Feelings on the In Season Tournament?

[Celtics2021]

Last night was awesome. 

Scoreboard watching a Raptors/Nets game in November?  Who would've ever thought that. 

Obviously, if someone tears their ACL during the IST Finals and goes out for the season, then I'm singing a different tune, though.

Out of curiosity, how do you see that as different from any other regular season game? The injury could happen in a non IST game. It’s still the same.

Well, a starter playing in the 4th quarter with a 30 point lead playing for point differential wouldn't be happening in a regular game. 

In regards to the IST playoffs, I'm assuming the game is going to be played on another effort level as teams try to win the tournament.  Having a guy play 44 minutes in a December game trying to win a tournament game has more opportunity to injure himself.  A normal December game that might even be a rest game for a star turns into a max effort game. 

You're right that people can get injured at any moment, though.

Yeah I remember Kemba Walker got injured in an ASG and eventually resulted in Celtics losing to the Heat in the playoffs.

We lost Gallinari last year to a EuroCup injury.  Basketball players are going to play basketball and sometimes that basketball will result in an injury.  But the vast majority of the time it doesn’t, because otherwise we wouldn’t have any basketball to watch.

Put another way, if they lose in Vegas before the finals, or don’t make it, they’ll probably have a full practice next weekend which also has a chance of resulting in injury.

[Donoghus]

Article on "the floor"

https://heavy.com/sports/boston-celtics/nba-in-season-tournament-floor/

Some interesting notes here.

The splashy floor — enjoyed by some, reviled by others — was used twice at TD Garden, and when all the machinations had unfolded and it was clear the Celts would be hitting the road in the IST, the directive came quickly: “Send it back.”

The more we scratched the paint off the story, the more interesting it became.

While the Celtic organization is in favor of the NBA In-Season Tournament and what it can do for the league, even understanding that new courts to differentiate these games would be part of the package, it took exception to the signature aspect of its regular floor being left out — as reported here when the new court was introduced at TD Garden.

Celtics’ lead owner Wyc Grousbeck confirmed our story again this week.

“We definitely requested that our center strip be parquet,” he told Heavy Sports, “and they requested that we look like the other courts with a solid color.

“People have generally said they think ours is one of the better looking (IST) courts. I think ours looks fine. But we miss the parquet, and we would like to have it.”

In a nod to the past as they put new flooring in the new building, bolts were placed on the floorboards and covered with the glossy finish to make the surface uniform.

According to both team and league sources, the Celts have already started lobbying to incorporate some form of parquet on the floor for next year’s In-Season Tournament. It almost certainly won’t be a true parquet style based on a checkerboard of wood grain squares lined up in opposite directions. Perhaps the best the club can hope for is some parquet highlighting in the paint job.

In any case, the odds are extremely strong the paint job on the Celtic court will be erased in the next few months, as this one won’t be hanging around. Forbes places the cost of an In-Season Tournament floor at between $75,000 and $150,000, but that’s not nearly the case with the Celtics’ court — and presumably that of some others.

That’s because the C’s are renting this green and beige-striped surface, the lease covering the months of November and December.

That’s right, renting.

The league office will ultimately foot the bill for this and the other floors. (That’s one receipt you want to be sure to save for reimbursement.)

Because of the whole rental aspect, this isn’t the first rodeo for the NBA In-Season Tournament court you’ve been seeing at TD Garden. You may have watched games on it before, though you wouldn’t have recognized it.

This is its second job, the first coming last spring when it was created for the NCAA and got dribbled on at a March Madness tourney site.

[Silas]

I am not looking forward to the extra high intensity games v top competition with an extra cross country trip with the possibility of an 83rd game — followed by an intense schedule at home - 2 games each v the Cavs and Magic, and another cross country trip to play both LA teams, GSW, and Sac.   All before Christmas (LAL on Christmas Day). 

VERY reasonable possibility that the stretch following the IST Final in Vegas costs them in seeding for the REAL tournament.  They will be exhausted putting high minutes/effort into the IST (not to mention kicking off the stretch with tomorrow’s game v Sixers) and will be running on fumes by Christmas.  Meanwhile, the Sixers play a relaxed schedule with a 4-day break during the IST and 2 v. Wizards, 2 v. pistons and a game each v. Bulls and Hawks.

