Author Topic: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season  (Read 16294 times)

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Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #105 on: October 13, 2020, 03:23:25 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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- Trade Kemba to the Knicks for #8 + 2021 Knicks first. No need to match salaries. The Knicks can absorb Kemba's contract via cap space. The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the Celtics (Kemba's salary + $100,000).

Just commenting on the trade, this would be good for a rebuilding team but I don't see it for the Celtics, a team that already has too many draft picks.  You do get the trade exception and you would have the opportunity to trades picks and things for an actual player, so if you do that, great.  It is a risk though if you don't have that second trade already in mind and already lined up.

This clears the Walker salary, gets you Halliburton or Okongwu, and leaves you with a juicy draft pick. You could work out another deal to get both. It makes it easier to keep Hayward, who compliments our core and isn't a defensive liability.

Walker is a great guy and a good player, but he doesn't bring the type of value that wins a tough playoff series. Shots have to move. Tatum needs them, Brown needs them and we need a few for our bench to develop.

The Knicks picks are very high quality picks, and they allow us to align the team and the budget. Players who compliment maximizing Tatum, Brown and defense are the way to go. Kemba just doesn't support that approach.
Signing Kemba and then flipping him for draft picks isn't going to happen.  Ainge is 61.  He's looking to win now not rebuild. 

Also why would the Knicks want Kemba?  Even if they did, they wouldn't give up #8 and an unprotected 2021 for him.

Why for the Knicks
- Most scouts believe that this year's draft isn't heavy on star players.
- The Knicks are desperate to sign a star.
- Hopefully (on their part), Kemba would help them attract more stars in the future via free agency.
- Trading away their 2021 first would give them more wiggle room to go after 2 star free agents in 2021 (Giannis, Kawhi, George, Jrue, Gobert, Oladipo, you name it).

Fwiw, New York City is an attractive destination for many players. Kemba is from Harlem, NY. Given that he grew up a Knicks fan, he may enjoy the idea of playing for his hometown team.

Why for the C's
- Kemba got about 5 months of rest during the quarantine, yet he still wasn't himself in the playoffs. It's possible that he's facing a chronic issue with his left knee. Danny is on record as saying that Kemba ''is not what he was''.
Quote from: Danny Ainge
I wasn't there - I was watching from here (Boston) - but I can see even when he was here before the bubble started (...) he was definitely not himself. (...) I can tell he wasn't the same physically as he was in October, November, December. (...) still a really good player, but I think he is not what he was. There is nothing more frustrating for an athlete to be in the biggest stage in the world in your sport and not be able to be yourself.
- I'm not a fan of Kemba's contract (especially given his knee issue). We'll be paying him $37,653,300 in 2022-2023. He'll be 33 years old at the end of that season.
- Kemba doesn't share the same time window with Tatum-Brown.

Obviously, we only do the trade if we have a player in mind at #8. Personally speaking, my target would be Haliburton. If he isn't on the board at #8, I wouldn't pull the trigger.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 03:34:19 PM by Jvalin »

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #106 on: October 13, 2020, 03:34:45 PM »

Offline td450

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- Trade Kemba to the Knicks for #8 + 2021 Knicks first. No need to match salaries. The Knicks can absorb Kemba's contract via cap space. The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the Celtics (Kemba's salary + $100,000).

Just commenting on the trade, this would be good for a rebuilding team but I don't see it for the Celtics, a team that already has too many draft picks.  You do get the trade exception and you would have the opportunity to trades picks and things for an actual player, so if you do that, great.  It is a risk though if you don't have that second trade already in mind and already lined up.

This clears the Walker salary, gets you Halliburton or Okongwu, and leaves you with a juicy draft pick. You could work out another deal to get both. It makes it easier to keep Hayward, who compliments our core and isn't a defensive liability.

Walker is a great guy and a good player, but he doesn't bring the type of value that wins a tough playoff series. Shots have to move. Tatum needs them, Brown needs them and we need a few for our bench to develop.

The Knicks picks are very high quality picks, and they allow us to align the team and the budget. Players who compliment maximizing Tatum, Brown and defense are the way to go. Kemba just doesn't support that approach.
Signing Kemba and then flipping him for draft picks isn't going to happen.  Ainge is 61.  He's looking to win now not rebuild. 

Also why would the Knicks want Kemba?  Even if they did, they wouldn't give up #8 and an unprotected 2021 for him.

