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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: slightly biased bias fan on March 23, 2018, 08:00:40 AM

Title: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: slightly biased bias fan on March 23, 2018, 08:00:40 AM
What a strange scenario in San Antonio, per Woj, the Spurs players have had a players only meeting asking Kawhi Leonard to return and he is still refusing and now Stephen Jackson on the Jump says this can't just be an injury issue now. If Leonard refuses an extension this offseason they will have to trade him as they will lose him next season for nothing. We won't be outbid for Kawhi's services, as no team have the right assets for a trade, especially given the Spurs are locked in to multiple vets long term and want continue competing. Philly won't give up Embiid or Simmons, Lakers don't have anyone other than Ingram and couldn't even match the salary's without giving Spurs a poison contract, the only other competition I could see is Washington if they trade either Beal or Wall but given their roster depth I can't see Leonard resigning. But the question remains do we want or need him? We'd definitely have to give up Tatum or Brown (maybe both) I still can't see Ainge trading Horford as it gives a bad look to potential free agents, where would Kawhi play? Small Forward? What about Hayward? Do you put him at Power Forward? Would he accept that given he is coming up to free agency?

There are so many questions here
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Moranis on March 23, 2018, 09:24:28 AM
We may not have the best package if there is a full on bidding war. Plenty of teams could potentially have far better packages especially the teams thay win the lottery this year (which could of course still be Boston if somehow the Lakers pick gets to 2 or 3).  I mean is Hield, Fox, and 1 something Boston could top. I'm not so sure, though I also have no idea why Sacto would give that up for 1 year of Leonard.  Phoenix, Philly, Orlando, etc. could also produce some very nice packages.

That said, I would trade the farm for Leonard as adding him to Irving and Hayward would make Boston a true legit contender for at least the next 5 seasons (if they all stayed)
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: tazzmaniac on March 23, 2018, 09:40:28 AM
We may not have the best package if there is a full on bidding war. Plenty of teams could potentially have far better packages especially the teams thay win the lottery this year (which could of course still be Boston if somehow the Lakers pick gets to 2 or 3).  I mean is Hield, Fox, and 1 something Boston could top. I'm not so sure, though I also have no idea why Sacto would give that up for 1 year of Leonard.  Phoenix, Philly, Orlando, etc. could also produce some very nice packages.

That said, I would trade the farm for Leonard as adding him to Irving and Hayward would make Boston a true legit contender for at least the next 5 seasons (if they all stayed)
Unfortunately for Kings fans, they've got one of the worst owners and GMs in the league.  They are one of two worst teams but they currently only have the 7th worst record.  I do agree that other teams could make strong offers.  The question is will they?  Most of the teams you mention are bottom feeders so Kawhi will just say he won't re-sign with them. 
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: PaulAllen on March 23, 2018, 09:57:59 AM
with injury history and a new contract extension the most I would give up is Horford, Brown, Sac pick, Memphis pick, and Bos late first round pick... While its still a haul the Celtics can still get out of the Horford contract and add one of the best players in the league...
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: johnnygreen on March 23, 2018, 10:06:52 AM
Please correct me if I’m wrong. We basically have 3 max guys, and the next highest paid player is Tatum at 6.7M. The problem I see is that the Celtics don’t have anyone in between to help match salaries (with Leonard scheduled to make around $20M next season). Without gutting the team, the only possible scenario I can think of is if Marcus Smart agrees to be part of a sign and trade. Could Danny then package Smart, Brown/Tatum, and the Lakers/Kings pick? If I’m giving up Brown/Tatum and the pick, I would hope Danny would be allowed to talk to Kawhi first to see gauge his interest in signing an extension.

In the era of position-less basketball, I think you get the player first, and then put the best players on the floor. I would think Hayward and Leonard could split duties between SG and SF. We may have to give up the dream of trading for Anthony Davis, and pounce on the opportunity to acquire another elite player who wants to be traded. Danny held onto assets to get Kyrie, so I wonder if he could do it again. Don’t get me wrong, I love Brown and Tatum, and I think they will both be really good. However, when you have the opportunity to get an All NBA player, both offensively and defensively, and is a proven playoff performer, then I don’t think you hesitate.

I think the biggest questions would be: 1. Does trading for Kawhi put the Celtics in a position to beat Golden State? 2. Will ownership be willing to pay the luxury tax by having four max players on the roster?
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: gouki88 on March 23, 2018, 10:08:53 AM
Yes we do want him
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: playdream on March 23, 2018, 10:27:20 AM
No we don't. i won't even think about touch two Jays and GH/KI
the most possibility is AL but there will really be too much wings lol
And if i am the sixers i trade Simmons for Leonard in a heart beat and say hi to Lebron
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on March 23, 2018, 10:50:31 AM
I guess he is prime option for Lakers to trade Kuzma.  Randle , Ingram picks and what ever spurs want other than Ball.  then sign Lebron .

