. I think its a grudge they have and if there is more money going towards official pockets, they'll happily vote against their self-interest.

If I'm not mistaken, every official has an equal vote, so Germany has the same exact say as Guam. This means that if you are looking to corrupt agents, just go for the small countries that don't have much at stake and collectively sway a decision one way.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Celtics4ever on March 07, 2018, 05:38:18 PM
Like we have a chance to win the world cup, what have you been smoking.   Woman, have a chance but our men's team has never really been the running no matter how peeps hype it.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Roy H. on March 07, 2018, 06:18:17 PM
Like we have a chance to win the world cup, what have you been smoking.   Woman, have a chance but our men's team has never really been the running no matter how peeps hype it.

The discussion is about hosting, not winning.

It will be several decades, at least, before we win a Cup.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Moranis on April 27, 2018, 12:38:18 PM
http://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup/story/3473731/fifa-points-to-ethics-rules-after-trump-tweets-support-of-world-cup-bid

The latest. Trump's tweet yesterday probably violates FIFA ethics rules.  It is shaping up to be a close vote between Morocco and the joint US/Canada/Mexico bid. 

Still boggles the mind that Morocco has any real shot, especially with the expanded 48 country field and all the problems that apparently exist with their bid to begin with.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Ilikesports17 on April 27, 2018, 12:53:11 PM
http://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup/story/3473731/fifa-points-to-ethics-rules-after-trump-tweets-support-of-world-cup-bid

The latest. Trump's tweet yesterday probably violates FIFA ethics rules.  It is shaping up to be a close vote between Morrocco and the joint US/Canada/Mexico bid. 

Still boggles the mind that Morrocco has any real shot, especially with the expanded 48 country field and all the problems that apparently exist with their bid to begin with.
"FIFA ethics"

My new favorite oxymoron
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Vermont Green on April 27, 2018, 12:53:35 PM
Here is the Trump Tweet:

Quote
"The U.S. has put together a STRONG bid w/ Canada & Mexico for the 2026 World Cup," the president tweeted. "It would be a shame if countries that we always support were to lobby against the U.S. bid. Why should we be supporting these countries when they don't support us (including at the United Nations)?"

I guess this sort of thing is OK in strong arm real estate developer circles but did he really think this was going to be OK?  Support us or else and broadcast this to the world?

Sounds like this clearly violates FIFA's rules but this could even be racketeering, or what ever the legal term is for this sort of extortion.  Morocco could potentially sue us I would think.  Get  Michael Avenatti on this to represent the Moroccan World Cup committee or whatever the entity is.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: crownsy on April 27, 2018, 12:55:27 PM
Lets focus on making the next one first. What a joke the USA mens team was in qualifying this WC.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Moranis on April 27, 2018, 12:56:34 PM
Lets focus on making the next one first. What a joke the USA mens team was in qualifying this WC.
with as bad as they played, hosting might be their only shot at qualifying. 
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Ilikesports17 on April 27, 2018, 01:08:10 PM
Lets focus on making the next one first. What a joke the USA mens team was in qualifying this WC.
with as bad as they played, hosting might be their only shot at qualifying.
I know you are joking, but in a historically dissapointing qualifying period this cycle they missed the World Cup by a single point.

They will undoubtedly make the next World Cup. They are clearly the second most talented team in the Hex.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on April 27, 2018, 01:16:18 PM
Here is the Trump Tweet:

Quote
"The U.S. has put together a STRONG bid w/ Canada & Mexico for the 2026 World Cup," the president tweeted. "It would be a shame if countries that we always support were to lobby against the U.S. bid. Why should we be supporting these countries when they don't support us (including at the United Nations)?"

I guess this sort of thing is OK in strong arm real estate developer circles but did he really think this was going to be OK?  Support us or else and broadcast this to the world?

Sounds like this clearly violates FIFA's rules but this could even be racketeering, or what ever the legal term is for this sort of extortion.  Morocco could potentially sue us I would think.  Get  Michael Avenatti on this to represent the Moroccan World Cup committee or whatever the entity is.

I admit I'm not a legal expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't get the whole "countries suing other countries" thing; like, how does that work? how are inter-country lawsuits even enforced?
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Donoghus on April 27, 2018, 01:55:12 PM
FIFA lecturing anyone on ethics is hilarious.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on April 27, 2018, 01:59:39 PM
FIFA lecturing anyone on ethics is hilarious.

Kinda like the NCAA, right?
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Donoghus on April 27, 2018, 02:10:56 PM
FIFA lecturing anyone on ethics is hilarious.

Kinda like the NCAA, right?

