Author Topic: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose  (Read 7076 times)

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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2019, 10:44:10 PM »

Offline ozgod

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Bit late to be slitting wrists IMO...I think it's been a fait accompli for a while that we will finish 4 or 5, and play either Philly or more likely Indiana in the first round. Rather than making drastic changes we need to make sure everyone is playing well, knows their roles and is mentally ready for the playoffs.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2019, 10:55:19 PM »

Offline gpap

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Bit late to be slitting wrists IMO...I think it's been a fait accompli for a while that we will finish 4 or 5, and play either Philly or more likely Indiana in the first round. Rather than making drastic changes we need to make sure everyone is playing well, knows their roles and is mentally ready for the playoffs.

Exactly.

I can see guys like Ky and Horford possibly not playing the last two games of the season to rest up.

But until then, it's got to be full pedal to the metal. We are approaching the end of March, not the beginning of October. We need our best players out there competing and hopefully securing at least the 4th seed so we can have HCA (as we are not a great road team.)

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2019, 10:58:21 PM »

Offline gpap

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The point of sitting Kyrie is to let the other guys feel like the man and not have the crutch of Kyrie saving them.

Pacers have a brutal schedule.

I wouldn't even play Kyrie or Horford tomorrow vs Philly. Do not give them any confidence and keeping those two out wouldnt give them anything on video to gameplan against.

We arent dropping past the 5th seed. Time to also start playing Williams.

Yup....don't forget the guy selling the cheese steaks and the cameraman.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2019, 11:04:46 PM »

Online SparzWizard

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Let Tatum and Brown get loose so they can keep building their stocks and when they become trade pieces for something bigger, the Celtics can have all the control in that "deal"  ;)


#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2019, 11:49:51 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Brown had earned the right to start.

Has he? https://streamable.com/cxzz5

These guys are professional athletes not 3rd graders.

But why expect them to buy into hard work and high effort when we can just hand them everything without them earning it?

Like I said before. I dare someone to point out what Jaylen, Jayson or Terry has added to their games ON A CONSISTENT BASIS since last year.
Jaylen has added a beautiful, knee kick, Dirk-like, fall back, turn around jumper that is virtually unblockable and he is hitting it at a great rate. Jaylen has also added a great Eurostep in the lane which has seen him be able to finish better. Jaylen is also finishing at a better rate inside and doing so through traffic. Jaylen improved his handle for his 2nd straight year to the point he can actually shake and bake outside looking to open a lane and drive. Jaylen reduced his turnovers by 15% while increasing his usage by 5%.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2019, 12:26:47 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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I think I'm at a point where I expect nothing of this team in the playoffs and I'm just ready to see what Ainge does in the offseason.  I have a hard time seeing this working.  Lack of talent.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2019, 12:34:34 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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Brown had earned the right to start.

Has he? https://streamable.com/cxzz5

These guys are professional athletes not 3rd graders.

But why expect them to buy into hard work and high effort when we can just hand them everything without them earning it?

Like I said before. I dare someone to point out what Jaylen, Jayson or Terry has added to their games ON A CONSISTENT BASIS since last year.
Jaylen has added a beautiful, knee kick, Dirk-like, fall back, turn around jumper that is virtually unblockable and he is hitting it at a great rate. Jaylen has also added a great Eurostep in the lane which has seen him be able to finish better. Jaylen is also finishing at a better rate inside and doing so through traffic. Jaylen improved his handle for his 2nd straight year to the point he can actually shake and bake outside looking to open a lane and drive. Jaylen reduced his turnovers by 15% while increasing his usage by 5%.

TP

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2019, 12:43:09 AM »

Online tenn_smoothie

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The point of sitting Kyrie is to let the other guys feel like the man and not have the crutch of Kyrie saving them.

Pacers have a brutal schedule.

I wouldn't even play Kyrie or Horford tomorrow vs Philly. Do not give them any confidence and keeping those two out wouldnt give them anything on video to gameplan against.

We arent dropping past the 5th seed. Time to also start playing Williams.

