Are you loving the Tatum and Brown era yet?

[cman88]

"As I've said many times this year, our five best players are really clear. Everything we do has got to be focused around complementing them and maximizing them."

- Brad Stevens after last nights game

I think all those guys will get their shots. The hierarchy is much clearer this year with no Kyrie/Rozier/Morris. If anyone loses shots or opportunities, it’s going to be the guys off the bench. I think the Jays, Kemba, and Gordo are gonna get theirs.

they all got theirs when gordon was playing. so I expect that to continue. Likely they will get theirs on a higher percentage once gordon comes back because less attention will be given to the Jays when you have another guy shooting 55% total, 43% from 3 and averaging 19ppg on the court. despite our winning percentage, I think the team misses Gordons passing/running the offense as it hasnt been humming as well as it was when Gordon was leading the charge.

Glad to see that quote that brad has learned the mistakes of last year where I feel he prioritized keeping "everyone happy" rather than prioritizing letting your best players take the most shots...which in turn lead to guys like Morriz/rozier sometimes taking more shots than tatum/brown. And stunting their growth somewhat.

[KGs Knee]

I love Jayson Tatum and Marcus Smart. The rest I am rather indifferent about, and could be traded tomorrow, and I would care as long as the return was worth it.

[arctic 3.0]

I love Jayson Tatum and Marcus Smart. The rest I am rather indifferent about, and could be traded tomorrow, and I would care as long as the return was worth it.

Wow

[NKY fan]

I love the new “era” . But are we one piece away from being top contenders?

[GreenCoffeeBean]

I love the new “era” . But are we one piece away from being top contenders?

I'm not a fan of becoming the top contender by adding pieces. I like when you become the top contender because you slayed the dragon.

[NKY fan]

I love the new “era” . But are we one piece away from being top contenders?

I'm not a fan of becoming the top contender by adding pieces. I like when you become the top contender because you slayed the dragon.

There are 3 two headed dragons in the west we need to slay plus giannis and embiid in the east.... that’s a lot of slaying to do lol 

[coco]

Love it.  This is what I was hoping for.  Not sure I can call it a leap, but certainly the chemistry is there.

Having said that, I think we have to find a way to keep Hayward and keep a BIG 4 scoring threat.

[Rosco917]

We’ll be even better when our best wing returns

Lol perfect.

Amen

[nickagneta]

The bad news is when Hayward returns, Jaylen will get less shot attempts.

I was curious because people always say this as a negative effect to a key player coming back - that they will take shots and opportunities away from the other guys. So I checked. Here are the FGAs of our top 6 wing/ball handler players in FGA. I averaged their FGA pre- and post-Hayward injury.



Note these averages are based on games played in.

Hayward was averaging 13.8 FGA in 8 games before his injury, well below Tatum and Kemba and around the same as Jaylen. Jaylen goes from 13.4 FGA to 15.8 FGA in Hayward's absence, and the pre-Hayward numbers are probably skewed by the fact that he stumbled a bit coming into the season and only played 5 games with Gordon. Tatum's FGA hasn't changed, he's averaged 18 all the way through. Kemba's has actually dropped from 18.3 to 16.5 (skewed by his Denver game where he got injured). I suspect if you look at minutes played (which I could, I was a bit lazy to put it in a spreadsheet but I can if people are interested) their numbers won't be all that different pre- and post-Hayward injury.

The increase is more marked in the players who have benefited the most from Gordon's absence - Smart, Wanamaker and Semi, and guys like Edwards and GWill to a lesser extent. Smart goes from 9.5 to 11.3, Wanamaker from 2.9 to 6.3, and Semi from 1 to 3.3. I'm sure if I looked at some of the other guys who benefited from those minutes, you'll see their FGA up as well.

Our top 4 shooters are (in rough FGA order) Tatum, Kemba, Brown and Hayward. They're going to get their shots up. I don't see any reason that would change because Gordon's coming back. I don't think any of those guys will be thinking "oh noes! my FGA is going to go down because G is coming back to take some of them". I think they'll be thinking "with G back I'm going to get better looks because a) he's unselfish and has a pass-first mentality and b) he knows how to drive and find the open man".

