Author Topic: Superman's ceiling?  (Read 5617 times)

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Superman's ceiling?
« on: December 01, 2008, 08:23:34 PM »

Offline Hoyo de Monterrey

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I am an unabashed fan of Dwight Howard. However, I can certainly agree his offensive game is a little one-dimensional. If he could develop any kind of face up to the basket game (think what Al Jefferson was working on when we dealt him), then he could be an unbelievable force, almost an aerial Shaq in terms of ability to impact and change a game. He's already a tremendous defensive player, but the offense needs work. The fact that he's working with Clifford Ray in the offseason is scary. However, as of right now, if he's not stronger then the guy who's defending him, he's inhibited severely on offense. Where do you see him now, and where is his ceiling?
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Re: Superman's ceiling?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2008, 10:07:51 PM »

Offline Toine43

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He sure has quite an impact on the games he plays in. Tonight was the first time all year Perk was beaten. And boy, was he thoroughly dominated. He looked like a much younger Perk on offense, and in addition to scoring on him easily, Howard beat him to most of the rebounds.

Sorry that I'm not responding directly to your post, but I wanted to make this point somewhere and here seems like as good of a place as any to make it.


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Re: Superman's ceiling?
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2008, 10:08:30 PM »

Offline FanInTheSouth

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I think that right now he's probably in the 4-5 range as far as big men in the game today If i had to pick a big to start a team with, KG, Duncan, and Bosh would probably be higher on my list, and maybe Amare or Brand.  I would have to decide if I thought it would be easier to teach Amare how to play defense, teach Howard how to play offense, or just be safe with the all-around solid Brand. 

My fear for Howard would be that if he can't learn how to play offense effectively, he will be too much of a liability when he loses some of his athleticism in a few years. 

I am also remembering Shaq as being quite the nimble big when he first came into the league (or is my memory failing me?), so would it be fair to call him an aerial Shaq, or just the second coming of Shaq?

Re: Superman's ceiling?
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2008, 10:11:10 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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I think that right now he's probably in the 4-5 range as far as big men in the game today If i had to pick a big to start a team with, KG, Duncan, and Bosh would probably be higher on my list, and maybe Amare or Brand.  I would have to decide if I thought it would be easier to teach Amare how to play defense, teach Howard how to play offense, or just be safe with the all-around solid Brand. 

My fear for Howard would be that if he can't learn how to play offense effectively, he will be too much of a liability when he loses some of his athleticism in a few years. 

I am also remembering Shaq as being quite the nimble big when he first came into the league (or is my memory failing me?), so would it be fair to call him an aerial Shaq, or just the second coming of Shaq?


Nowhere near as dominant as Shaq save on thing, he blocks Shots better than Shaq ever did. But he can't pass or score as well as Shaq did.

Re: Superman's ceiling?
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2008, 10:13:13 PM »

Offline Cman

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My fear for Howard would be that if he can't learn how to play offense effectively, he will be too much of a liability when he loses some of his athleticism in a few years. 

TP for the interesting point of view, but he is only 23 and I imagine has a solid 6-7 more years before the decline... plus he hasn't missed a game yet in his professional career.
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Re: Superman's ceiling?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2008, 10:36:11 PM »

Offline Cman

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He sure has quite an impact on the games he plays in. Tonight was the first time all year Perk was beaten. And boy, was he thoroughly dominated. He looked like a much younger Perk on offense, and in addition to scoring on him easily, Howard beat him to most of the rebounds.

First off , I wasn't able to watch the game, so I can only comment by looking at the stats.  But, Howard is the league leader in rebounds, so no surprise that he outrebounded Perk.  That said, Perk pulled down more rebounds tonight than he has in any other game this year...
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Re: Superman's ceiling?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2008, 10:45:46 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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He sure has quite an impact on the games he plays in. Tonight was the first time all year Perk was beaten. And boy, was he thoroughly dominated. He looked like a much younger Perk on offense, and in addition to scoring on him easily, Howard beat him to most of the rebounds.

First off , I wasn't able to watch the game, so I can only comment by looking at the stats.  But, Howard is the league leader in rebounds, so no surprise that he outrebounded Perk.  That said, Perk pulled down more rebounds tonight than he has in any other game this year...

