The Solution to Our Problem (AKA How to Get Harden & Move Walker): Ball Bros.

[GreenlyGreeny]

https://tradenba.com/trades/oTZbGzHtP

1.

To NOP: Walker
To BOS: Ball & Bledsoe

Commentary: New Orleans has not extended Ball, and MJ is probably licking his chops at a Lonzo/LaMelo Ball backcourt. Let’s help improve New Orleans and simultaneously give MJ what he wants by giving up Kemba.

2.

To CHA: Ball, Edwards and Green
To BOS: Rozier and 2024 CHA 1st

Commentary: We’ll take on Rozier’s ridiculous contract in return for a 1st. From MJ’s perspective, he’s got the Ball Bros. Buzz. He needs someone to help get New Orleans because Charlotte has nobody of interest to them.

3.

To BOS: Harden

To HOU:
Brown
Bledsoe
‘21 BOS 1st (unprotected)
‘23 BOS 1st (unprotected)
‘24 CHA 1st (unprotected)
‘25 BOS 1st (unprotected)
‘27 BOS 1st (top 3 protected)
‘21 BOS 2nd (via OKC)
‘22 BOS 2nd (via CHA prior trade)
‘24 BOS 2nd
‘25 BOS 2nd

Lineup

Harden / Teague / Pritchard
Smart / Rozier / Langford
Tatum / Nesmith
Theis / Ojeyele / G. Williams / Jefferson
TT / R. Williams

Commentary: Save the 15th spot for a potential TPE deal at the deadline. Always have Smart on the court with Harden, and sometimes have Smart relieving Tatum at the 3.

[Roy H.]

Kemba + Brown for Harden doesn’t move the needle into top-tier contender status for us, does it?

Theis / Ojeyele / G. Williams / Jefferson
TT / R. Williams

This seems like a problem to me.

[michigan adam]

no no no, and hell no.
I don't want harden straight up for kemba, let alone 5 firsts and 4 seconds.  Are you a laker fan, as this would ruin the C's for well over a decade.  Harden is poison.

[GreenlyGreeny]

Kemba + Brown for Harden doesn’t move the needle into top-tier contender status for us, does it?

All these stories coming out about Harden, I bet he can be had for Brown and picks. The Rockets’ owner wants to burn Morey, too, so we’ve got a chance. Bledsoe would give them another starter next to Wall and is only to make the cap work.

Theis / Ojeyele / G. Williams / Jefferson
TT / R. Williams

This seems like a problem to me.

100% agree. We’d need to turn the TPE into a 4/5.

[GreenlyGreeny]

no no no, and hell no.
I don't want harden straight up for kemba, let alone 5 firsts and 4 seconds.  Are you a laker fan, as this would ruin the C's for well over a decade.  Harden is poison.

Best offensive player in the game today. He’s hungry for a title. Make him PG and pair him with a sidekick like Tatum, who knows his turn as number one eventually comes after Harden’s decline in a few years, and make sure Smart can defend the best guard on the floor every night, and watch magic.

Ruin us for well over a decade? In case we have a debacle, where the Harden experiment flops and Tatum jumps ship in 2026, we still have a top 3 protection on the 2027 pick. Name the last non-lottery pick we turned into a solid starter (answer: Rozier, who’s coming home, but who besides him and Bradley?). Name the last All-Star caliber talent we drafted outside the top three. Name the last 2nd round pick we made that yielded a starter.

This is giving up Brown for a shot at the title. Even if Harden does not pan out, we’ll have cap room in 2-3 years for a marquee signing next to Tatum. It’s really relatively low-risk/high-reward if we can unload Kemba instead of Smart.

[PhoSita]

Harden is not the solution to anybody's problem.

[PhoSita]

Best offensive player in the game today. He’s hungry for a title. Make him PG and pair him with a sidekick like Tatum, who knows his turn as number one eventually comes after Harden’s decline in a few years, and make sure Smart can defend the best guard on the floor every night, and watch magic.

The only thing you would accomplish by making Tatum into a "sidekick" after he took charge of the team last year is motivate him to ask for a trade once he's a year or two away from the end of his deal.

