The Kyrie Irving free agency thread(to sign 4yr/$141M w/Nets page 105)

[gpap]

Jaylen have shown last year that he can be an alpha until he hurt himself. There is also still the draft. But while Danny had drafted decent players, they are very flawed in some ways.

- Olynyk, the guy we draft over Giannis is smart and unselfish but a soft, mentally weak player.
- Rozier, while have all the athletic gifts seems to have a low BBIQ
- Smart is the heart and soul of this team but he cannot be relied consistently on the offensive end.
- Tatum have the chance to be that alpha, but he looks more like Harrison Barnes to me so far.

In case Kyrie leaves, I think Danny should try to slide down the draft and roll the dice with Ja Morant or Coby White. Otherwise, replace the bad fit role players (Rozier) with a potentially solid young prospect who could contribute right away.

Which is why I'd have no issue dealing Tatum, Smart, Robert Williams, filler and picks for Davis. As much as I want to root for Tatum to be a cornerstone with Kyrie, sometimes I wonder if he "gets it." I am an even bigger fan of Marcus because he has the heart of a giant. HOWEVER, that's also the type of player that you begrudgingly need to give up to improve because other teams will want him as well. Plus, you can count on Marcus to make a couple trips to the injured list every year.

And I'd tell Rozier to go pound sand with a layer of bricks hidden underneath.

A lineup of Irving/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Davis would kill it next year!!! And I also feel a line-up like that would fall into place and we wouldn't have players trying to jockey for more minutes like we had this year.

[gpap]

IF Kyrie stays...offer Tatum, picks, whatever for Davis. They need him to get through the east next year (basically going to be Philly and the Bucks.

If they can't get AD and Kyrie stays, build with your youth, I would make an offer for Beal using the picks. Boston needs outside shooting.

Plan C is Kyrie leaves. then you just build around the youth, make the picks.

In the words of Eck, "yuck!"

[gpap]

I think he stays. Celtics have all the pieces to build a contender in the east...whether it is develop Tatum/Brown or go out and get Anthony Davis.

If you end up with a lineup of Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Davis that is a really solid team to get out of the east.

Ditto!! See my post above. Agree 1000%

[gpap]

At one point I made a trade on how the Celtics could get KD and Kyrie. Although this may sound too good to be true to some people, the main thing I wanted to demonstrate is that’s the Celtics are in position to trade for 2 max contracts. They can literally obtain anyone by offering youth and picks. We have enough salary cap on our team to match with anyone. Even if you feel like No team would like Gordy, but I’m sure that even in the state he’s still good enough to start on most teams, especially as he gets more comfortable.

If Kyrie and AD are ok this roster, they may look to add another high value asset, who really knows. All I’m saying is that’s it’s POSSIBLE. I always think back how we got KG and Ray. Even a team which just the addition of AD and the subtraction of Tatum is good, but I feel empty. I feel like we can still obtain a Beal, or Booker, or a Westbrook (if they want to blow it up we could be in position)


Or something like this if no 3rd team is involved.
http://tradenba.com/trades/SyIV2XijV

I find the notion that Gordy has to be traded nonsensical. He's the perfect compliment to AD and Kyrie, if Brad lets him play his game. Especially if we lose both Tatum and Smart/Brown

Agreed re: Hayward. Let’s also pump the brakes on the “Hayward looks soooo good now,” which I’ve heard in the media. Yeah, better than the start of the season, but Gordon was a bad man in Utah who dunked on fools and piled up and-1s. That guy is not here yet. Hopefully he’ll be much closer to that next season, and that’s as good of a “second pickup” as we could ask for if that happens. If we trade for Davis and keep Kyrie, Gordon gains some explosiveness back, that’s a team that looks really good on paper AND has defined roles.

Exactly! Which is why it makes too much sense for Smart and Tatum to be the two main outgoing pieces in a potential AD trade. With a lineup of Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Davis, you have balance and clearly defined roles (as you mentioned.)

[rollie mass]

What an piece of magic that is!!!The deceleration is pure Kyrie.

[Big333223]

Kyrie has always been most likely staying. Sports media (and all media) in incentivized to create drama to draw eyeballs. I don't think the chances that Kyrie was going to leave ever got more than 10% at the most but that's a boring story.

