Draft Express Celtics Scouting Report

[zerophase]

This is all silly.  You scout a team, not individual players.  This isn't the NBA draft.

It isn't silly at all. You do scout individual players as well as team tendencies. You break down what moves they use by percentage of the time. What spots they shot the ball from, which way they drive, etc...

This isn't an opposition scouting report, but its worth a read. I find it interesting to see outsiders view on players.

how do you scout a team without scouting its players?

[Sweet17]

You wouldn't get "shouted down by some homers who lack knowledge" if the stats backed up what you were saying. Rondo's still among the leaders in inside fg% (for all players, not just point guards) and gets fouled on a higher percentage of his shots than most PGs. Don't hurt yourself patting your own back.

I explained why that stat doesn't track what you think it does. If you can't grasp that I can't help you.

[BballTim]

You wouldn't get "shouted down by some homers who lack knowledge" if the stats backed up what you were saying. Rondo's still among the leaders in inside fg% (for all players, not just point guards) and gets fouled on a higher percentage of his shots than most PGs. Don't hurt yourself patting your own back.

I explained why that stat doesn't track what you think it does. If you can't grasp that I can't help you.

  No, you explained that the stats don't matter because you said they don't. That argument is less effective than you imagine.

[Sweet17]

 

No, you explained that the stats don't matter because you said they don't. That argument is less effective than you imagine.

Maybe thats what YOU got out of it. But we can't all be rocket scientists I guess. Listen to track finishing ability you would need to track the DIFFICULTY of the shot taken. The 82games stats you love so much do not do that.

That don't distinguish between an easy layup or a difficult reverse left hand layup in traffic. That's why scouting with eyes is so superior to using statistics. It's very easy for an educated observer to see this.

Let's compare two players - Dwayne Wade and Rondo. Who do you think finishes better around the hoop? I know the answer to the question - Wade. Wade takes some of the more difficult layups in the NBA. His "percentage" though is only .622. Whereas Rondo's is .732.

The problem here is that they don't track difficulty in those shots. So that statistic is a measure of the KIND of opportunties a player gets. I am talking about how good a player is at converting difficult opportunities. <g>

[BballTim]

No, you explained that the stats don't matter because you said they don't. That argument is less effective than you imagine.

Maybe thats what YOU got out of it. But we can't all be rocket scientists I guess. Listen to track finishing ability you would need to track the DIFFICULTY of the shot taken. The 82games stats you love so much do not do that.

  First of all, you don't have any problem using numbers from 82games as long as they show Rondo in a bad light. It's just the ones that make him look good that you consider suspect. Secondly, there's more to being a good finisher than the DIFFICULTY of the shot taken. Like not having to take such a difficult shot. If Rondo blows by someone and gets to the rim and someone slower doesn't get the separation and makes fewer but more difficult shot in your book he's a better finisher. That's like saying that a short player who hits 40% of his shots is a better shooter than a taller player who hits 50% of his shots because it's more difficult to shoot over people.

[Sweet17]

That's like saying that a short player who hits 40% of his shots is a better shooter than a taller player who hits 50% of his shots because it's more difficult to shoot over people

That's accurate - Eddie House would be a good example of that. Eddie is a better shooter then say Dirk. Dirk with his height gets easier looks. But if Eddie gets open uncontested Js's he would be lights out. There are lots of guys around the league like that. This is what Danny means when he described Eddie as the best "pure" shooter in the league.

It's the same with finishers.

Secondly, there's more to being a good finisher than the DIFFICULTY of the shot taken. Like not having to take such a difficult shot. If Rondo blows by someone and gets to the rim and someone slower doesn't get the separation and makes fewer but more difficult shot in your book he's a better finisher.

Only if you redefine the word "finisher." If Rondo "blows by" his man (which mean he leaves him in the dust and hits an easy layup that doesn't make him a great finisher. (This of course is assume no help).

"finishing" get this is related to how you finish. ****. The "blow by" is related to the first step. Way to try digging yourself out of losing arguments.

I already conceded that Rondo gets more easy layups because of his speed. But guys like D. Rose and Wade impress me because not only do they have great speed and good hops (Rondo just doesn't elevate that well on his layup attempts) but by the way the can finish very difficult shots.

I think it was JVG but I am not sure - but a commenator was talking just the other day that the difference between guys who can make the initial blow by - and then actually FINISH is the difference between a good player and a superstar. How many times a game do you see a guy make a great move then fail to finish? It helps ALOT especially with the lessor players.

Rondo clearly is a very good player. At times he can be the best player on the Cs. But that little something extra in his finishing could make him a superstar (as well as a better J). He doesn't quite seem to have the knack..though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM2Iel1pM9A

Here is an example of a guy with the knack..

Pete

[BballTim]

That's like saying that a short player who hits 40% of his shots is a better shooter than a taller player who hits 50% of his shots because it's more difficult to shoot over people

That's accurate - Eddie House would be a good example of that. Eddie is a better shooter then say Dirk. Dirk with his height gets easier looks. But if Eddie gets open uncontested Js's he would be lights out. There are lots of guys around the league like that. This is what Danny means when he described Eddie as the best "pure" shooter in the league.

It's the same with finishers.

  Sorry. I thought we were talking about actual nba games, not h-o-r-s-e.

Secondly, there's more to being a good finisher than the DIFFICULTY of the shot taken. Like not having to take such a difficult shot. If Rondo blows by someone and gets to the rim and someone slower doesn't get the separation and makes fewer but more difficult shot in your book he's a better finisher.

Only if you redefine the word "finisher." If Rondo "blows by" his man (which mean he leaves him in the dust and hits an easy layup that doesn't make him a great finisher. (This of course is assume no help).

"finishing" get this is related to how you finish. ****. The "blow by" is related to the first step. Way to try digging yourself out of losing arguments.

  You keep claiming to be an educated observer but your posts point to the opposite. Your main method of measuring PGs is scoring, and you seem more excited about style points than actual production. IMO the best finisher is the player most likely to score when they drive under a given condition.

I already conceded that Rondo gets more easy layups because of his speed. But guys like D. Rose and Wade impress me because not only do they have great speed and good hops (Rondo just doesn't elevate that well on his layup attempts) but by the way the can finish very difficult shots.

  I'm not sure it's a good idea for Rondo to elevate more than he does when he drives because of the number of times he gets bumped in the air and doesn't land on his feet. And I've never said that he was as good (or better) at finishing than James or Wade or Rose because, contrary to your statements, I don't judge finishing ability solely on stats.

I think it was JVG but I am not sure - but a commenator was talking just the other day that the difference between guys who can make the initial blow by - and then actually FINISH is the difference between a good player and a superstar. How many times a game do you see a guy make a great move then fail to finish? It helps ALOT especially with the lessor players.

Pete

  So hitting over 70% of your shots doesn't qualify as FINISHING? In what universe?

  BTW, someone should ask JVG how Rondo was able to dominate in games 2 and 6 without hitting a bunch of outside shots. That went completely against his thesis for the finals.

[Sweet17]

So hitting over 70% of your shots doesn't qualify as FINISHING? In what universe?

The same universe that says Kendrick Perkins wasn't the best shooter in the NBA last year.. Those stats you quote don't support your point. It's like talking to a brick wall..

Perkins "inside" performance has dipped from .691 to .644 this year. Call me crazy but I think Perkins is taking tough shots and his 'finishing' ability is the same.