I expect the Sixers to be at least 2 games ahead of the Celtics by the end of December.  And surely at least one Celtic comes out of this stretch hurt.

I HATE the IST. I believe there is a decent chance that it costs the Celtics a championship.

Really, living up to your avatar there Neurotic Guy...

Isn't it just like one extra game? The scheduling clustering will even out to thinning (a tiny bit) later in the saeson.. right when we want to having guys fresh before the playoffs no?

LOL - guilty as charged.  I won’t defend the over worries but I still believe the Cs will be well behind the Sixers by the end of December (worse if Cs lose tonight), and the IST will take some blame for the ultimate seeding even though we’re just in December of a long season. The extra intensity could lead to some problems physically. But I guess the bottom line for me is that I get nothing out of the tournament and I all I see are potential cost.

Tatum is playing 37MPG right now, which is high, but no one else on the team is cracking 35 (Holiday and Brown are close). They're young guys, so I don't think they should be particularly worn down by the end of the year. Freak injuries are always a worry, but you can't particularly control for them.

I checked the minutes played on the 85-86, 67 win team:  Bird - 38 m/g; McHale - 35.3; DJ - 35; Chief - 31.7; and Ainge - 30.1.  Except for Jrue, the current starters are about the same or younger than the 80s team.

[Kernewek]

I am not looking forward to the extra high intensity games v top competition with an extra cross country trip with the possibility of an 83rd game — followed by an intense schedule at home - 2 games each v the Cavs and Magic, and another cross country trip to play both LA teams, GSW, and Sac.   All before Christmas (LAL on Christmas Day). 

VERY reasonable possibility that the stretch following the IST Final in Vegas costs them in seeding for the REAL tournament.  They will be exhausted putting high minutes/effort into the IST (not to mention kicking off the stretch with tomorrow’s game v Sixers) and will be running on fumes by Christmas.  Meanwhile, the Sixers play a relaxed schedule with a 4-day break during the IST and 2 v. Wizards, 2 v. pistons and a game each v. Bulls and Hawks.

I expect the Sixers to be at least 2 games ahead of the Celtics by the end of December.  And surely at least one Celtic comes out of this stretch hurt.

I HATE the IST. I believe there is a decent chance that it costs the Celtics a championship.

Really, living up to your avatar there Neurotic Guy...

Isn't it just like one extra game? The scheduling clustering will even out to thinning (a tiny bit) later in the saeson.. right when we want to having guys fresh before the playoffs no?

LOL - guilty as charged.  I won’t defend the over worries but I still believe the Cs will be well behind the Sixers by the end of December (worse if Cs lose tonight), and the IST will take some blame for the ultimate seeding even though we’re just in December of a long season. The extra intensity could lead to some problems physically. But I guess the bottom line for me is that I get nothing out of the tournament and I all I see are potential cost.

Tatum is playing 37MPG right now, which is high, but no one else on the team is cracking 35 (Holiday and Brown are close). They're young guys, so I don't think they should be particularly worn down by the end of the year. Freak injuries are always a worry, but you can't particularly control for them.

I checked the minutes played on the 85-86, 67 win team:  Bird - 38 m/g; McHale - 35.3; DJ - 35; Chief - 31.7; and Ainge - 30.1.  Except for Jrue, the current starters are about the same or younger than the 80s team.

That's really cool - I would have expected those to be higher since I'm kind of conditioned to the idea that guys in the 'load management' era play fewer minutes now than at pretty much any other time in league history.

I do wonder a little bit about conditioning - people always talk about the Heat as a team that is kind of horrible to play for because they're very all in on exercise and practices - to the point of excess, for some  players & agents - but they've also consistently overperformed expectations in the playoffs. Wonder if there's a trackable correlation there (most probably not).

[Neurotic Guy]

I am not looking forward to the extra high intensity games v top competition with an extra cross country trip with the possibility of an 83rd game — followed by an intense schedule at home - 2 games each v the Cavs and Magic, and another cross country trip to play both LA teams, GSW, and Sac.   All before Christmas (LAL on Christmas Day). 

VERY reasonable possibility that the stretch following the IST Final in Vegas costs them in seeding for the REAL tournament.  They will be exhausted putting high minutes/effort into the IST (not to mention kicking off the stretch with tomorrow’s game v Sixers) and will be running on fumes by Christmas.  Meanwhile, the Sixers play a relaxed schedule with a 4-day break during the IST and 2 v. Wizards, 2 v. pistons and a game each v. Bulls and Hawks.