Ainge is rational. Considering his own age is irrational. I also made the points I made not to rebuild, but to make the team work best right now. Kemba doesn't fit, right now.

If the team had Halliburton and Okongwu instead of Kemba next year, it would be a better team right away, not because they are as good as Kemba, but because they are better complimentary players for Tatum and Brown.

Would the Knicks want him for that price? I agree they probably wouldn't, but he would make them better for at least a few years.

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #107 on: October 13, 2020, 03:52:35 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Ainge is rational. Considering his own age is irrational. I also made the points I made not to rebuild, but to make the team work best right now. Kemba doesn't fit, right now.

If the team had Halliburton and Okongwu instead of Kemba next year, it would be a better team right away, not because they are as good as Kemba, but because they are better complimentary players for Tatum and Brown.

Would the Knicks want him for that price? I agree they probably wouldn't, but he would make them better for at least a few years.

Two rookies are going to make the team better than a 4-time all star in his prime?  I don't see it.  I am not opposed to trading Kemba, I think his salary could be better spent on more size.  I just don't think trading him for two rookies is a "win now' strategy.  Get an upper tier starting-caliber big for Kemba and I am in.

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #108 on: October 13, 2020, 04:01:18 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I'm still holding out hope for a Hayward for Collins trade. I'd then sign Gallinari to the full non-taxpayer MLE and use the Bi-Annual exception on an upgrade for Wanamaker (Gallinari has recently said that winning is more important the money in his next contract).

I realize this is unrealistic, but not many teams are like ATL and have the ability to absorb Hayward into their cap space while also sending back a player at a position of need for us. And as much as people hate talking about the luxury tax, it would completely take care of the repeater tax problem.
What are you giving up besides Hayward to get Collins?    If Gallo said winning is more important than money, why would he choose Boston rather than other winning teams?

He would choose BOS because we would be able to offer him the full MLE rather than the taxpayer MLE. He would also have a starting spot on our roster that just went to the ECF w/ lots of room to improve.

I'm not sure what else we would need to give up. Honestly, both teams seem to fill a pretty big hole w/ this deal. Collins should be able to play a lot of 5 and Hayward would help bring some veteran leadership to a Hawks team that needs it. A 1st to cover the salary would likely be appreciated, but at least it's expiring (and who else are the Hawks really going to sign this offseason?)

If this were a possibility, I hope Ainge would be up front with Hayward about what was about to go down. It would probably kill the deal, but it's not like good teams have a ton of money to spend this offseason. Perhaps he'd ask for a s&t elsewhere. Hopefully we'd still be able to sign Gallo, but we'd still need a big man - especially w/ reports that Kanter is considering opting out.

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #109 on: October 13, 2020, 04:10:51 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I am just not sure any deal involving Kemba is 'realistic'. A max player who had several options the previous offseason is seldomly moved within a year of signing that max contract. I remember Dwight Howard was traded pretty quickly after signing with the Hawks a few seasons ago (not quite a max). Griffin was sent to DET soon after he inked his 5-yr max, but I assume both sides knew what they were getting into. The Russell/Wiggins deal was also a mid-season trade, but that worked out for Russell as he is now able to play with his friend.

If we did send out Kemba, it couldn't be to the Knicks or Hawks or anything; we would have to send him to an favorable situation. Even in the IT deal where we sent him to the EC favorites as the presumed starting PG, people are still talking about how evil Danny is. I mean, it's pretty much the reason AD isn't on our team right now.

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #110 on: October 13, 2020, 05:55:24 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I am just not sure any deal involving Kemba is 'realistic'. A max player who had several options the previous offseason is seldomly moved within a year of signing that max contract. I remember Dwight Howard was traded pretty quickly after signing with the Hawks a few seasons ago (not quite a max). Griffin was sent to DET soon after he inked his 5-yr max, but I assume both sides knew what they were getting into. The Russell/Wiggins deal was also a mid-season trade, but that worked out for Russell as he is now able to play with his friend.

If we did send out Kemba, it couldn't be to the Knicks or Hawks or anything; we would have to send him to an favorable situation. Even in the IT deal where we sent him to the EC favorites as the presumed starting PG, people are still talking about how evil Danny is. I mean, it's pretty much the reason AD isn't on our team right now.


eh the reason AD isn't on our team right now is because he wanted to play in LA with LeBron
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Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #111 on: October 13, 2020, 06:17:30 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Ainge is rational. Considering his own age is irrational. I also made the points I made not to rebuild, but to make the team work best right now. Kemba doesn't fit, right now.

