Bill Simmons says 2020 Lakers would beat 2008 Celtics

[Roy H.]

Against Perkins though, he would have played in the 30 minute range

Howard played in 87 games this season.  He played 30+ minutes in exactly one of them.

On a team that won a title, he somehow managed a negative +/- for the playoffs.  The Lakers got outscored with him on the floor in 11 out of 18 playoff games.

[Moranis]

The Cavs series gets remembered for the amazing duel in Game 7, but people forget how great our defense was against Bron.  He put up numbers, but we held him to 35.5% shooting, and 5.3 turnovers per game.

Lebron actually was starting to figure Boston out.  He was awful the first 2 games.  I mean he was 2 of 18 with 10 turnovers in game 1 and only a slightly better 6 of 24 with 7 turnovers in game 2.  He got better basically every game in that series and the last 3 games he was a monster. 

But that Cavs team was terrible, outside of Lebron.

He didn’t figure them out that much.

Game 3: 5-for-16, 2 turnovers
Game 4: 7-for-20, 4 turnovers
Game 6: 9-for-23, 8 turnovers

Props to him for great performances in Games 5 and 7, although even then he was sub-50% from the floor.

Our defense was epically great.

I believe it was you that went with the Scoreboard routine.  So I'm just going to say Scoreboard and leave it at that.

Lol.  I thinks that’s because you’re having a hard time:

1. Admitting the Celts were a great team that severely limited your binkie; and
2. Reconciling that the terrible roster of the Cavs helped carry a struggling Lebron to wins

Also: “Scoreboard” doesn’t apply when a player’s team loses the series.

They won those 3 games though.  Lebron's best two games of the series i.e. games 5 and 7, the Celtics won.  He was awful in games 1 and 2, Celtics wins, but after that Lebron really did start to figure it out as the Cavs won 3 games and the 2 they lost, Lebron looked like the all time great he would eventually morph into.  And for the record, a large reason the Cavs won those 3 games is Paul Pierce was terrible (in a large part because of Lebron's defense on him). 

And that roster was absolutely terrible.  It really isn't debatable.  Even with Lebron, they had no business pushing the C's to 7 games.  Nor did the Hawks.  And frankly, had the Lakers not collapsed after building a 21 point lead at the end of the 1st quarter in game 4 in the Finals, the Lakers probably win that series and we are having a vastly different discussion.  Which of course brings me back to the original point i.e. the 2020 Lakers would have beaten either of those teams because Lebron James is the best player on those 3 teams, and if Davis isn't 2nd, he is 3rd.  At the end of the day, playoff series are won and lost by the talent at the top and the 2020 Lakers have the best talent at the top of those 3 teams.  That is what matters because that is what always matters. 

[Moranis]

Against Perkins though, he would have played in the 30 minute range

Howard played in 87 games this season.  He played 30+ minutes in exactly one of them.

On a team that won a title, he somehow managed a negative +/- for the playoffs.  The Lakers got outscored with him on the floor in 11 out of 18 playoff games.

You are comparing the modern NBA to 2008.  Howard is a dinosaur in the modern league, he would be just fine when matched up with a fellow dinosaur like Perkins. 

[wiley]

Against Perkins though, he would have played in the 30 minute range

Howard played in 87 games this season.  He played 30+ minutes in exactly one of them.

On a team that won a title, he somehow managed a negative +/- for the playoffs.  The Lakers got outscored with him on the floor in 11 out of 18 playoff games.

You are comparing the modern NBA to 2008.  Howard is a dinosaur in the modern league, he would be just fine when matched up with a fellow dinosaur like Perkins.

You're giving this 2020 Laker team way too much credit.  I'm not sure they could have beaten Miami without the injuries.  Miami is a very nice and tough team, but they aren't in the class of either either Lakers or Celtics of 2008.  You're forgetting that a team can look fantastic when they are not pressured.  With a bit of the right kind of pressure, teams that you think are great can crack.  There was no way the Heat could really pressure the Lakers after losing Dragic, their leading playoff scorer. 