I expect the Sixers to be at least 2 games ahead of the Celtics by the end of December.  And surely at least one Celtic comes out of this stretch hurt.

I HATE the IST. I believe there is a decent chance that it costs the Celtics a championship.

Really, living up to your avatar there Neurotic Guy...

Isn't it just like one extra game? The scheduling clustering will even out to thinning (a tiny bit) later in the saeson.. right when we want to having guys fresh before the playoffs no?

LOL - guilty as charged.  I won’t defend the over worries but I still believe the Cs will be well behind the Sixers by the end of December (worse if Cs lose tonight), and the IST will take some blame for the ultimate seeding even though we’re just in December of a long season. The extra intensity could lead to some problems physically. But I guess the bottom line for me is that I get nothing out of the tournament and I all I see are potential cost.

Tatum is playing 37MPG right now, which is high, but no one else on the team is cracking 35 (Holiday and Brown are close). They're young guys, so I don't think they should be particularly worn down by the end of the year. Freak injuries are always a worry, but you can't particularly control for them.

My argument wasn’t really about minutes but more about an intense 3-week stretch for the Cs compared to a team like Philly who missed the tournament.  It’s going to be a significant difference IMO when the dust settles on December.  Some of it was already scheduled, but a lot is due to the tournament.  Maybe it balances out somewhat, but it won’t completely and the seeding may come down to a few games for 1 to 5.  Injury possibilities with an extra game and added intensity is a little icing on a bad cake.

[Roy H.]

I am not looking forward to the extra high intensity games v top competition with an extra cross country trip with the possibility of an 83rd game — followed by an intense schedule at home - 2 games each v the Cavs and Magic, and another cross country trip to play both LA teams, GSW, and Sac.   All before Christmas (LAL on Christmas Day). 

VERY reasonable possibility that the stretch following the IST Final in Vegas costs them in seeding for the REAL tournament.  They will be exhausted putting high minutes/effort into the IST (not to mention kicking off the stretch with tomorrow’s game v Sixers) and will be running on fumes by Christmas.  Meanwhile, the Sixers play a relaxed schedule with a 4-day break during the IST and 2 v. Wizards, 2 v. pistons and a game each v. Bulls and Hawks.

I expect the Sixers to be at least 2 games ahead of the Celtics by the end of December.  And surely at least one Celtic comes out of this stretch hurt.

I HATE the IST. I believe there is a decent chance that it costs the Celtics a championship.

Really, living up to your avatar there Neurotic Guy...

Isn't it just like one extra game? The scheduling clustering will even out to thinning (a tiny bit) later in the saeson.. right when we want to having guys fresh before the playoffs no?

LOL - guilty as charged.  I won’t defend the over worries but I still believe the Cs will be well behind the Sixers by the end of December (worse if Cs lose tonight), and the IST will take some blame for the ultimate seeding even though we’re just in December of a long season. The extra intensity could lead to some problems physically. But I guess the bottom line for me is that I get nothing out of the tournament and I all I see are potential cost.

Tatum is playing 37MPG right now, which is high, but no one else on the team is cracking 35 (Holiday and Brown are close). They're young guys, so I don't think they should be particularly worn down by the end of the year. Freak injuries are always a worry, but you can't particularly control for them.

My argument wasn’t really about minutes but more about an intense 3-week stretch for the Cs compared to a team like Philly who missed the tournament.  It’s going to be a significant difference IMO when the dust settles on December.  Some of it was already scheduled, but a lot is due to the tournament.  Maybe it balances out somewhat, but it won’t completely and the seeding may come down to a few games for 1 to 5.  Injury possibilities with an extra game and added intensity is a little icing on a bad cake.

Maybe the intensity will be a good thing?  A playoff atmosphere for a team that hasn't played those games as a starting lineup?  A test for Joe?

I get your points, but ultimately the only team in the East who can beat the Celts is themselves.  I'm not worried much about home court.  Rather, I'd like to see how they adjust under pressure.