If the team had Halliburton and Okongwu instead of Kemba next year, it would be a better team right away, not because they are as good as Kemba, but because they are better complimentary players for Tatum and Brown.

Would the Knicks want him for that price? I agree they probably wouldn't, but he would make them better for at least a few years.

Two rookies are going to make the team better than a 4-time all star in his prime?  I don't see it.  I am not opposed to trading Kemba, I think his salary could be better spent on more size.  I just don't think trading him for two rookies is a "win now' strategy.  Get an upper tier starting-caliber big for Kemba and I am in.

Nikola Vucevic fits the bill. We could run our offense through him like we did with Horford, and put a rim running defensive specialist next to him. I could see Orlando having serious interest in a trade with Walker-Vucevic as central pieces.
Clearing $36M in salary over the next 3 years (thus $12M a year on average) is attractive as well.

We know Vucevic was great in 18/19 when he made the All Star game, but his 19/20 season wasn't too shabby either:

Regular season Vucevic: 20/11/4, shooting 53(2FG%)/34/78 => 55 TS%
Playoffs (5 games vs Bucks) Vucevic: 28/11/4, shooting 57(2FG%)/41/91 => 60 TS%

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #112 on: October 13, 2020, 06:39:41 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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You guys know the available/tradable  talent better than I...so,

Walker - Brown - Tatum  (The only guarantees on roster)

The above three need a starting NBA power forward and a starting center.

with that step complete above newly formed five need:

Bench point guard
Bench shooter
Bench center
Bench PF
Plus assorted folks who won't get playoff minutes...ever.

Hayward is not taking a discount because he doesn't have to.

The Theis - Kanter - Robert - Semi - Poirier era needs to transition.

If you start a playoff game with a front court composed of bench players you will achieve a poor result - 2020 & 2019

Danny, please, I know you can do it. Get out of the golf cart, get on the phone, stop trying to break the record for winning every trade and get the J's some size. Small players bounce off of big players and get sore after 6 games of it.


Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #113 on: October 14, 2020, 04:38:21 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Going to make a slight alteration on my initial idea:

Trade 1:
https://tradenba.com/trades/jbDRsBkMH

Boston trades: Daniel Theis, Enes Kanter, Romeo Langford, #30

Memphis trades: Jonas Valanciunas

Why for Boston: Significant upgrade at the C position. Valanciunas has been a beast in Memphis. 16/11 in 27MPG, leaves R Williams ~20 or so minutes as well, a significant uptick from his 13.4 this season. JV also can go with anyone strength-wise.

Why for Memphis: They shed a contract that they probably don't want to keep, as JV doesn't match the age profile of their guys. They get experienced veterans to help them stay in playoff-mode, but these guys won't get in the way of Clarke and JJJ. Also get a 1st round pick and a prospect.

Trade 2:
https://tradenba.com/trades/qT68MPkrl

Boston trades: Kemba Walker, #26

New Orleans trade: Jrue Holiday, Darius Miller

Why for Boston: Adds the 2nd best guard defender in the comp to the team with the best one already there! Downgrade in scoring and shooting but Jrue has more size than Kemba, can pass well and is still a decent scorer. Darius Miller could return to being a good bench shooter if his injury doesn't wreck him.

Why for New Orleans: Adds a more serious scoring threat to play alongside Lonzo, and more importantly a guy who can space the floor much more for Zion to go to work. Add another 1st rounder which could be used on a 3&D wing off the bench to replace what's lost by Miller, but younger and probably better.

Trade 3:
https://tradenba.com/trades/VqzIuHtVI

Boston trades: #14

Philadelphia trades: #21 and #36

Draft:

21. Desmond Bane: Elite of the elite when it comes to 3P shooting, is an NBA-ready body and can play solid defence. Only concern is his wingspan, but with his shooting touch and strength I'm not overly worried.

36. Paul Reed: Defensively reminiscent of Josh Smith, except better at rebounding and less athletic (still very bouncy and long). Smith was a genuine nightmare in his day, good for 2BPG and 1.5SPG in his prime. Could always do with a defender of that calibre.

