CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: DefenseWinsChamps on April 16, 2018, 10:17:00 AM
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1. We won the Marcus Morris-Avery Bradley trade, and not just because we needed the cap space for the Hayward signing. Morris is a more versatile and tough defender and a much more reliable scorer in the half-court.
2. Our roster, as currently constructed (without Irving, Hayward, Theis, or Smart), is more fit to win in the playoffs than last year's roster. We have more individual scorers that don't rely on CBS system, and we are a much better defensive team.
3. Terry Rozier may not be an all-star in the future, but he has the athleticism and guts to play with any guard in a playoff game.
4. That was the most impressive game I've seen Jayson Tatum play in the NBA. We needed him to score, especially in the 3rd. He scored with fade-aways, up-and-unders, and off-the-dribble-3s. When he made a terrible turnover late in the game, he responded the next time down with a huge block. It may not have been the most impressive statistically, but it was his best game.
5. I like All Horford.
That's all.
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1. I always liked the trade. That said, Avery is better than he showed this year;
2. I disagree here. You’re right about the offensive versatility and defense, but last year’s team made the ECF. I don’t think we’ll get that far without Kyrie;
3. He’s not going to back down, although he would lose the battle with most of the All-Star guards;
4. It was definitely his most consequential, and very impressive as a playoff debut. I disagree it was his best performance, though. Sub-.500 eFG% and 5 turnovers;
5. I love Al Horford.
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In response to your response.
1. Bradley is better than he's shown this year, but we still won that trade.
2. Don't confuse results with the process. We are better equipped for the playoffs, but that doesn't necessarily mean the results will be as good.
3. He didn't lose the battle against a fringe All-star. He dominated it.
4. Box scores don't tell the whole story. He made winning plays, and impacted the outcome.
5. I love Al Horford more.
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Considering that throughout his career so far Morris has been about 75% of the player he was for us this season, I don't think anyone could have seen this coming. Also, no high hopes about the sustainability of this type of production from him.
This trade was a wash as it happened, and it's still a wash.
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I'm sorry for breaking format...
The Celtics bench is good but, thin.
The Celtics rookies are really good but, young.
Terry Rozier is giving it all he has...and that is all I can say, it isn't pretty, but, I guess behind Horford? He won the game.
The starters all played 40+...the only point with this is, Bux starters all played 40+ also and Bux bench is thin.
The Bux are not a three point team, except they can hit the occasional three from the scorer's table with no time left.
Not sure of Bux Kryptonite used on Monroe?
Refs aside, the freak must be stopped and Horford seems to be the one...thus far.
Finally, Bux seem to be all over the place...less disciplined...sort of sloppy...
As far as starter's minutes go, Celtics are young except for Al....good matchup here.
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Considering that throughout his career so far Morris has been about 75% of the player he was for us this season, I don't think anyone could have seen this coming. Also, no high hopes about the sustainability of this type of production from him.
This trade was a wash as it happened, and it's still a wash.
I hated the trade when it happened, but have slowly been won over. Morris does not have the highest BBQ, but he brings attitude and toughness ....and while his shot selection is not great, he is absolutely fearless. He makes so many "no Marcus don't [dang it] .... YESSSSS never mind shots) that he reminds me a lot of the Antoine Walker days.
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In terms of our starters, I agree this team is better equipped for the playoffs than last year's team. Our bench is far worse though, and that will be our downfall.
It's not anyone's fault, as the injuries have lead to most of our bench being starters, but there's just not much left on the bench to use.
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1. Agreed, always felt highly of the Marcus Morris trade. Bradley, Smart, and Rozier had to much overlap in their skill sets and Morris has brought consistency and shot creation to the front court. Bradley is better than what he'a shown this year but he out priced off the roster when all was said and done.
2. This one's tough to say. Isaiah was playing at a high level last year, Crowder, Bradley and Smart provided solid production at the positions and Kelly and Jaylen were a threat to go off on any given night. I'm not outright dismissing that this team could be better, but I felt more confident and last year's team going into every game.
3. Terry's great, his shot creation is old school and his change of pace is near unstoppable. With him its just the easy bucketsand assists that seperate him from the elite. If he could just add 2 or 3 easy moves that would account for a couple plays extra a game then he'd be Jrue Holiday and that would a great career for him.
4. Incredible game for Tatum, great to see him fight through some adversity. 1 one of the most skilled wings in the league.