[Kernewek]

I am not looking forward to the extra high intensity games v top competition with an extra cross country trip with the possibility of an 83rd game — followed by an intense schedule at home - 2 games each v the Cavs and Magic, and another cross country trip to play both LA teams, GSW, and Sac.   All before Christmas (LAL on Christmas Day). 

VERY reasonable possibility that the stretch following the IST Final in Vegas costs them in seeding for the REAL tournament.  They will be exhausted putting high minutes/effort into the IST (not to mention kicking off the stretch with tomorrow’s game v Sixers) and will be running on fumes by Christmas.  Meanwhile, the Sixers play a relaxed schedule with a 4-day break during the IST and 2 v. Wizards, 2 v. pistons and a game each v. Bulls and Hawks.

I expect the Sixers to be at least 2 games ahead of the Celtics by the end of December.  And surely at least one Celtic comes out of this stretch hurt.

I HATE the IST. I believe there is a decent chance that it costs the Celtics a championship.

Really, living up to your avatar there Neurotic Guy...

Isn't it just like one extra game? The scheduling clustering will even out to thinning (a tiny bit) later in the saeson.. right when we want to having guys fresh before the playoffs no?

LOL - guilty as charged.  I won’t defend the over worries but I still believe the Cs will be well behind the Sixers by the end of December (worse if Cs lose tonight), and the IST will take some blame for the ultimate seeding even though we’re just in December of a long season. The extra intensity could lead to some problems physically. But I guess the bottom line for me is that I get nothing out of the tournament and I all I see are potential cost.

Tatum is playing 37MPG right now, which is high, but no one else on the team is cracking 35 (Holiday and Brown are close). They're young guys, so I don't think they should be particularly worn down by the end of the year. Freak injuries are always a worry, but you can't particularly control for them.

My argument wasn’t really about minutes but more about an intense 3-week stretch for the Cs compared to a team like Philly who missed the tournament.  It’s going to be a significant difference IMO when the dust settles on December.  Some of it was already scheduled, but a lot is due to the tournament.  Maybe it balances out somewhat, but it won’t completely and the seeding may come down to a few games for 1 to 5.  Injury possibilities with an extra game and added intensity is a little icing on a bad cake.

Maybe the intensity will be a good thing?  A playoff atmosphere for a team that hasn't played those games as a starting lineup?  A test for Joe?

I get your points, but ultimately the only team in the East who can beat the Celts is themselves.  I'm not worried much about home court.  Rather, I'd like to see how they adjust under pressure.

I'm inclined to agree - I think we all expected that the absolute floor for this new lineup was the ECF, presuming everyone stays relatively healthy. We have team of guys who should be trying to win it all - which, to me, encompasses the IST as well as a championship.

Sometimes you can play perfectly and still lose, but I don't think the team is in that position this year.

[Moranis]

I am not looking forward to the extra high intensity games v top competition with an extra cross country trip with the possibility of an 83rd game — followed by an intense schedule at home - 2 games each v the Cavs and Magic, and another cross country trip to play both LA teams, GSW, and Sac.   All before Christmas (LAL on Christmas Day). 

VERY reasonable possibility that the stretch following the IST Final in Vegas costs them in seeding for the REAL tournament.  They will be exhausted putting high minutes/effort into the IST (not to mention kicking off the stretch with tomorrow’s game v Sixers) and will be running on fumes by Christmas.  Meanwhile, the Sixers play a relaxed schedule with a 4-day break during the IST and 2 v. Wizards, 2 v. pistons and a game each v. Bulls and Hawks.

I expect the Sixers to be at least 2 games ahead of the Celtics by the end of December.  And surely at least one Celtic comes out of this stretch hurt.

I HATE the IST. I believe there is a decent chance that it costs the Celtics a championship.

Really, living up to your avatar there Neurotic Guy...

Isn't it just like one extra game? The scheduling clustering will even out to thinning (a tiny bit) later in the saeson.. right when we want to having guys fresh before the playoffs no?

LOL - guilty as charged.  I won’t defend the over worries but I still believe the Cs will be well behind the Sixers by the end of December (worse if Cs lose tonight), and the IST will take some blame for the ultimate seeding even though we’re just in December of a long season. The extra intensity could lead to some problems physically. But I guess the bottom line for me is that I get nothing out of the tournament and I all I see are potential cost.