47. Sam Merrill: Insanely elite shooter, good passer, high IQ. What more could you want? His shooting is really next level, as he can shoot from the mid-range, three, both moving and stationary, both dribbling and off-ball, and is a 90% FT shooter. I think he'll be overlooked because of age, but he'll be great.

Free Agency:

Say goodbye to: Semi Ojeleye, Javonte Green, Brad Wanamaker, Tacko Fall

Extend: Gordon Hayward (4/75)

Resign: Tremont Waters to another 2-way

MLE: Alec Burks

Vet Min: Marvin Williams

Roster for 2020-21:

Jrue Holiday / Marcus Smart / Tremont Waters
Jaylen Brown / Desmond Bane / Sam Merrill
Gordon Hayward / Alec Burks / Darius Miller
Jayson Tatum / Grant Williams / Paul Reed
Jonas Valanciunas / Robert Williams / Marvin Williams

Given the amount of Kemba trade ideas I wasn't really too bothered giving one. I think that team is pretty near unstoppable
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #114 on: October 14, 2020, 05:42:44 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Vet Min: Marvin Williams
He announced his retirement about a month ago.

https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FMarcJSpears%2Fstatus%2F1303511423100878853&widget=Tweet


Given the amount of Kemba trade ideas I wasn't really too bothered giving one.
Really don't like trades #1 and #3 tbh, but I'd do the Kemba trade. Welcome aboard the bandwagon! :P

« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 05:50:45 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #115 on: October 14, 2020, 05:55:22 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Vet Min: Marvin Williams
He announced his retirement about a month ago.

https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FMarcJSpears%2Fstatus%2F1303511423100878853&widget=Tweet
Oh lame! I've always liked him ever since he was an Atlanta Hawk, even though he was a mighty bust taken right before Deron Williams and Chris Paul.

Given the amount of Kemba trade ideas I wasn't really too bothered giving one.
Really don't like trades #1 and #3 tbh, but I'd do the Kemba trade. Welcome aboard the bandwagon! :P
Fair enough, I definitely know the JV one is going to be polarising. I would certainly do the Kemba one though. A lineup featuring Jrue-Smart-JB would be ridiculous
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #116 on: October 14, 2020, 06:45:17 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Vet Min: Marvin Williams
He announced his retirement about a month ago.

https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FMarcJSpears%2Fstatus%2F1303511423100878853&widget=Tweet
Oh lame! I've always liked him ever since he was an Atlanta Hawk, even though he was a mighty bust taken right before Deron Williams and Chris Paul.
TP for having 3 Williamses on the same roster! They could have even coexisted in the same lineup.

If only we could trade for Lou Williams and then draft Patrick Williams at #14. 8)

PG: (bring Jason Williams out of retirement for just 1 game)
SG: Lou Williams
SF: Patrick Williams
PF: Grant Williams
C: Robert Williams

There is also a guy named Emmitt Williams projected to go undrafted this year.

Quote from: nbadraftroom.com
PF – LSU – HT: 6'6'' – WT: 210 - WING: 6'11'' – Sophomore – A heart and hustle player who is aggressive on the court, has good hands and a developing skill set. A powerful dunker and a force in the paint who out-works everyone else on the court.

Comp: Jerami Grant lite

Never heard of him until 5 minutes ago, but I'm already sold! Too bad he ain't a PG. :P
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 07:30:11 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #117 on: October 14, 2020, 07:27:31 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Vet Min: Marvin Williams
He announced his retirement about a month ago.

https://publish.twitter.com/?query=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FMarcJSpears%2Fstatus%2F1303511423100878853&widget=Tweet
Oh lame! I've always liked him ever since he was an Atlanta Hawk, even though he was a mighty bust taken right before Deron Williams and Chris Paul.
TP for having 3 Williamses on the same roster! They could have even coexisted in the same lineup.

If only we could trade for Lou Williams and then draft Patrick Williams at #14. 8)

PG: (bring Jason Williams out of retirement for just 1 game)
SG: Lou Williams
SF: Patrick Williams
PF: Grant Williams
C: Robert Williams

There is also a guy named Emmitt Williams projected to go undrafted this year.

Quote from: nbadraftroom.com
PF – LSU – HT: 6'6'' – WT: 210 - WING: 6'11'' – Sophomore – A heart and hustle player who is aggressive on the court, has good hands and a developing skill set. A powerful dunker and a force in the paint who out-works everyone else on the court.