For those thinking we can somehow land Durant in a sign and trade, sign and trading for Durant hard caps the Celtics since they will most likely be at the apron.

If Durant opts into the second year of his deal, then it's not a sign and trade, no?

[RazzelnoDazzel]

I think he stays. Celtics have all the pieces to build a contender in the east...whether it is develop Tatum/Brown or go out and get Anthony Davis.

If you end up with a lineup of Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Davis that is a really solid team to get out of the east.

Ditto!! See my post above. Agree 1000%

And what if Gordon still isn’t right and isn’t mixing well with AD and Kyrie because he’s just too slow and or isn’t mentally ready to be a 1st/2nd scoring option? Then by time playoffs come he’s still “adjusting” which is eventually why we end up losing again? Listen Gordon is a gamble all I’m saying is that if we can eliminate the risk then why not go for it? Wether he comes to form or not it won’t hurt us to replace him with another all-star without an injury history 🤷🏽‍♂️. If this doesn’t make sense to people then idk what more to say.

[nickagneta]

Kyrie has always been most likely staying. Sports media (and all media) in incentivized to create drama to draw eyeballs. I don't think the chances that Kyrie was going to leave ever got more than 10% at the most but that's a boring story.

For those thinking we can somehow land Durant in a sign and trade, sign and trading for Durant hard caps the Celtics since they will most likely be at the apron.

If Durant opts into the second year of his deal, then it's not a sign and trade, no?

True, but Durant would be giving up nearly $6-8 million to do that and he would need to opt in before June 29th and have already gotten GSW and Boston on board with doing the trade after he opts in. I don't see that as likely. If the trade isn't 100% agreed upon before the he has to opt in, it makes no sense for Durant to give up control of his contract

[gpap]

I think he stays. Celtics have all the pieces to build a contender in the east...whether it is develop Tatum/Brown or go out and get Anthony Davis.

If you end up with a lineup of Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Davis that is a really solid team to get out of the east.

Ditto!! See my post above. Agree 1000%

And what if Gordon still isn’t right and isn’t mixing well with AD and Kyrie because he’s just too slow and or isn’t mentally ready to be a 1st/2nd scoring option? Then by time playoffs come he’s still “adjusting” which is eventually why we end up losing again? Listen Gordon is a gamble all I’m saying is that if we can eliminate the risk then why not go for it? Wether he comes to form or not it won’t hurt us to replace him with another all-star without an injury history 🤷🏽‍♂️. If this doesn’t make sense to people then idk what more to say.

Part of the issue with Hayward has been that we have a mis-matched roster. That's been a problem since opening night. Way too many wing players. When that happens, guys minutes get cut and they're put in situations where it's VERY hard to succeed. I agree that Hayward has been underwhelming and have mentioned that many times myself. However, it's not so clear-cut as "oh he sucks" or "oh he's injury prone." I just think alot of times, Brad is trying to distribute minutes as evenly as possible and it's affecting the quality of play. Also, when Danny signed Hayward, no one foresaw him breaking his leg his first night as a Celtic with Tatum doing such a good job filling in for a rookie.

But right now, despite Tatum's good first half last night, I would strongly consider starting Hayward. Nothing to lose. Tatum has been inconsistent this season and Hayward is too good of a proven player to let him rot on the bench with inconsistent minutes.

[ozgod]

For those thinking we can somehow land Durant in a sign and trade, sign and trading for Durant hard caps the Celtics since they will most likely be at the apron. Hardcapping means most likely trading off players for salary relief and tremendously limiting our ability to sign other players.

Durant will not be on this team next year. It is a complete and total pipe dream that will not happen.

Pipe dream or not it can happen is the point. At this point with the Celtics we will have issues signing players anyway, so we might as well max out salaries and go for the home run.

No it can't happen. Because the Celtics would need to basically sell off players for nothing and no, not players like Williams or Semi. I am talking like having to trade away a Smart or Tatum or Brown, sell off the draft picks and get nothing back in return and have no recourse to help the team if there are injuries.

It's impossible because Danny Ainge isn't stupid enough to do it. If you don't have a GM dumb enough to do something like that, you have no possibly of it happening.

I mean it depends what you get man.. idk why y’all think we have to trade everything we have for 1 person....we really don’t have to do that at all and that’s the point in the trades that I post, but people like you still cannot see past it. So I’ll play a game with you, would you trade Tatum, Smart, Rozier, Mem pick for Davis?