Tatum is playing 37MPG right now, which is high, but no one else on the team is cracking 35 (Holiday and Brown are close). They're young guys, so I don't think they should be particularly worn down by the end of the year. Freak injuries are always a worry, but you can't particularly control for them.

My argument wasn’t really about minutes but more about an intense 3-week stretch for the Cs compared to a team like Philly who missed the tournament.  It’s going to be a significant difference IMO when the dust settles on December.  Some of it was already scheduled, but a lot is due to the tournament.  Maybe it balances out somewhat, but it won’t completely and the seeding may come down to a few games for 1 to 5.  Injury possibilities with an extra game and added intensity is a little icing on a bad cake.

Seeding may come down to a few games, but you won't know where you'd want to be seeded until much later.  I mean right now Boston is the 1 seed, Cleveland is 8, and Philly is 4.  Whereas the Bucks are the 3 seed and would have 6 Miami, 2 Orlando.  Miami is tough, but I'd much rather play Orlando than Philly.

[mobilija]

I am not looking forward to the extra high intensity games v top competition with an extra cross country trip with the possibility of an 83rd game — followed by an intense schedule at home - 2 games each v the Cavs and Magic, and another cross country trip to play both LA teams, GSW, and Sac.   All before Christmas (LAL on Christmas Day). 

VERY reasonable possibility that the stretch following the IST Final in Vegas costs them in seeding for the REAL tournament.  They will be exhausted putting high minutes/effort into the IST (not to mention kicking off the stretch with tomorrow’s game v Sixers) and will be running on fumes by Christmas.  Meanwhile, the Sixers play a relaxed schedule with a 4-day break during the IST and 2 v. Wizards, 2 v. pistons and a game each v. Bulls and Hawks.

I expect the Sixers to be at least 2 games ahead of the Celtics by the end of December.  And surely at least one Celtic comes out of this stretch hurt.

I HATE the IST. I believe there is a decent chance that it costs the Celtics a championship.

Really, living up to your avatar there Neurotic Guy...

Isn't it just like one extra game? The scheduling clustering will even out to thinning (a tiny bit) later in the saeson.. right when we want to having guys fresh before the playoffs no?

LOL - guilty as charged.  I won’t defend the over worries but I still believe the Cs will be well behind the Sixers by the end of December (worse if Cs lose tonight), and the IST will take some blame for the ultimate seeding even though we’re just in December of a long season. The extra intensity could lead to some problems physically. But I guess the bottom line for me is that I get nothing out of the tournament and I all I see are potential cost.

Tatum is playing 37MPG right now, which is high, but no one else on the team is cracking 35 (Holiday and Brown are close). They're young guys, so I don't think they should be particularly worn down by the end of the year. Freak injuries are always a worry, but you can't particularly control for them.

My argument wasn’t really about minutes but more about an intense 3-week stretch for the Cs compared to a team like Philly who missed the tournament.  It’s going to be a significant difference IMO when the dust settles on December.  Some of it was already scheduled, but a lot is due to the tournament.  Maybe it balances out somewhat, but it won’t completely and the seeding may come down to a few games for 1 to 5.  Injury possibilities with an extra game and added intensity is a little icing on a bad cake.

Seeding may come down to a few games, but you won't know where you'd want to be seeded until much later.  I mean right now Boston is the 1 seed, Cleveland is 8, and Philly is 4.  Whereas the Bucks are the 3 seed and would have 6 Miami, 2 Orlando.  Miami is tough, but I'd much rather play Orlando than Philly.

On paper...
But the last few years of data suggests we match up with and play Philly much better than we do Orlando.

[Neurotic Guy]

I am not looking forward to the extra high intensity games v top competition with an extra cross country trip with the possibility of an 83rd game — followed by an intense schedule at home - 2 games each v the Cavs and Magic, and another cross country trip to play both LA teams, GSW, and Sac.   All before Christmas (LAL on Christmas Day). 

VERY reasonable possibility that the stretch following the IST Final in Vegas costs them in seeding for the REAL tournament.  They will be exhausted putting high minutes/effort into the IST (not to mention kicking off the stretch with tomorrow’s game v Sixers) and will be running on fumes by Christmas.  Meanwhile, the Sixers play a relaxed schedule with a 4-day break during the IST and 2 v. Wizards, 2 v. pistons and a game each v. Bulls and Hawks.

