Author Topic: ESPN SPIN: Given the ref scandal was this 22 year drought a good thing?  (Read 27324 times)

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Offline JSD

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On a broader perspective, if ESPN gave unfairly uneven coverage of Spygate in comparison to Donaghy because it has a vendetta against Belichick and a vested interest in protecting the NBA, then wouldn't the following also be true:


1. ESPN would have underreported other embarrassing stories revolving around the NBA such as the Knicks under Isiah, the brawl in Detroit and Kobe's rape trial.

In comparison to "spygate" all of those were underreported besides maybe the Kobe trial. Good point! Why is a rape case against the face of the NBA in the same ballpark of a minor scouting violation? ;)

2. ESPN would have been very sparse in their positive coverage of the Patriots over the past few years.

outside of the first They never got to much love and at times portrayed as Boring

3. Spygate was only a major national story because ESPN made it so/ other media outlets did not make a big deal out of it.

Other media outlets got in on it no doubt (couple tabloids Post, Herald to name a few) but ESPN and/or celticsblog are king of sports media and they set standard.

Offline crownsy

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The Commissioner sent out a league directive, warning teams they would be punished severely if they taped other team's signals.  The Pats received such memo.  The Pats violated such directive.  They lost a first round pick because of it.

I'm not sure why people insist that the Pats didn't do anything wrong.  It's understandable why this was a big story:  the undefeated team, led by a coach that has a tendency to be a bit of a jerk, directly and knowingly violates a directive from the new disciplinarian Commissioner.  The Commissioner thought it was a huge deal, by fining both the team and Belichek and taking away a #1.  I don't blame the media for their reaction (except for Tomase, if he really did print that story without a reliable source).

The Donaghy thing got huge attention at the time.  Since then, though, the FBI hasn't found any involvement from either other refs or the NBA itself.  When allegations have been made (against Bavetta, against Foster), the media has reported it, but without proof, and without NBA action, it's hard for them to justify spending weeks on the same non-story.

The MEMO

"Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game. "

Why not just say:

"Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is strictly prohibited"?

So the ACT is okay. the location wasn't!?

This is not a ""was spygate" cheating?" I already know that answer (absolutely not)

This is a thread about the malice from ESPN toward the Pats and the double standard it showed during the Ref scandal because of their stake.


  The act of videotaping doesn't seem to be the issue, the fact that they might have access to the videotape during the game is the issue.

It was proven they did not have access during the game...

  How did they prove that? Was the person that did the filming physically prevented from coming into contact with anyone else in the organization?

content of tape and limitations of current technology mostly, with a bit of common sense throw in.

I mean, lets break down how this would have to work for what they were taping on the field to matter to that specfic play.

play clock  starts to tick.
at the 30 second mark or so, the teams break the huddle, the definsive cord then gives his hand signals to the mike line backer. lets be ncie and say he gets them in 5 seconds, even though often times it takes multiple attempts to get them in, espcially on the road.

so, pats video guy sees the signals at 25 seconds. in the next 15 seconds (they shut the QB headsets off at 10 seconds) he has to analize the signals (keep in mind most teams swap them between halfs, and have 3-4 people giving them, only one of whom is live. much like a third base coaches fake signals.) and then rely them to the offensive coradinator to rely to the offense.

Thats impossable in 15 seconds. it just doesn't work like that.

now, no doubt the patriots violated a rule, but it amuses me these people that think it was used in the same game. im sure it was studied intently for the next match up, but come off the "OF COURSE BRADY IS GOOD< HE KNOWS WHATS COMING!!! lOLLARS!" crowd is out of thier mind.

also, keep in mind the dude is 60 feet away if your trying to steal his signals during the game, its probley a better plan to just watch him to see if he repeats any like a moron. works for us in softball  ;)
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Offline JSD

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The Commissioner sent out a league directive, warning teams they would be punished severely if they taped other team's signals.  The Pats received such memo.  The Pats violated such directive.  They lost a first round pick because of it.