It's going to be the supporting guys, Wanamaker, Smart, Semi, among others, who will probably find some minutes squeezed and consequently will probably see a drop in their shots. It's unfortunate but it's the way it is.

PS Gratz on your 2000 

Yeah its hard to draw really any conclusion regarding Browns FG attempts with/without hayward, the sample is too small. That first game he was in foul trouble literally the entirely game and then the other low FG game was his first back after the sickness. The other three hayward games were fairly high volume.

I tend to agree, its gonna be more bench guys who lose chances like and give how those guys have struggled offensively that will help this this team a lot.

I agree it's a small sample size.

But ozgod's data showed Brown went from 13.4 FGA, before Hayward got hurt, to 15.8 FGA after Hayward got hurt.

Reason why I think Jaylen will get lesser shot attempts is Jaylen will also get lesser minutes once Hayward returns.

It will be Jaylen and Smart who will be greatly affected by Hayward's return.

I think Hayward will slot right into Semi's position in the lineup if Semi was starting. Meaning he would be on the court with that Tatum-centric bench unit of Wanamaker, Edwards, Tatum, and Timelord. So, my guess is this will be when Hayward gets a lot of shots so I could see Tatum's and Edwards' and Wanamaker's shots being eaten up by Hayward, as well as Semi's. And, of course, when Hayward is on the floor with the starters he will take some Smart shots away, obviously since Smart won't be on the court at end of halves anymore.

So, I think because of the substitution patterns, Hayward might end up on the floor more with Tatum than with Brown, Walker or Smart meaning he probably is most likely to take away Tatum's shots out of all the other top players.

[gpap]

I was at the game last night and both guys tore the house down.

I'm especially happy for Jaylen Brown. I kinda feel like he's been through alot. Alot of people weren't happy when the Celts drafted him over a scorer like Murray or Hield (me included.)

Even into his 2nd and 3rd year, he was sort of stuck between coming off the bench and starting with no consistent role.

Now, he's found his niche and has made a HUGE fan out of me.

To me, Jaylen and Kemba are the two guys I'm most happiest about and for.

[sgrogan]

PLAYER   MPG   FGA   PPG
Theis   20   5   7
Kanter   16   5   7
RWIII   12   2   3
Tatum   34   18   22
Hayward   32   14   18
Brown   32   14   18
Kemba   32   18   22
Smart   32   8   8
Semi/GW   15   3   3
BW/CE   15   4   4
VP/Tacko         
JG/RL/TW         
TOTAL   240   91   112

Seems reasonable

[W8ting2McHale]

I would like to see how many shots per game as a team that we are taking with Hayward playing versus with him out of the line up.

Hayward is such a great facilitator in our offense that I will assume (didn’t look yet myself) that we shoot more efficiently and possibly shoot more, when he plays. It might be only 3-5 more shots a game, but my reasoning is this; a bulk of Hayward’s opportunities have gone to Semi and the others playing in his stead. That accounts for 8-10 shots a game that they are taking instead of Hayward. Jaylen is taking 2-3 more shots a game, so that’s still less than what Hayward was taking alone, so it seems like the team is taking fewer shots without him as a whole, even if it’s only 3-5 per game less.

Seems like we would have won a close game or two with Hayward on the floor simply for that reason alone? Probably. I think Hayward will slot right in without any fall off, and I don’t think Jaylen will suffer fewer shots. Tatum could take 2 fewer a game so Brown can continue at his pace and the shots he takes will be more efficient with Hayward facilitating so he’s point totals won’t drop significantly if at all.

I expected that Kemba would average 23-24, Tatum 20-21, Brown 18-20 and Hayward 18-20 before the season started and so far they are right in line to do that. I expect it to continue unless we have significant injuries.

[sgrogan]

I would like to see how many shots per game as a team that we are taking with Hayward playing versus with him out of the line up. 

I believe it was around 92 FGA/g vs. 90 overall now. I think we were about 14-15th in pace and we're 21st now.