I expect the Sixers to be at least 2 games ahead of the Celtics by the end of December.  And surely at least one Celtic comes out of this stretch hurt.

I HATE the IST. I believe there is a decent chance that it costs the Celtics a championship.

Really, living up to your avatar there Neurotic Guy...

Isn't it just like one extra game? The scheduling clustering will even out to thinning (a tiny bit) later in the saeson.. right when we want to having guys fresh before the playoffs no?

LOL - guilty as charged.  I won’t defend the over worries but I still believe the Cs will be well behind the Sixers by the end of December (worse if Cs lose tonight), and the IST will take some blame for the ultimate seeding even though we’re just in December of a long season. The extra intensity could lead to some problems physically. But I guess the bottom line for me is that I get nothing out of the tournament and I all I see are potential cost.

Tatum is playing 37MPG right now, which is high, but no one else on the team is cracking 35 (Holiday and Brown are close). They're young guys, so I don't think they should be particularly worn down by the end of the year. Freak injuries are always a worry, but you can't particularly control for them.

My argument wasn’t really about minutes but more about an intense 3-week stretch for the Cs compared to a team like Philly who missed the tournament.  It’s going to be a significant difference IMO when the dust settles on December.  Some of it was already scheduled, but a lot is due to the tournament.  Maybe it balances out somewhat, but it won’t completely and the seeding may come down to a few games for 1 to 5.  Injury possibilities with an extra game and added intensity is a little icing on a bad cake.

Seeding may come down to a few games, but you won't know where you'd want to be seeded until much later.  I mean right now Boston is the 1 seed, Cleveland is 8, and Philly is 4.  Whereas the Bucks are the 3 seed and would have 6 Miami, 2 Orlando.  Miami is tough, but I'd much rather play Orlando than Philly.

Ok, but do you think it’s typically an easier road for the #1 seed or the 4/5 seeds?  And of course this also plays into HCA in the Finals.  Currently, home court appears to be an advantage this year for the Cs.   As I go and jinx tonight’s game.


If I thought there was any redeeming value to the IST I’d be less inclined to feel concerned about wins, seeding, or the added injury risk.  But since it’s valueless to me, it bugs me.

[Donoghus]

I am not looking forward to the extra high intensity games v top competition with an extra cross country trip with the possibility of an 83rd game — followed by an intense schedule at home - 2 games each v the Cavs and Magic, and another cross country trip to play both LA teams, GSW, and Sac.   All before Christmas (LAL on Christmas Day). 

VERY reasonable possibility that the stretch following the IST Final in Vegas costs them in seeding for the REAL tournament.  They will be exhausted putting high minutes/effort into the IST (not to mention kicking off the stretch with tomorrow’s game v Sixers) and will be running on fumes by Christmas.  Meanwhile, the Sixers play a relaxed schedule with a 4-day break during the IST and 2 v. Wizards, 2 v. pistons and a game each v. Bulls and Hawks.

I expect the Sixers to be at least 2 games ahead of the Celtics by the end of December.  And surely at least one Celtic comes out of this stretch hurt.

I HATE the IST. I believe there is a decent chance that it costs the Celtics a championship.

Really, living up to your avatar there Neurotic Guy...

Isn't it just like one extra game? The scheduling clustering will even out to thinning (a tiny bit) later in the saeson.. right when we want to having guys fresh before the playoffs no?

LOL - guilty as charged.  I won’t defend the over worries but I still believe the Cs will be well behind the Sixers by the end of December (worse if Cs lose tonight), and the IST will take some blame for the ultimate seeding even though we’re just in December of a long season. The extra intensity could lead to some problems physically. But I guess the bottom line for me is that I get nothing out of the tournament and I all I see are potential cost.

Tatum is playing 37MPG right now, which is high, but no one else on the team is cracking 35 (Holiday and Brown are close). They're young guys, so I don't think they should be particularly worn down by the end of the year. Freak injuries are always a worry, but you can't particularly control for them.

My argument wasn’t really about minutes but more about an intense 3-week stretch for the Cs compared to a team like Philly who missed the tournament.  It’s going to be a significant difference IMO when the dust settles on December.  Some of it was already scheduled, but a lot is due to the tournament.  Maybe it balances out somewhat, but it won’t completely and the seeding may come down to a few games for 1 to 5.  Injury possibilities with an extra game and added intensity is a little icing on a bad cake.

