Rondo and Celtics now 2-0 on the PG Road Trip From Hell.

[the_Bird]

One thing that is really cool to see is that Rondo seems to get up for competition.  He seems to always have his best games against top point guards, as if he is trying to prove something and is more inconsistent against normal point guards.  This is different than playing down to competition, though.

(I could be wrong about him having his best games against good PGs, I'm going just from memory.  If someone else has numbers to back this up or refute it, I'd be interested)

If I have time this weekend, I want to sit down and do a head-to-head comparison of Rondo versus the other elite players he's been matched up with.  My memory might be cloudy, but I can't recall any games this year in which Rondo's been outplayed by any of the "elite" guys.  Seems like whenever there's a big matchup, Rondo's coming out on top.

[KCattheStripe]

Rondo's weaknesses are too obvious compared with the true great players in the league.

Not really, arguably the best player in the league isnt a great jumpshooter either

Dwight Howard doesn't really have post moves yet. DWade isn't a great 3 point shooter. KG doesn't play in the post. Neither does Dirk. Nash can't play defense. Kobe is a Laker. All great players have their faults.

[cordobes]

Rondo's weaknesses are too obvious compared with the true great players in the league.

Not really, arguably the best player in the league isnt a great jumpshooter either

Are you serious?

James took 310 jump-shots so far, hitting 40.5% of them. Most of his jump-shots were contested or heavily contested. He also has 70 triples converted.

Rondo took around 100 jump-shots, almost every one of them wide open, making 31% of them. He hit 10 treys so far.

What's exactly the comparison? Absolutely different levels, saying that "none of them is a great jump-shooter" is meaningless at best or misleading at worse. The difference between LBJ and Rondo as jump-shooters is bigger than the difference between LBJ and Ray Allen or any other player in the league.

The idea that Rondo isn't really a terrible - not passable, not sub-par, not bleh, not mediocre - jump-shooter for his position is getting old. I think it's possible to appreciate Rondo's game - I certainly do - without trying to sugarcoat his terrible deficiencies. His jumper is historically bad for a NBA guard - the fact that people use arguments like "yeah, but Ben Wallace is even worse" proves that.

[TrueGreen]

Whilst i loved your post, Tp for it, and have a soft spot for Rondo, he has had some great stretches before that have been followed by disastrous ones.

He has been that Jeckyl/Hyde type player all his career. Its common for players in this league to struggle when their confidence is down, but the true great ones, like Jason Kidd and Chris Paul, never lose confidence.

Rondo has to conquer the mental aspect of the game before he can be categorised as a top 5 point in this league.  Winning and starring on our championship last season has had great benefits, but its almost like it will take another one this year or next for Rondo to truly believe.

The big 3 have always had that confidence - i guess thats why they're the big 3.  This year, i expected to see "it" from Perk and Rondo too.  I definately see it in Perk (even though his game does have limitations), but only get glimpses from Rajon.

Here's hoping this trip helps him accomplish it.

I don't think Rondo has a confidence problem. He may even be over confident. I think the parts of the game that Rondo is good at make him feel he can do anything in those areas. I think this causes some of his over passing or some of his missed shots at the rim. I don't know if you saw the clip of Doc getting all over Rondo for making a bad pass at a practice. And Rondo didn't back down and went right back at Doc. KG had to step in a move Rondo away. I'd almost bet that later on KG told Rondo that Doc was right. Doc often says we forget that Rondo is only in his 3rd year (you could subtract his first year) and how young he is. Rondo, as scaring as it might be, is not as good as he will be. I don't think it's a confidence problem with him, I think he's on the learning curve and I think he will get there sooner than later.

[BballTim]

Every time this kind of posts start being made about Rondo, he enters a bad stretch of games. It's a variation of the "SI cover jinx" - he's just regressing to the mean.

I agree with Slugger: Rondo is still too wildly inconsistent and unreliable to be put on the top-tier class of PGs in the league. And if he was playing for a team where he was the best player or the 2nd best player, like many other top PGs are, I doubt people would see him as a future perennial AS.

