All Things Philadelphia 76ers (merged Sixers threads)

[Phantom255x]

Would you rather be the Celtics or the 76ers right now? haha

That is an interesting question because right now the Sixers have the 2 best players on either team (Embiid and Butler) and might have the best rookie contract player (Simmons), but after that are very thin, while Boston is much deeper and has a lot more draft capital to improve the team through trades or drafts.  At the end of the day, I probably take the team with the best player, especially when that player is still super young (even with his injury history).  It is just a lot harder to find a true franchise player and Embiid certainly looks like one of those.

“Cocaine is a hell of a drug.”

Embiid is also the most injury prone of all the players (besides maybe Hayward) and I mean.... Embiid is literally the Process, not Simmons. He goes down and PHI is really screwed, even with Butler now added. That's where being deep (having depth) really helps. We even beat that PHI team without Kyrie and Hayward last season in just 5 games. They added Butler but it looks like Fultz is now a bust (not #1 pick value) and they still lack shooting outside of Reddick. Everyone loves to talk about Simmons and Embiid but it was their perimeter shooting that really helped them last year with the additions of Belinelli and Illyasova (also Covington & Saric). They were a .500 team before they added those 2 last season.

[hwangjini_1]

Would you rather be the Celtics or the 76ers right now? haha

That is an interesting question because right now the Sixers have the 2 best players on either team (Embiid and Butler) and might have the best rookie contract player (Simmons), but after that are very thin, while Boston is much deeper and has a lot more draft capital to improve the team through trades or drafts.  At the end of the day, I probably take the team with the best player, especially when that player is still super young (even with his injury history).  It is just a lot harder to find a true franchise player and Embiid certainly looks like one of those.

“Cocaine is a hell of a drug.”

Embiid is also the most injury prone of all the players (besides maybe Hayward) and I mean.... Embiid is literally the Process, not Simmons. He goes down and PHI is really screwed, even with Butler now added. That's where being deep (having depth) really helps. We even beat that PHI team without Kyrie and Hayward last season in just 5 games. They added Butler but it looks like Fultz is now a bust (not #1 pick value) and they still lack shooting outside of Reddick. Everyone loves to talk about Simmons and Embiid but it was their perimeter shooting that really helped them last year with the additions of Belinelli and Illyasova (also Covington & Saric). They were a .500 team before they added those 2 last season.

how many serious injuries has hayward had aside from last season that makes you write those words?

[Phantom255x]

Would you rather be the Celtics or the 76ers right now? haha

That is an interesting question because right now the Sixers have the 2 best players on either team (Embiid and Butler) and might have the best rookie contract player (Simmons), but after that are very thin, while Boston is much deeper and has a lot more draft capital to improve the team through trades or drafts.  At the end of the day, I probably take the team with the best player, especially when that player is still super young (even with his injury history).  It is just a lot harder to find a true franchise player and Embiid certainly looks like one of those.

“Cocaine is a hell of a drug.”

Embiid is also the most injury prone of all the players (besides maybe Hayward) and I mean.... Embiid is literally the Process, not Simmons. He goes down and PHI is really screwed, even with Butler now added. That's where being deep (having depth) really helps. We even beat that PHI team without Kyrie and Hayward last season in just 5 games. They added Butler but it looks like Fultz is now a bust (not #1 pick value) and they still lack shooting outside of Reddick. Everyone loves to talk about Simmons and Embiid but it was their perimeter shooting that really helped them last year with the additions of Belinelli and Illyasova (also Covington & Saric). They were a .500 team before they added those 2 last season.

how many serious injuries has hayward had aside from last season that makes you write those words?

My bad lol I probably should have worded that better. Meant to say more "injury risk".

But coming off serious injuries like what Embiid and Hayward dealt with usually leaves a player with a higher risk to get hurt again in the future, unfortunately. That's not at all to say they will but it's just the risk gets or remains higher still than most other players (nagging injuries, complications from previous, etc.)

[tazzmaniac]

Would you rather be the Celtics or the 76ers right now? haha

That is an interesting question because right now the Sixers have the 2 best players on either team (Embiid and Butler) and might have the best rookie contract player (Simmons), but after that are very thin, while Boston is much deeper and has a lot more draft capital to improve the team through trades or drafts.  At the end of the day, I probably take the team with the best player, especially when that player is still super young (even with his injury history).  It is just a lot harder to find a true franchise player and Embiid certainly looks like one of those.

“Cocaine is a hell of a drug.”

Embiid is also the most injury prone of all the players (besides maybe Hayward) and I mean.... Embiid is literally the Process, not Simmons. He goes down and PHI is really screwed, even with Butler now added. That's where being deep (having depth) really helps. We even beat that PHI team without Kyrie and Hayward last season in just 5 games. They added Butler but it looks like Fultz is now a bust (not #1 pick value) and they still lack shooting outside of Reddick. Everyone loves to talk about Simmons and Embiid but it was their perimeter shooting that really helped them last year with the additions of Belinelli and Illyasova (also Covington & Saric). They were a .500 team before they added those 2 last season.

how many serious injuries has hayward had aside from last season that makes you write those words?

