Way Off Topic - Legal/Ethical Point

[boscel33]

I have a really close friend who recently was married.  She is very proud of her husband and his career as an attorney.

Personally, I think he's a weasel lawyer, LOL.

There have been a couple of posts, congratulating him on getting his multiple offender DWI cases tossed.  This just rubs me the wrong way!  I'd like to say something, but don't want to cause friction.  As I said, she's been a friend for many years as has her family.

[dang], though, the last one, the dude was on multiple probations as well. 

There's just something wrong there....

That's it, sorry for taking the board down a rabbit hole, just needed to vent a bit!

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

The justice system needs defense attorneys. Sometimes this means that people end up specializing in defending low life criminals.

I think it's tough to applaud the Cochrans and Kardashians of the world, especially if they are arrogantly boasting of their success. These attorneys might view it as a personal challenge to defend a bad seed. Unfortunately, many can see that they are really just successful in making the world a more dangerous place.

I would be upset as well, and probably wouldn't want anything to do with your friend's husband. The boasting would be the major turn off for me.

[Roy H.]

Defense attorneys aren't weasels as a group.  They're a necessary cog in the justice system.

Think about it:  why are his clients getting off?  Is it because the cases against those clients weren't strong?  Because people were actually innocent?  Because the police or crime labs didn't do their jobs properly?  Because the prosecutors aren't holding people accountable?  And, if somebody got off despite being on probation, that's doubly true, as PVs are generally at a lower standard (preponderance vs. beyond reasonable doubt). 

Our society *needs* great defense attorneys.  Yes, usually their clients are guilty, and often they'll re-offend.  But, if the police, labs and prosecutors did their jobs, there would probably be a conviction.  Our government needs to be accountable not to cut corners.  And, in the case of the falsely accused, somebody needs to be there to defend them.

There are thousands of people who have been falsely convicted.  I can't imagine how much worse that would be if there weren't defense attorneys fighting for them.  If the system had even an iota of prosecutorial discretion, maybe the need would be less.  But, there have been way too many examples of prosecutors charging people just because they could, rather than because that's where the evidence undoubtedly pointed.  From experience, they tend not to care if the defendant is able to make bail, or about how much attorneys fees are costing them, or how many people they're harming.  If they can charge, they often do, regardless of the probability of actual innocence.  Hell, I've seen prosecutors who absolutely knew somebody was legally innocent who have said "let the jury decide".  Pontius Pilate shouldn't be a role model.

I mean, if you're genuinely curious about his perspective, ask him.  But, if you just want to be confrontational, I'd keep the opinion to yourself.  It serves no purpose, and honestly, you might be in the wrong regarding the ethics of this.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Defense attorneys aren't weasels as a group.  They're a necessary cog in the justice system.

Think about it:  why are his clients getting off?  Is it because the cases against those clients weren't strong?  Because people were actually innocent?  Because the police or crime labs didn't do their jobs properly?  Because the prosecutors aren't holding people accountable? 

Our society *needs* great defense attorneys.  Yes, usually their clients are guilty, and often they'll re-offend.  But, if the police, labs and prosecutors did their jobs, there would probably be a conviction.  Our government needs to be accountable not to cut corners.  And, in the case of the falsely accused, somebody needs to be there to defend them.

There are thousands of people who have been falsely convicted.  I can't imagine how much worse that would be if there weren't defense attorneys fighting for them.

I mean, if you're genuinely curious about his perspective, ask him.  But, if you just want to be confrontational, I'd keep the opinion to yourself.  It serves no purpose, and honestly, you might be in the wrong regarding the ethics of this.

Roy, I don't think he's attacking the profession. I think he's upset that he is bragging (on social media- yuck) about "getting his multiple offender DWI cases tossed". I think the bragging part may demonstrate a difference in values. If I got OJ off, I think I'd tuck my tail between my legs, take my money, and hide in Fiji for a bit. Others might want to put their face on a billboard shaking OJ's hand.

[Roy H.]

Defense attorneys aren't weasels as a group.  They're a necessary cog in the justice system.

Think about it:  why are his clients getting off?  Is it because the cases against those clients weren't strong?  Because people were actually innocent?  Because the police or crime labs didn't do their jobs properly?  Because the prosecutors aren't holding people accountable? 

Our society *needs* great defense attorneys.  Yes, usually their clients are guilty, and often they'll re-offend.  But, if the police, labs and prosecutors did their jobs, there would probably be a conviction.  Our government needs to be accountable not to cut corners.  And, in the case of the falsely accused, somebody needs to be there to defend them.

There are thousands of people who have been falsely convicted.  I can't imagine how much worse that would be if there weren't defense attorneys fighting for them.

