Say OKC gets booted , would they trade Westbrook for Rondo then ? and would you?

[D.o.s.]

I'll keep trying as I have, but when I'm done do I also need to explain why Superman would beat Aquaman in a fight, even in the water?

Yeah, just not buyin' it.

[Eja117]

I'll keep trying as I have, but when I'm done do I also need to explain why Superman would beat Aquaman in a fight, even in the water?

Yeah, just not buyin' it.

Ok, that's fine. I won't explain why Superman would beat Aquaman in a fight, even in the water.  I mean there are some people that spend a lot of time watching Aquaman, and that makes them an expert on this topic, and feel that Superman probably wouldn't be able to execute his offense in the water just right, and feel that Batman is really the leader of the Justice League anyway, so you couldn't expect Superman to win in such a scenario, and hey....it's only Superman we're talking about. I mean maybe there's a lot of kryptonite in that there water.

[Eja117]

How is Rondo going to magically make Ibaka better?  His main source of offense is from midrange jumpers off feeds from Westbrook, Jackson, or Durant and feeds right at the basket for a lay-up or dunk.  Is Rondo's presence suddenly going to add layers to his game, making him much stronger off the dribble and allow him to develop an actual post game?

Yeah, I'm just not buying it.

Maybe Perkin's immediate and significant regression the second he got to OKC was just a coincidence. His fg% went from .542 to .493.
Look at a guy like Humph. His fg% this year was the second highest of his career. Which half of the season was he better? First half without Rondo, or 2nd half with. His minutes are almost the same as last year, but his points, fg%, assists....all up. 

[Eja117]

For sure, that's why, for the fourth or fifth time, I'll repeat: I'd prefer to have a point guard like Rondo over Westbrook.

That's not a mutually exclusive sentiment from -- Rondo wouldn't make the Thunder better than they are with Westbrook.

You'd prefer Rondo over Westbrook, but Rondo wouldn't make the Thunder any better. 

Again....the part I'm not getting is how you replace an inefficient ball hog like Westbrook, with an all star like Rondo and not get better.

Rondo isn't the best shooter in the world. Neither is Westbrook. They generate similar amounts of offense. One of them gets more people involved in the process. One of them also plays better defense.

But he wouldn't make the Thunder better becauuuuusssee....Scott Brooks or the system or something.   

So just out of curiosity...if we can get a time machine and bring young John Stockton here will he also not make the Thunder better because he doesn't score enough and doesn't fit the system?

[D.o.s.]

Westbrook is also an All-Star. He also played better defense last season. Westbrook is much more likely to make another All-Star team before Rondo.

Explain "generates similar amounts of offense." Be detailed when you say "inefficient" Otherwise the first is a throwaway statement and the second is basically "westbrook shoots too much", which isn't anything beyond a subjective measuring of what you think a point guard should be doing presented as an objective reason why Rondo would improve the team's offense.


John Stockton would definitely make the Thunder better. Rondo's no John Stockton, he's not even the best point guard in the league. I still like his game more than Westbrook's.

[BballTim]

Westbrook is also an All-Star. He also played better defense last season. Westbrook is much more likely to make another All-Star team before Rondo.

Explain "generates similar amounts of offense." Be detailed when you say "inefficient" Otherwise the first is a throwaway statement and the second is basically "westbrook shoots too much", which isn't anything beyond a subjective measuring of what you think a point guard should be doing presented as an objective reason why Rondo would improve the team's offense.

  "generates a similar amount of offense" would refer to scoring and assists. "Westbrook shoots too much" is probably based on the fact that he takes so many shots compared to teammates who generally score more efficiently than he does. That doesn't concern you at all, it does some people.

[jambr380]

Watching Westbrook play, I see many good things - the energy, aggression, rebounding, etc, but it just seems as though he doesn't understand playoff basketball. He can keep trying to force the issue and maybe OKC will come back and win the series, but I just don't see his style of play taking OKC to a championship as the primary ball handler.

The more I watch, the more I see the Josh Smith of PGs. I understand he's better than Smith - he has so many tools, but just doesn't always use them the right way.

[Vox_Populi]

Lol

[celticmania]

Whoever argues that Rondo is better than Westbrook is a homer. Just face it, Westbrook is better. Okc would not do that deal. Yeah Westbrook jacks a bunch of shots but at least he can make them. Rondo is probably the worst shooting starting pg in the league. And yeah he gets alot of assists but thatd because he doesnt pass unless he thinks he will get the assist. Also he holds the rock for 20 seconds everytime up the floor. Just because he gets a bunch of assists, it doesnt mean he makes an offense betfer. Especially when he cant shoot. The spacing is awful. And he gives absolutely no effort defensively. I love the Cs but ive never been a fan of Rondo. You guys can be mad all you want. Im just being real

[mmmmm]

Also worth pointing out: while Rondo garnered some All-Defense awards playing with KG, his defensive level has been well below Westbrook's over this last season. I'm not sure that you can just wash your hands of that quite so easily by saying "well he's not healthy yet," since the disparity was pretty substantial over the regular season, despite both of them coming back from injuries and being subject to rust.

http://bkref.com/tiny/5sa2c

Rondo's defensive rating this year was indeed not good.  In 998 minutes of play, opponents scored 1.122 points per possession.

