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Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« on: December 12, 2018, 04:26:54 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I feel we need to upgrade some in our big rotation.  Horford is great, a legit starter, but after that, we don't have another starting quality big.  Morris has been playing great but he is more of a swing.  There have been threads about Randle (who I like but don't see how we get him) and others.  My latest infatuation is Bobby Portis so I have a couple of trade ideas for him.  What I am hoping for is all kinds of trades that get us a starting quality big or otherwise upgrade our big rotation.

Portis for Yabusele plus Clippers pick

Portis and Cameron Payne for Rozier and Yabusele.

The first one is sending out one big with a pick and getting back a better big.  The second one we give up the better "small" but get the better big.  Cameron Payne isn't horrible, he is clearly not as valuable as Rozier but for what we would need him to do, I think he would be fine.

Re: Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2018, 04:33:35 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Do NOT want Bobby "Catch Me Outside" Portis on the team.

I feel like the guy the Celts need is Domantas Sabonis, not that he's available.  Just that sort of guy as the ideal of what they'd want.  Basically Baynes but springier and with more offensive skill.


Doesn't seem dire to me, Theis is pretty good as long as he's healthy, Baynes is great in certain matchups, and in other matchups Horford is the only big that's gonna get minutes.


Most of the guys I'd be interested in going after make enough money that the Celts would have to give up a significant rotation piece to get them.  Not worth it, to me.
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Re: Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2018, 06:18:16 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Yeah, I don't have much good to say about Portis.  The guy is a bigger gunner than Morris, with a way more volatile personality.

Re: Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2018, 06:57:48 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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My only complaint about the bigs rotation is their health.

Horford has played amazing defense all year while being a great playmaker and though we are loaded with scorers, can still put up 20 point games.

Baynes is just what he is supposed to be, a great defensive inside force, excellent screen setter, good rebounder and an, at times, sneaky scorer.

Theis is another very good defender and rebounder who is a tremendous rim runner that still has to be guarded out on the perimeter.

With the advent of playing more SFs at PF across the league, Morris is great playing the PF position due to his strength and toughness. He should be a candidate for 6th man of the Year, if he returns to his off the bench role.

And rookie William's is dripping potential and showed in a pinch he can perform and be a factor.

Ojeleye has been a pleasant surprise giving quality minutes at power forward when called upon. He may not be the tallest PF, but he is a physical rock with great lower strength to keep opponents out of the paint. He also has shown major progress offensively.

Not sure why we need an upgrade. Especially Portis. Keep him far from the C's locker room.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 07:15:10 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2018, 07:01:15 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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I feel we need to upgrade some in our big rotation.  Horford is great, a legit starter, but after that, we don't have another starting quality big.  Morris has been playing great but he is more of a swing.  There have been threads about Randle (who I like but don't see how we get him) and others.  My latest infatuation is Bobby Portis so I have a couple of trade ideas for him.  What I am hoping for is all kinds of trades that get us a starting quality big or otherwise upgrade our big rotation.

Portis for Yabusele plus Clippers pick

Portis and Cameron Payne for Rozier and Yabusele.

The first one is sending out one big with a pick and getting back a better big.  The second one we give up the better "small" but get the better big.  Cameron Payne isn't horrible, he is clearly not as valuable as Rozier but for what we would need him to do, I think he would be fine.

I don't like Portis attitude and Payne is horrible.

If we make a trade it has to be for an All Star calibre big. Don't spend assets on minor improvements, Celtics are deep enough.

Although I would be willing to move Yabusele for pretty much anyone, he is not gonna make it.

 

Re: Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2018, 07:04:39 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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I feel we need to upgrade some in our big rotation.  Horford is great, a legit starter, but after that, we don't have another starting quality big.  Morris has been playing great but he is more of a swing.  There have been threads about Randle (who I like but don't see how we get him) and others.  My latest infatuation is Bobby Portis so I have a couple of trade ideas for him.  What I am hoping for is all kinds of trades that get us a starting quality big or otherwise upgrade our big rotation.

Portis for Yabusele plus Clippers pick

Portis and Cameron Payne for Rozier and Yabusele.

The first one is sending out one big with a pick and getting back a better big.  The second one we give up the better "small" but get the better big.  Cameron Payne isn't horrible, he is clearly not as valuable as Rozier but for what we would need him to do, I think he would be fine.