Rondo has not been "wildy" inconsistent, he really hasnt been anymore inconsistent then most players in the league...And I think his numbers would be alot better on a bad team as a 1-3 option..not vice versa

Of course he has been inconsistent, there were some series of games where he was a tremendous liability on the floor. Heck, we had plenty of "Why is Rondo regressing?" threads here.

  He has been somewhat inconsistent but not to the extent people claim. He played poorly over a stretch of games early in the season (which may or may not have been injury related) but since then hasn't been bad. I think that a lot of the time when the team struggles it shows up more in his stats but I think that it's often the case that he's seen as the cause of the problems instead of a symptom of the problems.

  I'm not saying that he never shoots poorly. I'm not saying that he's never overly reluctant to shoot. But he's had plenty of good games and the team's had plenty of good offensive games where he either hasn't shot well or shot much. I think there have been enough of those games to call into question the theory that such play leads to offensive woes for the team.

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

Yawn...Rondo is already a hell of a basketball player without a jumpshot, he has obvious weaknesses and obvious strengths, just like every other player in the league

Rondo's weaknesses are too obvious compared with the true great players in the league.

Is that why he often dominates the truly great players at his position when he faces them?  Rondo's an elite point guard right now--regardless of the fact that most of the league and most NBA fans know nothing about it. 

mavs tried this all last night, how did that work out?

Think j-kidd is still tasting those 2 18 footers rondo nailed in his face in crunch time?

What does the fact that almost every team does it tells you? That NBA coaches are completely dumb or that it pays off?

All it tells you, really, is that in terms of picking your poison, teams would rather make Rondo take jumpers than give open, uncontested looks to the Big 3. 

Cordobes, you earlier called Rondo 'wildly inconsistent.'  Do you care to back that up with any evidence?  I mean, it's pretty well-established that the Cs go as Rondo goes.  If we can accept that as a truism, then at 44-11, Rondo has played 4 good games for every bad one.  That doesn't sound 'wildly inconsistent' to me. 

[nickagneta]

Just a bit more Rondo love. With last night's triple double Rondo is tied for third in total triple doubles for the season this year with Kobe Bryant at 2 and only LeBron James at 3 and Chris Paul at 5 are ahead of him. Extremely few players in the league have the ability to throw up a triple double and the fact that Rondo is one of them and can put up multiple triple doubles in one season says all I need to know about just how great an all around player he will eventually be.

As for the inconsistent label, that is grossly over-exaggerated. Since the month of December began Rondo has played in 37 games.

• He has scored in double figures in 22 of those games even though he is easily this team's fourth scoring option.
• He has registered less than 6 assists in only 6 of those games
  
• He has been in double digits in assists in 16 of those games
• He has recorded 7 double-doubles and 2 triple doubles in those games.
• He has recorded 14 games of 10 or more points, 7 or more assists and 5 or more rebounds in those games.
• He has a FG% of 50% in those games.
• He has averaged 12.1 PPG, 9.2 APG, 6 RPG, and 1.9 SPG in those 37 games

37 games is nearly half a season and over the last half season Rondo might just be one of the most consistent PGs in the league. Please, besides CP3 point out one, just one, PG that can claim to have better stats than that all while quarterbacking a team that has gone 28-9 in that time span.

His jump shooting is widely inconsistent, but is overall game is rock solid steady and growing and getting better with every game he plays. This team could afford to lose any of the other starters for a period of time and still put up wins. But not Rondo. If he goes down, this team will suffer worse than that 7 losses in 9 games stretch.

[Scalablob990]

Idc what his stats are or if he has a triple double, when he shoots it makes me nervous as hell. He's got to get better with those jump shots.

[cordobes]

  I'm not saying that he never shoots poorly. I'm not saying that he's never overly reluctant to shoot. But he's had plenty of good games and the team's had plenty of good offensive games where he either hasn't shot well or shot much. I think there have been enough of those games to call into question the theory that such play leads to offensive woes for the team.