[hwangjini_1]

no no no, and hell no.
I don't want harden straight up for kemba, let alone 5 firsts and 4 seconds.  Are you a laker fan, as this would ruin the C's for well over a decade.  Harden is poison.

Best offensive player in the game today. He’s hungry for a title. Make him PG and pair him with a sidekick like Tatum, who knows his turn as number one eventually comes after Harden’s decline in a few years, and make sure Smart can defend the best guard on the floor every night, and watch magic.

Name the last non-lottery pick we turned into a solid starter (answer: Rozier, who’s coming home, but who besides him and Bradley?). Name the last 2nd round pick we made that yielded a starter.

This is giving up Brown for a shot at the title.

al jefferson
delonte west
rajon rondo
tony allen
jared sullinger

oh, did you only want one non-lottery pick who turned into a solid starter? sorry.

and it is a bit humorous that your argument includes "name me someone who did x, but don't name these two players." 

[GreenlyGreeny]

no no no, and hell no.
I don't want harden straight up for kemba, let alone 5 firsts and 4 seconds.  Are you a laker fan, as this would ruin the C's for well over a decade.  Harden is poison.

Best offensive player in the game today. He’s hungry for a title. Make him PG and pair him with a sidekick like Tatum, who knows his turn as number one eventually comes after Harden’s decline in a few years, and make sure Smart can defend the best guard on the floor every night, and watch magic.

Name the last non-lottery pick we turned into a solid starter (answer: Rozier, who’s coming home, but who besides him and Bradley?). Name the last 2nd round pick we made that yielded a starter.

This is giving up Brown for a shot at the title.

al jefferson
delonte west
rajon rondo
tony allen
jared sullinger

oh, did you only want one non-lottery pick who turned into a solid starter? sorry.

You do realize 2021 is days away, right? The 2000s are not the last decade but the decade before the last. Sully was fine for 1-2 years. We still have our 2022, 2024, 2026, 2028 and 2029 picks, so still have a shot at another Sully (2012, Obama’s first term) in the next 8 years...

and it is a bit humorous that your argument includes "name me someone who did x, but don't name these two players." 

The point was that it’s almost 2021 and all but one of those names was drafted so long ago that they are no longer even active in the league...

The quantity of picks is to help Houston save face. The value is Brown and maybe the 2024 Charlotte pick unless MJ’s bet on the Ball Bros. is right (personally like the Lonzo/LaMelo/Gordon Big 3)

[GreenlyGreeny]

Best offensive player in the game today. He’s hungry for a title. Make him PG and pair him with a sidekick like Tatum, who knows his turn as number one eventually comes after Harden’s decline in a few years, and make sure Smart can defend the best guard on the floor every night, and watch magic.

The only thing you would accomplish by making Tatum into a "sidekick" after he took charge of the team last year is motivate him to ask for a trade once he's a year or two away from the end of his deal.

Danny needs to make the trade and privately tell Tatum that if the Harden experiment flops, he’s going to make sure there’s cap room for a max player to pair with Tatum in 2023 (e.g., Jokic, the ultimate hedge against a Harden flop!). Tell him he’s still The Franchise, but to truly win a title we need two superstars, not one.

It makes zero sense why everyone on here is so in love with Brown, a borderline all-star who may have already hit his ceiling (with a remote chance of becoming a borderline superstar like Butler, not a top five superstar like Harden, Giannis, Kawhi, LeBron and Steph). We’re not going to win a title with Brown as our second best player, especially not with Harden coming to the East. All-stars win divisions and superstars win titles. Let’s seize this superstar opportunity, folks!

[Ogaju]

OP must be a Rocket fan. No one is worth that haul. N O    O N E ! ! !

[GreenlyGreeny]

OP must be a Rocket fan. None is worth that haul. N O    O N E ! ! !

Celtics fan through and through.

Here’s the deal: With the exception of the Raptors, who probably only won because KD and Klay both got injured, all of the champions since the last CBA had at least two superstars (heck, gotta go back to 2011 to find the last team before the Raptors to do it). 

All-stars win divisions and superstars win titles. We need that second superstar. He’s standing right before us. If it is a pairing that works, which I’m confident it will be, we gave up a bunch of picks in the 20s (hopefully a couple 30th picks) and 2nd round picks plus Brown for Harden, with the Kemba move creating cap flexibility/affordability.