Lakers will be full gore after PG3 , Le whine and Leonard .

Magic has no more patience to rebuild.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Eja117 on March 23, 2018, 11:20:14 AM
Money issues aside I'd offer Jaylen B straight up no discussion final offer. Go ahead and turn it down. Go ahead.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: wdleehi on March 23, 2018, 11:29:51 AM
At this point, no.   


No clue what is going on in SA, but I am quite happy with the swing position for the Celtics next year with Hayward, Brown and Tatum.   The team needs role player level guys that do a job behind them.   

Save the trade ammo for a position of more need.   A big man that can grow with the future. 
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Eddie20 on March 23, 2018, 01:14:47 PM
At this point, no.   


No clue what is going on in SA, but I am quite happy with the swing position for the Celtics next year with Hayward, Brown and Tatum.   The team needs role player level guys that do a job behind them.   

Save the trade ammo for a position of more need.   A big man that can grow with the future.

I thought about that too, but what if we trade Brown and Horford?

Let's assume we trade Horford and Brown for Leonard and Gasol (bad contract), would a big 3 of Irving, Leonard, and Haward, along with a fast improving Tatum, make us a legitimate threat to the Warriors? Would we then look to re-sign both Baynes and Monroe? Would a 3 headed center rotation of Baynes (or Theis is we don't re-sign Bayne), Monroe, and Gasol be enough?
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: playdream on March 23, 2018, 01:35:48 PM
At this point, no.   


No clue what is going on in SA, but I am quite happy with the swing position for the Celtics next year with Hayward, Brown and Tatum.   The team needs role player level guys that do a job behind them.   

Save the trade ammo for a position of more need.   A big man that can grow with the future.

I thought about that too, but what if we trade Brown and Horford?

Let's assume we trade Horford and Brown for Leonard and Gasol (bad contract), would a big 3 of Irving, Leonard, and Haward, along with a fast improving Tatum, make us a legitimate threat to the Warriors? Would we then look to re-sign both Baynes and Monroe? Would a 3 headed center rotation of Baynes (or Theis is we don't re-sign Bayne), Monroe, and Gasol be enough?
AL yes, We won't touch Brown even for Davis, a big NO
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: nickagneta on March 23, 2018, 03:10:53 PM
Money issues aside I'd offer Jaylen B straight up no discussion final offer. Go ahead and turn it down. Go ahead.
Unfortunately, you can't put money issues aside.

But....if Smart agrees to a sign and trade and Brown, Yabusele and picks are the only things going to SA, I'm down.

Kawhi for S&T Smart, Brown, Yabusele, 2018 Bos pick, 2019 Sac pick, 2019 LAC pick

Then extend both Kawhi and Kyrie.

Kyrie/Rozier
Kawhi/Nader
Hayward/Ojeleye
Tatum
Horford/Theis

Possibly see if Monroe would resign a 3 year, $19+ million deal leaving the MLE to sign at least one really good shooter off the bench or starting level big to put Tatum on the bench.

That's a championship level team if everyone is healthy
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Big333223 on March 23, 2018, 03:57:41 PM
I'd rahter god forward with this team and see what they can do.

Kawhi is great but we don't know what his health situation actually is and we've never seen him outisde of the Spurs system. He's also a lot more expensive than just haning on to Brown and Tatum and seeing what they can be.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: jambr380 on March 23, 2018, 04:38:50 PM
I would love to trade for Leonard, but would not be willing to give up a package similar to what it would take to get AD (Brown, Horford, Sac pick, Mem pick). I think you either need remove Brown or remove the Sac pick. Eddie's idea below is about what I think it should take given that he obviously has injury issues, may have 'attitude' issues, and can just tell any interested 'bad' teams that he won't re-sign with them.

When we acquired Kyrie, there were still two years left on his contract - same with AD. Kawhi, as great as he is, may bring back a package closer to what Indy got for Paul George (which actually ended up pretty good).
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: PAOBoston on March 23, 2018, 04:41:13 PM
I don't think they "need" Leonard but  believe they would be better off served to utilize their roster/assets for something else.

First, we don't even know exactly how good this team could be if healthy. What if a healthy KI/GH and Co. are like a 65 win team? It's kind of hard to judge at this point. Having your stars healthy solves the bench issues and gives you a glut of assets to parlay into another all star type player. With GH healthy, it gives you a lot more flexibility to be able to offer up a package of Rozier/Brown/SAC pick (just as an example). That's a pretty legit package.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Phantom255x on March 23, 2018, 09:46:08 PM
I love Kawhi, but I wouldn't.