My bad lol I probably should have worded that better. Meant to say more "injury risk".

But coming off serious injuries like what Embiid and Hayward dealt with usually leaves a player with a higher risk to get hurt again in the future, unfortunately. That's not at all to say they will but it's just the risk gets or remains higher still than most other players (nagging injuries, complications from previous, etc.)

Embiid is 3 years from his 2nd foot surgery for the same injury.  Subsequent to that he's had meniscus surgery and the facial surgery from the collision with Fultz.  Both of which were minor and unrelated to the foot surgery.  At this point, is he really more of an injury risk than Irving or Butler? 

[Eddie20]

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/markelle-fultz-sixers-trade-injury-shoulder-nba-76ers-raymond-brothers-20181124.html

If the 76ers have tired of this saga and are considering trading Fultz, and multiple sources said they are, his trade value must have declined a great deal since the start of the season.
The team might be able to get a late first-round pick for Fultz from a desperate club willing to take a chance, or the Sixers could try for a player with an expiring contract. That would enable them to avoid paying the $9.7 million that Fultz is guaranteed for next season

.

[Phantom255x]

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/markelle-fultz-sixers-trade-injury-shoulder-nba-76ers-raymond-brothers-20181124.html

If the 76ers have tired of this saga and are considering trading Fultz, and multiple sources said they are, his trade value must have declined a great deal since the start of the season.
The team might be able to get a late first-round pick for Fultz from a desperate club willing to take a chance, or the Sixers could try for a player with an expiring contract. That would enable them to avoid paying the $9.7 million that Fultz is guaranteed for next season

.

No one's giving up a first rounder of any kind for Fultz at this time, not with all that's transpired.

But the tidbit about the expiring contract is interesting. A bad team can certainly send PHI an expiring contract and take back Fultz and absorb him into their cap space for this year and next (assuming that bad team has a ton of cap flexibility), so it could be a gamble worth taking.

Either way this is looking like a bust for PHI. They're fine in the long run but if they never take that "next step" then the Fultz/Tatum trade is what'll haunt them the most IMHO.

Also the Butler trade looks like a combination of PHI being desperate to stay with the top dogs in the East (Toronto, Milwaukee, etc.) but also a "compromise" for Fultz not working out.

[CelticsElite]

Markelle Fultz is no longer in the long-term plans of the Philadelphia 76ers, according to some sources.

A report surfaced this week that Fultz would prefer a fresh start with another team. Fultz's agent, Raymond Brothers, has denied requesting a trade from the 76ers.

Fultz is in the process of seeing another shoulder specialist.

Multiple sources have said Fultz's value has declined since even the start of the season.

Fultz is guaranteed $9.7 million next season and the 76ers could look to trade him for a late first round pick or an expiring contract.

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/markelle-fultz-sixers-trade-injury-shoulder-nba-76ers-raymond-brothers-20181124.html

[apc]

Rumor is the Cavs may be interested in Fultz.
I would not like to see Korver going to the 76ers.

[IDreamCeltics]

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/markelle-fultz-sixers-trade-injury-shoulder-nba-76ers-raymond-brothers-20181124.html

If the 76ers have tired of this saga and are considering trading Fultz, and multiple sources said they are, his trade value must have declined a great deal since the start of the season.
The team might be able to get a late first-round pick for Fultz from a desperate club willing to take a chance, or the Sixers could try for a player with an expiring contract. That would enable them to avoid paying the $9.7 million that Fultz is guaranteed for next season

.

No one's giving up a first rounder of any kind for Fultz at this time, not with all that's transpired.

But the tidbit about the expiring contract is interesting. A bad team can certainly send PHI an expiring contract and take back Fultz and absorb him into their cap space for this year and next (assuming that bad team has a ton of cap flexibility), so it could be a gamble worth taking.

Either way this is looking like a bust for PHI. They're fine in the long run but if they never take that "next step" then the Fultz/Tatum trade is what'll haunt them the most IMHO.

Also the Butler trade looks like a combination of PHI being desperate to stay with the top dogs in the East (Toronto, Milwaukee, etc.) but also a "compromise" for Fultz not working out.

Someone smart will trade a first for him.  He may have been overdrafted by a couple of spots but he's still a top 10 pick in that draft. 

20 year old pointguards with a 3:1 Assist to Turnover ratio don't stay on the market for very long. 