  People go to extremes to "defend" the home players. Of course Rondo's deficiencies affect the team offensive production overall. The fact that Rondo can have excellent games and the team can win games and a NBA championship in spite of Rondo flaws doesn't make them less serious or diminishes their impact. It just shows how good is Rondo on other aspects of the game, how good are his teammates and how good is Doc as a coach. Just imagine how good would this team be if Rondo could hit open-shots and opponents were forced to defend him straight up.

This "we won a lot of games so whoever mentions flaws on the players/team is wrong" logic is truly amusing.

All it tells you, really, is that in terms of picking your poison, teams would rather make Rondo take jumpers than give open, uncontested looks to the Big 3.

Are you serious? Why would the teams give open, uncontested looks to the Big 3? Because their other option would be to double Rondo's jump-shots? That's truly bizarre, I don't know what to say. Why wouldn't they just not sag off of Rondo so much and keep a man guarding him when he's off-the-ball? I mean, like it happens with almost every NBA guard...

In fact, as has been repeatedly said, Rondo's weakness affects more the game of his teammates (allowing early doubles and a more clogged paint) than his own. I think people often forget that.

Cordobes, you earlier called Rondo 'wildly inconsistent.'  Do you care to back that up with any evidence?  I mean, it's pretty well-established that the Cs go as Rondo goes.  If we can accept that as a truism, then at 44-11, Rondo has played 4 good games for every bad one.  That doesn't sound 'wildly inconsistent' to me. 

Sure, but what kind of evidence would be convincing enough from your perspective? For some reason, I tend to believe that you just won't allow yourself to be convinced. I don't buy those truisms - I'm pretty sure this team has won plenty of games where Rondo was mediocre. 

[BballTim]

  I'm not saying that he never shoots poorly. I'm not saying that he's never overly reluctant to shoot. But he's had plenty of good games and the team's had plenty of good offensive games where he either hasn't shot well or shot much. I think there have been enough of those games to call into question the theory that such play leads to offensive woes for the team.

  People go to extremes to "defend" the home players. Of course Rondo's deficiencies affect the team offensive production overall. The fact that Rondo can have excellent games and the team can win games and a NBA championship in spite of Rondo flaws doesn't make them less serious or diminishes their impact. It just shows how good is Rondo on other aspects of the game, how good are his teammates and how good is Doc as a coach. Just imagine how good would this team be if Rondo could hit open-shots and opponents were forced to defend him straight up.

This "we won a lot of games so whoever mentions flaws on the players/team is wrong" logic is truly amusing.

  This "I think I'll summarize an argument with a ridiculous statement that vaguely resembles what they said" logic isn't as amusing, although you seem to be successfully entertaining yourself with it. To summarize:

  I didn't say that Rondo's deficiencies don't affect the team offensive production overall.

  I didn't say that the fact that Rondo can have excellent games and the team can win games and a NBA championship in spite of Rondo flaws makes them less serious or diminishes their impact.

  I didn't say that we won a lot of games so whoever mentions flaws on the players/team is wrong.

   

[Jaycelt]

Are you serious? Why would the teams give open, uncontested looks to the Big 3? Because their other option would be to double Rondo's jump-shots? That's truly bizarre, I don't know what to say. Why wouldn't they just not sag off of Rondo so much and keep a man guarding him when he's off-the-ball? I mean, like it happens with almost every NBA guard...

In fact, as has been repeatedly said, Rondo's weakness affects more the game of his teammates (allowing early doubles and a more clogged paint) than his own. I think people often forget that.

These are pretty much my thoughts as well. I love Rondo's energy. I love that he seems to be able to get to the basket at will. I love when he gets his nose dirty fighting much larger players for rebounds. I love his quick hands and his knack for steals (although I wish he would concentrate on keeping his man in front of him). Those are all great things that should be praised.  
But it seems there are many people who totally overlook how the fact that other teams don't defend him affects his teammates.  It most certainly does. None of these things are going to show up in a box score against Rondo. Shot clock violations, three second calls, desperation shots, turnovers caused by instant double teams.
In Rondo's case his teammates happen to include three hall of fame players who can many times make something out of nothing.
There is a reason Jackson has Kobe guard Rondo and it's not good.  It's so Kobe can wander, double team, & play passing lanes.  You can not deny that other teams have picked up on this and have used it with moderate success.