FIFA makes the NCAA look like child's play. 
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: 86MaxwellSmart on April 27, 2018, 02:38:57 PM
That's okay...let's just have it in North Korea--because Donald Trump just ended the freaking Korean War after over 60 years....!
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Ilikesports17 on April 27, 2018, 02:58:02 PM
FIFA lecturing anyone on ethics is hilarious.

Kinda like the NCAA, right?

FIFA makes the NCAA look like child's play.
Honestly, the next World Cup is in a country that still has slavery.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: crownsy on April 27, 2018, 03:29:51 PM
That's okay...let's just have it in North Korea--because Donald Trump just ended the freaking Korean War after over 60 years....!

He does deserve credit for some of it, no doubt.

 although this news that is coming out now about the fact that their main test site was buried under a mountain collapse during one of the underground tests last year according to the Chinese and destroyed throws some light on this sudden change of heart by Kim as well ha.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-koreas-underground-nuclear-test-facility-is-damaged-experts-say-1524643948

It would be very North Korea of them if they accidentally "nuked" their own nuke program, but whatever the reality is I hope they actually are going to go through with their promises.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Celtics4ever on April 27, 2018, 03:37:59 PM
Do we really have a shot of winning the World's Cup.   Maybe in the Woman's side but the Men's Team has a long ways to go and it has nothing to do with politics.

Elite top athletes in the USA do not play soccer, the LeBron James of our country play football, baseball and basketball.  If our freak of nature athletes played soccer we would trounce folks, but they don't.   This too has nothing to do with politics.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: crownsy on April 27, 2018, 03:49:29 PM
Well, when the President of the United States is putting pressure on an organization to choose his Regions bid, it is absolutely political by nature.

That doesn't mean its a bad thing, WC bids are politicized all the time.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Ilikesports17 on April 27, 2018, 03:51:41 PM
Do we really have a shot of winning the World's Cup.   Maybe in the Woman's side but the Men's Team has a long ways to go and it has nothing to do with politics.

Elite top athletes in the USA do not play soccer, the LeBron James of our country play football, baseball and basketball.  If our freak of nature athletes played soccer we would trounce folks, but they don't.   This too has nothing to do with politics.
A little non sequitur but people tend to say this as if Lebron James would be leading the USA to victory if only he played soccer. That's not the case. The problem is not that our NFL and NBA players would be star soccer players were they born in Europe. The problem is that the athletes we have who could have developed into star soccer players instead develop into mediocre basketball and football players.

It's also got a lot to do with our developmental system and our focus on higher education. In Europe all they highly skilled young players end up in academies where their entire focus is soccer at a young age. If you maintained our current infrastructure and made our best athletes play soccer, we still wouldn't be that good I don't think. Our player development is an even bigger problem than our failing to get the best athletes in the building.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: hwangjini_1 on April 27, 2018, 04:26:51 PM
FIFA lecturing anyone on ethics is hilarious.

Kinda like the NCAA, right?

FIFA makes the NCAA look like child's play.
Honestly, the next World Cup is in a country that still has slavery.
hey, the US has a big military base there and considers them to be its good allies. so why not?
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: TheisTheisBaby on April 27, 2018, 09:01:00 PM
Do we really have a shot of winning the World's Cup.   Maybe in the Woman's side but the Men's Team has a long ways to go and it has nothing to do with politics.

Elite top athletes in the USA do not play soccer, the LeBron James of our country play football, baseball and basketball.  If our freak of nature athletes played soccer we would trounce folks, but they don't.   This too has nothing to do with politics.
A little non sequitur but people tend to say this as if Lebron James would be leading the USA to victory if only he played soccer. That's not the case. The problem is not that our NFL and NBA players would be star soccer players were they born in Europe. The problem is that the athletes we have who could have developed into star soccer players instead develop into mediocre basketball and football players.

It's also got a lot to do with our developmental system and our focus on higher education. In Europe all they highly skilled young players end up in academies where their entire focus is soccer at a young age. If you maintained our current infrastructure and made our best athletes play soccer, we still wouldn't be that good I don't think. Our player development is an even bigger problem than our failing to get the best athletes in the building.

To piggyback off of your point about a lack of development, it's that too many coaches are stressing winning over all at the younger ages over development.  Who cares if you're dominating at U8-U12?  Kicking the ball to the fast kid and letting him outrun everyone to score not only hurts him but the rest of the team.  If you develop kids the right way, the results will come when they matter most at U13 and on. 

