Author Topic: Red Sox 2022  (Read 10431 times)

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Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #120 on: August 02, 2022, 11:07:42 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I don't get it. What is the purpose of acquiring Pham? I get the Hosmer move, he's basically free, and I kind of get the Vasquez move for saving money, but what's the benefit of getting Pham?
Bloom seems to want to straddle the fence. Make moves to add prospects, save money and free up money for next year, but since they are only 3 games from the playoffs, bring in people that if everything goes 100% right could help a playoff run. Maybe Pham is insurance for if Kiki is out very long term or if JBJ goes into one of his famous, long "I can't even hit a stationary ball off of a tee right now" funks.


Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #121 on: August 03, 2022, 06:06:12 AM »

Offline JBcat

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I don't get it. What is the purpose of acquiring Pham? I get the Hosmer move, he's basically free, and I kind of get the Vasquez move for saving money, but what's the benefit of getting Pham?
Bloom seems to want to straddle the fence. Make moves to add prospects, save money and free up money for next year, but since they are only 3 games from the playoffs, bring in people that if everything goes 100% right could help a playoff run. Maybe Pham is insurance for if Kiki is out very long term or if JBJ goes into one of his famous, long "I can't even hit a stationary ball off of a tee right now" funks.

K Hernandez likely won’t be back until sometime in September, and with Resnyder recently hurt (and playing well), we could use a right handed OF. They got Pham almost for free for a player to be named later sent out (usually never anyone of consequence). So why not.

We desperately needed help at 1B in the short term, and getting an adequate 1B in Hosmer is an upgrade to what we have now (and allows Casas to be ready at his own pace). The Padres are also paying all of his salary, and while losing Groome who is looking as a 5th starter at most, we gained 2 interesting prospects in the lower minors.  I’d say that’s a savvy move.

Losing Vasquez is a bit of a head scratcher, though the McGuire kid they got in the Diekman trade is a former first round pick and a better defender than Vasquez, though not as good offensively. That is a net loss for now it seems. We have McGuire  under cheap team control over the next few years, so maybe his offense will improve like it did with Vasquez at that age. Also the Sox have 2 interesting catching prospects in Triple A they might want to give a chance. Lastly in this deal they got 2 prospects in the upper minors, with at least 1 of them might be able to help this season.

We have been playing horrible the last month or so, but a large part of that is because of injuries. Just won 2 against the Astros, and 2 games back into wild card with 58 games left. Get some guys back healthy, and we could make a playoff run, while at the same time helping our future a little more with these moves.


Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #122 on: August 04, 2022, 11:58:46 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I was just looking more deeply into Hosmer's stat splits.  For his career, he is much better against righties.

Quote
Hosmer Career:
              AVG      OBP       SLG     OPS
vs. L        0.254   0.300   0.369   0.669
vs. R        0.288   0.353   0.458   0.811


I wonder if we will still see Dalbec against lefties?  He does have a career 0.853 OPS against lefties so put that together with Hosmer's 0.811 OPS against righties and that is pretty solid.  Plus it keeps Dalbec in the mix which I think is a good thing.

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #123 on: August 04, 2022, 12:15:08 PM »

Offline JBcat

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I was just looking more deeply into Hosmer's stat splits.  For his career, he is much better against righties.

Quote
Hosmer Career:
              AVG      OBP       SLG     OPS
vs. L        0.254   0.300   0.369   0.669
vs. R        0.288   0.353   0.458   0.811


I wonder if we will still see Dalbec against lefties?  He does have a career 0.853 OPS against lefties so put that together with Hosmer's 0.811 OPS against righties and that is pretty solid.  Plus it keeps Dalbec in the mix which I think is a good thing.

I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the plan. Also JD has been in a major slump, and Dalbec has actually been hitting better than JD of late. I’d like to see giving JD a few days off to just work in the cage and get away from the game like they do for players sometimes.

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #124 on: August 04, 2022, 01:21:07 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I was just looking more deeply into Hosmer's stat splits.  For his career, he is much better against righties.

Quote
Hosmer Career:
              AVG      OBP       SLG     OPS
vs. L        0.254   0.300   0.369   0.669
vs. R        0.288   0.353   0.458   0.811


I wonder if we will still see Dalbec against lefties?  He does have a career 0.853 OPS against lefties so put that together with Hosmer's 0.811 OPS against righties and that is pretty solid.  Plus it keeps Dalbec in the mix which I think is a good thing.