I'm not sure why people insist that the Pats didn't do anything wrong.  It's understandable why this was a big story:  the undefeated team, led by a coach that has a tendency to be a bit of a jerk, directly and knowingly violates a directive from the new disciplinarian Commissioner.  The Commissioner thought it was a huge deal, by fining both the team and Belichek and taking away a #1.  I don't blame the media for their reaction (except for Tomase, if he really did print that story without a reliable source).

The Donaghy thing got huge attention at the time.  Since then, though, the FBI hasn't found any involvement from either other refs or the NBA itself.  When allegations have been made (against Bavetta, against Foster), the media has reported it, but without proof, and without NBA action, it's hard for them to justify spending weeks on the same non-story.

The MEMO

"Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game. "

Why not just say:

"Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is strictly prohibited"?

So the ACT is okay. the location wasn't!?

This is not a ""was spygate" cheating?" I already know that answer (absolutely not)

This is a thread about the malice from ESPN toward the Pats and the double standard it showed during the Ref scandal because of their stake.


  The act of videotaping doesn't seem to be the issue, the fact that they might have access to the videotape during the game is the issue.

It was proven they did not have access during the game...

  How did they prove that? Was the person that did the filming physically prevented from coming into contact with anyone else in the organization?

I'll have a better source soon coming from the commish.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Hyg9BhqESxU

Offline JSD

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Offline Steve Weinman

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On a broader perspective, if ESPN gave unfairly uneven coverage of Spygate in comparison to Donaghy because it has a vendetta against Belichick and a vested interest in protecting the NBA, then wouldn't the following also be true:


1. ESPN would have underreported other embarrassing stories revolving around the NBA such as the Knicks under Isiah, the brawl in Detroit and Kobe's rape trial.

In comparison to "spygate" all of those were underreported besides maybe the Kobe trial. Good point! Why is a rape case against the face of the NBA in the same ballpark of a minor scouting violation? ;)

2. ESPN would have been very sparse in their positive coverage of the Patriots over the past few years.

outside of the first They never got to much love and at times portrayed as Boring




Simply untrue.  How can you possibly substantiate either of these claims?

The entire 2008 NFL season was one sizable parade of Pats content -- and this is from a neutral observer who actually doesn't mind the Pats.  Yes, a big part of it was devoted to SpyGate, but so was their chase for perfection and the absurd firepower of the offense. 

In the meantime, the brawl in Detroit received no shortage of attention.  It was given more than 45 minutes of a 60-minute SportsCenter program the next morning, and it was the constant topic of intrigue or weeks on end on ESPN -- as well as the subplot that loomed over the 2004-05 season.  ESPN made a point of having Artest on as a guest on the short-lived Quite Frankly with SAS for the sole purpose of talking about the brawl the summer afterwards, and the network and was calling in all manner of guests to help comment on the situation, and it was also the top of all their debate shows for quite some time.

Like most awful teams, the Knicks don't get many national TV appearances these days.  But they've been a constant source of mockery by ESPN's on-air talent and writers (see: Simmons, Bill), and there was no shortage of attention allocated to the sexual harrassment trial last fall.

I fail to see what your complaint is here, Jsaad.

The course of discussion here makes it strike me that this is more about wanting to give your football team the victim's role than anything else.

Again, there are plenty of valid bones to pick with ESPN and the MSM in general.  But the way you're approaching this continues to reinforce my belief that this isn't one of them.

-sw


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Offline JSD

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"The myopic media have chosen to focus solely on the sensationalistic aspects of this case, right from the beginning.

Whether or not this was really a major rules violation that garnered a significant advantage is not the point. THE NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS CHEATED AND ALL THEIR CHAMPIONSHIPS ARE NOW TAINTED. That’s the message that has been sent out, and that which has been pounded repeatedly into the conscious of the American public.

The implication has been that the taping of signals is the golden lamp which when rubbed, automatically ensures victory. They insist that the advantage gained by these tapes is the single most important factor (even if some faint voices say otherwise) in the Patriots success this decade.

Never mind that the stealing of signals has been going on in all sports almost from the beginning. Never mind that other teams have been caught doing the same or worse. Ignore all of that.

Ignore this statement:

    Taping from the sidelines during games, although forbidden, is regarded as a minor violation of the rules.

You know who wrote that?