Hmm, Howard got 2 more rebounds than Perk playing 40 minutes while Perk played 28. Yep, he was thoroughly dominated. Dwight just 5 of 12 (and I bet most of his misses where with Perk on him), while Perk went 4 of 7.

I'm missing where Howard completely dominated Perk portion.

Re: Superman's ceiling?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2008, 11:11:52 PM »

Offline Toine43

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Okay, I was wrong about the boards. But I stand by my statement about Perk's offense. The buckets he scored were all uncontested layups or dunks. All year long Perk has consistently set up camp in the low post and scored easily. Tonight, he was unable to convert against Howard. The 4 of 7 also doesn't account for the couple of times he turned the ball over trying to post up. He was probably 0 for 5 on post up attempts.

Guess I fixated too much on Perk's offensive moves, and made incorrect assumptions about the rest of the game. Kind of an embarassing mistake, but do me a favor and trust me on my point about Perk's offense.  :-[


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Re: Superman's ceiling?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2008, 11:51:57 PM »

Offline ACF

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Superman's ceiling is as far as
Perk's stretched arms and hands
reach to  ;)

Re: Superman's ceiling?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2008, 07:58:58 PM »

Offline Mideon

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21-14-4 at the age of 22...wow! If he didn't improve at all he'd already be one of the best big men in the past decade. The fact that he'll definitely improve in certain respects is just scary. His #'s are similar to Shaq's at the same age...I'd say he's worse offensively but a better rebounder and defender than Shaq was.

As far as career ceiling goes, I'll say 26-14-4.5 with improved passing and offensive repertoire. There are a few big men I'd still take over him for this season only, but as far as the future goes the only one I'd consider would be Bosh (and maybe Oden if he remains healthy and is as good as we think he can be). I'd actually give the edge to Howard since he's able to affect the game on defense so well. What a beast.

Re: Superman's ceiling?
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2008, 09:09:17 PM »

Offline fatherscott

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I really don't like Howard. He doesn't really have much in the way of skills.

The Shaq comparisons are totally inappropriate. Shaq is (was) an athletic freak...but knows basketball really well. He set up his teammates, knew where everyone was, and was in control.

The most overrated aspect of Howard is his defense. He blocks his fair share of shots, but I don't think he's a great defender. Amare gets blocks too, and we all know he's a lousy defender.

Howard's ceiling is mental -- will he invest himself into the game, and not just the weight room? His physique is ridiculous and gets better every year. But I haven't seen him develop a bit offensively since he became a pro, and still believe him to be an overrated defender.
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Re: Superman's ceiling?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2008, 09:17:42 PM »

Offline ILoveWalta

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For Howard to get to the next level of elite PFs in the league he's got to get a jump shot.  KG's got a jump shot, Duncan has a jump shot...Howard's not yet in the same sentence with KG and Duncan, to me.


Re: Superman's ceiling?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2008, 09:27:06 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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For Howard to get to the next level of elite PFs in the league he's got to get a jump shot.  KG's got a jump shot, Duncan has a jump shot...Howard's not yet in the same sentence with KG and Duncan, to me.


Howard is a center any way you look at it. I know the difference between 4s and 5s often isn't clear. But Howard is a traditional 5.

Re: Superman's ceiling?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2008, 09:36:30 PM »

Offline ILoveWalta

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For Howard to get to the next level of elite PFs in the league he's got to get a jump shot.  KG's got a jump shot, Duncan has a jump shot...Howard's not yet in the same sentence with KG and Duncan, to me.


Howard is a center any way you look at it. I know the difference between 4s and 5s often isn't clear. But Howard is a traditional 5.

I'll amend my previous post from PF to big men in the NBA (Duncan's no 4 either).  Regardless he needs to expand his offensive game to become among the games elite big men. 

 

Re: Superman's ceiling?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2008, 10:59:53 PM »

Offline ThreadCrasher

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I love this topic.  I have always been a Howard fan.  He is such a beast on the interior.

As much as he is an athletic freak like Shaq is, he is not the same player.

I would compare him more to a Olajuwon or Robinson.  More of a athletic, rebounder, shot blocker early in his career...offense will (may) develop later on.  It may not, and if not he is still a stud.  If it does develop...ie a face up jumper and/or a signiture back to the basket move he is a HOF/generational big man.

JMHO.