These guys are professional athletes not 3rd graders.
Yeah, treating them like children has been part of the problem IMO
A seemingly common concensus among Kyrie haters is that our young guys are spoiled 5 year-old brats who need to be coddled and pampered.

Nothing to do with coddling or pampering. It has everything to do with playing in a stagnant offense with a ball-dominant point guard that hinders their ability to find an offensive rhythm. Was last season a mirage ? Did Brown and Tatum suddenly become inferior players, both during the same season ?
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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2019, 12:58:06 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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Brown had earned the right to start.

Has he? https://streamable.com/cxzz5

These guys are professional athletes not 3rd graders.

But why expect them to buy into hard work and high effort when we can just hand them everything without them earning it?

Like I said before. I dare someone to point out what Jaylen, Jayson or Terry has added to their games ON A CONSISTENT BASIS since last year.
Jaylen has added a beautiful, knee kick, Dirk-like, fall back, turn around jumper that is virtually unblockable and he is hitting it at a great rate. Jaylen has also added a great Eurostep in the lane which has seen him be able to finish better. Jaylen is also finishing at a better rate inside and doing so through traffic. Jaylen improved his handle for his 2nd straight year to the point he can actually shake and bake outside looking to open a lane and drive. Jaylen reduced his turnovers by 15% while increasing his usage by 5%.

I would add that, very quietly, Jaylen is leading the Celtics at scoring points per touch of the ball at a blistering .405 points per touch.   And Jayson is second at .350.

In fact, Jaylen's points/touch rate is 10th in the NBA (minimum 900 touches).

Unfortunately, he's at the back of the bus in terms of touches among our rotation members because we have many games like last night where he hardly touches the ball.   He's only averaging about 32 touches per game (and last night got just 23).

Now, it's easy to argue that he's only posting that high point/touch rate because he has a low touch/game rate.   But last spring, after Kyrie went down, Jaylen's touch rate went up (to about 30% more touches per game than he's currently getting) and yet he also posted an almost identical points/touch rate of about .409.   And that continued in the playoffs, where he got even more touches per game (about 45% more than he's getting this year) and yet again, maintained a .402 points per touch rate.    That seems pretty compelling that his scoring rate per touch is fairly solid, at least up to much higher usage than he's currently getting.

I dunno.  Seems to me we might want to be getting a guy who scores at that high a rate per touch at least a _few_ more touches per game, don't ya think?

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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2019, 01:05:05 AM »

Offline blink

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Brown had earned the right to start.

Has he? https://streamable.com/cxzz5

These guys are professional athletes not 3rd graders.

But why expect them to buy into hard work and high effort when we can just hand them everything without them earning it?

Like I said before. I dare someone to point out what Jaylen, Jayson or Terry has added to their games ON A CONSISTENT BASIS since last year.
Jaylen has added a beautiful, knee kick, Dirk-like, fall back, turn around jumper that is virtually unblockable and he is hitting it at a great rate. Jaylen has also added a great Eurostep in the lane which has seen him be able to finish better. Jaylen is also finishing at a better rate inside and doing so through traffic. Jaylen improved his handle for his 2nd straight year to the point he can actually shake and bake outside looking to open a lane and drive. Jaylen reduced his turnovers by 15% while increasing his usage by 5%.

I would add that, very quietly, Jaylen is leading the Celtics at scoring points per touch of the ball at a blistering .405 points per touch.   And Jayson is second at .350.

In fact, Jaylen's points/touch rate is 10th in the NBA (minimum 900 touches).

Unfortunately, he's at the back of the bus in terms of touches among our rotation members because we have many games like last night where he hardly touches the ball.   He's only averaging about 32 touches per game (and last night got just 23).

Now, it's easy to argue that he's only posting that high point/touch rate because he has a low touch/game rate.   But last spring, after Kyrie went down, Jaylen's touch rate went up (to about 30% more touches per game than he's currently getting) and yet he also posted an almost identical points/touch rate of about .409.   And that continued in the playoffs, where he got even more touches per game (about 45% more than he's getting this year) and yet again, maintained a .402 points per touch rate.    That seems pretty compelling that his scoring rate per touch is fairly solid, at least up to much higher usage than he's currently getting.