If the answer is yes, then you are left with

Kyrie - Wanamaker
Brown -
Hayward - Morris
Davis - Theis
Horford - Time Lord


Sac pick, LAC pick, all of Bos picks.....

The trade would most likely be Tatum, Smart and Sacramento and LAC's picks. Maybe a future first rounder, not Memphis.

That works and is line with Griffin's remark of wanting a young stud with superstar potential(Tatum), a veteran role player that can help lead the youth(Smart) and picks.

That leaves

Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Davis

Plus

Baynes, Williams, Semi, Yabu, Boston first rounder, MLE player, bring back Morris, a couple of veteran min players. Maybe the MLE player is Patrick Beverly and the vets are Vince Cater and Jared Dudley.

That all makes sense. It gives the team a real hierarchy on offense:

1 Davis
1A Kyrie
3 Hayward
3A Brown
5 Horford
6 Morris
Everyone else.

I have a question, Nick: with that team, whose team is it? Is it Kyrie's or AD's? Or will it be a co-leader kind of thing like Steph and KD, with Steph being the face of the franchise?

I don't know if Kyrie will be willing to go second fiddle to anyone, not even AD.

I will say I like the team though, it's what I figured we would end up with after the trade (except maybe Morris, but we can probably afford to pay him his $15m since he has versatility and we're losing some other guys.

[nickagneta]

For those thinking we can somehow land Durant in a sign and trade, sign and trading for Durant hard caps the Celtics since they will most likely be at the apron. Hardcapping means most likely trading off players for salary relief and tremendously limiting our ability to sign other players.

Durant will not be on this team next year. It is a complete and total pipe dream that will not happen.

Pipe dream or not it can happen is the point. At this point with the Celtics we will have issues signing players anyway, so we might as well max out salaries and go for the home run.

No it can't happen. Because the Celtics would need to basically sell off players for nothing and no, not players like Williams or Semi. I am talking like having to trade away a Smart or Tatum or Brown, sell off the draft picks and get nothing back in return and have no recourse to help the team if there are injuries.

It's impossible because Danny Ainge isn't stupid enough to do it. If you don't have a GM dumb enough to do something like that, you have no possibly of it happening.

I mean it depends what you get man.. idk why y’all think we have to trade everything we have for 1 person....we really don’t have to do that at all and that’s the point in the trades that I post, but people like you still cannot see past it. So I’ll play a game with you, would you trade Tatum, Smart, Rozier, Mem pick for Davis?

If the answer is yes, then you are left with

Kyrie - Wanamaker
Brown -
Hayward - Morris
Davis - Theis
Horford - Time Lord


Sac pick, LAC pick, all of Bos picks.....

The trade would most likely be Tatum, Smart and Sacramento and LAC's picks. Maybe a future first rounder, not Memphis.

That works and is line with Griffin's remark of wanting a young stud with superstar potential(Tatum), a veteran role player that can help lead the youth(Smart) and picks.

That leaves

Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Davis

Plus

Baynes, Williams, Semi, Yabu, Boston first rounder, MLE player, bring back Morris, a couple of veteran min players. Maybe the MLE player is Patrick Beverly and the vets are Vince Cater and Jared Dudley.

That all makes sense. It gives the team a real hierarchy on offense:

1 Davis
1A Kyrie
3 Hayward
3A Brown
5 Horford
6 Morris
Everyone else.

I have a question, Nick: with that team, whose team is it? Is it Kyrie's or AD's? Or will it be a co-leader kind of thing like Steph and KD, with Steph being the face of the franchise?

I don't know if Kyrie will be willing to go second fiddle to anyone, not even AD.

I will say I like the team though, it's what I figured we would end up with after the trade (except maybe Morris, but we can probably afford to pay him his $15m since he has versatility and we're losing some other guys.

The easy answer is it will be Kyrie's team but the number one offensive option will be Davis, but only slightly more than Kyrie.

Unlike Durant with Steph, or other superstars like George, Kawhi, Giannis, etc. is that those players can bring up the ball and initiate their own offense. Create their own offense. Davis can't do that.