The one and only Gregg Easterbrook. (On February 3, 2008)

Yeah, the same guy now advocating a lifetime ban of Belichick.

For a “minor violation of the rules.”

Nothing has changed since that day, in fact, the Patriots position has improved, as the notion of the walkthrough video has been dismissed. The Boston Heraldand John Tomase have apologized for putting out this false information. Yet now Easterbrook wants the lifetime ban?

They’ve also shown that just because something has already been reported, it doesn’t mean you can’t write it again and shout from the rooftops that there is a new angle.

One of the prominent figures of this whole saga has been ESPN “investigative reporter” Mike Fish. For someone billed as an investigative reporter, I haven’t seen this guy yet bring something of value to the table. You’d think an investigative reporter would…you know…investigate. He would look into all aspects of a story, uncover new facts, perhaps expand the scope of the story to include other teams and their practices, to see if what the Patriots did was really out of line with what other teams were doing to get an edge.

Nope. He’s been solely focused on the Patriots. He hands in pieces like this, which have absolutely no new information whatsoever.

I’m tempted to dub him Mike Fishwrap, but that would be an insult to paper that is actually used to wrap dead fish.

Ready, Fire, Aim.

This will somehow get blamed on the internet, I’m sure, but this whole episode has consisted of events where reporters and media have shot first and asked questions later. The rush to be first get the news out there and garner attention has overidden everything else, including journalistic standards. Tomasegate is the prime example, but there are others.

Remember in the last few weeks when there was a big rush of OFFENSIVE SIGNALS headlines(That Fish guy again) after Walsh turned over his tapes? Some speculated that this was a new facet of the cheating that could open up the case even more and end up in that eagerly anticipated suspension for Belichick.

    Patriots coach Bill Belichick could be hit with more sanctions in connection with the team’s past videotaping activities.

This was despite the official comment from the league:

    “This is consistent with what the Patriots had admitted they had been doing, consistent with what we already knew,” NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told The Associated Press.

That statement didn’t stop the media from running with the OFFENSIVE SIGNALS storyline. That went on for a few days before dying out when people finally realized that the offensive signals weren’t really of any use.

From Trent Dilfer in Peter King’s MMQB column this week on the news that the league will be instituting coach-to-defensive-captain communication via radio:

    videotaping “will be irrelevant. Now the offense will have no way of stealing signals anymore, because they’ll be done the same way the offense sends in signals — from the coach to a player on the field [through a microphone and speaker].

What that quote is saying is that taping offensive signals in the past was irrelevant - because there are no hand signals to steal.

So besides the fact that the tape were consistent with what the NFL already knew, it’s also come out that the taping of offensive signals was pretty much of no value.

We’ve had columnists and talking heads insinuate that there really was a tape of the Rams walkthrough, but that the Patriots “made it go away.” Or, as this guy asserts, they simply paid off Walsh:

    For all we know, Walsh may have had more information and more [dang]ing evidence of the Patriots and their use of the infamous practice and signal tapes, but money has a way of making everything better. Again, no one, but Walsh and a few people with the New England franchise, will ever know the truth.

If the Patriots paid Walsh to destroy the tape, couldn’t they just have slipped him a few more bucks just to shut up all together? These types of unsubstantiated claims and assertions have been just far too common during this whole time.

Here’s one more example, from just last night.

    DID PATS TAPE RAMS’ SIGNALS DURING 2001 SEASON?
    Posted by Mike Florio on May 19, 2008, 9:45 p.m. EDT

    One issue that has been overlooked by many/most/all of the media, and of which a reader has reminded us recently, is the question of whether the Patriots used their videotaping system on the St. Louis Rams when the two teams met in the 2001 regular season, only a couple of months before Super Bowl XXXVI.

    Even though we now know that the Pats didn’t videotape the Rams’ walk-through prior to the game, it doesn’t mean that there was no cheating on the biggest stage in sports.

    It’s unclear whether the question has been asked, but it sure doesn’t appear to us that the question has been answered. And it’s a simple question — did the videotaping of defensive coaching signals include the November 18 prime-time game between the two teams, which the Rams won, 24-17?

Another prime example of “Let’s throw something out there without making any effort to check into it at all.”

