A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)

[Moranis]

Jon will end up on the throne.  This has always been a story about him.  The only way he wouldn't have ended up on the throne would have been if he had to die to kill the Night King (and you know save humanity).  Even with as crappy as the last two seasons have been, I just can't believe they would get that wrong and frankly if Jon wasn't going to end up on the throne there would have been no reason for the super Mad Queen turn by Dany.

[liam]

My prediction for the final episode:

Jon is going to demand the iron throne formally as the true heir knowing dany can’t rule. Dany is going to tell him either he is a usurper or he is who he says he is and Drogon will burn him. If he walks out the throne is his. If he doesn’t he’s a usurper and dies like he deserves.

He either walks out OR what I like even better is Drogon refuses the dracarys order and won’t burn Jon. Final betrayal of dany by her child.

I am refusing to google or reddit any GoT this week in fear of leaks so please don’t respond if you actually know what happens!

Bran Wargs into Drogon and sides with Jon....

[PhoSita]

Has anybody else read the spoilers on the Free Folk subreddit?

I have and won't go into any detail, obviously.  But the spoilers over there apparently turned out to be pretty close to spot on for Episode 5, with some misinterpretations of specific details.


They've got the broad strokes of Episode 6 up.  I don't mind having things spoiled for myself (I care about how the show gets to the main plot points more than what those plot points are) so I read them.  I am interested to see if they end up being true.

[GreenShooter]

Anyone else worried that Jon Snow is not in the episode 6 trailer?

That would be the most Season 8 thing ever.  No mention of Jon in the finale, other than a brief "I heard Jon plans to live out his days beyond the wall with his direwolf" from Tyrion.

I'm pretty sure all the characters were released. It's going to be the usual suspects, plus everyone from Winterfell as well as Bronn and Gendry.
I now am convinced I will hate the ending. So disappointing. Why couldn't it be as good as Breaking Bad!?

[fairweatherfan]

Jon will end up on the throne.  This has always been a story about him.  The only way he wouldn't have ended up on the throne would have been if he had to die to kill the Night King (and you know save humanity).  Even with as crappy as the last two seasons have been, I just can't believe they would get that wrong and frankly if Jon wasn't going to end up on the throne there would have been no reason for the super Mad Queen turn by Dany.

A story not following a personal interpretation of how it ought to end doesn't mean the story got it "wrong", if anything it means the interpreter did. The broader idea is probably accurate, but the story can just as easily be about Jon if he sacrifices himself to kill a tyrannical Dany, or spurns the throne to reform the Nights' Watch (parallels to Aemon), or reveals he's a secret Child of the Forest and runs away. It's all good as long as he's central to the overall story we see. He doesn't have to rule happily ever after or even be around for the "ever after".

[Moranis]

Jon will end up on the throne.  This has always been a story about him.  The only way he wouldn't have ended up on the throne would have been if he had to die to kill the Night King (and you know save humanity).  Even with as crappy as the last two seasons have been, I just can't believe they would get that wrong and frankly if Jon wasn't going to end up on the throne there would have been no reason for the super Mad Queen turn by Dany.

A story not following a personal interpretation of how it ought to end doesn't mean the story got it "wrong", if anything it means the interpreter did. The broader idea is probably accurate, but the story can just as easily be about Jon if he sacrifices himself to kill a tyrannical Dany, or spurns the throne to reform the Nights' Watch (parallels to Aemon), or reveals he's a secret Child of the Forest and runs away. It's all good as long as he's central to the overall story we see. He doesn't have to rule happily ever after or even be around for the "ever after".

the problem with this is, I have no faith at all that the nitwits writing the show will actually get anything right, as they have clearly blown this season on so many levels.  Terrible writing all around, I expect that to continue into the finals.

[Silky]

Jon will end up on the throne.  This has always been a story about him.  The only way he wouldn't have ended up on the throne would have been if he had to die to kill the Night King (and you know save humanity).  Even with as crappy as the last two seasons have been, I just can't believe they would get that wrong and frankly if Jon wasn't going to end up on the throne there would have been no reason for the super Mad Queen turn by Dany.

A story not following a personal interpretation of how it ought to end doesn't mean the story got it "wrong", if anything it means the interpreter did. The broader idea is probably accurate, but the story can just as easily be about Jon if he sacrifices himself to kill a tyrannical Dany, or spurns the throne to reform the Nights' Watch (parallels to Aemon), or reveals he's a secret Child of the Forest and runs away. It's all good as long as he's central to the overall story we see. He doesn't have to rule happily ever after or even be around for the "ever after".

the problem with this is, I have no faith at all that the nitwits writing the show will actually get anything right, as they have clearly blown this season on so many levels.  Terrible writing all around, I expect that to continue into the finals.

Saw a video last night of a collection of clups from interviews with the actors hating on the final season....

