Author Topic: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”  (Read 4244 times)

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Offline CelticsElite

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Michael Jordan, speaking at a press conference in Paris, on LeBron James/MJ comparisons: “We play in different eras. He’s one of the best players in the world. It’s a natural tendency to compare eras to eras... I think he’s made his mark. He will continue to do so.”



It seems that he will be using the era argument to counter lebron being considered the goat

Re: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2020, 01:07:57 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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He's not wrong.


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Re: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2020, 01:08:55 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Also Lebron needs more titles if he wants that argument to be more serious.

Re: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2020, 01:16:36 PM »

Offline CelticsPoetry

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Also Lebron needs more titles if he wants that argument to be more serious.
Which is not happening

Re: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2020, 01:26:42 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Also Lebron needs more titles if he wants that argument to be more serious.
Which is not happening

I hate to admit it, but they definitely have a chance this year.

Re: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2020, 01:37:07 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I fail to see the comparison.

It’s almost the equivalent of comparing Westbrook to Magic.

Losing 6 of his 9 Finals (and if not for two huge shots by teammates, he could very just have 1 title) is huge IMO.

Of course Jordan had help, but he did it the right way. LeBron has to team up with friends via conveniently-timed free agency, then went back to Cleveland and called all the shots. Now in LA, he once again colluded his way back to relevance (after missing the playoffs).

I know the recency bias is strong here, with many who think this is debatable have not seen Jordan in his absolute prime. But I’ll take Jordan over LeBeon, and I wouldn’t think twice about it.

I know people think comparing eras is an excuse, but Jordan would probably have multiple 40ppg seasons nowadays with the rules and 3pt shooting (players who grew up in before the 90’s didn’t shoot threes all day like kids do now). Conversely, LeBron would probably have lower stats across the board playing in the 80’s/90’s.
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Re: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2020, 02:04:54 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I never understood the argument that losing in the Finals is somehow worse than not making the Finals at all.  I certainly understand the argument that more Finals wins is better than less Finals wins, but Jordan played 15 seasons, he made 6 Finals, so there were 9 times his teams weren't even good enough to finish 2nd.  6 is still better than 3, but 6 2nd places can't be disregarded as nothing either.  That is what really separates Jack from Tiger in golf.  I get Jack has 18 wins and Tiger has 15 wins, but Jack also has 19 2nd places (Phil has the next most 2nd places with 11).  That is just astronomical. 
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Re: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2020, 02:09:04 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I never understood the argument that losing in the Finals is somehow worse than not making the Finals at all.  I certainly understand the argument that more Finals wins is better than less Finals wins, but Jordan played 15 seasons, he made 6 Finals, so there were 9 times his teams weren't even good enough to finish 2nd.  6 is still better than 3, but 6 2nd places can't be disregarded as nothing either.  That is what really separates Jack from Tiger in golf.  I get Jack has 18 wins and Tiger has 15 wins, but Jack also has 19 2nd places (Phil has the next most 2nd places with 11).  That is just astronomical.

I think there are two different arguments there.

1) Finals appearances.  I agree that guys seem to get punished more for losing in the Finals than not making the Finals.  It's stupid.

2) Finals record.   A sub .500 record in the Finals is going to hang over Lebron.  Justified or not.  In terms of legacy, what's done on the largest stage is going to play a major impact in the way a lot of people perceive legacies.  A guy could average 50-15-15 in the Finals but if his team loses, he's going to still get dinged whether its deserved or not.


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Re: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2020, 02:19:32 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I never understood the argument that losing in the Finals is somehow worse than not making the Finals at all.  I certainly understand the argument that more Finals wins is better than less Finals wins, but Jordan played 15 seasons, he made 6 Finals, so there were 9 times his teams weren't even good enough to finish 2nd.  6 is still better than 3, but 6 2nd places can't be disregarded as nothing either.  That is what really separates Jack from Tiger in golf.  I get Jack has 18 wins and Tiger has 15 wins, but Jack also has 19 2nd places (Phil has the next most 2nd places with 11).  That is just astronomical.

I think there are two different arguments there.

1) Finals appearances.  I agree that guys seem to get punished more for losing in the Finals than not making the Finals.  It's stupid.