Comp: Jerami Grant lite

Never heard of him until 5 minutes ago, but sign me up cause I like his name! Too bad he ain't a PG. :P
This team lines up nicely with the Indiana All-TJ team

PG: Unretired TJ Ford
SG: TJ McConnell
SF: TJ Williams (former G-League player)
PF: TJ Warren
C: TJ Leaf

We got a game! The TJ's are going to get smoked. Maybe this could be the next Globetrotters vs Generals?
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #118 on: October 14, 2020, 08:03:59 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I am just not sure any deal involving Kemba is 'realistic'. A max player who had several options the previous offseason is seldomly moved within a year of signing that max contract. I remember Dwight Howard was traded pretty quickly after signing with the Hawks a few seasons ago (not quite a max). Griffin was sent to DET soon after he inked his 5-yr max, but I assume both sides knew what they were getting into. The Russell/Wiggins deal was also a mid-season trade, but that worked out for Russell as he is now able to play with his friend.

If we did send out Kemba, it couldn't be to the Knicks or Hawks or anything; we would have to send him to an favorable situation. Even in the IT deal where we sent him to the EC favorites as the presumed starting PG, people are still talking about how evil Danny is. I mean, it's pretty much the reason AD isn't on our team right now.

eh the reason AD isn't on our team right now is because he wanted to play in LA with LeBron

Well, honestly the real reason is because the Rose Rule didn't allow us to make the trade mid-season during 18-19 - giving us two postseasons w/ AD. I do think that if Kyrie had committed - which also would have likely led to Horford committing - Ainge still would have pulled the trigger on the Brown/Smart for AD trade. When Kyrie and Horford left in FA, there was no way Danny could have gone through with it as a path to a Title became a lot more difficult.

If we were coming off of a championship w/AD, Kyrie, Tatum, Hayward, and Horford as our core, then I think it would have been difficult for AD to leave - even w/ Lebron waiting in LA. Not only would our future clearly be brighter, but he would also already have a ring.

Anyway, the past is the past and unfortunately the whole thing couldn't have gone worse for Cs fans. In hindsight, part of me wishes Danny did make the trade last offseason, though. At the very least, it would have kept LAL from winning the Title.

Re: Map Out Your Ideal, Quasi-Realistic Off-season
« Reply #119 on: October 14, 2020, 09:24:41 AM »

Offline NKY fan

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I am just not sure any deal involving Kemba is 'realistic'. A max player who had several options the previous offseason is seldomly moved within a year of signing that max contract. I remember Dwight Howard was traded pretty quickly after signing with the Hawks a few seasons ago (not quite a max). Griffin was sent to DET soon after he inked his 5-yr max, but I assume both sides knew what they were getting into. The Russell/Wiggins deal was also a mid-season trade, but that worked out for Russell as he is now able to play with his friend.

If we did send out Kemba, it couldn't be to the Knicks or Hawks or anything; we would have to send him to an favorable situation. Even in the IT deal where we sent him to the EC favorites as the presumed starting PG, people are still talking about how evil Danny is. I mean, it's pretty much the reason AD isn't on our team right now.

eh the reason AD isn't on our team right now is because he wanted to play in LA with LeBron

Well, honestly the real reason is because the Rose Rule didn't allow us to make the trade mid-season during 18-19 - giving us two postseasons w/ AD. I do think that if Kyrie had committed - which also would have likely led to Horford committing - Ainge still would have pulled the trigger on the Brown/Smart for AD trade. When Kyrie and Horford left in FA, there was no way Danny could have gone through with it as a path to a Title became a lot more difficult.

If we were coming off of a championship w/AD, Kyrie, Tatum, Hayward, and Horford as our core, then I think it would have been difficult for AD to leave - even w/ Lebron waiting in LA. Not only would our future clearly be brighter, but he would also already have a ring.

Anyway, the past is the past and unfortunately the whole thing couldn't have gone worse for Cs fans. In hindsight, part of me wishes Danny did make the trade last offseason, though. At the very least, it would have kept LAL from winning the Title.
Given that Butler, Davis and Kawhi were all traded in the last 2-3 years resulting in 2 titles and a finals appearance for their teams I am a little bit un easy that while we outdid all those teams with signing 3 all stars and trading for an all nba guard all star plus multiple very high picks and budding superstars we are still faraway from being real championship contenders.