Same reason I wouldn't for Davis. Some injury risks involved with both, and I'd imagine we'd have to gut our team to acquire either, which I'm not a fan of (maybe not for Leonard, but we definitely have to give up one of Tatum/Brown, and of course the Kings Pick). I'm also not a fan of trading Horford for many reasons.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: nickagneta on March 23, 2018, 11:42:47 PM
As someone said earlier...maybe we should wait to see what we have with a 100% healthy club next year. We could very well have a 60+ win team and contender with just making everyone healthy, seeing growth in Rozy, Theis, Yabu, Semi and the Js, and bringing back Smart, and either Baynes or Monroe.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: bopna on March 24, 2018, 04:16:20 AM
No.

The only guy id give up Tatum and Brown for is AD.
Btown can be Kawhi in 2 or 3 yrs..why give up the farm for him.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: gouki88 on March 24, 2018, 04:41:38 AM
No.

The only guy id give up Tatum and Brown for is AD.
Btown can be Kawhi in 2 or 3 yrs..why give up the farm for him.
No, Brown most certainly can’t be without absolutely unforeseen improvement on both ends and everything in between
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Somebody on March 24, 2018, 07:19:38 AM
No.

The only guy id give up Tatum and Brown for is AD.
Btown can be Kawhi in 2 or 3 yrs..why give up the farm for him.
No, Brown most certainly can’t be without absolutely unforeseen improvement on both ends and everything in between
His curve so far has been that steep so there is a chance albeit small.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on March 24, 2018, 08:08:06 AM
Yabu and 2nd
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: gouki88 on March 24, 2018, 08:52:35 AM
No.

The only guy id give up Tatum and Brown for is AD.
Btown can be Kawhi in 2 or 3 yrs..why give up the farm for him.
No, Brown most certainly can’t be without absolutely unforeseen improvement on both ends and everything in between
His curve so far has been that steep so there is a chance albeit small.
I agree that his curve has been that steep, and maybe he could turn into the 22-26ppg guy on offence that Kawhi is. But his defence would have to improve monumentally, and I just can’t see that happening
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Somebody on March 24, 2018, 09:30:43 AM
No.

The only guy id give up Tatum and Brown for is AD.
Btown can be Kawhi in 2 or 3 yrs..why give up the farm for him.
No, Brown most certainly can’t be without absolutely unforeseen improvement on both ends and everything in between
His curve so far has been that steep so there is a chance albeit small.
I agree that his curve has been that steep, and maybe he could turn into the 22-26ppg guy on offence that Kawhi is. But his defence would have to improve monumentally, and I just can’t see that happening
His defense has been All-NBA level this year... I'd slot him in the 2nd team. Best one on one defender on our team imo.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Smartacus on March 24, 2018, 01:11:58 PM
No.

The only guy id give up Tatum and Brown for is AD.
Btown can be Kawhi in 2 or 3 yrs..why give up the farm for him.
No, Brown most certainly can’t be without absolutely unforeseen improvement on both ends and everything in between
His curve so far has been that steep so there is a chance albeit small.
I agree that his curve has been that steep, and maybe he could turn into the 22-26ppg guy on offence that Kawhi is. But his defence would have to improve monumentally, and I just can’t see that happening
His defense has been All-NBA level this year... I'd slot him in the 2nd team. Best one on one defender on our team imo.

Think your selling Kawhi short. Jaylen's improvement curve has been incredible but Kawhi has giant hands and and a defensive mentality that makes him practically GOAT level as a wing stopper.

Leonard also has a more defined half court arsenal than the North/South way Jaylen approaches offense. I'm looking forward to seeing Jaylen in the playoffs but a lot of what he does offensively can be taken away when the game clamps down.

Jaylen will be something special in his own right but he's closer to Paul George's game than Kawhi's and IMO that makes them worlds apart as players.

Not sure that I'd be in favor of making the trade for financial and chemistry reasons but IMO a healthy Kawhi Leonard would be worth every penny of what we would offer.

Edit: Heeeeey 1500 posts! Goodbye Bill Walton it was an honor repping your good name these past 500 posts.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: jbp126 on March 24, 2018, 03:21:28 PM
It's possible for us to acquire both Kawhi and AD. I know this sounds crazy and it most likely is. However, if both players are available, we have the assets (vets/young players/picks) to make trades for both. It would require emptying the war chest of picks and trading both Jaylen and Tatum. Pretty sure I just lost everyone on the forum there so I'm not going to waste time breaking down the possible outgoing/incoming. For all the naysayers and people dead set against trading Jaylen and Tatum, do your best to argue against a core of Kyrie (26), Hayward (28), Kawhi (26/27), Davis (25).