5. Huuuuuuge fan of Al Horford. Top 5 Center, capable of matching and at times negating elite matchup's like Giannis, Towns, and Boogie.
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In terms of our starters, I agree this team is better equipped for the playoffs than last year's team. Our bench is far worse though, and that will be our downfall.
It's not anyone's fault, as the injuries have lead to most of our bench being starters, but there's just not much left on the bench to use.
You only want to have an 8-9 man rotation in the playoffs anyhow. The only really weak link on the the bench in my mind is Ojeleye, who has no business getting any sort of minutes on a playoff team.
I think a bench of Morris, Larkin, and Monroe will make do. Having an extra wing/big type would be better, but this is adequate. It's not a strength, but I don't think it's a liability either.
Both Morris and Monroe are probably better than anyone we had coming off the bench last season anyhow.
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Al Horford in a playoff series can provide you as much value as any big man not named Anthony Davis. He deserves more credit for how good the Hawks were in 2015.
Marcus Morris is proof that a tall swing forward who can create his own shot from anywhere and will work hard and bring an edge on defense has a lot of value even if he's not super efficient and holds onto the ball a bit too much.
Tatum and Brown is a killer wing combo defensively, and I love when they're on the break together.
Tatum is the most naturally gifted, composed, clutch scorer the Celts have drafted since Pierce.
The Celts are still one efficient scoring ballhandler away from being able to make the Finals.
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I have yet to understand the undercurrent of dissatification with Morris, who has been bashed all year long despite that he was not really very healthy. He has been hugely important for the Celtics and has gotten better and better. I wasn't expecting a superstar. Maybe others were?
loving Tatum and Rozier and Brown.
Love Horford.
There's simply nothing wrong with this team beyond injuries.
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In retrospect, last year’s playoff success appears to be more due to Brad Stevens’ ability to maximize IT than being a better roster.
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I don't know if this team is better. I'd like to utilize Baynes and Moose more but I realize Milwaukee likes to play small. Punish them inside a bit. Wear them down over the course of the series.
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I don't know if this team is better. I'd like to utilize Baynes and Moose more but I realize Milwaukee likes to play small. Punish them inside a bit. Wear them down over the course of the series.
I don't think you'd wear them down much with Baynes, but there's something to be said about letting Moose bang down under.
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1. Morris is erratic but he provides that useful volatile element like Stephen Jackson on the 03 Spurs or JR Smith on the 15+16 Cavs teams. A guy who can get his own shot is a huge asset in the playoffs even if he can be maddeningly inconsistent at times. I love AB but he was flawed in perhaps more meaningful ways and seems like another testament to Brad getting the most out of his guys.
2. Maybe at the top but our lack of depth is not sustainable for long. We essentially had 5 guys do all the scoring - if 2 of them can't get it done some nights it's going to be a huge struggle and we can't count on Moose/Larkin to make up for it. When we get Smart back it'll help a little bit - he can contribute some points on occasion even though he's even more inconsistent with a lower floor than Morris.
3. I love Terry's confidence and his developing game. Still think he's a guy you'd rather have as a sparkplug off the bench that can be sat when he doesn't have it rather than a guy we need to lean on every night. We'll see some stinkers from him before this is over, I expect.
4. This run, however it ends, is going to be great experience for Tatum (and Brown). He's going to be a monster scorer in 1-2 years; he's already showing flashes of it now. Needs to tighten up his passing though, he sailed a couple out of bounds in some important moments.
5. Agree. The dumping on Al really needs to stop, he's our rock and the most important player out there. We can't count on him to get 24 every night but he's an elite glue guy, which is probably the most underrated type of player in the league.
Basically we've got a good team out there even in spite of the injuries, but everyone's at least 1-2 spots higher in the overall rotation than they'd ideally be. It'll catch up to us sooner or later. Let's hope it's later.
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I have been one of Morris' biggest critics, but he has transformed his game and his body since the beginning of the season. He looks like a different player.
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5. I like All Horford.
Ha. :D
I have been one of Morris' biggest critics, but he has transformed his game and his body since the beginning of the season. He looks like a different player.
Let's trade for Markieff too! :P
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Morris got off to a bad start due to injuries, once he got healthy he was able to contribute on both ends. This seems to me like another example of Brad putting a player in the right situation to succeed. Morris plays good defense and is able to create his own shot. He is fearless. He does not always make the best decisions, he often takes bad shots, and is not as efficient as you would like. So Brad has usually put him in spots where they need him to be the main guy on offense, encouraged him to look for his shot, and in return Morris has bought into what Brad is teaching and has become a better player as a result.