Another issue I have is that in this country there's this ridiculous myth that only focusing on one sport is a bad thing.  This is just a $$ grab because a lot of schools are pay to play now.  Of course they want kids to play multiple sports, it's more $$.  With a sport like soccer it's irrelevant if you play basketball or baseball.  You need thousands of touches on the ball on a daily basis to improve.  You can alter training methods to make sure kids don't wear down or put too much stress on the same muscles.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Celtics4ever on April 28, 2018, 06:49:38 AM
Quote
A little non sequitur but people tend to say this as if Lebron James would be leading the USA to victory if only he played soccer. That's not the case. The problem is not that our NFL and NBA players would be star soccer players were they born in Europe. The problem is that the athletes we have who could have developed into star soccer players instead develop into mediocre basketball and football players.

The best athletes here play other sports.   I do not see that changing.   Soccer players are on TV, but we do not treat the sport like NBA, NFL and MLB baseball players.   They don't get the money or endorsements or the same respect of society at present.   That could change, but not few years. So you get the leftovers of the other sports or the kids that could not make the team in some cases.  I don't see this changing, until a lot more money gets into the sport.

But if LeBron played soccer from his youth to present, your saying that he would not be a good player.   I hate the guy, but he is fast, can jump and strong and built like a truck.  He is Rara avis  amd would be pretty good, he sees to the court well and would be a solid passer.   I used him as an example because he is so extreme on the scale but that does not change the fact that he would stomp the floor with people if he trained in that sport his whole life.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Ilikesports17 on April 29, 2018, 10:48:09 PM
Quote
A little non sequitur but people tend to say this as if Lebron James would be leading the USA to victory if only he played soccer. That's not the case. The problem is not that our NFL and NBA players would be star soccer players were they born in Europe. The problem is that the athletes we have who could have developed into star soccer players instead develop into mediocre basketball and football players.

The best athletes here play other sports.   I do not see that changing.   Soccer players are on TV, but we do not treat the sport like NBA, NFL and MLB baseball players.   They don't get the money or endorsements or the same respect of society at present.   That could change, but not few years. So you get the leftovers of the other sports or the kids that could not make the team in some cases.  I don't see this changing, until a lot more money gets into the sport.

But if LeBron played soccer from his youth to present, your saying that he would not be a good player.   I hate the guy, but he is fast, can jump and strong and built like a truck.  He is Rara avis  amd would be pretty good, he sees to the court well and would be a solid passer.   I used him as an example because he is so extreme on the scale but that does not change the fact that he would stomp the floor with people if he trained in that sport his whole life.
Disagree.

How many 6'8" soccer players are there? Who knows how his feet are? It's hugely presumptuous to think hes be likely to be a soccer star.
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: Moranis on May 03, 2018, 04:15:20 PM
Quote
A little non sequitur but people tend to say this as if Lebron James would be leading the USA to victory if only he played soccer. That's not the case. The problem is not that our NFL and NBA players would be star soccer players were they born in Europe. The problem is that the athletes we have who could have developed into star soccer players instead develop into mediocre basketball and football players.

The best athletes here play other sports.   I do not see that changing.   Soccer players are on TV, but we do not treat the sport like NBA, NFL and MLB baseball players.   They don't get the money or endorsements or the same respect of society at present.   That could change, but not few years. So you get the leftovers of the other sports or the kids that could not make the team in some cases.  I don't see this changing, until a lot more money gets into the sport.

But if LeBron played soccer from his youth to present, your saying that he would not be a good player.   I hate the guy, but he is fast, can jump and strong and built like a truck.  He is Rara avis  amd would be pretty good, he sees to the court well and would be a solid passer.   I used him as an example because he is so extreme on the scale but that does not change the fact that he would stomp the floor with people if he trained in that sport his whole life.
Disagree.

How many 6'8" soccer players are there? Who knows how his feet are? It's hugely presumptuous to think hes be likely to be a soccer star.
To be fair their just aren't that many people that tall in the world, but there are at least a few professional players cracking 6'10".  Many of the taller players end up being goalkeepers where agility, foot coordination, etc. isn't as important.

I'd say the ideal height for a soccer player is around 6'0" (like Ronaldo), though Messi is only like 5'7". 
Title: Re: U.S. Politics may cost the U.S. the 2026 World Cup
Post by: kozlodoev on May 03, 2018, 04:35:58 PM
I'd say the ideal height for a soccer player is around 6'0" (like Ronaldo), though Messi is only like 5'7".
That's like saying that the ideal height for a basketball player is 6'7... kind of maybe but not always, really.

The real answer is "it depends". Goalies, center backs, and strikers need to be taller. Other backs, wings, and forwards, not so much.

Edwin van der Sar was a world-class player, and he was 6'6. Peter Crouch, 6'7. Jan Koller, 6'8 (have in mind these are barefoot measures, too). There are also plenty of other - taller - examples that I'm too lazy to track down now.