Author Topic: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season  (Read 12937 times)

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Re: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2008, 09:28:08 AM »

Offline the_Bird

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Making a counterargument that I don't entirely buy into...

For referees to accurately assess whether something is a flop or an offensive foul in the flow of the game is extremely difficult (especially with the clowns they have on the court).  But, you can probably make a pretty decent assessment of what is and what is not a flop at the League offices, with benefit of slow-motion and high-def replays. 

Thing is, I can't see how something like a $10k fine would really be a deterrant for most players in the league, if continuing to flop is going to help their team pull out a few wins.  The possibility of a suspension, on the other hand....

At its core, the League's problem is the quality and consistency of its officiating - if you have officials who can do their job professionally, all of this flopping BS is simply a nonissue without having to change ANY rules.

Re: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2008, 09:38:03 AM »

Offline quikblink

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In Europe the refs give a warning for the first flop. If any player flops again a TF is is
called. I think is better than a fine.
When you flop you earn something for your team. So the "punishement" should take something from the team also.

I just think that the speed of the game is so fast that the you cant put the onus on the refs.  If they thought they were flopping they wouldnt call it a foul anyway.

Re: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2008, 09:40:56 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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In Europe the refs give a warning for the first flop. If any player flops again a TF is is
called. I think is better than a fine.
When you flop you earn something for your team. So the "punishement" should take something from the team also.

I just think that the speed of the game is so fast that the you cant put the onus on the refs.  If they thought they were flopping they wouldnt call it a foul anyway.

The problem is that the refs are not calling what they see, they're making a ton of guess work and "filling the blanks" for the sake of making a call. I'm of the believe of, if you don't see it you don't call it.

Re: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2008, 09:55:44 AM »

Offline CelticsWhat35

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Terrible idea. 



Get ready to see FT parades.  The only way to avoid blocking calls that should be called charges is to fall down.


Players start losing money, they are going to have to just foul. 



Or worst, get out of the way.

Are you kidding me?  It's a great idea.  This isn't up to the refs.  These fines will be assessed after plays are reviewed on video.  It may be tough to catch a flopper during a game, but not with the luxury of video replay afterwards.  And despite what you say, you can still take a charge without flopping.  If you fall down when a guy rams into you going to the basket, that's a charge.  But if you fall down at the slightest contact, or begin to fall before even being touched, that's flopping.  And that has made the game much less enjoyable to watch.  Anything that can be done to curb players from doing this is a good idea.

Re: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2008, 10:02:06 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I wonder if Lebron James is just going to set up a $500,000 account at the league offices and have them take his fines out of that. Maybe the pre-payment route will work in limiting his flop fines.

If not, I wonder if they'll accept his American Express?

Of course, as you all know, I'm just kidding. LeBron never flops. 180-200lb men knock over 6'9", 265 muscle behemoths that happen to have outrageous balance and body coordination all the time. ;) ::) ;D

Re: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2008, 10:11:24 AM »

Offline DannyZ

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Richard Hamilton has already called the league to see if he can pre-pay for next year and to ask if the fines will be tax deductible.

Re: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2008, 10:11:52 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Terrible idea. 



Get ready to see FT parades.  The only way to avoid blocking calls that should be called charges is to fall down.


Players start losing money, they are going to have to just foul. 



Or worst, get out of the way.

Are you kidding me?  It's a great idea.  This isn't up to the refs.  These fines will be assessed after plays are reviewed on video.  It may be tough to catch a flopper during a game, but not with the luxury of video replay afterwards.  And despite what you say, you can still take a charge without flopping.  If you fall down when a guy rams into you going to the basket, that's a charge.  But if you fall down at the slightest contact, or begin to fall before even being touched, that's flopping.  And that has made the game much less enjoyable to watch.  Anything that can be done to curb players from doing this is a good idea.


And when guys start losing money try to step in front of guys, they will stop stepping in front of guys. 

And, like I said, the only way to get an offensive foul call is to fall down.  Now, players will work harder to stay on their feet, thus allowing for more FTs.  (exciting)  Or, they will start getting fined and the guys will just get out of the way (which is what the NBA really wants.  More half court dunks)


They are ignoring the real problem.  Bad officials. 



Here is the way to fix it. 

1) Call offensive fouls, offensive fouls.  Even if the defensive player doesn't fall.

2) If a defensive player falls down when there is no foul, offensive player is then allowed to use them as a stepping stone. 


That will clean up flopping real fast. 

Re: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2008, 10:12:31 AM »

Offline rmcc4444

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In Europe the refs give a warning for the first flop. If any player flops again a TF is is
called. I think is better than a fine.
When you flop you earn something for your team. So the "punishement" should take something from the team also.

the problem with this is often flops aren't seen until after they are reviewed.


Re: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2008, 10:16:31 AM »

Offline rmcc4444

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Terrible idea. 



Get ready to see FT parades.  The only way to avoid blocking calls that should be called charges is to fall down.


Players start losing money, they are going to have to just foul. 



Or worst, get out of the way.

Are you kidding me?  It's a great idea.  This isn't up to the refs.  These fines will be assessed after plays are reviewed on video.  It may be tough to catch a flopper during a game, but not with the luxury of video replay afterwards.  And despite what you say, you can still take a charge without flopping.  If you fall down when a guy rams into you going to the basket, that's a charge.  But if you fall down at the slightest contact, or begin to fall before even being touched, that's flopping.  And that has made the game much less enjoyable to watch.  Anything that can be done to curb players from doing this is a good idea.