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To quote Bill Simmons:
A great and ridiculous Celts win. Game 2 is gonna be tough with NBA giving Giannis unlimited traveling and 12 fouls per game for the playoffs, but I’m still optimistic!!!
Not always in agreement with Bill from Boston, but 100% here!!!
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To quote Bill Simmons:
A great and ridiculous Celts win. Game 2 is gonna be tough with NBA giving Giannis unlimited traveling and 12 fouls per game for the playoffs, but I’m still optimistic!!!
Not always in agreement with Bill from Boston, but 100% here!!!
Awesome quote.
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In response to your response.
1. Bradley is better than he's shown this year, but we still won that trade.
2. Don't confuse results with the process. We are better equipped for the playoffs, but that doesn't necessarily mean the results will be as good.
3. He didn't lose the battle against a fringe All-star. He dominated it.
4. Box scores don't tell the whole story. He made winning plays, and impacted the outcome.
5. I love Al Horford more.
1. Agreed.
2. The East is stronger this year and we have a slightly tougher path. I also think that our current roster is closer to last years squad than I would have expected it to be had you told me Hayward and Irving would be out. That said, I still think last years playoff team was better, at least until Smart returns.
3. Who? Eric Bledsoe isn't really a fringe all-star. He's a solid starter. That's all.
4. Tatum made some nice plays but it was far from his best game. He missed a lot of makeable shots and made a bunch of rookie mistake turnovers.
5. I'll cede you probably love Al more, but he's such a great player. He can do it all.
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Our two best players are hurt. Our 6th man is hurt. The four best players playing on the Cs right now are a rookie wing, a 2nd year SG, a 3rd year PG and Al Horford and we should win this series. Think about that.
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Al Horford in a playoff series can provide you as much value as any big man not named Anthony Davis. He deserves more credit for how good the Hawks were in 2015.
Marcus Morris is proof that a tall swing forward who can create his own shot from anywhere and will work hard and bring an edge on defense has a lot of value even if he's not super efficient and holds onto the ball a bit too much.
Tatum and Brown is a killer wing combo defensively, and I love when they're on the break together.
Tatum is the most naturally gifted, composed, clutch scorer the Celts have drafted since Pierce.
The Celts are still one efficient scoring ballhandler away from being able to make the Finals.
Do you mean like Kyrie Irving? or Gordon Hayward?
or are you factoring their absences in.
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I don't see anything inflammatory in the OP. If someone wants to be inflammatory at this point, they should write something like ...
The Celtics are in trouble. They had 4 players score 20+ (and another with 19), and were at home, with a great crowd supporting them, and they still almost blew it, still had to go to overtime to win. They couldn't slow Giannis, they let Middleton go off like he was Giannis, and just wait until Bledsoe finds his groove. Bucks are gonna torch Boston.
See? ;D
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Our two best players are hurt. Our 6th man is hurt. The four best players playing on the Cs right now are a rookie wing, a 2nd year SG, a 3rd year PG and Al Horford and we should win this series. Think about that.
COTY and Exec of the Year if you ask me.
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I don't see anything inflammatory in the OP. If someone wants to be inflammatory at this point, they should write something like ...
The Celtics are in trouble. They had 4 players score 20+ (and another with 19), and were at home, with a great crowd supporting them, and they still almost blew it, still had to go to overtime to win. They couldn't slow Giannis, they let Middleton go off like he was Giannis, and just wait until Bledsoe finds his groove. Bucks are gonna torch Boston.
See? ;D
It's true that the C's barely survived that game, but its also true that the Bucks haven't played that good very often either. That was a very intense game.
At halftime, Barkley made the point that when you lose your star, "you have to cook your own meals now". The expectation was that these guys weren't ready to create their own opportunities. This wasn't an easy game for Brown, Tatum or Rozier, but all three hung in there and produced under pressure. I'm guessing that as this series plays out, they are going to get more and more confident.
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Al Horford in a playoff series can provide you as much value as any big man not named Anthony Davis. He deserves more credit for how good the Hawks were in 2015.
Marcus Morris is proof that a tall swing forward who can create his own shot from anywhere and will work hard and bring an edge on defense has a lot of value even if he's not super efficient and holds onto the ball a bit too much.