[GreenlyGreeny]

He’s wrong. 2008 KG shuts down AD, and Pierce/Allen out score 2020 LeBron. I’d even take 2008 Rondo over 2020 Rondo given the speed/acceleration differential. 2008 Perk is on par with a 34 year old Dwight Howard. But the biggest difference is the 2008 bench, which would just obliterate the 2020 Lakers’ bench. In a 7-game series, the entire starting lineups cannot play 48 minutes every game, so bench strength matters.

[gouki88]

Cringeworthy seeing Simmons say this and cringeworthy seeing posters defend it

[Birdman]

Funniest thing I ever seen on here!! Our bench was outstanding also with Brown, Posey, Cassell Davis...Perk and KG would wore out Davis big time..Rondo was a lot better than then now..Pierce and James would beat each other up so I say Celtics would sweep the Lakers

[Donoghus]

No, they wouldn't.

I think California Bill has been out there too long now & is certainly guilty of recency bias here.

Are we really that far removed now to start diminishing just how good a team the '08 Celtics were?  The chemistry, the defensive ferociousness, the depth the utter dominance they played with at times? That is one of the all-time teams.

[Moranis]

No, they wouldn't.

I think California Bill has been out there too long now & is certainly guilty of recency bias here.

Are we really that far removed now to start diminishing just how good a team the '08 Celtics were?  The chemistry, the defensive ferociousness, the depth the utter dominance they played with at times? That is one of the all-time teams.

And the current Lakers don't do all of the things you mention?  Plus the Lakers would have the best player on the floor. 

[Donoghus]

No, they wouldn't.

I think California Bill has been out there too long now & is certainly guilty of recency bias here.

Are we really that far removed now to start diminishing just how good a team the '08 Celtics were?  The chemistry, the defensive ferociousness, the depth the utter dominance they played with at times? That is one of the all-time teams.

And the current Lakers don't do all of the things you mention?  Plus the Lakers would have the best player on the floor.

Not as well as the '08 Celtics.  I can tell you that. 

There's absolutely no way in hell that the '20 Lakers are beating the '08 Celtics in a 7 game series.

[Moranis]

He’s wrong. 2008 KG shuts down AD, and Pierce/Allen out score 2020 LeBron. I’d even take 2008 Rondo over 2020 Rondo given the speed/acceleration differential. 2008 Perk is on par with a 34 year old Dwight Howard. But the biggest difference is the 2008 bench, which would just obliterate the 2020 Lakers’ bench. In a 7-game series, the entire starting lineups cannot play 48 minutes every game, so bench strength matters.

Are we including Avery Bradley on the Lakers for this exercise or not?  With him starting (along with Lebron, Green, Davis, and McGee) the Lakers bench was Rondo, KCP, Caruso, Morris, Kuzma, and Howard.  That is a pretty solid bench. and that doesn't even get to Jared Dudley, Quinn Cook, Dion Waiters, or JR Smith (one of the latter two probably isn't on the team if Bradley is).  The Lakers this year actually had a pretty deep, varied, and well put together team.  They could play the match-ups because of that depth, which is why some players didn't play much in certain series while they did in others.

[Moranis]

No, they wouldn't.

I think California Bill has been out there too long now & is certainly guilty of recency bias here.

Are we really that far removed now to start diminishing just how good a team the '08 Celtics were?  The chemistry, the defensive ferociousness, the depth the utter dominance they played with at times? That is one of the all-time teams.

And the current Lakers don't do all of the things you mention?  Plus the Lakers would have the best player on the floor.

Not as well as the '08 Celtics.  I can tell you that. 

There's absolutely no way in hell that the '20 Lakers are beating the '08 Celtics in a 7 game series.

In your mind, are the Lakers this year better than the 08 Cavs?   To me it isn't close, the Lakers are better and that is a Cavs team that had Boston on the brink, and did so because Lebron James was the best player in the series, just as he would be in this matchup.  Frankly Davis is probably the 2nd best player in the series, though I could see an argument for KG.  When was the last time the team with the two best players in a series lost it?  I mean I honestly can't think of one unless you think Wade was better than Dirk in 11. 

