The love for young players, explain it to me?

[jade88]

So admittedly i'm the type of guy who isn't into watching young players, i don't watch college basketball. So when these guys come into the NBA, especially on my Celtics, i just hope they don't drag the team down when they hit the floor. We have a 53 win playoff team, it's nice to be in the mix, a few pieces short or not.


I just like watching the best players in the world, the NBA's top 20-25 players and all of the great role players. Basketball is a joy to watch, i just don't like watching unpolished kids. When they mature it's great, but i don't like '' The Process''. 27 years old and up is where it's at for me, not that there aren't very good players below that.


It just seems like on internet forums like this, they love them some youth. I see Philly and their rebuild cheered on with tons of hyperbole comments about their future, people like what the Bucks have going on, add the Wolves and it's hysteria. It's just funny, we don't have a Wiggins or Towns and we're a better team. We roll out IT4 who never saw a combine he impressed in, Al Horford, and a few vets mixed with some young kids and we make it to the ECF.

For all of the hype for the internet darling kids out of college, nothing is guaranteed to any of those teams. Hell nothing is guaranteed to us! We can hope Jaylen Brown and Fultz are as good as Paul George and Gordon Hayward, but they could easily not be.


Give me the sure thing, especially when it's already great. Some flame me if you must, but i don't get the fascination with these kids out of college and the philosophy that waiting for them is better than adding to what we have. What excites some of you about the long road and the unknown?

[droopdog7]

Shiny new toy syndrome.  That's it really.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

We made the ECF because we have Brad Stevens and those teams have Jason Kidd, Brett Brown, and Thibs (with all offensive minded players). Young players can grow up and become good and you don't have to max them out unless they get really, really good. Signing vets is expensive, even for mediocre ones.

Ideally you have a mix of both youth and vets but if you don't have a strong core (our core is medium-strong) you need to build that first. We have high draft picks which means we have a great shot at building a core.

Also, vets have choices. In order to build a "Big 3" you need at least a "Large 1" to start with. When we had PP we had that. LBJ is that. Curry is that and Klay and Dray are cherries on top. How do you get that Large 1? You draft it.

[Donoghus]

Shiny new toy syndrome.  That's it really.

Pretty much.  Add the allure of potential and it has a pretty intoxicating effect on some people.

[More Banners]

Shiny new toy syndrome.  That's it really.

More than that, it's the limitless possibility of "potential."  Hope for the future, and the occasional flash of excellence that fuels that hope, despite all the missed assignments and turnovers.

[Ilikesports17]

So do you actually want someone to explain the love for young players? it seems pretty self-explanatory to me.

27 year olds dont have upside. You pretty much know what you are getting. Draft picks have the potential upside to eventually compete for a championship. Im sure if you put together a lineup of veterans that could compete for a title people would get fired up about that too.

[droopdog7]

Having said that, lots of fans seem to have this fascination of building of team of guys where the core is like, all the same age.  Let's draft these guys, grow them together, and then we'll win a bunch of titles. 

Unfortunately that sort of thing is rare in the NBA.  First, lots of draft picks don't become stars.  Second, a losing culture is a real thing.  You draft young guys and you're going to lose a lot.

Third, fans tend to overrate young guys.  Brown is a prime example.  Talented with potential, but he has a looonnngg way to go.  People don't understand how big the gap is between showing flashes in a supporting role and being the lead actor.

Brown may very well become a good player; maybe even a star.  But he has a lot of work to do.  I still don't trust that jump shot.  Let's see if he can maintain his percentage or if he regresses.  Has to finish better but I think this is something he'll figure out.  Those mid range shots (step back, turn arounds, pull ups) he takes need to become automatic.  As it is, they are hit and miss.  Needs to figure out team defense.  Dude is lost half the time and in the popcorn machine the other half.  Needs to work on his handle, which is going to be much more difficult to do.  Someone like Fultz, who is nearly two year younger, can already do most of those things better than Brown. 

This should give you an idea of what kind of prospect Brown really is compared to others.  But hey, kid's got tools and potential  so let's see what happens. But I will take a proven guy that is already better than what Brown will ever be (e.g., PG13) all day long. 

[jade88]

We made the ECF because we have Brad Stevens and those teams have Jason Kidd, Brett Brown, and Thibs (with all offensive minded players). Young players can grow up and become good and you don't have to max them out unless they get really, really good. Signing vets is expensive.

Ideally you have a mix of both but if you don't have a strong core (our core is medium-strong) you need to build that first.

We had a top 3 scorer, who was the 2nd best closer in the NBA. Literally one of the best scoring seasons overall in a Celtics uniform. I like Brad but c'mon, he isn't and wasn't winning anything until he got a scorer like Thomas.