Davis works best by getting his position and feeding it too him. He will be reliant on the rest of the team to get him the ball. I only hope Stevens gets rid of his "every open shot is a good shot no matter who is shooting it" offense and learns he needs for Davis to be fed, used in the pick n roll quite bit with Kyrie and that Davis, Kyrie, Hayward and Brown will be needing to take most of the shots.

[keevsnick]

For those thinking we can somehow land Durant in a sign and trade, sign and trading for Durant hard caps the Celtics since they will most likely be at the apron. Hardcapping means most likely trading off players for salary relief and tremendously limiting our ability to sign other players.

Durant will not be on this team next year. It is a complete and total pipe dream that will not happen.

Pipe dream or not it can happen is the point. At this point with the Celtics we will have issues signing players anyway, so we might as well max out salaries and go for the home run.

No it can't happen. Because the Celtics would need to basically sell off players for nothing and no, not players like Williams or Semi. I am talking like having to trade away a Smart or Tatum or Brown, sell off the draft picks and get nothing back in return and have no recourse to help the team if there are injuries.

It's impossible because Danny Ainge isn't stupid enough to do it. If you don't have a GM dumb enough to do something like that, you have no possibly of it happening.

I mean it depends what you get man.. idk why y’all think we have to trade everything we have for 1 person....we really don’t have to do that at all and that’s the point in the trades that I post, but people like you still cannot see past it. So I’ll play a game with you, would you trade Tatum, Smart, Rozier, Mem pick for Davis?

If the answer is yes, then you are left with

Kyrie - Wanamaker
Brown -
Hayward - Morris
Davis - Theis
Horford - Time Lord


Sac pick, LAC pick, all of Bos picks.....

The trade would most likely be Tatum, Smart and Sacramento and LAC's picks. Maybe a future first rounder, not Memphis.

That works and is line with Griffin's remark of wanting a young stud with superstar potential(Tatum), a veteran role player that can help lead the youth(Smart) and picks.

That leaves

Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Davis

Plus

Baynes, Williams, Semi, Yabu, Boston first rounder, MLE player, bring back Morris, a couple of veteran min players. Maybe the MLE player is Patrick Beverly and the vets are Vince Cater and Jared Dudley.

That all makes sense. It gives the team a real hierarchy on offense:

1 Davis
1A Kyrie
3 Hayward
3A Brown
5 Horford
6 Morris
Everyone else.

I have a question, Nick: with that team, whose team is it? Is it Kyrie's or AD's? Or will it be a co-leader kind of thing like Steph and KD, with Steph being the face of the franchise?

I don't know if Kyrie will be willing to go second fiddle to anyone, not even AD.

I will say I like the team though, it's what I figured we would end up with after the trade (except maybe Morris, but we can probably afford to pay him his $15m since he has versatility and we're losing some other guys.

Kyrie better cbe willing to be the second fiddle, because as a first fiddle he isn't good enough if the goal is to win it all. And that's not an insult, there are like 7-8 guys who are, and it remains to be seen if AD is.

[LarBrd33]

Kyrie stay.  Everyone else gone. 

Brace yourself for the culling.

[mr. dee]

At one point I made a trade on how the Celtics could get KD and Kyrie. Although this may sound too good to be true to some people, the main thing I wanted to demonstrate is that’s the Celtics are in position to trade for 2 max contracts. They can literally obtain anyone by offering youth and picks. We have enough salary cap on our team to match with anyone. Even if you feel like No team would like Gordy, but I’m sure that even in the state he’s still good enough to start on most teams, especially as he gets more comfortable.

If Kyrie and AD are ok this roster, they may look to add another high value asset, who really knows. All I’m saying is that’s it’s POSSIBLE. I always think back how we got KG and Ray. Even a team which just the addition of AD and the subtraction of Tatum is good, but I feel empty. I feel like we can still obtain a Beal, or Booker, or a Westbrook (if they want to blow it up we could be in position)


Or something like this if no 3rd team is involved.
http://tradenba.com/trades/SyIV2XijV

I find the notion that Gordy has to be traded nonsensical. He's the perfect compliment to AD and Kyrie, if Brad lets him play his game. Especially if we lose both Tatum and Smart/Brown

Agreed re: Hayward. Let’s also pump the brakes on the “Hayward looks soooo good now,” which I’ve heard in the media. Yeah, better than the start of the season, but Gordon was a bad man in Utah who dunked on fools and piled up and-1s. That guy is not here yet. Hopefully he’ll be much closer to that next season, and that’s as good of a “second pickup” as we could ask for if that happens. If we trade for Davis and keep Kyrie, Gordon gains some explosiveness back, that’s a team that looks really good on paper AND has defined roles.