Seeding may come down to a few games, but you won't know where you'd want to be seeded until much later.  I mean right now Boston is the 1 seed, Cleveland is 8, and Philly is 4.  Whereas the Bucks are the 3 seed and would have 6 Miami, 2 Orlando.  Miami is tough, but I'd much rather play Orlando than Philly.

Ok, but do you think it’s typically an easier road for the #1 seed or the 4/5 seeds?  And of course this also plays into HCA in the Finals.  Currently, home court appears to be an advantage this year for the Cs.   As I go and jinx tonight’s game.


If I thought there was any redeeming value to the IST I’d be less inclined to feel concerned about wins, seeding, or the added injury risk.  But since it’s valueless to me, it bugs me.

HCA in the East would be an added luxury for me but I don't see it as a necessity.  Maintaining HCA in the Finals would be a larger concern for me.

Boston should win the East.  If they're healthy, no one in the East is beating them.  Home or Away. 

To me, the real challenge will be in the Finals.  HCA would be more pivotal there.  Do I want them playing in Denver or Phoenix four times? Not really.

[Moranis]

I am not looking forward to the extra high intensity games v top competition with an extra cross country trip with the possibility of an 83rd game — followed by an intense schedule at home - 2 games each v the Cavs and Magic, and another cross country trip to play both LA teams, GSW, and Sac.   All before Christmas (LAL on Christmas Day). 

VERY reasonable possibility that the stretch following the IST Final in Vegas costs them in seeding for the REAL tournament.  They will be exhausted putting high minutes/effort into the IST (not to mention kicking off the stretch with tomorrow’s game v Sixers) and will be running on fumes by Christmas.  Meanwhile, the Sixers play a relaxed schedule with a 4-day break during the IST and 2 v. Wizards, 2 v. pistons and a game each v. Bulls and Hawks.

I expect the Sixers to be at least 2 games ahead of the Celtics by the end of December.  And surely at least one Celtic comes out of this stretch hurt.

I HATE the IST. I believe there is a decent chance that it costs the Celtics a championship.

Really, living up to your avatar there Neurotic Guy...

Isn't it just like one extra game? The scheduling clustering will even out to thinning (a tiny bit) later in the saeson.. right when we want to having guys fresh before the playoffs no?

LOL - guilty as charged.  I won’t defend the over worries but I still believe the Cs will be well behind the Sixers by the end of December (worse if Cs lose tonight), and the IST will take some blame for the ultimate seeding even though we’re just in December of a long season. The extra intensity could lead to some problems physically. But I guess the bottom line for me is that I get nothing out of the tournament and I all I see are potential cost.

Tatum is playing 37MPG right now, which is high, but no one else on the team is cracking 35 (Holiday and Brown are close). They're young guys, so I don't think they should be particularly worn down by the end of the year. Freak injuries are always a worry, but you can't particularly control for them.

My argument wasn’t really about minutes but more about an intense 3-week stretch for the Cs compared to a team like Philly who missed the tournament.  It’s going to be a significant difference IMO when the dust settles on December.  Some of it was already scheduled, but a lot is due to the tournament.  Maybe it balances out somewhat, but it won’t completely and the seeding may come down to a few games for 1 to 5.  Injury possibilities with an extra game and added intensity is a little icing on a bad cake.

Seeding may come down to a few games, but you won't know where you'd want to be seeded until much later.  I mean right now Boston is the 1 seed, Cleveland is 8, and Philly is 4.  Whereas the Bucks are the 3 seed and would have 6 Miami, 2 Orlando.  Miami is tough, but I'd much rather play Orlando than Philly.

Ok, but do you think it’s typically an easier road for the #1 seed or the 4/5 seeds?  And of course this also plays into HCA in the Finals.  Currently, home court appears to be an advantage this year for the Cs.   As I go and jinx tonight’s game.


If I thought there was any redeeming value to the IST I’d be less inclined to feel concerned about wins, seeding, or the added injury risk.  But since it’s valueless to me, it bugs me.

matchup dependent. 1 seeds are typically much better teams than those in the 4/5 range, but we've seen plenty of lower seeds make runs when their talent is better than the seeding (the lakers and heat last year are an easy example). For a team like Boston, I think matchup is more critical than seeding, though I would still try to win every game and not play the seeding game. That can get you into trouble.