I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the plan. Also JD has been in a major slump, and Dalbec has actually been hitting better than JD of late. I’d like to see giving JD a few days off to just work in the cage and get away from the game like they do for players sometimes.

If the Red Sox could get a combined OPS of say 0.800 out of first base, that would be 4th in the American League.  The Yankees are currently tops with 0.893 out of 1B.  The Sox are currently 13th at 0.660.

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #125 on: August 04, 2022, 01:36:26 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Welp, the Renfroe for JBJ trade is officially hot garbage.  JBJ was designated for assignment today.


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Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #126 on: August 04, 2022, 02:13:25 PM »

Offline Atzar

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Welp, the Renfroe for JBJ trade is officially hot garbage.  JBJ was designated for assignment today.

That one didn't even make a lot of sense at the time.  JBJ had a historically bad offensive season with the Brewers last year, so it's not like he gave us anything we shouldn't have seen coming. 

The book isn't closed on that trade yet given that the two minor-leaguers we received are just in Portland at this point, but it was definitely an ugly move where the current squad is concerned.  And really, the prospects aren't too interesting either... Binelas looks like another Dalbec at best, and Hamilton is probably a late inning pinch-runner type - useful on the right bench but certainly not a guy where you're counting the days until he gets the call up. 
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 02:44:09 PM by Atzar »

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #127 on: August 04, 2022, 02:43:06 PM »

Offline JBcat

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Welp, the Renfroe for JBJ trade is officially hot garbage.  JBJ was designated for assignment today.

That one didn't even make a lot of sense at the time.  JBJ had a historically bad offensive season with the Brewers last year, so it's not like he gave us anything we shouldn't have seen coming. 

The book isn't closed on that trade yet given that the two minor-leaguers we received are just in Portland at this point, but it was definitely an ugly move where the current squad is concerned.  And really, the prospects aren't too interesting either... Binelas looks like another Dalbec at best, and Hamilton is probably a late inning pinch-runner type - useful on the bright bench but certainly not a guy where you're counting the days until he gets the call up.

Yeah I’m with you. If K Hernandez stayed healthy and performed like he did late last year, JBJ would have received less at bats more like a 4th OF, but he was exposed too much. We could just signed Pham in the offseason to strengthen our OF.

The book isn’t closed yet on those 2 prospects, but it’s not looking promising.

Saying that I was fine with selling high on Renfroe. Besides his strong arm he is a weak defender, his OBP is .299, has more homers than walks, more k’s than hits, is pretty much an average player with his salary going up this season. Though the move we made wasn’t the answer. The signing of Suzuki wouldn’t have been either as he’s been disappointing.

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #128 on: August 04, 2022, 02:47:01 PM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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All of the noise about Bloom being a failure is making me want to double down on my support for his vision. I want the Sox to build a sustainable product. Dombrowski ended up winning, but I like Bloom's approach more. Develop a core of young talent, then go spend crazy money to fill in the roster.

Let desperate cities (LAD, SD) overspend in creating expensive super teams. Red Sox ownership has taken on a ton of criticism despite 4 championships since 04. One of these is their willingness to switch directions (Theo to Cherrington to Dombrowski and now to Bloom) quickly. I'd like to see them maintain their plan, build the farm system, graduate some players, then spend money on big names. Start with Devers.

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #129 on: August 04, 2022, 03:02:53 PM »

Offline Atzar

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For the record, I wasn't calling Bloom a failure for the Renfroe trade.  I generally think GMs need to be assessed over a period of several years rather than as a result of a single deal, especially given that prospect-centric returns might take a decade to fully sort out the math on whether it was "worth it" or not.  I've been displeased with some of the deals he has made and I wasn't a fan of his strategy at the deadline, but he also deserves a lot of credit for our surprise ALCS run from last year and I'm optimistic regarding the draft we just had.

We'll see where he ends up.  I'm not entrenched in either camp as of this moment, and I expect that it'll be a couple of years before that changes.

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #130 on: August 04, 2022, 04:16:23 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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It seems in baseball, there are a lot of minor deals that happen.  I never thought that the Renfroe for JBJ + Prospects was a good deal.  But it is pretty minor in the big scheme of things.  We'll see if either of these prospects amount to anything or if they are used in a trade.  I also don't like trading Vazquez but more out of fan sentimentality than baseball reasons.  We traded Vazquez but brought in McGuire and I don't think this is going to end up moving any needles in either direction.  Vazquez is a little better hitter and McGuire has a better arm.  I think there will be little bit of team remorse for trading  Vazquez, at least for bit (they may already be over that).