Tatum and Brown is a killer wing combo defensively, and I love when they're on the break together.
Tatum is the most naturally gifted, composed, clutch scorer the Celts have drafted since Pierce.
The Celts are still one efficient scoring ballhandler away from being able to make the Finals.
Do you mean like Kyrie Irving? or Gordon Hayward?
or are you factoring their absences in.
I'm basically saying Kyrie, but I think the Celts could make a Finals run with, say, CJ McCollum, or Jrue Holiday, or some other not-quite-All-Star like that.
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Our two best players are hurt. Our 6th man is hurt. The four best players playing on the Cs right now are a rookie wing, a 2nd year SG, a 3rd year PG and Al Horford and we should win this series. Think about that.
COTY and Exec of the Year if you ask me.
Yeah, is there really any challenge for Exec of the Year? Maybe Morey?
COTY is a bit more competitive, as several coaches did a hell of a job this year, e.g. Snyder, Brown, Casey, etc. But given the context of our injury problems, Brad has to be the favorite after yet again increasing our win count for the fifth straight year.
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Morris got off to a bad start due to injuries, once he got healthy he was able to contribute on both ends. This seems to me like another example of Brad putting a player in the right situation to succeed. Morris plays good defense and is able to create his own shot. He is fearless. He does not always make the best decisions, he often takes bad shots, and is not as efficient as you would like. So Brad has usually put him in spots where they need him to be the main guy on offense, encouraged him to look for his shot, and in return Morris has bought into what Brad is teaching and has become a better player as a result.
As somebody who isnt a huge fan of Morris I gotta admit we need him right now. Normaly im not a fan of guys who se best skill is creating contested mid range shots, but we are so offensively challenge at times that even that is better than 80% of our offense.
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Considering that throughout his career so far Morris has been about 75% of the player he was for us this season, I don't think anyone could have seen this coming. Also, no high hopes about the sustainability of this type of production from him.
This trade was a wash as it happened, and it's still a wash.
I hated the trade when it happened, but have slowly been won over. Morris does not have the highest BBQ, but he brings attitude and toughness ....and while his shot selection is not great, he is absolutely fearless. He makes so many "no Marcus don't [dang it] .... YESSSSS never mind shots) that he reminds me a lot of the Antoine Walker days.
Hehe ;D.
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This Celtics team is a TOUGH out. I love their fight.
Even when the Bucks tied the game to take it to OT, we still triumphed.
Imagine once we get Hayward and Kyrie back?
One big move in the summer may be all we need to become a serious contender next year.
I love that our guys are getting the valuable playoff experience now.
And I'm really looking forward to seeing what Danny pulls out of his hat next!
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Hot take: We will advance to ECF. We prepare and execute better than the opposition. Also, we don't brain fart even with our young players logging huge minutes.
Mild take: T-Roz will win a ring in his career. John Wall, Russ won't. Those two suck out too much cap space from their teams while not being the deliver as the best no. 1 options. When they lose athleticism, John already started to do so, they will fall off faster than D12 did.
Cold take: Brad Stevens will always be our biggest contributor, our best superstar. 5 years and counting.
Sub zero take: We are the best franchise by far. From the guy that makes coffees for a meeting (he makes the best coffee), the girl that mops the floor (she doesn't leave any spots, plus she pours in extra lemon juice for the fresh smell), all the way to Danny and Wyc (no need to explain that one). We are even best in terms of our parquet (the floor), it has always been the most beautiful, all the way up to the rafters, that are filled with banners of prior success. And rafters confirm my initial hypothesis.
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One big move in the summer may be all we need to become a serious contender next year.
Looking at the way this team plays without Kyrie and Gordon Hayward right now, I am not sure we need another move to be a contender. I mean, looking at the East right now, is there any team that you would say is insurmountable to get to the finals assuming we were healthy? A finals team would be a serious contender by definition, no?
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One big move in the summer may be all we need to become a serious contender next year.
Looking at the way this team plays without Kyrie and Gordon Hayward right now, I am not sure we need another move to be a contender. I mean, looking at the East right now, is there any team that you would say is insurmountable to get to the finals assuming we were healthy? A finals team would be a serious contender by definition, no?
I agree. As long as we maintain our bench weapons (Morris, Monroe, Rozier/Smart and Theis) and consolidate it with our draft picks, which could be a Grayson Allen type prospect.