[ETNCeltics]

Is this a serious thread? GSW built the NBAs best team via the draft. Good thing their fans had the patience to wait a few years for Curry & Co to mature.

We're not going to be able to land an elite player for our assets. If we can get Durant or AD with our picks, great. But if you're more realistic about who we can get, but think Paul George is an elite player, you haven't been paying attention.

Our owner said getting a transcendent player in the draft is more valuable than getting a good veteran for the pick, and that if you make that trade you'd better be getting something great in return considering the salaries. Our GM said he believed there was a transcendent player in this draft. Since we have the first pick, he'd better be able to find him. So right off the bat, you're trading what our GM calls a transcendent player at a low salary for a veteran who is not elite, and will have a high salary (not to mention will be a FA 1 year hence). And everyone who's been watching the '18 prospects thinks that the '18 big men are the best in many years, and the Euro prospect at the top of the draft is a franchise player and the best euro prospect ever.

These superteam scenarios fans are dreaming up are not only foolish because the Celtics won't pay the luxury tax penalty, but also because we're still trying to build around a 5'9 guard who can't defend anyone, we'd still likely be considered no better than the 3rd best team in the league, and we'd have surrendered our future for a 2-3 year shot (if that) at winning a title.

So what's the love for young players? They're the foundation of building a long-term contender. The better question is how anyone can entertain not going that direction.

[kozlodoev]

Is this a serious thread? GSW built the NBAs best team via the draft. Good thing their fans had the patience to wait a few years for Curry & Co to mature.

Yeah, it is a serious thread. For every Golden State, there are multiple teams like the Clippers and the 76ers mired in mediocrity for years and years while trying to "build" via the draft.

[jade88]

Is this a serious thread? GSW built the NBAs best team via the draft. Good thing their fans had the patience to wait a few years for Curry & Co to mature.

We're not going to be able to land an elite player for our assets. If we can get Durant or AD with our picks, great. But if you're more realistic about who we can get, but think Paul George is an elite player, you haven't been paying attention.

Our owner said getting a transcendent player in the draft is more valuable than getting a good veteran for the pick, and that if you make that trade you'd better be getting something great in return considering the salaries. Our GM said he believed there was a transcendent player in this draft. Since we have the first pick, he'd better be able to find him. So right off the bat, you're trading what our GM calls a transcendent player at a low salary for a veteran who is not elite, and will have a high salary (not to mention will be a FA 1 year hence). And everyone who's been watching the '18 prospects thinks that the '18 big men are the best in many years, and the Euro prospect at the top of the draft is a franchise player and the best euro prospect ever.

These superteam scenarios fans are dreaming up are not only foolish because the Celtics won't pay the luxury tax penalty, but also because we're still trying to build around a 5'9 guard who can't defend anyone, we'd still likely be considered no better than the 3rd best team in the league, and we'd have surrendered our future for a 2-3 year shot (if that) at winning a title.

So what's the love for young players? They're the foundation of building a long-term contender. The better question is how anyone can entertain not going that direction.

The same Paul George who once was a game away from taking Roy Hibbert and David West to the NBA Finals and beating a repeat Heat team with Lebron and co.? You're right, he's not elite. He certainly couldn't go further with more talent and better coaching. He probably doesn't care about winning either.

C'mon, there is no reasonable scenario where Jaylen Brown is going to be better than this guy, if we are VERY lucky he will be just as good.... maybe...... someday.


Danny is one of the most reasonable minds when it comes to determining who is transcendent and who isn't. I'd be surprised if he was honestly as enthused as Wyc over this draft class, and Wyc has to act like he has the golden ticket. Gotta drive up the price.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

Is this a serious thread? GSW built the NBAs best team via the draft. Good thing their fans had the patience to wait a few years for Curry & Co to mature.

We're not going to be able to land an elite player for our assets. If we can get Durant or AD with our picks, great. But if you're more realistic about who we can get, but think Paul George is an elite player, you haven't been paying attention.

Our owner said getting a transcendent player in the draft is more valuable than getting a good veteran for the pick, and that if you make that trade you'd better be getting something great in return considering the salaries. Our GM said he believed there was a transcendent player in this draft. Since we have the first pick, he'd better be able to find him. So right off the bat, you're trading what our GM calls a transcendent player at a low salary for a veteran who is not elite, and will have a high salary (not to mention will be a FA 1 year hence). And everyone who's been watching the '18 prospects thinks that the '18 big men are the best in many years, and the Euro prospect at the top of the draft is a franchise player and the best euro prospect ever.