[Celtics4ever]

I have read the books and watched the show and I never thought it was going to be Dany in the end.   I have posted here she is a read herring as well as on the Reddit boards.  A lot of my friends like her and supported her for her looks.  But I never thought she would end up the winner and I knew it being Martin, that a happy ending was not happening.    He loved the Scourging of the Shire in LOTR.  She is the Saruman of his scourging of the Shire, and it just happened.  Now his genius horny hobbit and a watered down Aragorn have to stop her.   BTW, I  know Aragorn was not there for the end of the LOTR shire stuff but could not resist a pun.

the problem with this is, I have no faith at all that the nitwits writing the show will actually get anything right,

They have the story end from Martin, so it is likely that they will get the ending right.   The writing in general has been poor since they passed up Martin.  But the broad details they have.   I think they are bored and their attention to detail is gone as they focus on something even bigger and will make them richer, the Star Wars films they are working on.

[Csfan1984]

This is the only TV series I have gone into feeling less and less motivated to watch each episode in a final season. The hype died with the long wait and then after each episode the disappointment builds. They should have let another group take over the series after year 5.

[fairweatherfan]

Jon will end up on the throne.  This has always been a story about him.  The only way he wouldn't have ended up on the throne would have been if he had to die to kill the Night King (and you know save humanity).  Even with as crappy as the last two seasons have been, I just can't believe they would get that wrong and frankly if Jon wasn't going to end up on the throne there would have been no reason for the super Mad Queen turn by Dany.

A story not following a personal interpretation of how it ought to end doesn't mean the story got it "wrong", if anything it means the interpreter did. The broader idea is probably accurate, but the story can just as easily be about Jon if he sacrifices himself to kill a tyrannical Dany, or spurns the throne to reform the Nights' Watch (parallels to Aemon), or reveals he's a secret Child of the Forest and runs away. It's all good as long as he's central to the overall story we see. He doesn't have to rule happily ever after or even be around for the "ever after".

the problem with this is, I have no faith at all that the nitwits writing the show will actually get anything right, as they have clearly blown this season on so many levels.  Terrible writing all around, I expect that to continue into the finals.

I'm with you on execution and writing probably being awful, that's more likely than not at this point. I just disagree that any plot resolution where Jon isn't the King is "getting it wrong".

This is the only TV series I have gone into feeling less and less motivated to watch each episode in a final season. The hype died with the long wait and then after each episode the disappointment builds. They should have let another group take over the series after year 5.

I've decided the show is like the movie Mandy where it starts off relatively grounded but gets steadily less lucid and more and more rapidfire luridly insane as it goes. From that perspective it's going great. All we need is a Twin Peaks style capper where the end celebration scene gets overlaid by a ghostly Ned head saying "We live in a dream..."

[fairweatherfan]

Here's the ending that would redeem it all for me:

Arya is returning to the city to kill Dany when she sees a mysterious Braavosi boat docking on the beach. Sneaking over to it, she watches Iron Bank representatives deliver a large crate to Jon Snow. She rushes down to greet him and team up against Dany but he suddenly pulls off his face and reveals himself to be Jaqen the Faceless Man, who explains that Jon was never resurrected, merely replaced while his dead body was hidden by sliding it under a dumpster. The Dragon Queen feeds the Many-faced God, and Arya had angered him by killing his avatar and destroying his army. They fight, and Arya is thrown into the crate, breaking it and revealing it's full of dragon eggs. Dany steps into view. "Valar Morghulis" she says as Jaqen runs Arya through.

The end scene is Sam in the Citadel writing the history of how House Targaryen wiped out the usurper scum and returned to their rightful glory with fire and blood. Outside, a flock of young dragons fly by.

Fingers crossed!

[PhoSita]

Here's the ending that would redeem it all for me:

Arya is returning to the city to kill Dany when she sees a mysterious Braavosi boat docking on the beach. Sneaking over to it, she watches Iron Bank representatives deliver a large crate to Jon Snow. She rushes down to greet him and team up against Dany but he suddenly pulls off his face and reveals himself to be Jaqen the Faceless Man, who explains that Jon was never resurrected, merely replaced while his dead body was hidden by sliding it under a dumpster. The Dragon Queen feeds the Many-faced God, and Arya had angered him by killing his avatar and destroying his army. They fight, and Arya is thrown into the crate, breaking it and revealing it's full of dragon eggs. Dany steps into view. "Valar Morghulis" she says as Jaqen runs Arya through.

The end scene is Sam in the Citadel writing the history of how House Targaryen wiped out the usurper scum and returned to their rightful glory with fire and blood. Outside, a flock of young dragons fly by.

Fingers crossed!

Now that's a twist.