2) Finals record.   A sub .500 record in the Finals is going to hang over Lebron.  Justified or not.  In terms of legacy, what's done on the largest stage is going to play a major impact in the way a lot of people perceive legacies.  A guy could average 50-15-15 in the Finals but if his team loses, he's going to still get dinged whether its deserved or not.

Yea especially on number 2. A bigger part of that though is his team clearly had more talent than the Dallas team he lost too, and most feel it had at least similar talent to a Spurs team that dominated his Heat team one series. If he wins those two finals a lot of the discussion around him are probably very different. And again this is all nitpicking, 95% of the population has him a top 3 all time.

Re: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2020, 02:54:59 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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He's not wrong here..

Shaquille O'Neal even mentioned this a few months ago....how it is impossible (but fun I admit) to compare eras....

Shaq vs Wilt?

Russell vs Kareem?

Shaq vs Kareem?

Hakeem vs Russell?

Michael vs Lebron?

Kobe vs Dr J?

Larry vs LeBron?

Duncan vs Kareem?

It DOES make for fun conversation....makes for interesting NBA 2k rosters....but fruitless nonetheless.

Yes - Rings matter....but are not the end all.

IMO I think the End All is HOF induction.

I just think there are some GREAT players that - for whatever reason - were blocked / stopped from winning rings.

Barkley...Mailman....Stockton...Payton...Ewing....THESE players were stopped by Michael BUT are still HOFers and great nonetheless.

It has even been debated on NBATV that if PRIME Arvydas Sabonis would've made it to the NBA in the 80s he would've affected the outcome of some banners....

In the end it makes for fun conversation though.

Re: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2020, 03:23:30 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I never understood the argument that losing in the Finals is somehow worse than not making the Finals at all.  I certainly understand the argument that more Finals wins is better than less Finals wins, but Jordan played 15 seasons, he made 6 Finals, so there were 9 times his teams weren't even good enough to finish 2nd.  6 is still better than 3, but 6 2nd places can't be disregarded as nothing either.  That is what really separates Jack from Tiger in golf.  I get Jack has 18 wins and Tiger has 15 wins, but Jack also has 19 2nd places (Phil has the next most 2nd places with 11).  That is just astronomical.

I think there are two different arguments there.

1) Finals appearances.  I agree that guys seem to get punished more for losing in the Finals than not making the Finals.  It's stupid.

2) Finals record.   A sub .500 record in the Finals is going to hang over Lebron.  Justified or not.  In terms of legacy, what's done on the largest stage is going to play a major impact in the way a lot of people perceive legacies.  A guy could average 50-15-15 in the Finals but if his team loses, he's going to still get dinged whether its deserved or not.
Lebron's teams have been favored in 2 Finals.  The Dallas series and the first San Antonio series.  Every other Finals series, Lebron's team was a betting underdog and in some cases a rather large underdog (3 of the 5 Cleveland appearances).  So he lost a time he was favored, but he also led 2 lesser teams to victories against better teams (at least by betting odds).  The simple reality is, it is because Lebron was so brilliant that he often willed lesser teams to the Finals, including perhaps the worst Finals teams in history (that 07 Cleveland team). If Lebron was a lesser player no way some of those teams even make the finals, so I have a hard time holding those losses against him personally (certainly the first and last Cleveland appearance i.e. 07 and 18 - take those out and he is 3-4, still below .500 but not as striking either).  The Dallas series really is the one that stands out, but he has been brilliant so many other times, to hold a few games of lesser play against him just seems petty.
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Re: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2020, 03:33:54 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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Pretty interesting that the "greatest player ever" was only favored in two finals

I trust Danny Ainge

Re: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2020, 03:52:15 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I never understood the argument that losing in the Finals is somehow worse than not making the Finals at all.  I certainly understand the argument that more Finals wins is better than less Finals wins, but Jordan played 15 seasons, he made 6 Finals, so there were 9 times his teams weren't even good enough to finish 2nd.  6 is still better than 3, but 6 2nd places can't be disregarded as nothing either.  That is what really separates Jack from Tiger in golf.  I get Jack has 18 wins and Tiger has 15 wins, but Jack also has 19 2nd places (Phil has the next most 2nd places with 11).  That is just astronomical.

I think there are two different arguments there.