On the plus side, I think scooping up Hosmer was brilliant.  Fills a need with a decent player for pretty much no cost.  And I think Pham is a good add.  Gives us some more pop in the outfield which we desperately need.  No more having to play Arroyo or Cordero in RF just to upgrade JBJ's bat.

Overall, Bloom bought himself time by getting the team to the ACLS last season.  And I think there is still a good chance we make the playoffs this season.  The issue is the health of our pitching.  For July, we started more AAA pitchers than we did big leaguers.  That is the issue.  We are 3rd in the AL in runs scored and 5th in OPS.  That is clearly not the problem.  When our pitchers were healthy, we were the best team in the league for a whole month.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 04:22:53 PM by Vermont Green »

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #131 on: August 04, 2022, 05:19:19 PM »

Offline BMark

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The Phillies and Dombrowski had some interest in JBJ at this past trade deadline:

https://www.audacy.com/weei/sports/red-sox/phillies-reportedly-have-interest-in-jackie-bradley-jr

Phillies must have expressed this interest to Bloom, so I don't understand why JBJ was not traded.  Overall it appears that the Red Sox are taking the Rays approach of developing players, playing them for a few years and trading them when they are up for a huge raise.


Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #132 on: August 04, 2022, 05:48:48 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Welp, the Renfroe for JBJ trade is officially hot garbage.  JBJ was designated for assignment today.

That was a bad trade to begin with—Renfroe was a solid player, whereas Bradley was a one-trick pony (defense), and it's unlikely the prospects amount to much.

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Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #133 on: August 04, 2022, 05:51:59 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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All of the noise about Bloom being a failure is making me want to double down on my support for his vision. I want the Sox to build a sustainable product. Dombrowski ended up winning, but I like Bloom's approach more. Develop a core of young talent, then go spend crazy money to fill in the roster.

Let desperate cities (LAD, SD) overspend in creating expensive super teams. Red Sox ownership has taken on a ton of criticism despite 4 championships since 04. One of these is their willingness to switch directions (Theo to Cherrington to Dombrowski and now to Bloom) quickly. I'd like to see them maintain their plan, build the farm system, graduate some players, then spend money on big names. Start with Devers.

I don't think the Dodgers are desperate. They've made 3 World Series in the last 5 years, winning 1, consistently have one of the biggest payrolls (because they can afford it) and consistently have one of the best farm systems. And unlike the neighboring Angels, the Dodgers generally make wise free-agent acquisitions. The Dodgers are a well-financed, well-oiled machine—basically what the Sox should be.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: Red Sox 2022
« Reply #134 on: August 04, 2022, 07:10:57 PM »

Offline MarcusSmartFanClub

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All of the noise about Bloom being a failure is making me want to double down on my support for his vision. I want the Sox to build a sustainable product. Dombrowski ended up winning, but I like Bloom's approach more. Develop a core of young talent, then go spend crazy money to fill in the roster.

Let desperate cities (LAD, SD) overspend in creating expensive super teams. Red Sox ownership has taken on a ton of criticism despite 4 championships since 04. One of these is their willingness to switch directions (Theo to Cherrington to Dombrowski and now to Bloom) quickly. I'd like to see them maintain their plan, build the farm system, graduate some players, then spend money on big names. Start with Devers.

I don't think the Dodgers are desperate. They've made 3 World Series in the last 5 years, winning 1, consistently have one of the biggest payrolls (because they can afford it) and consistently have one of the best farm systems. And unlike the neighboring Angels, the Dodgers generally make wise free-agent acquisitions. The Dodgers are a well-financed, well-oiled machine—basically what the Sox should be.

I don't think the LAD are currently desperate. They won their first WS in 2020 since Kirk Gibson, so I was thinking that more teams were "desperate" to finally get a WS ring. The Red Sox have the luxury of 4 recent rings, which should give ownership more space to build a sustainably built model.

People use to criticize the Yankees for their big spending, but many of their core players from the late 90's were homegrown. They've had one GM since then (for right or wrong) that has been able to rebuild its farm system while hosting a competitive product, though I'm sure most Yankees fans would certainly want more than one  ring since 2000.

I'm not saying that Bloom has executed this plan perfectly. I just like the plan for long term success. I didn't think Dombrowski's approach was best for long term success.