[PhoSita]

the problem with this is, I have no faith at all that the nitwits writing the show will actually get anything right,

They have the story end from Martin, so it is likely that they will get the ending right.   

They will correctly hit the major plot points that Martin provided to them.

That's not the same thing as arriving at those plot points by way of a narrative that is satisfying and coherent or that competently resolves the arcs of the main characters.

Jon will end up on the throne.  This has always been a story about him.  The only way he wouldn't have ended up on the throne would have been if he had to die to kill the Night King (and you know save humanity).  Even with as crappy as the last two seasons have been, I just can't believe they would get that wrong and frankly if Jon wasn't going to end up on the throne there would have been no reason for the super Mad Queen turn by Dany.

In what way?


If Game of Thrones has always been about anything, it's been about how the drive of certain people to gain and maintain power, be those people "good" or "bad," is inherently in conflict with the peace and happiness of people in general, and the impotence of "principled" or "moral" people to do much of anything to stop the chaos that results from the ruthless climbers' endless fighting for pole position.


In other words, "We can't have nice things."

Jon does have something that looks like a standard hero's journey, but so does Danaerys.  To me it's fairly obvious that they are meant to be two sides of the same coin in this story, and that the ways in which they are similar and the ways in which they are completely different serve to advance that main theme. 

It makes complete sense that Danaerys's drive for power would end up destroying the world instead of making it better, and that Jon's commitment to being "good" instead of seeking power for himself will prevent him from achieving happiness.  Maybe he will kill Danaerys and prevent a reign of terror, but it wouldn't make sense for him to become the "good wise king who rules for fifty years" at the end of it.


I expect that the story will end on a hopeful note, but I don't expect it to seem like things will all be good and well for our main characters for the rest of time, or that the world is in a much better position than it was at the beginning.  Except for the White Walkers having been defeated, I suppose.

I'm still not sure how the White Walkers or the Night King were supposed to fit into all of this.  Maybe the books will make that clearer.

[GreenShooter]

Jon will not end up on the throne. He will kill Dany and refuse the "throne", unless Drogon melts it down, in which case there will not be one. He will go north and live with the "free folk" with Tormund and Ghost.
Somehow Bran will end up ruling Westeros. He did some sneaky sh!t that we'll finally get to find out in the finale.
This will be an effed up ending. I will watch it though, as I did the Sopranos. Some of you know how bizarre that ending was.

[fairweatherfan]

If Game of Thrones has always been about anything, it's been about how the drive of certain people to gain and maintain power, be those people "good" or "bad," is inherently in conflict with the peace and happiness of people in general, and the impotence of "principled" or "moral" people to do much of anything to stop the chaos that results from the ruthless climbers' endless fighting for pole position.


In other words, "We can't have nice things."

Jon does have something that looks like a standard hero's journey, but so does Danaerys.  To me it's fairly obvious that they are meant to be two sides of the same coin in this story, and that the ways in which they are similar and the ways in which they are completely different serve to advance that main theme. 

It makes complete sense that Danaerys's drive for power would end up destroying the world instead of making it better, and that Jon's commitment to being "good" instead of seeking power for himself will prevent him from achieving happiness.  Maybe he will kill Danaerys and prevent a reign of terror, but it wouldn't make sense for him to become the "good wise king who rules for fifty years" at the end of it.


I expect that the story will end on a hopeful note, but I don't expect it to seem like things will all be good and well for our main characters for the rest of time, or that the world is in a much better position than it was at the beginning.  Except for the White Walkers having been defeated, I suppose.

I'm still not sure how the White Walkers or the Night King were supposed to fit into all of this.  Maybe the books will make that clearer.

Yeah a lot of the interesting themes of the early seasons is contrasting different moralities and how they interact with power. The Starks are noble dopes who inspire fierce loyalty but are easily exploited by more ruthless actors and frequently make self-destructive decisions out of misguided honor.  Dany also inspires loyalty and even worship, first through extraordinary feats and a strong moral compass on slavery but after she gets burned a couple times by her own Stark-like choices her anger and thirst for power leads her to steadily veer toward brutality as a shortcut, and when pressed she becomes a monster. 

It really seems like the style most favored is closest to the Lannisters' - pragmatic, ruthless when necessary, keeping up appearances and currying favor when not. Margaery and Olenna would've been a huge help to their rule because they were cut from the same cloth and usually savvier about it. Tyrion being in charge would make the most sense from this angle even though his IQ's been dropping like 10 pts a season, but there's no real path to get him there so he'll probably play a part in engineering it.

Whatever the result is I agree it will be presented as incremental progress at most, not a sunshine and flowers happily ever after ending.


You might like this article BTW - it's about how the show got bad because after it outpaced the book it shifted from Martin's sociological focus to Hollywood's focus on individual characters and cinematic moments.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-real-reason-fans-hate-the-last-season-of-game-of-thrones/