I dunno.  Seems to me we might want to be getting a guy who scores at that high a rate per touch at least a _few_ more touches per game, don't ya think?

great post.  100% agree.  Brown needs more touches and more minutes in general.  Unfortunately whatever offense we run (basically pick and roll for Kyrie, Tatum and Smart w/ Al) doesn't include more players cutting and post ups.  Those things happen to be great ways to get Jaylen Brown involved in more touches and Marcus Smart as well.  It is like we ignore the things that work consistently and hope that our 3 point shooting will make up for it.  All at the same time making it easier for us to guard because the whole team isn't moving and making the opposing defense work to stop us.

TP.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2019, 02:11:10 AM »

Offline LilRip

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The reason jaylen doesn’t get more minutes is because he gets lost on D. Morris (deservedly) gets blasted for getting burned on D but Jaylen needs to get called out for overhelping/late rotations/lack of communication.

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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2019, 02:34:33 AM »

Offline gouki88

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The reason jaylen doesn’t get more minutes is because he gets lost on D. Morris (deservedly) gets blasted for getting burned on D but Jaylen needs to get called out for overhelping/late rotations/lack of communication.
Being garbage on defence over the last few games hasn’t stopped Mook, JT, Rozier or Theis playing
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Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2019, 02:55:50 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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The reason jaylen doesn’t get more minutes is because he gets lost on D. Morris (deservedly) gets blasted for getting burned on D but Jaylen needs to get called out for overhelping/late rotations/lack of communication.

Yet despite all that he is still an unequivocal positive on defense, both by advanced stats and the eye test. Yes he makes mistakes, but people are confusing that with being bad. It's not that he is bad defensively, he just isn't as good as he could (and I think will eventually) be.

I also think the jaylen is error prone message is overstated, as others have pointed out he is far from the worst offender in that regard on this team.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2019, 03:10:03 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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Brown had earned the right to start.

Has he? https://streamable.com/cxzz5

These guys are professional athletes not 3rd graders.

But why expect them to buy into hard work and high effort when we can just hand them everything without them earning it?

Like I said before. I dare someone to point out what Jaylen, Jayson or Terry has added to their games ON A CONSISTENT BASIS since last year.
Jaylen has added a beautiful, knee kick, Dirk-like, fall back, turn around jumper that is virtually unblockable and he is hitting it at a great rate. Jaylen has also added a great Eurostep in the lane which has seen him be able to finish better. Jaylen is also finishing at a better rate inside and doing so through traffic. Jaylen improved his handle for his 2nd straight year to the point he can actually shake and bake outside looking to open a lane and drive. Jaylen reduced his turnovers by 15% while increasing his usage by 5%.

He is also better at passing of the drive to open shooter or dumping it off to a diving big man. He's added a finger roll to his finishing tool belt. He does a better job at playing physical in the post area against opposing wings and big men (Lebron killed him in this area at times last year). He has displayed at least some ability to play with rhythm off the bounce keeping the man on his hip in the paint (I'd like to see more of this).

And I know Jayson Tatum is going through a tough spot right now and has looked a lot less efficient than last year but I think he's noticeably improved his rebounding. He seems to also have made some strides finishing inside, and he's starting to add some fouling drawing (grifting some would call it) to his game.

Terry..... well he is ne he is. Very similar overall to last years regular season numbers. He might just be what he is, fine 3rd guard type.

Re: Stevens... it's time to let Tatum and Brown get loose
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2019, 03:15:16 AM »

Offline LilRip

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The reason jaylen doesn’t get more minutes is because he gets lost on D. Morris (deservedly) gets blasted for getting burned on D but Jaylen needs to get called out for overhelping/late rotations/lack of communication.
Being garbage on defence over the last few games hasn’t stopped Mook, JT, Rozier or Theis playing

But these guys aren’t featured the way Jaylen is featured either. I mean, JB gets a lot of touches and opportunities. Just because he doesn’t start doesn’t mean he doesn’t get his opportunities.

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