 
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: More Banners on March 24, 2018, 03:58:00 PM
It's possible for us to acquire both Kawhi and AD. I know this sounds crazy and it most likely is. However, if both players are available, we have the assets (vets/young players/picks) to make trades for both. It would require emptying the war chest of picks and trading both Jaylen and Tatum. Pretty sure I just lost everyone on the forum there so I'm not going to waste time breaking down the possible outgoing/incoming. For all the naysayers and people dead set against trading Jaylen and Tatum, do your best to argue against a core of Kyrie (26), Hayward (28), Kawhi (26/27), Davis (25).

That's brilliant I'm giving you a TP for being provocative yet concise and readable.

Tough to say, but a case can probably be made that Kyrie and Kawhi could be perhaps playing in some sort of pain or discomfort, and consequently the young budding stars are a preferable long term bet than Leonard.

Anthony Davis though...that's something else. I try to give everything but Tatum and Brown, and dream that since we could have 4 1st rounders next year, anything is possible.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Ogaju on March 24, 2018, 04:30:37 PM
I don't think they "need" Leonard but  believe they would be better off served to utilize their roster/assets for something else.

First, we don't even know exactly how good this team could be if healthy. What if a healthy KI/GH and Co. are like a 65 win team? It's kind of hard to judge at this point. Having your stars healthy solves the bench issues and gives you a glut of assets to parlay into another all star type player. With GH healthy, it gives you a lot more flexibility to be able to offer up a package of Rozier/Brown/SAC pick (just as an example). That's a pretty legit package.

Some people just love to trade for trade sake...there is no player in the league worth Brown and Tatum.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: KGs Knee on March 24, 2018, 04:43:36 PM
At this point, I don't think I'd trade Tatum for anyone, period. He has far too high of a ceiling and there is still too much uncertainty as to whether or not he will reach it, thus there is no way we could possibly get fair value for him in a trade. That, and I would rather see him in a Celtics jersey for the next 15 years anyway.

Brown, on the other hand, I'm more willing to trade. He looks like he will be a borderline All-Star for a number of years, but I don't think he has superstar potential. If we can trade Brown with an assortment of other assets for a superstar I'd do that in heartbeat. I'm just not convinced there is a team out there that would trade us a superstar without demanding Tatum, and as I said above, that is a non-starter for me and would end any trade discussion.

So, sure, if we could trade Brown + LAL/SAC pick + other assets for Leonard, of course I would do that. But I seriously doubt that is a possibility.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: nickagneta on March 24, 2018, 07:15:06 PM
At this point, I don't think I'd trade Tatum for anyone, period. He has far too high of a ceiling and there is still too much uncertainty as to whether or not he will reach it, thus there is no way we could possibly get fair value for him in a trade. That, and I would rather see him in a Celtics jersey for the next 15 years anyway.

Brown, on the other hand, I'm more willing to trade. He looks like he will be a borderline All-Star for a number of years, but I don't think he has superstar potential. If we can trade Brown with an assortment of other assets for a superstar I'd do that in heartbeat. I'm just not convinced there is a team out there that would trade us a superstar without demanding Tatum, and as I said above, that is a non-starter for me and would end any trade discussion.

So, sure, if we could trade Brown + LAL/SAC pick + other assets for Leonard, of course I would do that. But I seriously doubt that is a possibility.
I think there is an excellent chance that Brown reaches Jimmy Butler quality of game and that Tatum reaches Paul George quality of game in 3-4 years. So the way I look at things is would you trade prime Butler and George as a package for an AD or Kawhi in their prime? I just don't know. If Brown and Tatum reach those ceilings in 3 years, you have prime Kyrie, Hayward, Brown and Tatum with the last two cost controlled for a long time.

I would package one of Tatum or Brown for AD or Kawhi but I don't think I would ever package both for just one.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: KGs Knee on March 24, 2018, 07:33:18 PM
At this point, I don't think I'd trade Tatum for anyone, period. He has far too high of a ceiling and there is still too much uncertainty as to whether or not he will reach it, thus there is no way we could possibly get fair value for him in a trade. That, and I would rather see him in a Celtics jersey for the next 15 years anyway.

Brown, on the other hand, I'm more willing to trade. He looks like he will be a borderline All-Star for a number of years, but I don't think he has superstar potential. If we can trade Brown with an assortment of other assets for a superstar I'd do that in heartbeat. I'm just not convinced there is a team out there that would trade us a superstar without demanding Tatum, and as I said above, that is a non-starter for me and would end any trade discussion.