[johnnygreen]

That 2008 Celtics team was incredible and would have beaten the 2020 Lakers. Who knows if this Lakers team would have won if there was no interruption to the season, and Lebron never had a few months of rest for the long playoff stretch. I feel like that 2008 Celtics team gets a bad rep because of the Atlanta and Cleveland series going 7. I still can’t explain why they couldn’t win on the road in those first two series, but they got better each series after that. By the time they reached the finals against the Lakers, the series never really felt close. BTW, Kobe did win the MVP that year, so you could claim the Lakers had the best player in the series. However, I still feel, Garnett had one of the most dominant seasons I have ever seen and easily deserved the MVP.

[Roy H.]

No, they wouldn't.

I think California Bill has been out there too long now & is certainly guilty of recency bias here.

Are we really that far removed now to start diminishing just how good a team the '08 Celtics were?  The chemistry, the defensive ferociousness, the depth the utter dominance they played with at times? That is one of the all-time teams.

And the current Lakers don't do all of the things you mention?  Plus the Lakers would have the best player on the floor.

Not as well as the '08 Celtics.  I can tell you that. 

There's absolutely no way in hell that the '20 Lakers are beating the '08 Celtics in a 7 game series.

In your mind, are the Lakers this year better than the 08 Cavs?   To me it isn't close, the Lakers are better and that is a Cavs team that had Boston on the brink, and did so because Lebron James was the best player in the series, just as he would be in this matchup.  Frankly Davis is probably the 2nd best player in the series, though I could see an argument for KG.  When was the last time the team with the two best players in a series lost it?  I mean I honestly can't think of one unless you think Wade was better than Dirk in 11.

.

The 2008 Lakers were better than the 2008 Cavs, too. 

[Moranis]

No, they wouldn't.

I think California Bill has been out there too long now & is certainly guilty of recency bias here.

Are we really that far removed now to start diminishing just how good a team the '08 Celtics were?  The chemistry, the defensive ferociousness, the depth the utter dominance they played with at times? That is one of the all-time teams.

And the current Lakers don't do all of the things you mention?  Plus the Lakers would have the best player on the floor.

Not as well as the '08 Celtics.  I can tell you that. 

There's absolutely no way in hell that the '20 Lakers are beating the '08 Celtics in a 7 game series.

In your mind, are the Lakers this year better than the 08 Cavs?   To me it isn't close, the Lakers are better and that is a Cavs team that had Boston on the brink, and did so because Lebron James was the best player in the series, just as he would be in this matchup.  Frankly Davis is probably the 2nd best player in the series, though I could see an argument for KG.  When was the last time the team with the two best players in a series lost it?  I mean I honestly can't think of one unless you think Wade was better than Dirk in 11.

.

The 2008 Lakers were better than the 2008 Cavs, too.

Sure, but Lebron was always a problem for the C's, which is why his vastly inferior teams always did quite well against the C's.  And you could pretty easily argue that the 2020 version of Lebron James is better than the 2008 version of Lebron James.  Not as athletic, but a lot more intelligent, more skilled overall, and a better shooter.

And I'll ask again, when was the last time a team lost a playoff series when it had to the two best players in the series because it is really rare.  I mean maybe you count 2014 Thunder losing to the Spurs (Durant and Westbrook were arguably the two best players in the series) or the 2011 Heat vs. the Mavs (where it was close between Dirk/Wade as 2nd best behind Lebron).  Before that it was probably the 04 Lakers losing to the Pistons in the Finals (Pretty much everyone would agree Shaq and Kobe were the two best players in that series).  And before that it might have been the 95 Bulls losing to the Magic in the 2nd round.  Pippen was 1st Team All NBA and Shaq was 2nd Team, so maybe you could at least argue Pippen was better than Shaq (though I wouldn't, as I think Shaq was better than Pippen even that year, but there is at least enough there you could argue it, similar to the Dirk/Wade concept from 11).  It happened a few times in the 80's (Sixers losing to Nets in 84, Celtics losing to Bucks in 83), but still very rare.  It just doesn't happen very often.  Sure this hypothetically may be one of those rare times, but it is extremely rare.