I mean, if you're genuinely curious about his perspective, ask him.  But, if you just want to be confrontational, I'd keep the opinion to yourself.  It serves no purpose, and honestly, you might be in the wrong regarding the ethics of this.

Roy, I don't think he's attacking the profession. I think he's upset that he is bragging (on social media- yuck) about "getting his multiple offender DWI cases tossed". I think the bragging part may demonstrate a difference in values. If I got OJ off, I think I'd tuck my tail between my legs, take my money, and hide in Fiji for a bit. Others might want to put their face on a billboard shaking OJ's hand.

I read it as other people were making posts ("there have been a couple of posts, congratulating him on getting his multiple offender DWI cases tossed") and his girlfriend was proud of him.  I missed any reference to he himself bragging.

I do agree that it can look bad if attorneys brag about their successes, but it's part of good marketing.  Probably the number one question I was asked was some version of "what's your win / loss record".  I never tended to answer that question, because I think I'm ethically barred from doing so.  We're not supposed to give a client the impression that a particular result is guaranteed.  But, publicizing your wins through social media?  That can attract attention.  And, is it any different than prosecutors doing interviews with the local news after a guilty verdict?

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Defense attorneys aren't weasels as a group.  They're a necessary cog in the justice system.

Think about it:  why are his clients getting off?  Is it because the cases against those clients weren't strong?  Because people were actually innocent?  Because the police or crime labs didn't do their jobs properly?  Because the prosecutors aren't holding people accountable? 

Our society *needs* great defense attorneys.  Yes, usually their clients are guilty, and often they'll re-offend.  But, if the police, labs and prosecutors did their jobs, there would probably be a conviction.  Our government needs to be accountable not to cut corners.  And, in the case of the falsely accused, somebody needs to be there to defend them.

There are thousands of people who have been falsely convicted.  I can't imagine how much worse that would be if there weren't defense attorneys fighting for them.

I mean, if you're genuinely curious about his perspective, ask him.  But, if you just want to be confrontational, I'd keep the opinion to yourself.  It serves no purpose, and honestly, you might be in the wrong regarding the ethics of this.

Roy, I don't think he's attacking the profession. I think he's upset that he is bragging (on social media- yuck) about "getting his multiple offender DWI cases tossed". I think the bragging part may demonstrate a difference in values. If I got OJ off, I think I'd tuck my tail between my legs, take my money, and hide in Fiji for a bit. Others might want to put their face on a billboard shaking OJ's hand.

I read it as other people were making posts ("there have been a couple of posts, congratulating him on getting his multiple offender DWI cases tossed") and his girlfriend was proud of him.  I missed any reference to he himself bragging.

I do agree that it can look bad if attorneys brag about their successes, but it's part of good marketing.  Probably the number one question I was asked was some version of "what's your win / loss record".  I never tended to answer that question, because I think I'm ethically barred from doing so.  We're not supposed to give a client the impression that a particular result is guaranteed.  But, publicizing your wins through social media?  That can attract attention.  And, is it any different than prosecutors doing interviews with the local news after a guilty verdict?

I think if I was a defense attorney, I'd ask that person to take down that post, even though it was in support of me. From where I sit, a client ducking multiple OWI convictions does not seem right. That being said, many around me drive drunk all the time and do not feel that it is a big deal.

Money and marketing vs. ethics. If promoting such a case is the only way to get new clients, then I'd say the attorney is in a tough spot. Better Call Saul covers this dilemma, and Saul often looks like he's in the wrong.

I think your question comes down to the nature of the crime and the way the trial proceeded. OJ getting off on a technicality is certainly nothing to brag about. A person wrongly convicted? Brag away.

I would take it on a case by case basis. I'm sure there are attorneys out there that know that they were standing in the way of actual justice. Are we to believe that OJ's defense actually believed that he was innocent and was merely framed by a racist cop? I think this is far fetched.

If a prosecutor believes that the street is safer because a murderer/rapist has been put away, they should market this.

I think it comes down to perception and the court of public opinion for marketing. Just because an attorney uses legal kung fu does not infer justice has been served.

[Neurotic Guy]

It could be that people with certain personality tendencies are drawn  to certain professions. I think it’s mostly about who you are and the way you approach your profession — which could be with humility and ethical practice or self-promotion and borderline ethics - regardless of the profession.

My dad was a politician for the last 35 years of his life - and was as honest and ethical a person as you could find.  He was also gregarious and hard-working and a touch on the egotistical side.  Politics was a match for him even though the stereotype for a politician is shady and phony and unethical.   You bring yourself to your work and can be an honorable bookie or a dishonorable priest. 

To the OP’s question - unless there is a reason that is more than his personality rubs you the wrong way, I’d suggest you decide to say something only if you are OK with creating bad feelings between you and your friend.  If her husband is really a rotten guy something will eventually happen to expose him.