So, sure, if we could trade Brown + LAL/SAC pick + other assets for Leonard, of course I would do that. But I seriously doubt that is a possibility.
I think there is an excellent chance that Brown reaches Jimmy Butler quality of game and that Tatum reaches Paul George quality of game in 3-4 years. So the way I look at things is would you trade prime Butler and George as a package for an AD or Kawhi in their prime? I just don't know. If Brown and Tatum reach those ceilings in 3 years, you have prime Kyrie, Hayward, Brown and Tatum with the last two cost controlled for a long time.

I would package one of Tatum or Brown for AD or Kawhi but I don't think I would ever package both for just one.

Yeah, we're in agreement about trading both, there's just no way I trade both Tatum and Brown for any individual player.

But I think you're under selling what Tatum could become, and thus why I'm not trading him at all. As for Brown, he could potentially reach Butler's level, but I don't think he will, thus why I'm more apt to trade him for someone like Davis or Leonard, and would be willing to include other assets that aren't Jayson Tatum.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Tr1boy on April 05, 2018, 11:41:29 AM
Yes we do...I know I do

He is one of the top players

my theory as to why he no longer wants to play for the Spurs is because of Buford and especially Pops

He was probably pressed(knowing how hard nosed this organization is) regarding his injury, regimen etc. And he just wanted to be left alone , not pressured about it

2nd  Popovich still yells at him at times (he yells at everyone) but still eventually it takes a toll on some people.  He is a grown man and one of the best players yet still has to be on his tippy toes and gets yelled at for minor mistakes vs everyone else he does

He is no doubt not picking up his option and for sure not resigning to an extension

The Celtics should step in and make an offer for him.  Not many other teams have the assets the Celts do, to make a trade work

I hate to give up on one of Brown or Tatum.  But you have to give up something good for something good in return.   Lastly the Spurs are aging fast.  They need to revamp their lineup soon and infuse with youth

Trade
To Spurs: Tatum, Rozier, Horford, Future 1st (not 2019), a few 2nds

To Celtics: Leonard, Pau Gasol

Celts lineup after trade

Gasol/FA/Draft pick
Leonard
Hayward
Brown
Irving

This lineup would be a ton to handle and built to win championships
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Vermont Green on April 05, 2018, 11:50:54 AM
Kawhi Leonard will be 27 for next season.  That is not old by any stretch but I just have this feeling that his best basketball is behind him.  We have Tatum and Hayward who play the same position.  I don't want to see the Celtics reach in any way to get Kawhi.  I would understand trading Brown or Tatum for Davis for sure.  Not sure it is the right time to go after Kawhi.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: CFAN38 on April 05, 2018, 11:53:25 AM
It's a major homer call but I wont be happy if Tatum or Brown is traded for Leonard.

Leonard is an great player and when healthy a clear top 5 player in the league. I just cant see the logic in trading for a player with his injury history going into a contract year.

Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: playdream on April 05, 2018, 12:03:55 PM
Hayward and Kawhi is basically a wash , one is better team defender and point forward and team player, one better individual lock down defender with selfish mentality, both are injured but one's situiation is clear than another

I don't see why we need to go for him
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: tazzmaniac on April 05, 2018, 12:07:29 PM
Yes we do...I know I do

He is one of the top players

my theory as to why he no longer wants to play for the Spurs is because of Buford and especially Pops

He was probably pressed(knowing how hard nosed this organization is) regarding his injury, regimen etc. And he just wanted to be left alone , not pressured about it

2nd  Popovich still yells at him at times (he yells at everyone) but still eventually it takes a toll on some people.  He is a grown man and one of the best players yet still has to be on his tippy toes and gets yelled at for minor mistakes vs everyone else he does

He is no doubt not picking up his option and for sure not resigning to an extension

The Celtics should step in and make an offer for him.  Not many other teams have the assets the Celts do, to make a trade work

I hate to give up on one of Brown or Tatum.  But you have to give up something good for something good in return.   Lastly the Spurs are aging fast.  They need to revamp their lineup soon and infuse with youth

Trade
To Spurs: Tatum, Rozier, Horford, Future 1st (not 2019), a few 2nds

To Celtics: Leonard, Pau Gasol

Celts lineup after trade

Gasol/FA/Draft pick
Leonard
Hayward
Brown
Irving

This lineup would be a ton to handle and built to win championships
Why in the heck would we trade for Gasol who will be 38 in 3 months and has 2 years @16M each left on his contract? 
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Moranis on April 05, 2018, 12:42:38 PM
Hayward and Kawhi is basically a wash , one is better team defender and point forward and team player, one better individual lock down defender with selfish mentality, both are injured but one's situiation is clear than another

I don't see why we need to go for him
Assuming they are both healthy, Leonard is a significantly better player than Hayward.  It isn't close.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: playdream on April 05, 2018, 12:46:14 PM
Hayward and Kawhi is basically a wash , one is better team defender and point forward and team player, one better individual lock down defender with selfish mentality, both are injured but one's situiation is clear than another