[Who]

In European soccer, these in-season tournaments (cups) are used to build a winning mentality. To help young up and coming teams who haven't won before to get more used to pressure environments and succeeding within those environments. Help them succeed in the bigger tournaments (cups and leagues) down the road.

I expect it could serve a similar value for our Celtics.

[Redz]

I am not looking forward to the extra high intensity games v top competition with an extra cross country trip with the possibility of an 83rd game — followed by an intense schedule at home - 2 games each v the Cavs and Magic, and another cross country trip to play both LA teams, GSW, and Sac.   All before Christmas (LAL on Christmas Day). 

VERY reasonable possibility that the stretch following the IST Final in Vegas costs them in seeding for the REAL tournament.  They will be exhausted putting high minutes/effort into the IST (not to mention kicking off the stretch with tomorrow’s game v Sixers) and will be running on fumes by Christmas.  Meanwhile, the Sixers play a relaxed schedule with a 4-day break during the IST and 2 v. Wizards, 2 v. pistons and a game each v. Bulls and Hawks.

I expect the Sixers to be at least 2 games ahead of the Celtics by the end of December.  And surely at least one Celtic comes out of this stretch hurt.

I HATE the IST. I believe there is a decent chance that it costs the Celtics a championship.

Really, living up to your avatar there Neurotic Guy...

Isn't it just like one extra game? The scheduling clustering will even out to thinning (a tiny bit) later in the saeson.. right when we want to having guys fresh before the playoffs no?

LOL - guilty as charged.  I won’t defend the over worries but I still believe the Cs will be well behind the Sixers by the end of December (worse if Cs lose tonight), and the IST will take some blame for the ultimate seeding even though we’re just in December of a long season. The extra intensity could lead to some problems physically. But I guess the bottom line for me is that I get nothing out of the tournament and I all I see are potential cost.

Tatum is playing 37MPG right now, which is high, but no one else on the team is cracking 35 (Holiday and Brown are close). They're young guys, so I don't think they should be particularly worn down by the end of the year. Freak injuries are always a worry, but you can't particularly control for them.

My argument wasn’t really about minutes but more about an intense 3-week stretch for the Cs compared to a team like Philly who missed the tournament.  It’s going to be a significant difference IMO when the dust settles on December.  Some of it was already scheduled, but a lot is due to the tournament.  Maybe it balances out somewhat, but it won’t completely and the seeding may come down to a few games for 1 to 5.  Injury possibilities with an extra game and added intensity is a little icing on a bad cake.

Seeding may come down to a few games, but you won't know where you'd want to be seeded until much later.  I mean right now Boston is the 1 seed, Cleveland is 8, and Philly is 4.  Whereas the Bucks are the 3 seed and would have 6 Miami, 2 Orlando.  Miami is tough, but I'd much rather play Orlando than Philly.

Ok, but do you think it’s typically an easier road for the #1 seed or the 4/5 seeds?  And of course this also plays into HCA in the Finals.  Currently, home court appears to be an advantage this year for the Cs.   As I go and jinx tonight’s game.


If I thought there was any redeeming value to the IST I’d be less inclined to feel concerned about wins, seeding, or the added injury risk.  But since it’s valueless to me, it bugs me.

matchup dependent. 1 seeds are typically much better teams than those in the 4/5 range, but we've seen plenty of lower seeds make runs when their talent is better than the seeding (the lakers and heat last year are an easy example). For a team like Boston, I think matchup is more critical than seeding, though I would still try to win every game and not play the seeding game. That can get you into trouble.

Seeding didn’t make any difference last year.  The Celts gained and lost home court advantage so many times it was hard to keep up with.  There is no one they can’t beat on any court.  Their biggest opponent is their mentality. 

[PAOBoston]

In European soccer, these in-season tournaments (cups) are used to build a winning mentality. To help young up and coming teams who haven't won before to get more used to pressure environments and succeeding within those environments. Help them succeed in the bigger tournaments (cups and leagues) down the road.

I expect it could serve a similar value for our Celtics.

Surprised more people don’t think like this. There is literally money on the line. This team has come up short in big moments how many times now if the posts season? It’s an opportunity to learn how to win during the season. Think players like JT and JB could benefit from it. Also, adding a former champion like Holiday should help as well.