I don't think Haywards 64 TS% would last a whole season, but I also don't think Tatums 52 TS% would either.

[keevsnick]

The bad news is when Hayward returns, Jaylen will get less shot attempts.

I was curious because people always say this as a negative effect to a key player coming back - that they will take shots and opportunities away from the other guys. So I checked. Here are the FGAs of our top 6 wing/ball handler players in FGA. I averaged their FGA pre- and post-Hayward injury.



Note these averages are based on games played in.

Hayward was averaging 13.8 FGA in 8 games before his injury, well below Tatum and Kemba and around the same as Jaylen. Jaylen goes from 13.4 FGA to 15.8 FGA in Hayward's absence, and the pre-Hayward numbers are probably skewed by the fact that he stumbled a bit coming into the season and only played 5 games with Gordon. Tatum's FGA hasn't changed, he's averaged 18 all the way through. Kemba's has actually dropped from 18.3 to 16.5 (skewed by his Denver game where he got injured). I suspect if you look at minutes played (which I could, I was a bit lazy to put it in a spreadsheet but I can if people are interested) their numbers won't be all that different pre- and post-Hayward injury.

The increase is more marked in the players who have benefited the most from Gordon's absence - Smart, Wanamaker and Semi, and guys like Edwards and GWill to a lesser extent. Smart goes from 9.5 to 11.3, Wanamaker from 2.9 to 6.3, and Semi from 1 to 3.3. I'm sure if I looked at some of the other guys who benefited from those minutes, you'll see their FGA up as well.

Our top 4 shooters are (in rough FGA order) Tatum, Kemba, Brown and Hayward. They're going to get their shots up. I don't see any reason that would change because Gordon's coming back. I don't think any of those guys will be thinking "oh noes! my FGA is going to go down because G is coming back to take some of them". I think they'll be thinking "with G back I'm going to get better looks because a) he's unselfish and has a pass-first mentality and b) he knows how to drive and find the open man".

It's going to be the supporting guys, Wanamaker, Smart, Semi, among others, who will probably find some minutes squeezed and consequently will probably see a drop in their shots. It's unfortunate but it's the way it is.

PS Gratz on your 2000 

Yeah its hard to draw really any conclusion regarding Browns FG attempts with/without hayward, the sample is too small. That first game he was in foul trouble literally the entirely game and then the other low FG game was his first back after the sickness. The other three hayward games were fairly high volume.

I tend to agree, its gonna be more bench guys who lose chances like and give how those guys have struggled offensively that will help this this team a lot.

I agree it's a small sample size.

But ozgod's data showed Brown went from 13.4 FGA, before Hayward got hurt, to 15.8 FGA after Hayward got hurt.

Reason why I think Jaylen will get lesser shot attempts is Jaylen will also get lesser minutes once Hayward returns.

It will be Jaylen and Smart who will be greatly affected by Hayward's return.

Yes man the data does show that, if you remove literally all the context I just outlined. What I'm trying to say is the data is next to useless given that context. I really doubt Hayward will take many shots from Brown. If anything Tatum might lose a 1-2 just because I'd imagine Haywards minutes will more closely align with Tatum's (he'll be facilitating the second unit a lot).

[nickagneta]

To think that Jaylen and Jayson are having this type of success in putting up these numbers in just their age 23 and 22 years, respectively, while also having tremendous team success and having grown up in the NBA in a winning and contending team atmosphere.

You see players that were drafted around the Jay's, like Ingram, Hield, Ball, Fultz, Fox, Bender, etc. and none of these guys have been part of a winning team atmosphere. Only Simmons and Murray, high picks from the Jay's draft classes, have played on good teams. And I think the Jay's are better than both those guys.

So glad, in many ways, that things went down the way they did and we kept the Jay's to build the future.

I think it would be off the charts good if that Memphis pick turns into another #3 pick in 2021 that Danny turns into a superstar to grow with the Jay's, Smart, Romeo, Timelord, Semi and all the other home grown talent the team has and the free agent talent too.