1) Finals appearances.  I agree that guys seem to get punished more for losing in the Finals than not making the Finals.  It's stupid.

2) Finals record.   A sub .500 record in the Finals is going to hang over Lebron.  Justified or not.  In terms of legacy, what's done on the largest stage is going to play a major impact in the way a lot of people perceive legacies.  A guy could average 50-15-15 in the Finals but if his team loses, he's going to still get dinged whether its deserved or not.
Lebron's teams have been favored in 2 Finals.  The Dallas series and the first San Antonio series.  Every other Finals series, Lebron's team was a betting underdog and in some cases a rather large underdog (3 of the 5 Cleveland appearances).  So he lost a time he was favored, but he also led 2 lesser teams to victories against better teams (at least by betting odds).  The simple reality is, it is because Lebron was so brilliant that he often willed lesser teams to the Finals, including perhaps the worst Finals teams in history (that 07 Cleveland team). If Lebron was a lesser player no way some of those teams even make the finals, so I have a hard time holding those losses against him personally (certainly the first and last Cleveland appearance i.e. 07 and 18 - take those out and he is 3-4, still below .500 but not as striking either).  The Dallas series really is the one that stands out, but he has been brilliant so many other times, to hold a few games of lesser play against him just seems petty.

The general public isn't going to care about much of that.    At the end to the day, they're simply going to see a sub .500 record for Lebron in the Finals up against 6-0 for Jordan.

I'm not saying its right but that, along with the Decision/Superfriends, are going to be the biggest items to hang over Lebron when it comes to GOAT/legacy talk among a great deal of sports fans.


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Re: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2020, 03:55:08 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I never understood the argument that losing in the Finals is somehow worse than not making the Finals at all.  I certainly understand the argument that more Finals wins is better than less Finals wins, but Jordan played 15 seasons, he made 6 Finals, so there were 9 times his teams weren't even good enough to finish 2nd.  6 is still better than 3, but 6 2nd places can't be disregarded as nothing either.  That is what really separates Jack from Tiger in golf.  I get Jack has 18 wins and Tiger has 15 wins, but Jack also has 19 2nd places (Phil has the next most 2nd places with 11).  That is just astronomical.

I think there are two different arguments there.

1) Finals appearances.  I agree that guys seem to get punished more for losing in the Finals than not making the Finals.  It's stupid.

2) Finals record.   A sub .500 record in the Finals is going to hang over Lebron.  Justified or not.  In terms of legacy, what's done on the largest stage is going to play a major impact in the way a lot of people perceive legacies.  A guy could average 50-15-15 in the Finals but if his team loses, he's going to still get dinged whether its deserved or not.
Lebron's teams have been favored in 2 Finals.  The Dallas series and the first San Antonio series.  Every other Finals series, Lebron's team was a betting underdog and in some cases a rather large underdog (3 of the 5 Cleveland appearances).  So he lost a time he was favored, but he also led 2 lesser teams to victories against better teams (at least by betting odds).  The simple reality is, it is because Lebron was so brilliant that he often willed lesser teams to the Finals, including perhaps the worst Finals teams in history (that 07 Cleveland team). If Lebron was a lesser player no way some of those teams even make the finals, so I have a hard time holding those losses against him personally (certainly the first and last Cleveland appearance i.e. 07 and 18 - take those out and he is 3-4, still below .500 but not as striking either).  The Dallas series really is the one that stands out, but he has been brilliant so many other times, to hold a few games of lesser play against him just seems petty.

The general public isn't going to care about much of that.    At the end to the day, they're simply going to see a sub .500 record for Lebron in the Finals up against 6-0 for Jordan.

I'm not saying its right but that, along with the Decision/Superfriends, are going to be the biggest items to hang over Lebron when it comes to GOAT/legacy talk among a great deal of sports fans.


Let's not forget that for many years, Lebron had an easy path to the Finals in the East, with almost no legit threats for most of that run. Can't say the same for MJ, Bird, Magic, etc.

In the few cases where he did have legit threats, he failed to make the finals.

Re: MJ on Lebron: “we played in different eras. He made his mark”
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2020, 04:02:22 PM »

Offline SDceltGuy

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Pretty interesting that the "greatest player ever" was only favored in two finals

I think that says a lot about the mediocre teams he dragged to the Finals.