I don't see why we need to go for him
Assuming they are both healthy, Leonard is a significantly better player than Hayward.  It isn't close.
Not true
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on April 05, 2018, 01:29:57 PM
Another injury-prone player? No thanks.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: byennie on April 05, 2018, 01:36:36 PM
Hayward and Kawhi is basically a wash , one is better team defender and point forward and team player, one better individual lock down defender with selfish mentality, both are injured but one's situiation is clear than another

I don't see why we need to go for him
Assuming they are both healthy, Leonard is a significantly better player than Hayward.  It isn't close.
Not true

Hayward is excellent, but healthy Kawhi is DPOY and MVP level. That's a step up. It's not even clear Hayward was better on offense last year, and no amount of team defense equals the best perimeter defender in the league.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Monkhouse on April 05, 2018, 01:39:45 PM
Hayward and Kawhi is basically a wash , one is better team defender and point forward and team player, one better individual lock down defender with selfish mentality, both are injured but one's situiation is clear than another

I don't see why we need to go for him
Assuming they are both healthy, Leonard is a significantly better player than Hayward.  It isn't close.

Okay, and guess what?

One cost cap space, and the other one will cost cap space+assets+draft picks, and honestly Kawhi seems like he's more than meets the eye...
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Moranis on April 05, 2018, 01:41:36 PM
Hayward and Kawhi is basically a wash , one is better team defender and point forward and team player, one better individual lock down defender with selfish mentality, both are injured but one's situiation is clear than another

I don't see why we need to go for him
Assuming they are both healthy, Leonard is a significantly better player than Hayward.  It isn't close.

Okay, and guess what?

One cost cap space, and the other one will cost cap space+assets+draft picks, and honestly Kawhi seems like he's more than meets the eye...
what does that have to do with anything?
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Monkhouse on April 05, 2018, 01:49:43 PM
Hayward and Kawhi is basically a wash , one is better team defender and point forward and team player, one better individual lock down defender with selfish mentality, both are injured but one's situiation is clear than another

I don't see why we need to go for him
Assuming they are both healthy, Leonard is a significantly better player than Hayward.  It isn't close.

Okay, and guess what?

One cost cap space, and the other one will cost cap space+assets+draft picks, and honestly Kawhi seems like he's more than meets the eye...
what does that have to do with anything?

Because playdream is comparing the both. We all know Leonard is a better player, that's clearly obvious... But in terms of what it would cost to bring Leonard over is what I meant.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: tazzmaniac on April 05, 2018, 01:55:14 PM
Hayward and Kawhi is basically a wash , one is better team defender and point forward and team player, one better individual lock down defender with selfish mentality, both are injured but one's situiation is clear than another

I don't see why we need to go for him
Assuming they are both healthy, Leonard is a significantly better player than Hayward.  It isn't close.

Okay, and guess what?

One cost cap space, and the other one will cost cap space+assets+draft picks, and honestly Kawhi seems like he's more than meets the eye...
what does that have to do with anything?

Because playdream is comparing the both. We all know Leonard is a better player, that's clearly obvious... But in terms of what it would cost to bring Leonard over is what I meant.
Apparently playdream doesn't know that.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Atzar on April 05, 2018, 02:27:32 PM
Leonard is an MVP-caliber player.  If doctors clear him and SA looks to trade him (I'm still not convinced), hell yes I want him.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: playdream on April 05, 2018, 02:50:10 PM
Hayward and Kawhi is basically a wash , one is better team defender and point forward and team player, one better individual lock down defender with selfish mentality, both are injured but one's situiation is clear than another

I don't see why we need to go for him
Assuming they are both healthy, Leonard is a significantly better player than Hayward.  It isn't close.
Not true

Hayward is excellent, but healthy Kawhi is DPOY and MVP level. That's a step up. It's not even clear Hayward was better on offense last year, and no amount of team defense equals the best perimeter defender in the league.
Kawhi wins DPOY and FMVP only because under Pop's spurs system, Hayward is most likely be the same level player if he plays for Pop
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: playdream on April 05, 2018, 02:53:42 PM
Hayward and Kawhi is basically a wash , one is better team defender and point forward and team player, one better individual lock down defender with selfish mentality, both are injured but one's situiation is clear than another

I don't see why we need to go for him
Assuming they are both healthy, Leonard is a significantly better player than Hayward.  It isn't close.

Okay, and guess what?

One cost cap space, and the other one will cost cap space+assets+draft picks, and honestly Kawhi seems like he's more than meets the eye...
what does that have to do with anything?