I think we’re pretty legit.
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One big move in the summer may be all we need to become a serious contender next year.
Looking at the way this team plays without Kyrie and Gordon Hayward right now, I am not sure we need another move to be a contender. I mean, looking at the East right now, is there any team that you would say is insurmountable to get to the finals assuming we were healthy? A finals team would be a serious contender by definition, no?
I agree. As long as we maintain our bench weapons (Morris, Monroe, Rozier/Smart and Theis) and consolidate it with our draft picks, which could be a Grayson Allen type prospect.
I think we’re pretty legit.
Echoing: We need continuity and health.
If we have those, I feel like we are deciding about our own destiny.
And that is good enough for me.
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One big move in the summer may be all we need to become a serious contender next year.
Looking at the way this team plays without Kyrie and Gordon Hayward right now, I am not sure we need another move to be a contender. I mean, looking at the East right now, is there any team that you would say is insurmountable to get to the finals assuming we were healthy? A finals team would be a serious contender by definition, no?
Yep. If the C's can keep the band together, get some growth out of the young guys, and stay relatively healthy, I think they win it all next year.
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One big move in the summer may be all we need to become a serious contender next year.
Looking at the way this team plays without Kyrie and Gordon Hayward right now, I am not sure we need another move to be a contender. I mean, looking at the East right now, is there any team that you would say is insurmountable to get to the finals assuming we were healthy? A finals team would be a serious contender by definition, no?
Yep. If the C's can keep the band together, get some growth out of the young guys, and stay relatively healthy, I think they win it all next year.
Over GS, who will return a completely intact core?
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One big move in the summer may be all we need to become a serious contender next year.
Looking at the way this team plays without Kyrie and Gordon Hayward right now, I am not sure we need another move to be a contender. I mean, looking at the East right now, is there any team that you would say is insurmountable to get to the finals assuming we were healthy? A finals team would be a serious contender by definition, no?
Yep. If the C's can keep the band together, get some growth out of the young guys, and stay relatively healthy, I think they win it all next year.
Over GS, who will return a completely intact core?
You are not intact if you age out :)
It will be 5 years since they came to the scene next year.
It is not easy to play 105 -115 games per year for half of decade.
Check the Heat, Bulls, Shaqobe Lakers - they broke down and they were dominant in the same manner.
Plus there are motivation issues.
On the other side there will be a superior coach with a hungry, younger and deeper team.
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One big move in the summer may be all we need to become a serious contender next year.
Looking at the way this team plays without Kyrie and Gordon Hayward right now, I am not sure we need another move to be a contender. I mean, looking at the East right now, is there any team that you would say is insurmountable to get to the finals assuming we were healthy? A finals team would be a serious contender by definition, no?
Yep. If the C's can keep the band together, get some growth out of the young guys, and stay relatively healthy, I think they win it all next year.
Over GS, who will return a completely intact core?
Sure. Why not?
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New inflammatory thoughts:
Jaylen Brown is really, really good at basketball. He is now the best player from the 2016-2017 rookie class.
Playing Yabusele to matchup with Giannis was brilliant on CBS's part. One of Giannis primary moves involves dislodging the defender on the way to the hoop for either a right-hand finish, eurostep, or dropstep. And by the way, it was pretty apparent that Giannis was uncomfortable driving on him. No one is dislodging Yabu easily. (PS I really wish one of those threes would have gone down for Yabu. It might have opened the flood gates early)
Shane Larkin is an excellent defender, even in the post against taller players. He consistently disrupts the rhythm of his man's shots.
We need Moose to bring it in Milwaukee. His familiarity with the Bucks players and arena, his veteran presence, and his ability to slow down the game to a grind in the post could be the key to game 3.
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One big move in the summer may be all we need to become a serious contender next year.
Looking at the way this team plays without Kyrie and Gordon Hayward right now, I am not sure we need another move to be a contender. I mean, looking at the East right now, is there any team that you would say is insurmountable to get to the finals assuming we were healthy? A finals team would be a serious contender by definition, no?
Depends if we keep the key to our success this year, our bigs. If we can keep Baynes and Monroe and bring back Kyrie and Hayward, we're easily the East favorites next year. The way they carve up space and screen on offense and allow space for shooters and drives to the basket are the reason our offense has improved so drastically.
I'm kind of ready to let Smart go if that's what it takes. He's not that critical IMHO..