Author Topic: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19  (Read 3685 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« on: February 15, 2009, 11:28:56 AM »

Offline vjcsmoke

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3173
  • Tommy Points: 182
Anyone else getting nervous that the Celtics haven't made any moves yet?  They clearly have some need to shore up their bench.  I think the second unit is a major weak spot this year.  Does anyone see the Celtics standing pat the next 5 days?  I think they need to make a move and I hope that Ainge is working the phones as we speak.  Thoughts on needs?  I think a backup center and backup pg are keys, preferably getting experienced guys in there.  I think that Jeff Foster and Marbury are two names that have been mentioned by some posters here.  But I don't know what Ainge is thinking.

Re: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2009, 12:14:06 PM »

Offline cornbreadsmart

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1706
  • Tommy Points: 106
i believe we really may end up with the team as is. pj is done. mourning done. i'm guessing passing on mutombo was'nt bad. i don't think he's performed for houston really.  i think probably a bit of a surprise for ainge that there are'nt more free agent possibilities there. definitely a surprise to me. there are a few scenarios here and none of them are panning out unfortunately. i think most would have thought the marbury situation would be in our favor right now.
  i'm sure danny could make a deal or two but for marginally better guys which maybe are'nt worth what it woul do to our chemistry. if it was a big enough talent upgrade great, but it looks like it just ain't there. if there was some trade we could do to unload tony allen i would'nt mind that. he's such a question mark. he seems the sensitive type. he can get down on himself easily. i think it's a big decision for doc that needs to be made very soon. does he start giving tony's minutes to gabe. maybe all gabe need is a load of minutes. we know he's a far superior shooter and we hope he's be better with decision making than tony cuz i just don't thinkj we'll ever know what tony will bring in that department from game to game. that's not a mystery we want on our hands in a critical game vs. cleveland or l.a. and an upset or down tony allen might not be a great element to the locker room. i'm not saying he'd be a cancer but just a downer.

Re: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2009, 12:19:31 PM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34023
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
The big date for the Celtics is after that when team might look to buy players out.

Re: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2009, 12:41:02 PM »

Offline moiso

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7642
  • Tommy Points: 441
Lets sign David Robinson to back up Perk!  Just kidding but I bet he could play that role.  He looked good last night.

Re: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2009, 11:06:35 PM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
The big date for the Celtics is after that when team might look to buy players out.

Yup, March 1 should be the date circled on everyone's calendar, not this Thursday.  We may not know who wants to sign with the C's by then, but at least we will know who will be available.

Re: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2009, 11:14:15 PM »

Offline Chief

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21217
  • Tommy Points: 2450
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
Larry Bird

Re: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2009, 08:40:35 AM »

Offline dmopower

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 557
  • Tommy Points: 46
Brad miller
Is he still on the block, and would he fit in here.
I havent done any numbers, but have thought that he might fill our need for a back up center.
blind optimist or GENIUS

Re: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 09:17:37 AM »

Offline Edgar

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24646
  • Tommy Points: 445
  • No contaban con mi astucia !!!


on darkness feeeding.
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2009, 09:23:17 AM »

Offline cornbreadsmart

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1706
  • Tommy Points: 106
wow.those realgm deals are awful. glen davis  and p.o. for ratliff and donyell marshall.  marshall "can definitely score and be a terrific presence." WHA?

Re: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 09:26:23 AM »

Offline cornbreadsmart

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1706
  • Tommy Points: 106
pruitt and scal for joe smith? i would'nt be crazy about losing pruitt.tony allen for reddick. eh.. i hope we don't end up using tony but i'm not sure i'd wanna give him to orlando. reddick is a great shooter but would he actually MAKE shots?

Re: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 09:28:26 AM »

Offline Edgar

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24646
  • Tommy Points: 445
  • No contaban con mi astucia !!!


on darkness feeeding.
in nightmares breeding.

 ;D
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2009, 10:15:04 AM »

Offline Jon

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6499
  • Tommy Points: 385
We better hope there's some buy outs coming back or that Sam Cassell starts pulling a Benjamin Button.  I just don't see anything happening in terms of a deal.  We don't really have much worth offering.  Then again, neither did the Lakers and they still got Pau Gasol, so who knows?  Maybe Chris Wallace still feels badly about the whole Vin Baker fiasco and wants to make it up to Boston. 

Re: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2009, 10:57:35 AM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
pruitt and scal for joe smith? i would'nt be crazy about losing pruitt.tony allen for reddick. eh.. i hope we don't end up using tony but i'm not sure i'd wanna give him to orlando. reddick is a great shooter but would he actually MAKE shots?

Pruitt's going to be riding the pine in the playoffs, and Smith would immediately be our 6th man, and a game finishing big man.  You make that trade every time. 

As for Redick, I thought the same thing about him earlier in the season, but he has made the leap this year.  He has become a major part of Orlando's rotation, not just because of his shooting, but because he understands how to play the game. 

Unfortunately, I don't see either team interested in these deals (especially not Orlando).

Re: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2009, 11:37:24 AM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2633
  • Tommy Points: 445
I'd love to think we're going to

1. Do a two for one trade ( Pruitt / TA) for some decent back up small forward ), which would allow us to....cut Sam Cassell and...

2. Sign PJ Brown for the run ( I'm still beleiving he's coming back). How can you pass on Mutumbo who wanted to come here unless you've got PJ in pocket? And...