Because playdream is comparing the both. We all know Leonard is a better player, that's clearly obvious... But in terms of what it would cost to bring Leonard over is what I meant.
Apparently playdream doesn't know that.
Because that is not true, Kawhi is one of the most overrated player in the league(still top player though), pumped hugely by Pop's system.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: nickagneta on April 05, 2018, 03:09:31 PM
Hayward and Kawhi is basically a wash , one is better team defender and point forward and team player, one better individual lock down defender with selfish mentality, both are injured but one's situiation is clear than another

I don't see why we need to go for him
Assuming they are both healthy, Leonard is a significantly better player than Hayward.  It isn't close.
Not true

Hayward is excellent, but healthy Kawhi is DPOY and MVP level. That's a step up. It's not even clear Hayward was better on offense last year, and no amount of team defense equals the best perimeter defender in the league.
Kawhi wins DPOY and FMVP only because under Pop's spurs system, Hayward is most likely be the same level player if he plays for Pop
Ummmmm....no. Kawhi is a better defender by far because he has excellent decensive instincts and off the charts athleticism that Hayward doesn't have. Kawhi is also a more efficient scorer. That makes Kawhi a much better player and it has nothing to do with Pop's system.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: iadera on April 06, 2018, 11:51:52 AM
Guys you are forgetting that we have something that all the teams in the league would want to have, in Tatum and Brown, so I just don't see why in the world would we get rid of any of them, no matter which player is on the other side. They are improving so fast that next year, this same team will be like 20%-30% stronger.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: slightly biased bias fan on November 12, 2018, 12:37:34 AM
I think we really missed out on trading for Kawhi, given reports that Brown was not included in any trade possibility he could have been the clincher and in the process majorly weakening a rival that would have thrown in the towel and gone into full rebuild mode.

IMO Jaylen has no excuse for how bad he has started this season (36 FG% 27.7 FG3% 62.1 FT%) is Per has almost halved and his efficiency has dropped by 10%.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: gouki88 on November 12, 2018, 12:46:09 AM
I think we really missed out on trading for Kawhi, given reports that Brown was not included in any trade possibility he could have been the clincher and in the process majorly weakening a rival that would have thrown in the towel and gone into full rebuild mode.

IMO Jaylen has no excuse for how bad he has started this season (36 FG% 27.7 FG3% 62.1 FT%) is Per has almost halved and his efficiency has dropped by 10%.
Blegh. Especially true when Rozier likely would’ve been part of it too.

Dang it
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Rondo9 on November 13, 2018, 10:41:28 PM
I think we really missed out on trading for Kawhi, given reports that Brown was not included in any trade possibility he could have been the clincher and in the process majorly weakening a rival that would have thrown in the towel and gone into full rebuild mode.

IMO Jaylen has no excuse for how bad he has started this season (36 FG% 27.7 FG3% 62.1 FT%) is Per has almost halved and his efficiency has dropped by 10%.

It was a huge risk and besides it’s not like Jaylen can’t bounce back. Ssseeeshh guys early in the season and you already given up on the young players?  ::)
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: gouki88 on November 14, 2018, 12:39:18 AM
I think we really missed out on trading for Kawhi, given reports that Brown was not included in any trade possibility he could have been the clincher and in the process majorly weakening a rival that would have thrown in the towel and gone into full rebuild mode.

IMO Jaylen has no excuse for how bad he has started this season (36 FG% 27.7 FG3% 62.1 FT%) is Per has almost halved and his efficiency has dropped by 10%.

It was a huge risk and besides it’s not like Jaylen can’t bounce back. Ssseeeshh guys early in the season and you already given up on the young players?  ::)
I don't think anyone has given up on Jaylen. However, he's taken a step backwards this year, and given how good Kawhi looks and the fact that no team looks invulnerable, having Kawhi would have given us a higher chance at a banner
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: rondofan1255 on November 14, 2018, 01:02:15 AM
I think we really missed out on trading for Kawhi, given reports that Brown was not included in any trade possibility he could have been the clincher and in the process majorly weakening a rival that would have thrown in the towel and gone into full rebuild mode.

IMO Jaylen has no excuse for how bad he has started this season (36 FG% 27.7 FG3% 62.1 FT%) is Per has almost halved and his efficiency has dropped by 10%.

It was a huge risk and besides it’s not like Jaylen can’t bounce back. Ssseeeshh guys early in the season and you already given up on the young players?  ::)
I don't think anyone hasn't given up on Jaylen. He's taken a step backwards this year, and given how good Kawhi looks and the fact that no team looks invulnerable, having Kawhi would have given us a higher chance at a banner

I haven’t given up on Jaylen or Jayson. Most fans haven’t given up IMO.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: gouki88 on November 14, 2018, 01:33:07 AM
I think we really missed out on trading for Kawhi, given reports that Brown was not included in any trade possibility he could have been the clincher and in the process majorly weakening a rival that would have thrown in the towel and gone into full rebuild mode.