[RockinRyA]

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/markelle-fultz-sixers-trade-injury-shoulder-nba-76ers-raymond-brothers-20181124.html

If the 76ers have tired of this saga and are considering trading Fultz, and multiple sources said they are, his trade value must have declined a great deal since the start of the season.
The team might be able to get a late first-round pick for Fultz from a desperate club willing to take a chance, or the Sixers could try for a player with an expiring contract. That would enable them to avoid paying the $9.7 million that Fultz is guaranteed for next season

.

No one's giving up a first rounder of any kind for Fultz at this time, not with all that's transpired.

But the tidbit about the expiring contract is interesting. A bad team can certainly send PHI an expiring contract and take back Fultz and absorb him into their cap space for this year and next (assuming that bad team has a ton of cap flexibility), so it could be a gamble worth taking.

Either way this is looking like a bust for PHI. They're fine in the long run but if they never take that "next step" then the Fultz/Tatum trade is what'll haunt them the most IMHO.

Also the Butler trade looks like a combination of PHI being desperate to stay with the top dogs in the East (Toronto, Milwaukee, etc.) but also a "compromise" for Fultz not working out.

Someone smart will trade a first for him.  He may have been overdrafted by a couple of spots but he's still a top 10 pick in that draft. 

20 year old pointguards with a 3:1 Assist to Turnover ratio don't stay on the market for very long.

are you serious?!

[IDreamCeltics]

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/markelle-fultz-sixers-trade-injury-shoulder-nba-76ers-raymond-brothers-20181124.html

If the 76ers have tired of this saga and are considering trading Fultz, and multiple sources said they are, his trade value must have declined a great deal since the start of the season.
The team might be able to get a late first-round pick for Fultz from a desperate club willing to take a chance, or the Sixers could try for a player with an expiring contract. That would enable them to avoid paying the $9.7 million that Fultz is guaranteed for next season

.

No one's giving up a first rounder of any kind for Fultz at this time, not with all that's transpired.

But the tidbit about the expiring contract is interesting. A bad team can certainly send PHI an expiring contract and take back Fultz and absorb him into their cap space for this year and next (assuming that bad team has a ton of cap flexibility), so it could be a gamble worth taking.

Either way this is looking like a bust for PHI. They're fine in the long run but if they never take that "next step" then the Fultz/Tatum trade is what'll haunt them the most IMHO.

Also the Butler trade looks like a combination of PHI being desperate to stay with the top dogs in the East (Toronto, Milwaukee, etc.) but also a "compromise" for Fultz not working out.

Someone smart will trade a first for him.  He may have been overdrafted by a couple of spots but he's still a top 10 pick in that draft. 

20 year old pointguards with a 3:1 Assist to Turnover ratio don't stay on the market for very long.

are you serious?!

I am quite serious.  33 games into his NBA career Fultz has proven to be a 20 year old player with some skills and some deficiencies (big surprise).  It's not his fault he was overhyped after one year of college basketball, and it's not his fault he is now underhyped after less than half a season of NBA basketball. 

I basically see no difference in Fultz's value at 20 years old than I did Marcus Smart's value at 20 years old (picked #6 overall in his draft).   

[IDreamCeltics]

Would you rather be the Celtics or the 76ers right now? haha

That is an interesting question because right now the Sixers have the 2 best players on either team (Embiid and Butler) and might have the best rookie contract player (Simmons), but after that are very thin, while Boston is much deeper and has a lot more draft capital to improve the team through trades or drafts.  At the end of the day, I probably take the team with the best player, especially when that player is still super young (even with his injury history).  It is just a lot harder to find a true franchise player and Embiid certainly looks like one of those.

“Cocaine is a hell of a drug.”

Embiid is also the most injury prone of all the players (besides maybe Hayward) and I mean.... Embiid is literally the Process, not Simmons. He goes down and PHI is really screwed, even with Butler now added. That's where being deep (having depth) really helps. We even beat that PHI team without Kyrie and Hayward last season in just 5 games. They added Butler but it looks like Fultz is now a bust (not #1 pick value) and they still lack shooting outside of Reddick. Everyone loves to talk about Simmons and Embiid but it was their perimeter shooting that really helped them last year with the additions of Belinelli and Illyasova (also Covington & Saric). They were a .500 team before they added those 2 last season.

how many serious injuries has hayward had aside from last season that makes you write those words?

My bad lol I probably should have worded that better. Meant to say more "injury risk".

But coming off serious injuries like what Embiid and Hayward dealt with usually leaves a player with a higher risk to get hurt again in the future, unfortunately. That's not at all to say they will but it's just the risk gets or remains higher still than most other players (nagging injuries, complications from previous, etc.)

Embiid is 3 years from his 2nd foot surgery for the same injury.  Subsequent to that he's had meniscus surgery and the facial surgery from the collision with Fultz.  Both of which were minor and unrelated to the foot surgery.  At this point, is he really more of an injury risk than Irving or Butler?