3. Sign a released Stephon Marbury.


Re: Trade deadline looming - Feb 19
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2009, 11:52:44 AM »

Offline paintitgreen

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1104
  • Tommy Points: 154
I just don't see anything happening in terms of a deal.  We don't really have much worth offering.  Then again, neither did the Lakers and they still got Pau Gasol, so who knows?  
The Lakers had a ton to offer for Gasol - it just turns out they didn't have to use most of it. The big expiring deal of Brown was enormous, which is why it didn't cost much more - just late first rounders and a mid-first round rookie point guard. You would think that they'd have to include Bynum or at least Farmar to get a guy like Gasol, but Pau was undervalued by Wallace, and they really just wanted the big cash savings. If we had an $8-10 million expiring deal on the roster, we'd be right in the thick of all the trade talk. Not having the expiring money is really the biggest factor.

Since we don't have the expirings, we would have to make a deal in which we take on a couple mil extra over what we're giving out. To do that, we would have to give up a lot of young guys to make the salaries add up. Since most of the guys are on 2+ year deals, we probably have to take on a guy who's overpaid for at least 3 more years. This means being willing to give up at least one of Davis and Powe (not all that desirable since they both have low salaries that expire this year, so keeping them would cost a team a good deal of money), plus be willing to part with Pruitt, O'Bryant, Allen, Scalabrine and probably even Walker and Giddens as salary filler/pieces. We don't have the expiring contracts teams want with the luxury tax level declining next year.  

Bottom line to me is we have 15 guys on the roster, but only about 8 roles filled out of a needed, in my mind, 12 roles (starters plus 2 reserve shooters, 1 reserve point guard, 2 reserve wing defenders, 1 reserve center, 1 other reserve inside player). Last year, we had House and Posey for the 1st 2, Cassell filled the 3rd, Posey and TA filled the 4th and 5th, PJ and Powe filled the last two. Right now, we have 1 shooter (House), 1 wing defender (Allen) and 1 extra inside player (Scalabrine, Powe or Davis can do that, but none fill the center role - playing Davis and Powe together is killing us). The way this team is built, more than anything else, we need another guy who can shoot from the outside while playing passable perimeter defense, and a real center. Since only Allen, House and 1 of the 3 power forwards we have are necessary, I'm at the point where I would part with any other asset or combination of assets to fill those roles.

As for the deals mentioned, Redick would fill a need by adding another shooter, but since he can't play any defense, we are not giving up Allen to get him unless Walker and/or Giddens looks to be ready to step in and play 8-10 minutes a night of championship-caliber playoff defense - I just don't see that happening. Not to mention, Orlando has a more pressing need at the point, so it's unlikely they'll use Redick to get a reserve wing defender who doesn't play the point or fit their team strategy of bombs-away.

I like Joe Smith a lot, and would absolutely give up Pruitt for him, but giving up Scalabrine, who sadly looks like he might actually be needed for interior defense, might cause too many problems IF we don't make another move to bring in a center. As for the Ratliff thing, if I thought he actually would hold up, I would be okay with giving up Davis and O'Bryant to get him, and it would make Scal absolutely expendable. We've used up a bunch of roster spots on guys in the hopes that we'll still have a team in three years' time - I just don't see the point. O'Bryant and Davis are not going to be stars in the league - losing them is not going to haunt us for years to come. Not making the moves to get another championship now might very well haunt us for years. Same with Pruitt, Allen, Powe, and pretty much every young guy except Rondo. A bench of House, Cassell, Allen, Powe, Smith, Marshall and Ratliff, plus Giddens and Walker, would give us a much better bench without any bad salary implications. We'd still be missing a shooter - I don't think Marshall will actually give us many minutes, his shooting numbers were in serious decline until this season when he jumped to 50% on 3s, but it's hard to say how seriously to take any numbers this year since he's only played 80 minutes - and a backup point, but the deals would also give us the roster space to add Marbury if he does get bought out which could fill both roles. And since we just had Cassell and House at point last year, that role, particularly with Rondo's further emergence and likely increased playoff minutes, is not the highest priority. 

Side note: while I'd do those two deals, I don't really see why the other teams would. Smith is expiring, I don't see why they would want to add on a lesser player who is not young and due to make $3.4 million next year. Plus, Scalabrine, because he might actually be the guy on our bench who would enable us to go "small" on certain occasions since he can spread the floor at least a bit plus he can play interior defense, is worth more to us than to the Thunder. His salary would be necessary to make the deal work, but is it worth for the Thunder to pay $4 million, or even, with the Celtics throwing in 3, $1 million for the rights to Gabe Pruitt? Maybe it could work if we gave the cash and OKC bought out the remaining two years on Scal's contract (probably about $1.4 mil left this year and $3.4 for next year) for $3 mil, with a promise that we'd make up the $1.8 or so and thensome by signing Scal for the next two seasons. But would Scal give up his Bird rights to get a bit more money and help us out? (Given that he'll end up with about $6 million more than he could've hoped for on the life of his contract, I feel like he owes it to us.) It's doubtful, but to me, it's the only way the deal makes any sense for Oklahoma City. As for the Ratliff deal, intradivision trading is rare and always difficult to work. Plus, why would Philly bring in a young guy who likely won't help them much this year since he doesn't play the run and gun style that suits them best, and they could get him in the offseason if they decided they want a backup for Brand, to whom they're committed for 4 more years?  

All that said, our championship window will keep closing and in my mind, we've got to go for 2 more over the next 2 seasons because there's no telling how well we'll be able to deal with the void created when Allen, KG and Pierce finish up. I'm not sure these trades would actually work in practice, but I think it identifies good targets for the Cs while highlighting how limited the Celtics' options are because they don't have those trade assets right now.

Finally - why would PJ come back? He toiled in the league for a long time and had a very good career. He was content to be retired, but really wanted that elusive ring. He got to end his career by being a key contributor on a championship team. Why would he risk changing that ending when he already got more than he ever expected? PJ Brown is NOT coming back.
Go Celtics.