From Walsh’s New York Times sitdown:

    Q. The regular-season game against the Rams in 2001, what were your duties?

    A. I remember before the game, our video room was located right next to the visitor’s locker room. Even though the locker room doors were closed, myself and Pepper Johnson were outside the video room right before the game. And we were able to hear, through the doors, Mike Martz giving his pre-game speech to the team. Trying to incite them about, you know, it was Sunday night football. How good they were. And how we were just another A.F.C. team.

    They won by a touchdown, so I guess it worked.

    Q. And what did you do during the game?

    A. Filmed, to the best of my recollection. I can’t specifically say I remember the details of what I filmed.

Conveniently, Walsh doesn’t “remember the details.” He seems to remember everything else about that season, including meaningless preseason games, but he doesn’t remember this game and what he was doing. (Though he remembers the pregame incident from that same game.) If he DID film that game, don’t you think he would’ve said so directly, rather than vaguely dodging the question by saying he must’ve filmed, but doesn’t remember the details?

That tells me he didn’t film it. In fact, if he did, don’t you think that would’ve been one of the tapes he would’ve taken before he left the organization, given the significance of that game later on down the line?

This tells me two things…one, Florio truly was just “throwing it out there” - shooting before aiming, a problem throughout this entire episode - and two, the more you look into it, how much of anything Walsh says can you really believe?

That hasn’t stopped the media from breathlessly taking his words and running with them.

They’ve behaved with the subtlty of a pack of screaming jackals.

You can’t turn around these days without someone howling about the integrity of the game, about tainted championships, about lifetime suspensions.

They’ll howl at whatever camera, microphone or keyboard is in front of them. Attempts to reason with them go about as well as a carcass trying to talk its way out of getting torn to shreds by the pack.

These are the same ones who were (and are) screaming about “running up the score” and “sportsmanship” and even Belichick’s postgame handshakes.

They haven’t even bothered to hide their agendas

Everyone with an axe to grind against the New England Patriots and Bill Belichick has taken full advantage of the opportunity to kick them while they’re down. They don’t even try to hide why they’re doing it. Here’s a few of the key players:

Matt Walsh - Disgruntled ex-Patriots employee who was fired from his job for recording conversations with his superiors. ‘Nuff said

Arlen Specter- Disgruntled Eagles fan, who is also trying to strongarm the NFL into granting more favorable terms to Comcast, one of his key campaign contributors. He apparently believes everything he hears from Mark Schlereth on ESPN and what he reads in the New York Times, which may not be such a great idea. (See below.)

Greg Bishop, New York Times - You can detect a clear pattern in his stories. Let’s see, a puff piece on Charley Casserly in April leads to a piece in May with a “longtime N.F.L. team executive.” Think they’re not one and the same?

Another puff piece on Michael Levy in March leads to the Times getting the 8 Tapes from Walsh before the NFL did and also an exclusive interview with Matt Walsh.

Why in the world would the New York Times write a piece on Drew Bledsoe? (March 10) Well, on February 22nd, Bishop got a “a former Patriots player” to talk about the Patriots taping signals as far back as 2000. Is it too much of a stretch to consider that Bishop wrote the article on Bledsoe’s wine and coffee business ventures as payola for the info in the Feb 22nd article?

Mark Schlereth, ESPN - Prior to the Patriots, his Denver Broncos were considered a mini dynasty of their own. Now, relegated to a footnote Schlereth has tried to discredit the Patriots at every turn. He insists that the team used the filmed signals during the same games, something that not only defies logic, (How could the team edit all that raw footage into a usable video AND decipher the signals within the same game?) but that even Walsh has denied.

Schlereth has convienently not addressed the fact that the Broncos circumvented the salary cap so they could pay John Elway and Terrell Davis $29 million in deferred payments. This allowed them to stock their team and win those two Super Bowls. I kind of think this is worse than the taping of signals…

There’s plenty more out there. Just look at any of the key figures and think about what their ties to the stories are or what their history with the Patriots is…

Tomasegate gave new life to the story that should have been put to bed.