As far as this road trip goes he was very, very good against Dallas but I don't know how in the world anyone could have
watched the game he played against the Hornets and came away thinking he had anything close to resembling a good game.
He was exasperating. I can not recall ever being so frustrated by the play of one player.  He had Doc screaming at him from the bench repeatedly. I mean really, honestly, how do you give him any credit for that win?

[crownsy]

Sure, but what kind of evidence would be convincing enough from your perspective? For some reason, I tend to believe that you just won't allow yourself to be convinced. I don't buy those truisms - I'm pretty sure this team has won plenty of games where Rondo was mediocre. 

Probley the same kind of evidance that would convince you you might not be 100% right about your eval of rondo either, that is to say, None.

[crownsy]

Are you serious? Why would the teams give open, uncontested looks to the Big 3? Because their other option would be to double Rondo's jump-shots? That's truly bizarre, I don't know what to say. Why wouldn't they just not sag off of Rondo so much and keep a man guarding him when he's off-the-ball? I mean, like it happens with almost every NBA guard...

In fact, as has been repeatedly said, Rondo's weakness affects more the game of his teammates (allowing early doubles and a more clogged paint) than his own. I think people often forget that.

These are pretty much my thoughts as well. I love Rondo's energy. I love that he seems to be able to get to the basket at will. I love when he gets his nose dirty fighting much larger players for rebounds. I love his quick hands and his knack for steals (although I wish he would concentrate on keeping his man in front of him). Those are all great things that should be praised.  
But it seems there are many people who totally overlook how the fact that other teams don't defend him affects his teammates.  It most certainly does. None of these things are going to show up in a box score against Rondo. Shot clock violations, three second calls, desperation shots, turnovers caused by instant double teams.
In Rondo's case his teammates happen to include three hall of fame players who can many times make something out of nothing.
There is a reason Jackson has Kobe guard Rondo and it's not good.  It's so Kobe can wander, double team, & play passing lanes.  You can not deny that other teams have picked up on this and have used it with moderate success.

As far as this road trip goes he was very, very good against Dallas but I don't know how in the world anyone could have
watched the game he played against the Hornets and came away thinking he had anything close to resembling a good game.
He was exasperating. I can not recall ever being so frustrated by the play of one player.  He had Doc screaming at him from the bench repeatedly. I mean really, honestly, how do you give him any credit for that win?

I still love how people slobber all over phil like that was his idea, that move to have your best defender cheat off rondo started about 20 games into the 2007-2008 season.

[Toine43]

The funny thing is, after reading all of the back-and-forths in this thread, I still do not know what Cordobes' point is. So...Rondo's a very bad jumpshooter. Is that a negative for the team? Yes. Does it make life harder for Rondo's teammates? Yes. Would the Celtics be better if Rondo could shoot better? Yes.

Cordobes, I sense that your opinion of Rondo is lower than most others'. But you haven't told me anything I don't know about the kid and the team, so I don't even know why your opinion is what it is. That seems to be what is so frustrating to everyone who disagrees with you.

[cordobes]

The funny thing is, after reading all of the back-and-forths in this thread, I still do not know what Cordobes' point is. So...Rondo's a very bad jumpshooter. Is that a negative for the team? Yes. Does it make life harder for Rondo's teammates? Yes. Would the Celtics be better if Rondo could shoot better? Yes.

Cordobes, I sense that your opinion of Rondo is lower than most others'. But you haven't told me anything I don't know about the kid and the team, so I don't even know why your opinion is what it is. That seems to be what is so frustrating to everyone who disagrees with you.

I'm sorry, but you disagree with me about what? To me, it seems you agree with everything I said.

It's truly fantastic that you accuse me because you can't disagree with anything I said.