Exactly! Which is why it makes too much sense for Smart and Tatum to be the two main outgoing pieces in a potential AD trade. With a lineup of Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Davis, you have balance and clearly defined roles (as you mentioned.)

Trust me, you wouldn't want to trade defensive cogs on a contender. It didn't worked back then, it clearly won't work now. AD is a premier talent but the league is now perimeter oriented. Back with the KG trade, KG specifically requested that Rondo should stay because he like how fierce young Rondo was. And Tony Allen were also retained and provided us a defensive tenacity on what's already a deep defensive team.

I'm not saying don't trade for AD, but you would want to keep impact players on your team. AB was traded because he can't stay healthy. Smart was healthy for majority of the season. Crowder was traded because he doesn't have much impact and is unhappy with his future roles.

All fell apart when James Posey, another scrappy player left for another team. Talent is nice, but you would prefer to retain scrappy, hard-nosed glue guys in a contending team. So far the Bucks series showed that we needed toughness when things aren't going our way and Smart have provided that for past few years.

[nickagneta]

At one point I made a trade on how the Celtics could get KD and Kyrie. Although this may sound too good to be true to some people, the main thing I wanted to demonstrate is that’s the Celtics are in position to trade for 2 max contracts. They can literally obtain anyone by offering youth and picks. We have enough salary cap on our team to match with anyone. Even if you feel like No team would like Gordy, but I’m sure that even in the state he’s still good enough to start on most teams, especially as he gets more comfortable.

If Kyrie and AD are ok this roster, they may look to add another high value asset, who really knows. All I’m saying is that’s it’s POSSIBLE. I always think back how we got KG and Ray. Even a team which just the addition of AD and the subtraction of Tatum is good, but I feel empty. I feel like we can still obtain a Beal, or Booker, or a Westbrook (if they want to blow it up we could be in position)


Or something like this if no 3rd team is involved.
http://tradenba.com/trades/SyIV2XijV

I find the notion that Gordy has to be traded nonsensical. He's the perfect compliment to AD and Kyrie, if Brad lets him play his game. Especially if we lose both Tatum and Smart/Brown

Agreed re: Hayward. Let’s also pump the brakes on the “Hayward looks soooo good now,” which I’ve heard in the media. Yeah, better than the start of the season, but Gordon was a bad man in Utah who dunked on fools and piled up and-1s. That guy is not here yet. Hopefully he’ll be much closer to that next season, and that’s as good of a “second pickup” as we could ask for if that happens. If we trade for Davis and keep Kyrie, Gordon gains some explosiveness back, that’s a team that looks really good on paper AND has defined roles.

Exactly! Which is why it makes too much sense for Smart and Tatum to be the two main outgoing pieces in a potential AD trade. With a lineup of Kyrie/Brown/Hayward/Horford/Davis, you have balance and clearly defined roles (as you mentioned.)

Trust me, you wouldn't want to trade defensive cogs on a contender. It didn't worked back then, it clearly won't work now. AD is a premier talent but the league is now perimeter oriented. Back with the KG trade, KG specifically requested that Rondo should stay because he like how fierce young Rondo was. And Tony Allen were also retained and provided us a defensive tenacity on what's already a deep defensive team.

I'm not saying don't trade for AD, but you would want to keep impact players on your team. AB was traded because he can't stay healthy. Smart was healthy for majority of the season. Crowder was traded because he doesn't have much impact and is unhappy with his future roles.

All fell apart when James Posey, another scrappy player left for another team. Talent is nice, but you would prefer to retain scrappy, hard-nosed glue guys in a contending team. So far the Bucks series showed that we needed toughness when things aren't going our way and Smart have provided that for past few years.

Brown has shown he has that toughness and can be an impact defensive player. And Davis is a first team All-NBA type defender. Add Horford's exceptional 2nd team All-Defense quality defense and Hayward's better than average defense and the starters will most likely be a league best two way unit.

And Tatum is not a defensive cog. If anything, this past year, Tatum has regressed into our poorest starting defender as Kyrie's defense is much, much better and Tatum took a clear step backwards on that end.