IMO Jaylen has no excuse for how bad he has started this season (36 FG% 27.7 FG3% 62.1 FT%) is Per has almost halved and his efficiency has dropped by 10%.

It was a huge risk and besides it’s not like Jaylen can’t bounce back. Ssseeeshh guys early in the season and you already given up on the young players?  ::)
I don't think anyone hasn't given up on Jaylen. He's taken a step backwards this year, and given how good Kawhi looks and the fact that no team looks invulnerable, having Kawhi would have given us a higher chance at a banner

I haven’t given up on Jaylen or Jayson. Most fans haven’t given up IMO.
Whoops, I meant to say I don’t think anyone has given up on him, lol.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: nickagneta on November 14, 2018, 03:38:01 AM
I think we really missed out on trading for Kawhi, given reports that Brown was not included in any trade possibility he could have been the clincher and in the process majorly weakening a rival that would have thrown in the towel and gone into full rebuild mode.

IMO Jaylen has no excuse for how bad he has started this season (36 FG% 27.7 FG3% 62.1 FT%) his Per as has almost halved and his efficiency has dropped by 10%.
If Brown plays the next 14 games and he produces at the same rate as last year in 12 of them, then he interspersed two  games where he went 10-12 from the line, 10-14 from deep and 24-28 over those two games, his shooting line would be: 44.6%/37.9%/69.7% bringing his PPG upto 14.5.

His stats would start looking like last year's stats and he could grow from that. That's all it would take to make Jaylen whole again, have two games out of the next 14 games like the stats below while playing his averages from  last year for the other 12 games

12-14 from the floor
5-7 from deep
5-6 from the line

Two monster games, no doubt. But I think he would be capable of doing that over the next 14 games.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: knuckleballer on November 14, 2018, 03:55:37 AM
The start of this season has been disappointing and the two Jays have been as well, but they are only 20 and 22 years old.  I really think we should look long term and hold onto both players.  We are going to be a very good team for a very long time.
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: Moranis on November 14, 2018, 08:42:03 AM
I think we really missed out on trading for Kawhi, given reports that Brown was not included in any trade possibility he could have been the clincher and in the process majorly weakening a rival that would have thrown in the towel and gone into full rebuild mode.

IMO Jaylen has no excuse for how bad he has started this season (36 FG% 27.7 FG3% 62.1 FT%) his Per as has almost halved and his efficiency has dropped by 10%.
If Brown plays the next 14 games and he produces at the same rate as last year in 12 of them, then he interspersed two  games where he went 10-12 from the line, 10-14 from deep and 24-28 over those two games, his shooting line would be: 44.6%/37.9%/69.7% bringing his PPG upto 14.5.

His stats would start looking like last year's stats and he could grow from that. That's all it would take to make Jaylen whole again, have two games out of the next 14 games like the stats below while playing his averages from  last year for the other 12 games

12-14 from the floor
5-7 from deep
5-6 from the line

Two monster games, no doubt. But I think he would be capable of doing that over the next 14 games.
he could do that 5 times over the next 14 and he still wouldn't be as good as Leonard though. 
Title: Re: No-one is out bidding us for Leonard...but do we want him?
Post by: nickagneta on November 14, 2018, 12:50:32 PM
I think we really missed out on trading for Kawhi, given reports that Brown was not included in any trade possibility he could have been the clincher and in the process majorly weakening a rival that would have thrown in the towel and gone into full rebuild mode.

IMO Jaylen has no excuse for how bad he has started this season (36 FG% 27.7 FG3% 62.1 FT%) his Per as has almost halved and his efficiency has dropped by 10%.
If Brown plays the next 14 games and he produces at the same rate as last year in 12 of them, then he interspersed two  games where he went 10-12 from the line, 10-14 from deep and 24-28 over those two games, his shooting line would be: 44.6%/37.9%/69.7% bringing his PPG upto 14.5.

His stats would start looking like last year's stats and he could grow from that. That's all it would take to make Jaylen whole again, have two games out of the next 14 games like the stats below while playing his averages from  last year for the other 12 games

12-14 from the floor
5-7 from deep
5-6 from the line

Two monster games, no doubt. But I think he would be capable of doing that over the next 14 games.
he could do that 5 times over the next 14 and he still wouldn't be as good as Leonard though.
I was just pointing how easy it will be for Jaylen to get back to the same numbers he had last year since sbbf was mentioning how bad his numbers were.

And of course, he isn't as good as Leonard is now. Never said he was. Heck, there isn't one player on the Celtics that is as good as Kawhi.