[PhoSita]

Ainge 1st rounders in the last decade


2010 - Bradley - Became a solid starter
2011 - JaJuan Johnson - Couldn't stick in the league at all
** (but he also drafted E. Moore in the 2nd round who has become a solid rotation guard)
2012 - Sully - Solid rotation big for a few years; Fab - Not an NBA player (RIP)
2013 - Olynyk - Still a quality rotation big
2014 - Smart - core piece; James Young - not an NBA player
2015 - Rozier - solid rotation guard; RJ Hunter - not an NBA player
2016 - Jaylen - All-Star caliber wing; Yabu - not an NBA player
2017 - Tatum - Superstar
2018 - Timelord - backup center with promise
2019 - Langford - injured, too soon to say; Grant - useful role player already
2020 - Nesmith - can't say yet; Pritchard - can't say yet


So . . . 17 picks total. 

Three top 10 picks.  All major hits.

Three late lottery picks.  One hit and two that are too soon to tell.

Five mid-1st picks.  Three hits, one mixed (useful but fell out of the league fast), and two total busts.

Six late 1st rounders.  Two that are already end of rotation players, so you can call those hits.  One incomplete.  Three total misses.



I dunno ... that seems like a pretty good success rate, to me.  It's just hard to build out your team via the draft when you're mostly picking in the last third of the first round.

What Ainge did is hit big on the top 10 picks he had.  That's much more important than finding role players at the end of the 1st round.


It seems worse because a lot of the guys Ainge drafted in the middle of the 1st who became solid NBA players got paid and the team let them go.  But that was needed in order to have cap space to sign guys like Hayward, Horford, and Kemba.  You can't pay a premium to keep young role players (i.e. 7-9th men) and also chase max FA.

[NKY fan]

Ainge 1st rounders in the last decade


2010 - Bradley - Became a solid starter
2011 - JaJuan Johnson - Couldn't stick in the league at all
** (but he also drafted E. Moore in the 2nd round who has become a solid rotation guard)
2012 - Sully - Solid rotation big for a few years; Fab - Not an NBA player (RIP)
2013 - Olynyk - Still a quality rotation big
2014 - Smart - core piece; James Young - not an NBA player
2015 - Rozier - solid rotation guard; RJ Hunter - not an NBA player
2016 - Jaylen - All-Star caliber wing; Yabu - not an NBA player
2017 - Tatum - Superstar
2018 - Timelord - backup center with promise
2019 - Langford - injured, too soon to say; Grant - useful role player already
2020 - Nesmith - can't say yet; Pritchard - can't say yet


So . . . 17 picks total. 

Three top 10 picks.  All major hits.

Three late lottery picks.  One hit and two that are too soon to tell.

Five mid-1st picks.  Three hits, one mixed (useful but fell out of the league fast), and two total busts.

Six late 1st rounders.  Two that are already end of rotation players, so you can call those hits.  One incomplete.  Three total misses.



I dunno ... that seems like a pretty good success rate, to me.  It's just hard to build out your team via the draft when you're mostly picking in the last third of the first round.

What Ainge did is hit big on the top 10 picks he had.  That's much more important than finding role players at the end of the 1st round.


It seems worse because a lot of the guys Ainge drafted in the middle of the 1st who became solid NBA players got paid and the team let them go.  But that was needed in order to have cap space to sign guys like Hayward, Horford, and Kemba.  You can't pay a premium to keep young role players (i.e. 7-9th men) and also chase max FA.

You can rationalize it all night long but the reality is that we are in a slightly worse position compared to when we drafted Tatum. It seems like all this asset accumulation went to waste

[Sophomore]

So Boston’s “big 3” would be Harden, Tatum, and Smart. And behind them is a really, really thin bench. I don’t see that team as a title contender. Houston with Harden and Chris Paul was better constructed and they didn’t even reach the finals.

I’d rather take my chances that Kemba’s knee comes back, that we can get better with the TPE, and that Nesmith or Romeo will be better than Terry (yuck) Rozier. I think that last option is pretty likely.