The same media types who are shaking their heads at John Tomase for his handling of the Rams walkthrough video story were the first ones to gleefully run with his story when it came out. The walkthrough video story dominated ESPN’s Bottom Line and NFL Network’s ticker as well. Columnists and reporters around the country lined up for a second shot at the team and coach, and this has continued for three and a half months.

Had Tomase not published his story, perhaps this thing would be a dead issue by now. Instead, the witch-hunt has intensified, and even though the Tomase story has been retracted and an apology issued, the Spygate hysterics are back in full swing.

Tomase’s story is the single most egregious part of this entire matter, and he has skated, scot-free. As Patriots Daily pointed out today, Tomase may be accountable for his actions, but he hasn’t yet been held to account.

Rather than doing their jobs the way they’ve been trained, the media have taken as gospel the words of someone whose only true value was fueling the fire. To the media, everything is all about “advancing the story” - Walsh and Tomase were supposedly doing this, yet we see after the fact that they didn’t have anything new to offer.

A Real Reason for the Hate is Lack of Access

Even though they’ll dismiss this notion out of hand, this whole episode boils down to access. Can you sit there and realistically say that had it been Tony Dungy, Jon Gruden or Herman Edwards that did this that the stories and commentary would be as nasty and personal? If Bill Belichick sat down with the likes of Peter King on a weekly basis and invited them to watch him mow his lawn like Brett Favre, how do you think this would’ve gone?

You can almost hear the excuses that would’ve been made had these ones offered the same explanations that Belichick has offered.

“Dungy’s got a such a strong moral fiber, he wouldn’t have done this unless he was firmly convinced his interpretation of the rules was correct.”

“Herm just wants to win so badly, ‘You play to win the game’ - that’s what he always says. This is just a reflection of that.”

“Jon gets up at 3:30am every day to pour his soul into the preparation of his team, the taping and analysis of the signals just shows how obsessed he is with getting every detail just right.”

With Belichick, it’s because he is a cheater. All because he doesn’t “play the game” of keeping the media happy and well supplied with snappy quotes.

The actual accomplishments of the players and team are now dismissed.

Regardless of perceived advantage that the filmed signals would’ve provided, the players on the field had to make plays in order for the Patriots to win their championships. They had to make key stops, they had to catch the ball, run through the hole, or knock the offensive lineman aside to get to the quarterback. Nothing gained through film work could possibly help the players on the field do these things.

Knowing the defensive signals didn’t help Ty Law pick off Peyton Manning in the playoffs. It didn’t help Rodney Harrison seal the Super Bowl against Specter’s Eagles with a pick.

This is perhaps the saddest aspect of the whole affair. The accomplishments of such talented players have been muddied because of how the scandal has been blown out of proportion. Sure, Belichick and the Patriots do deserve a share of the blame because they broke the rules and started this whole mess, but the media has taken this event and taken it entirely too far.

Soon they will move on like nothing happened

At some point, another big scandal will erupt in the world of sports. The sports media’s attention will shift to that, leaving this episode in the past, to be revisited whenever convenient. (Especially if the Patriots roar out of the gate next season, or perhaps even more so, if they struggle.) To be sure, this isn’t going away completely, but it will fade into the background somewhat, but the damage will be permanently done in its wake.

It all added up to the The Most Miserable 18-1 Season in History but it clearly hasn’t stopped there.

The amount of coverage given this scandal has been nothing short of overwhelming. The average fan trying to follow this story could find himself hopelessly lost in the shouting, conjecture and speculation. Unfortuately, responsible reporting has not prevailed at all in this case, and reason is a rare commodity among this crowd.

Keep in mind that most of these same reporters and outlets were silent during the whole steroid era in baseball - even though most of them had a pretty good idea of what was going on. Is the outcry over this story merely these same ones overcompensating for their silence on steroids? Or is it part of our society’s macabre habit of turning on and tearing down our heroes after we’ve built them up?

Whatever the reason, the stench from all of this mess is going to take a long time to wear off."

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/category/bsmw-original-column

Posted by Bruce in BSMW Original Column, Media News, Noteworthy | 1:30 pm
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 03:11:50 PM by Jsaad »

Offline fairweatherfan

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MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT

Wow, if people are still trying to put a CelticsBlog HOF together, I'd like to nominate this post for the Legendarily Long Post category.