You left out fractured vertebrae in college.

[Phantom255x]

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/markelle-fultz-sixers-trade-injury-shoulder-nba-76ers-raymond-brothers-20181124.html

If the 76ers have tired of this saga and are considering trading Fultz, and multiple sources said they are, his trade value must have declined a great deal since the start of the season.
The team might be able to get a late first-round pick for Fultz from a desperate club willing to take a chance, or the Sixers could try for a player with an expiring contract. That would enable them to avoid paying the $9.7 million that Fultz is guaranteed for next season

.

No one's giving up a first rounder of any kind for Fultz at this time, not with all that's transpired.

But the tidbit about the expiring contract is interesting. A bad team can certainly send PHI an expiring contract and take back Fultz and absorb him into their cap space for this year and next (assuming that bad team has a ton of cap flexibility), so it could be a gamble worth taking.

Either way this is looking like a bust for PHI. They're fine in the long run but if they never take that "next step" then the Fultz/Tatum trade is what'll haunt them the most IMHO.

Also the Butler trade looks like a combination of PHI being desperate to stay with the top dogs in the East (Toronto, Milwaukee, etc.) but also a "compromise" for Fultz not working out.

Someone smart will trade a first for him.  He may have been overdrafted by a couple of spots but he's still a top 10 pick in that draft. 

20 year old pointguards with a 3:1 Assist to Turnover ratio don't stay on the market for very long.

Yeah, and those kind of 20-year old point guards RARELY hit the market to begin with.

Seems like a pretty big red flag that PHI traded for Butler and now seem desperate to trade Fultz so fast. Also he's seeing a shoulder specialist after supposedly spending all of last year and the summer trying to heal and correct his issues. He may even miss more significant time right now.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

There has been one recent player similar to Fultz that was traded during his rookie contract: De'Angelo Russell.

The Lakers got Brook Lopez's expiring contract, got off Mozgov's awful deal, and received the 27th pick that turned into Kyle Kuzma.

The Sixers do not have any comparable contracts to Mozgov right now, but generally, every 15-20 million is worth a late first.

In a comparable package, the Sixers would get multiple first round picks and an useful player on an expiring contract.

However, since Russell had shown much more production in the league than Fultz has, I think the most the Sixers could hope for would be a late first and a useful player on an expiring contract.

Ideas
Cavs trade JR Smith (partial guarantee next year) and Ante Zizic
Cavs trade Kyle Korver and a heavily protected 1st
Magic trade Terrance Ross and a heavily protected 1st

[celticsclay]

Would you rather be the Celtics or the 76ers right now? haha

That is an interesting question because right now the Sixers have the 2 best players on either team (Embiid and Butler) and might have the best rookie contract player (Simmons), but after that are very thin, while Boston is much deeper and has a lot more draft capital to improve the team through trades or drafts.  At the end of the day, I probably take the team with the best player, especially when that player is still super young (even with his injury history).  It is just a lot harder to find a true franchise player and Embiid certainly looks like one of those.

“Cocaine is a hell of a drug.”

Embiid is also the most injury prone of all the players (besides maybe Hayward) and I mean.... Embiid is literally the Process, not Simmons. He goes down and PHI is really screwed, even with Butler now added. That's where being deep (having depth) really helps. We even beat that PHI team without Kyrie and Hayward last season in just 5 games. They added Butler but it looks like Fultz is now a bust (not #1 pick value) and they still lack shooting outside of Reddick. Everyone loves to talk about Simmons and Embiid but it was their perimeter shooting that really helped them last year with the additions of Belinelli and Illyasova (also Covington & Saric). They were a .500 team before they added those 2 last season.

how many serious injuries has hayward had aside from last season that makes you write those words?

My bad lol I probably should have worded that better. Meant to say more "injury risk".

But coming off serious injuries like what Embiid and Hayward dealt with usually leaves a player with a higher risk to get hurt again in the future, unfortunately. That's not at all to say they will but it's just the risk gets or remains higher still than most other players (nagging injuries, complications from previous, etc.)

Embiid is 3 years from his 2nd foot surgery for the same injury.  Subsequent to that he's had meniscus surgery and the facial surgery from the collision with Fultz.  Both of which were minor and unrelated to the foot surgery.  At this point, is he really more of an injury risk than Irving or Butler?

You left out fractured vertebrae in college.

I'm curious if there is any actual statistic validity to the idea that centers with foot and leg problems are more prone to shorter careers than wings and guards with the same problems. There are obviously the high profile cases of ming, bowie, oden, Walton and our own mchale, but there are also a ton of high profile guys like tmac, Brandon Roy, penny hardaway and grant hill in this century of the top of my head. The idea that a guy with a bigger frame/more weight like embid would be at a higher risk makes sense logically, but I am not really sure if statistics data really bare this out. Anyone know?