These superteam scenarios fans are dreaming up are not only foolish because the Celtics won't pay the luxury tax penalty, but also because we're still trying to build around a 5'9 guard who can't defend anyone, we'd still likely be considered no better than the 3rd best team in the league, and we'd have surrendered our future for a 2-3 year shot (if that) at winning a title.

So what's the love for young players? They're the foundation of building a long-term contender. The better question is how anyone can entertain not going that direction.

The same Paul George who once was a game away from taking Roy Hibbert and David West to the NBA Finals and beating a repeat Heat team with Lebron and co.? You're right, he's not elite. He certainly couldn't go further with more talent and better coaching. He probably doesn't care about winning either.

C'mon, there is no reasonable scenario where Jaylen Brown is going to be better than this guy, if we are VERY lucky he will be just as good.... maybe...... someday.


Danny is one of the most reasonable minds when it comes to determining who is transcendent and who isn't. I'd be surprised if he was honestly as enthused as Wyc over this draft class, and Wyc has to act like he has the golden ticket. Gotta drive up the price.

Oh so this yet another trade for PG13 thread. I get it now.

[boscel33]

I think the love for young players is in the details.  You mentioned Paul George and Gordon Hayward, guess what, they were both young players once.   

You can throw in Steph Curry, KD, Lebron, Klay, etc.  All have been young players.  NOTE: Steph's first three years in the league, the GSW were below .500 team.

As far as I can tell, there are two ways to building a championship team;  integrating youth with a few vets or trading the youth for the players mentioned above to speed up the process.  Each, I believe has pros and cons.  Going the youth route, lengthens the time to win, but also lengthens the window.  Utilizing the second method, shortens the time to win, but also shortens the window, as seen recently with the last C's big three.

[ETNCeltics]

Is this a serious thread? GSW built the NBAs best team via the draft. Good thing their fans had the patience to wait a few years for Curry & Co to mature.

Yeah, it is a serious thread. For every Golden State, there are multiple teams like the Clippers and the 76ers mired in mediocrity for years and years while trying to "build" via the draft.

There aren't "multiple teams" trying to do anything. Most teams don't have a real plan. They sputter along in mediocrity, afraid to gut their team, with no way to join the elite other than the draft, but too afraid to start over with their team so they get high picks. On occasion a team will hit it late in the draft like SA did with Kawhi, but for the most part, lottery picks dominate the game.

The teams that have had lasting success over the last several years, either had Lebron James or built their team through the draft like GSW and SA. Don't really see how that's arguable.

[jade88]

Is this a serious thread? GSW built the NBAs best team via the draft. Good thing their fans had the patience to wait a few years for Curry & Co to mature.

We're not going to be able to land an elite player for our assets. If we can get Durant or AD with our picks, great. But if you're more realistic about who we can get, but think Paul George is an elite player, you haven't been paying attention.

Our owner said getting a transcendent player in the draft is more valuable than getting a good veteran for the pick, and that if you make that trade you'd better be getting something great in return considering the salaries. Our GM said he believed there was a transcendent player in this draft. Since we have the first pick, he'd better be able to find him. So right off the bat, you're trading what our GM calls a transcendent player at a low salary for a veteran who is not elite, and will have a high salary (not to mention will be a FA 1 year hence). And everyone who's been watching the '18 prospects thinks that the '18 big men are the best in many years, and the Euro prospect at the top of the draft is a franchise player and the best euro prospect ever.

These superteam scenarios fans are dreaming up are not only foolish because the Celtics won't pay the luxury tax penalty, but also because we're still trying to build around a 5'9 guard who can't defend anyone, we'd still likely be considered no better than the 3rd best team in the league, and we'd have surrendered our future for a 2-3 year shot (if that) at winning a title.

So what's the love for young players? They're the foundation of building a long-term contender. The better question is how anyone can entertain not going that direction.

The same Paul George who once was a game away from taking Roy Hibbert and David West to the NBA Finals and beating a repeat Heat team with Lebron and co.? You're right, he's not elite. He certainly couldn't go further with more talent and better coaching. He probably doesn't care about winning either.

C'mon, there is no reasonable scenario where Jaylen Brown is going to be better than this guy, if we are VERY lucky he will be just as good.... maybe...... someday.


Danny is one of the most reasonable minds when it comes to determining who is transcendent and who isn't. I'd be surprised if he was honestly as enthused as Wyc over this draft class, and Wyc has to act like he has the golden ticket. Gotta drive up the price.

Oh so this yet another trade for PG13 thread. I get it now.

No, it's about the sentiment and overall hype for young prospects. I will point out that Paul George is a tremendous player if need be.