And when guys start losing money try to step in front of guys, they will stop stepping in front of guys. 

And, like I said, the only way to get an offensive foul call is to fall down.  Now, players will work harder to stay on their feet, thus allowing for more FTs.  (exciting)  Or, they will start getting fined and the guys will just get out of the way (which is what the NBA really wants.  More half court dunks)


They are ignoring the real problem.  Bad officials. 



Here is the way to fix it. 

1) Call offensive fouls, offensive fouls.  Even if the defensive player doesn't fall.

2) If a defensive player falls down when there is no foul, offensive player is then allowed to use them as a stepping stone. 


That will clean up flopping real fast. 

you're missing the point.  often refs are 'fooled' into calling fouls because of the acting.

Re: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2008, 10:18:25 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Terrible idea. 



Get ready to see FT parades.  The only way to avoid blocking calls that should be called charges is to fall down.


Players start losing money, they are going to have to just foul. 



Or worst, get out of the way.

Are you kidding me?  It's a great idea.  This isn't up to the refs.  These fines will be assessed after plays are reviewed on video.  It may be tough to catch a flopper during a game, but not with the luxury of video replay afterwards.  And despite what you say, you can still take a charge without flopping.  If you fall down when a guy rams into you going to the basket, that's a charge.  But if you fall down at the slightest contact, or begin to fall before even being touched, that's flopping.  And that has made the game much less enjoyable to watch.  Anything that can be done to curb players from doing this is a good idea.


And when guys start losing money try to step in front of guys, they will stop stepping in front of guys. 

And, like I said, the only way to get an offensive foul call is to fall down.  Now, players will work harder to stay on their feet, thus allowing for more FTs.  (exciting)  Or, they will start getting fined and the guys will just get out of the way (which is what the NBA really wants.  More half court dunks)


They are ignoring the real problem.  Bad officials. 



Here is the way to fix it. 

1) Call offensive fouls, offensive fouls.  Even if the defensive player doesn't fall.

2) If a defensive player falls down when there is no foul, offensive player is then allowed to use them as a stepping stone. 


That will clean up flopping real fast. 

you're missing the point.  often refs are 'fooled' into calling fouls because of the acting.


The problem isn't so much that the refs are 'fooled'.   It is they want to call fouls for players. 


Teach them how to call fouls. 

Re: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2008, 10:21:00 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Do these fines change the way "hustle" guys approach defensive possessions? 50,000 to Leon Powe means a heck of a lot more than it does to Paul Pierce (both floppers)

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Re: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2008, 10:47:29 AM »

Offline Chris

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Terrible idea. 



Get ready to see FT parades.  The only way to avoid blocking calls that should be called charges is to fall down.


Players start losing money, they are going to have to just foul. 



Or worst, get out of the way.

Not necessarily.  They could legitimately beat them to the spot.  This is what guys like Perk and Garnett do constantly (which is why they never have to flop).

But most players in the NBA can't do that, so likely what will happen is there will be a ton of blocking fouls called next year, like you said, and then eventually, players will just get out of the way, and we will be back to 120-115 games.

Re: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2008, 10:51:25 AM »

Offline CelticsWhat35

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Do these fines change the way "hustle" guys approach defensive possessions? 50,000 to Leon Powe means a heck of a lot more than it does to Paul Pierce (both floppers)

Who cares?  As much as I love Leon's hustling, the flopping part of his game is unwarranted.  As long as he gets into proper defensive position, he doesn't need to flop.  People seem to be confusing taking a charge with flopping.  Taking charges is a neccessary part of the game.  Flopping isn't.  Taking a hit from a guy driving to the basket and falling to the ground isn't a flop.  Sure, a guy could take the hit, and then back up and stay on his feet, which should still be a charge if his feet were planted during the initial contact.  But refs won't call that unless the offensive player blatantly lowered his shoulder.  So falling down in that instance isn't flopping, and there would be no fine for it.  What there would be a fine for is crap like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ukde193ivM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNN9ZiH38fs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEJRi1EIw_o

NBA to Fine Flopping?
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2008, 11:52:54 AM »

Offline ChainSmokingLikeDino

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http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3416579

It's a start. A problem that really does have to be dealt with.

Re: Fines will be imposed for clear cases of flopping next season
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2008, 12:26:41 PM »

Online bdm860

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From what I get from reading this:  the league is going to be reviewing plays after the game is completed to determine if there was or was not a flop.

So last night, if the Celtics were flopping like Rasheed is complaining about, then the league would review the plays today and assess fines.  So for the sake of argument, let's say the league determined the Celtics flopped 3 times last game.  They're not going to go back and reverse the calls from last night so the outcome will still be the same.  The C's get the win, but a few players get hit with fines which I would guess would be on the light side of 5k or 10k.  If you have a chance to win a playoff game by flopping, a little fine that will be determined days later is not going to deter me. Players get fined for technical fouls right now, but that doesn't really seem to stop players from getting technicals, so why would a fine for flopping be any different? It's already been said, but the best way to stop flopping is to call nothing.  If you flop and the refs call nothing, your man is getting a wide open shot.  Giving away uncontested layups to the other team would help stop flopping real quick.  Educate the refs.  Call nothing!

Also does the league really know who pays the fine?  Say Rondo is fined 10k for flopping, but because of the flop the C's won the game.  If management actually pays the fine for him (as a thank you for doing something that got the win) would the league even know?  I'm sure it's against the salary cap rules, but really who would know?  How does the league determine this?

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