I appreciate your passion Jsaad, but I think your feelings of persecution are a bit misplaced.  The Pats story got more ink because:

1. The NFL is a more popular league than the NBA.
    1a. The NFL has far fewer games (less content) than the NBA, meaning
        the media needs more outside content to fill airtime.

2. The Patriots clearly broke the rules to some degree or another (to what degree, and what advantage was gained, is a matter of great debate).

3. Spygate was directly relevant to past Super Bowl championships (again, no one knows to what degree, if at all, but the connection was there), and a team that was both historically dominant and disliked by a large number of fans - Donaghy's impact on games was uncertain, on championships even more so.  Fans root for and against teams, less so with refs, meaning the Patriots story is more relevant and therefore more followed by fans.

I really think that's all there was to it - if anything, I think the NBA gets a harder rap among fans than the NFL.  Compare the reaction to recent string of NFL arrests to the NBA's player arrest problem earlier in the decade - nobody looks down on the NFL, but the NBA was "a league of thugs and gangsters".

Offline BballTim

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  How did they prove that? Was the person that did the filming physically prevented from coming into contact with anyone else in the organization?

content of tape and limitations of current technology mostly, with a bit of common sense throw in.

I mean, lets break down how this would have to work for what they were taping on the field to matter to that specfic play.

play clock  starts to tick.
at the 30 second mark or so, the teams break the huddle, the definsive cord then gives his hand signals to the mike line backer. lets be ncie and say he gets them in 5 seconds, even though often times it takes multiple attempts to get them in, espcially on the road.

so, pats video guy sees the signals at 25 seconds. in the next 15 seconds (they shut the QB headsets off at 10 seconds) he has to analize the signals (keep in mind most teams swap them between halfs, and have 3-4 people giving them, only one of whom is live. much like a third base coaches fake signals.) and then rely them to the offensive coradinator to rely to the offense.

Thats impossable in 15 seconds. it just doesn't work like that.


  The video guys would review the signals and the play that was run until he figured out the pattern. He'd send the pattern to someone who would decode the signals in real time (just like the linebacker does). I'm not saying that the Pats were doing this, just that if a team was hellbent on doing this it wouldn't be that hard. It's just stealing signals that are simple enough for a player to decode. People make it sound like the mental equivalent of learning to speak Navajo in a day.
 

 

Offline crownsy

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  How did they prove that? Was the person that did the filming physically prevented from coming into contact with anyone else in the organization?

content of tape and limitations of current technology mostly, with a bit of common sense throw in.

I mean, lets break down how this would have to work for what they were taping on the field to matter to that specfic play.

play clock  starts to tick.
at the 30 second mark or so, the teams break the huddle, the definsive cord then gives his hand signals to the mike line backer. lets be ncie and say he gets them in 5 seconds, even though often times it takes multiple attempts to get them in, espcially on the road.

so, pats video guy sees the signals at 25 seconds. in the next 15 seconds (they shut the QB headsets off at 10 seconds) he has to analize the signals (keep in mind most teams swap them between halfs, and have 3-4 people giving them, only one of whom is live. much like a third base coaches fake signals.) and then rely them to the offensive coradinator to rely to the offense.

Thats impossable in 15 seconds. it just doesn't work like that.


  The video guys would review the signals and the play that was run until he figured out the pattern. He'd send the pattern to someone who would decode the signals in real time (just like the linebacker does). I'm not saying that the Pats were doing this, just that if a team was hellbent on doing this it wouldn't be that hard. It's just stealing signals that are simple enough for a player to decode. People make it sound like the mental equivalent of learning to speak Navajo in a day.
 

 

by that logic, you could do that with the fox broadcast and a pen and paper.

again, its not like the guy who is out there is unaware that the every other team is trying to steal his signals. thats why your allowed to tape from the end zone and high on the 50. the pats clearly violated the rule that you cant have a camera man on the sidelines, no question, and were justifiably punished for it, but the defensive coordinators are well aware there taped, their not morons.

thats why they have up to 4 guys giving the signals and have a ton of decoys. as i said, its no diffrent thant a third base coach.
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