But it's interesting to note who he had on the floor with him.

His most-used 5-man units all had Jared Bayless as his backcourt mate.   That combination accounted for over a third of Rondo's minutes (373) and gave up a pretty awful 1.181 points per possession.

With Bradley as his backcourt partner (324 minutes) their defensive rating was 1.092 points per possession.   Over 100 possessions, that's a 9 point swing.

Now, lest you think it was just a case of Bradley making Rondo look good, it's important to note that the back-court pair of Bradley and Bayless was also bad at 1.116.

None of our guard combinations had particularly good defensive ratings this year - but a large part of that has to do with how awful our interior defense was.  If you select down to using our at least nominally good defensive front court of Green+Sullinger+Humphries, then the RR+AB defensive rating was a fantastic 0.903 points per possession.  Simply swap Humphries out and Bass in, and it was a dramatically different 1.084!!!

Basically, the huge variances in our lineups and their varied performances throughout the year make trying to say definitive things about player defense very difficult.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Westbrook is talented, no doubt, but he hasn't exactly proven himself to be a clutch, big-time playoff performer (other than point totals), whereas Rondo has come up big time and again.

then you aren't paying attention.  Against the Heat in the 2012 finals, Westbrook improved his season averages across the board in that series, upping his boards to 6.4, assists to 6.6, and points to 27.0.  All three fairly significant increases from his season averages that year.

Point taken, but that's only one series (albeit a big one). No doubt he's a better scorer than Rondo, but I see Rondo as the better passer and rebounder, and as having more intangibles than Westbrook.

[D.o.s.]

Also worth pointing out: while Rondo garnered some All-Defense awards playing with KG, his defensive level has been well below Westbrook's over this last season. I'm not sure that you can just wash your hands of that quite so easily by saying "well he's not healthy yet," since the disparity was pretty substantial over the regular season, despite both of them coming back from injuries and being subject to rust.

http://bkref.com/tiny/5sa2c

Rondo's defensive rating this year was indeed not good.  In 998 minutes of play, opponents scored 1.122 points per possession.

But it's interesting to note who he had on the floor with him.

His most-used 5-man units all had Jared Bayless as his backcourt mate.   That combination accounted for over a third of Rondo's minutes (373) and gave up a pretty awful 1.181 points per possession.

With Bradley as his backcourt partner (324 minutes) their defensive rating was 1.092 points per possession.   Over 100 possessions, that's a 9 point swing.

Now, lest you think it was just a case of Bradley making Rondo look good, it's important to note that the back-court pair of Bradley and Bayless was also bad at 1.116.

None of our guard combinations had particularly good defensive ratings this year - but a large part of that has to do with how awful our interior defense was.  If you select down to using our at least nominally good defensive front court of Green+Sullinger+Humphries, then the RR+AB defensive rating was a fantastic 0.903 points per possession.  Simply swap Humphries out and Bass in, and it was a dramatically different 1.084!!!

Basically, the huge variances in our lineups and their varied performances throughout the year make trying to say definitive things about player defense very difficult.

Right, that's why I poised the question earlier in the thread -- Do you *random poster* think that Rondo will continue to win All-Defense awards now that he's not playing with Kevin Garnett?


Personally, I would lean towards "no", but you're right -- we need to see Rondo play with a more consistent lineup before we can draw any serious conclusions.

[D.o.s.]

Lol

That legitimately made me laugh out loud. TP.

[Mr October]

Lol. TP for Vox for the image.

I would take Westbrook over Rondo. Both players bring a ton to the table in imperfect ways. I think Westbrook brings more with his relentless style of play and scoring ability.

However with Westbrook's size and ability to score, perhaps he is best served as a  ball dominant scoring 2 guard, like Dwyane Wade.

[Eja117]

Westbrook is also an All-Star. He also played better defense last season. Westbrook is much more likely to make another All-Star team before Rondo.

Explain "generates similar amounts of offense." Be detailed when you say "inefficient" Otherwise the first is a throwaway statement and the second is basically "westbrook shoots too much", which isn't anything beyond a subjective measuring of what you think a point guard should be doing presented as an objective reason why Rondo would improve the team's offense.


John Stockton would definitely make the Thunder better. Rondo's no John Stockton, he's not even the best point guard in the league. I still like his game more than Westbrook's.

Wait a second. I thought you follow basketball. But you need "generates similar amounts of offense" and "inefficient" explained to you?   Soooo...which is it? Do you follow basketball or do you need these explained to you?

Hey I get that you don't buy that Superman could beat Aquaman in a fight even in water. Do you think maybe that's part of the problem?