I don't like Portis attitude and Payne is horrible.

If we make a trade it has to be for an All Star calibre big. Don't spend assets on minor improvements, Celtics are deep enough.

Although I would be willing to move Yabusele for pretty much anyone, he is not gonna make it.

 

I agree.  Either trade for an elite big or use the draft picks to gamble on bigs with potential.  Finding a long term future replacement for Horford would be ideal.

Re: Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2018, 09:23:06 AM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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We have, arguably, the most depth of any big man rotation in the NBA.

Horford-Baynes-Morris-Theis-Williams-Yabu

I think Bobby Portis would be after Williams in that rotation. How does that help our depth? I'd rather keep Yabu. He seems like a good lockerroom guy that brings energy to the court and can stretch the floor from the top of the break.

Re: Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2018, 10:01:14 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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We have, arguably, the most depth of any big man rotation in the NBA.

Horford-Baynes-Morris-Theis-Williams-Yabu

I think Bobby Portis would be after Williams in that rotation. How does that help our depth? I'd rather keep Yabu. He seems like a good lockerroom guy that brings energy to the court and can stretch the floor from the top of the break.

Last season, Baynes averaged 6 pts and 5.5 rebs (this season he is down from that).  Portis averaged 13 pts and 7 rebs (this season, Portis has only played 5 games but is around 10/10).  I understand that Portis has had locker room issues but he is 23 (Baynes is 32).  I don't get to see Portis play much but in the instances that I have, he has been good, solid.

I think Portis would be much better than Baynes playing next to Horford or Morris.  I don't see this as a huge upgrade, just reinforcing a soft spot.  Horford is clearly ahead of Portis as is Morris but I don't see Morris as a true big.  Apparently, people are much higher on Baynes, Theis, and Williams than me.  I like the future of Williams just fine, but I like the present of Portis much better.

Re: Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2018, 10:14:09 AM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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We have, arguably, the most depth of any big man rotation in the NBA.

Horford-Baynes-Morris-Theis-Williams-Yabu

I think Bobby Portis would be after Williams in that rotation. How does that help our depth? I'd rather keep Yabu. He seems like a good lockerroom guy that brings energy to the court and can stretch the floor from the top of the break.

Last season, Baynes averaged 6 pts and 5.5 rebs (this season he is down from that).  Portis averaged 13 pts and 7 rebs (this season, Portis has only played 5 games but is around 10/10).  I understand that Portis has had locker room issues but he is 23 (Baynes is 32).  I don't get to see Portis play much but in the instances that I have, he has been good, solid.

I think Portis would be much better than Baynes playing next to Horford or Morris.  I don't see this as a huge upgrade, just reinforcing a soft spot.  Horford is clearly ahead of Portis as is Morris but I don't see Morris as a true big.  Apparently, people are much higher on Baynes, Theis, and Williams than me.  I like the future of Williams just fine, but I like the present of Portis much better.

Direct comparisons of stats are unhelpful. 13/7 on a team that went 27-55 is not good. Someone has to get points. Someone has to get rebounds. But that does not mean he is contributing to winning basketball.

He can't even get starts over Robin Lopez, Wendell Carter, Jabari Parker, Lauri Markannen, or Nikola Mirotic. I actually like Bobby Portis' game in the limited time I've watched him, but there must be a reason he can't get starts on a terrible basketball team.

Alot of being a big man in the NBA is great positional team defense, especially on the pick-and-roll, but whenever I've seen Portis against the Celtics, the Cs guards have torched Portis in the pick-and-roll time and again. That doesn't happen against the Cs bigs. If he puts up some points and gets some rebounds, but can't contain penetration, he can't play in the playoffs (Greg Monroe).

Again, I like his athleticism. I like his length. I like his competitiveness. I like his shooting. I like his potential. But I don't like it enough to take minutes away from Williams, who I consider to have much more potential, or to take minutes away from Theis, Morris, Horford, or Baynes, who are much better team basketball players.

Plus, I'm unreasonably high on Yabusele. I tend to think he is going to have a long career in the NBA. I think Yabu and Portis are at the same level. I wouldn't give up a pick plus Yabu to get a comparable player. I definitely wouldn't give up a starting guard (Rozier) and Yabu for a comparable player and a guy who won't be in the NBA when his rookie contract runs out.

Re: Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2018, 10:46:17 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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If we make a trade it has to be for an All Star calibre big. Don't spend assets on minor improvements, Celtics are deep enough.

...
This.  I know many of us like to be armchair GM's, but one thing DA has consistently said is you need "special" players to win in this league.  Now, not all of his trades have been for "special" players, but many of those were done to eventually set up a more significant trade  (e.g., Marcus Thornton netted IT who netted Kyrie, in broad strokes).  As it stands now, the Celts are legit contenders, so shuffling the deck to position for a better trade is over.

Re: Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2018, 10:48:19 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Quote from: DefenseWinsChamps link=topic=98395.msg2593158#msg2593158
Direct comparisons of stats are unhelpful. 13/7 on a team that went 27-55 is not good. Someone has to get points. Someone has to get rebounds. But that does not mean he is contributing to winning basketball.

Marcus Morris averaged about 14/5 his last two seasons on Detroit.  Stats are just stats I know but I think Portis does what he does about as well as Morris does what he does.  I really like Morris, he is a versatile swing who can produce in a variety of roles.  I envision Portis being equally productive but with more size and offering different versatility as a big that we need.

Maybe Yabusele and a second round pick if that would get it done.  I am not that high on Yabusele certainly for the present and his future has questions in my mind.  Portis can help us more today, much more in my opinion.

Re: Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2018, 10:49:16 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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...

If we make a trade it has to be for an All Star calibre big. Don't spend assets on minor improvements, Celtics are deep enough.

...
This.  I know many of us like to be armchair GM's, but one thing DA has consistently said is you need "special" players to win in this league.  Now, not all of his trades have been for "special" players, but many of those were done to eventually set up a more significant trade  (e.g., Marcus Thornton netted IT who netted Kyrie, in broad strokes).  As it stands now, the Celts are legit contenders, so shuffling the deck to position for a better trade is over.

OK, I am all for trading for a "special" big.  What are your ideas?  Who do you want to get?

Re: Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2018, 11:03:31 AM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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Quote from: DefenseWinsChamps link=topic=98395.msg2593158#msg2593158
Direct comparisons of stats are unhelpful. 13/7 on a team that went 27-55 is not good. Someone has to get points. Someone has to get rebounds. But that does not mean he is contributing to winning basketball.

Marcus Morris averaged about 14/5 his last two seasons on Detroit.  Stats are just stats I know but I think Portis does what he does about as well as Morris does what he does.  I really like Morris, he is a versatile swing who can produce in a variety of roles.  I envision Portis being equally productive but with more size and offering different versatility as a big that we need.

Maybe Yabusele and a second round pick if that would get it done.  I am not that high on Yabusele certainly for the present and his future has questions in my mind.  Portis can help us more today, much more in my opinion.

Again, I think we are trying to compare apples to oranges.

Morris' offensive efficiency has gone up, but his defensive fundamentals were always pretty good.

I mean, I've been wrong about players before. I could be wrong about Portis. You could be right that he just needs a different situation. From what I've seen, I disagree, but I think we are allowed to disagree agreeably.

Re: Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2018, 11:07:31 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Bobby Portis doesn't and hasn't been a starter in Chicago because his defense is atrocious. His man defense is bad but he is just terrible in team defense and it was complained about him last year that he just never communicated defensively on the floor. I will take Horford, Theis, Mook, Baynes and Williams over him.

Re: Trade Ideas to Upgrade our Big Rotation
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2018, 11:10:24 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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If we make a trade it has to be for an All Star calibre big. Don't spend assets on minor improvements, Celtics are deep enough.

...
This.  I know many of us like to be armchair GM's, but one thing DA has consistently said is you need "special" players to win in this league.  Now, not all of his trades have been for "special" players, but many of those were done to eventually set up a more significant trade  (e.g., Marcus Thornton netted IT who netted Kyrie, in broad strokes).  As it stands now, the Celts are legit contenders, so shuffling the deck to position for a better trade is over.

OK, I am all for trading for a "special" big.  What are your ideas?  Who do you want to get?
I want Robert Williams, 2020 version.   ;)  My point is the same as DefenseWinsChamps:
Quote
We have, arguably, the most depth of any big man rotation in the NBA.

Horford-Baynes-Morris-Theis-Williams-Yabu