Feelings about the trade

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

My concern is the trade being consummated now rather than on draft night.

[Rosco917]

My concern is the trade being consummated now rather than on draft night.

TP exactly what I was thinking. Why not wait and see what the rest of the week would have brought.
I'm kind of in shock. 

[Somebody]

My concern is about that 1 protection, we should push to get rid of it no matter what.

[Scintan]

At the moment I'm at option 1. That could change over the course of the week.

I feel Danny made a huge mistake in trading Fultz to Philly and taking too much of a gamble that the pick will turn out in his favor.

After watching the Warriors play, it's obvious you need shooters to win an NBA Championship. Fultz seemed to have all the tools. 

Sure hope I'm wrong.....

The right feeling is neutral.  We won't know how to feel about this trade until at least the end of next year.

Nonsense. We can tell right now that this is a ridiculously bad return. We might get lucky (again), and the pick turns out great, but that doesn't change the value involved, right now.

Getting lucky doesn't turn a bad move into a good one.

Yes it does, happens all the time.  Not saying it's right but it happens.  The 'nonsense' is thinking you can judge this deal as bad right now.  If you don't want to wait until the end of next year, please at least wait until Thursday night.

It's easy to judge the deal right now, because the deal is out there (It's the #1 overall this year for the #3 this year and either a protected pick next year or a pick the year after), and Ainge, according to a whole lot of people, didn't get enough in return.  That's about as straightforward as it gets.  You simply decide for yourself whether you think #1 <=> #3 + delayed pick which can't be #1 next year, but could be #1 the following year.

Now, if you are trying to say that there's more involved in the actual deal (i.e. another pick added to the pot by Philly), that would be a horse of another color.

[JOMVP]

Unfortunately, we need to know the other shoe that ends up dropping here. I dont think Danny is done, however, lets say he is - then this is an awful trade. The Lakers very well could end up with the number 1 pick next year giving the Sixers a shot at getting another perennial all nba type player. Who knows what happens with the Kings in 2019.

The other part of this is the fact he didnt fight to include Saric into this deal. He would have slid perfectly into that 4 spot next to Horford, replacing everything Olynyk did for you plus more.

The fact that Ainge was so adament about not taking back more salary means something else is brewing, but if nothing does, this was a failure.

[Sophomore]

In a world of hot takes, it's frustrating not to know how this will turn out. I want to trust Danny, but he is the guy who drafted Marcus and wanted to send six(!) picks out for Winslow. We know how those players are developing.

If Jackson and Tatum don't overcome their limits and the evaluators are right that Fultz lacks any real holes in his game - that he's the next Wade, or maybe a healthy version of Brandon Roy - that's going to sting. And at least at this point, it looks to be the most likely option.

And if we draft either Jackson or Tatum, we still look to be drafting into a logjam - how many SFs can we have on roster? Aren't we chasing Hayward? The only sure thing is that once the draft is over we're still going to be trying to flip assets.


 

[Tr1boy]

In a world of hot takes, it's frustrating not to know how this will turn out. I want to trust Danny, but he is the guy who drafted Marcus and wanted to send six(!) picks out for Winslow. We know how those players are developing.

If Jackson and Tatum don't overcome their limits and the evaluators are right that Fultz lacks any real holes in his game - that he's the next Wade, or maybe a healthy version of Brandon Roy - that's going to sting.

And at least at this point, it looks to be the most likely option.

Marcus Smart is an all nba defensive team type talent

What has randle done so far? Or anybody else drafted below Smart

Those 6 picks you are talking about was for ultimately rozier, Yabu, Zizic and a few 2nd rounders for winslow

Not the worst gamble....glad it didnt happen. But it wouldnt have broken the bank

[CELTICSofBOSTON]

The trade was awful.  We got screwed.

Markelle Fultz is the best prospect in this draft BY FAR.  Best guard prospect I can remember.  Better than Simmons last year too.

He is going to be a multiple time all-star.  I mean the kid has it ALL.

Everyone saying a trade is coming is more wishful thinking than anything.  We would probably have heard something by now.  It is quite clear to me that Danny made the trade and has no idea who he even wants to take at number 3. He still hasn't worked out 2 top guys.

What that tells me flat out is that Danny does not like Fultz as a prospect for whatever reason.  I think that concerns me more than anything.  Literally everybody else had Markelle at number one and Danny is not a fan.

What the heck, man.  I am a huge Danny Ainge supporter, and I even suport his underrated draft record but man this is an awful deal.

Josh Jackson is going to be a role player.  Lonzo Ball is not going to be a Celtic.  That leaves Tatum who has some nice tools but not even in the same stratosphere as Fultz as a prospect.

Oh, and we might not even get to make the other pick for another 745 days!!!

My goodness, Danny.  What the heck were you thinking.  Why don't you like Fultz?!!!!!

[Yoki_IsTheName]

The trade was awful.  We got screwed.

Markelle Fultz is the best prospect in this draft BY FAR.  Best guard prospect I can remember.  Better than Simmons last year too.

He is going to be a multiple time all-star.  I mean the kid has it ALL.

Everyone saying a trade is coming is more wishful thinking than anything.  We would probably have heard something by now.  It is quite clear to me that Danny made the trade and has no idea who he even wants to take at number 3. He still hasn't worked out 2 top guys.

What that tells me flat out is that Danny does not like Fultz as a prospect for whatever reason.  I think that concerns me more than anything.  Literally everybody else had Markelle at number one and Danny is not a fan.

What the heck, man.  I am a huge Danny Ainge supporter, and I even suport his underrated draft record but man this is an awful deal.

Josh Jackson is going to be a role player.  Lonzo Ball is not going to be a Celtic.  That leaves Tatum who has some nice tools but not even in the same stratosphere as Fultz as a prospect.

Oh, and we might not even get to make the other pick for another 745 days!!!

My goodness, Danny.  What the heck were you thinking.  Why don't you like Fultz?!!!!!

Because, Terry Rozier.

[Silent Storm]

Today's society is accustomed to and expectant of instant gratification, which in this case comes in the form of all the hype surrounding Fultz and the number one pick. Those who are having a "grab the pitchforks" reaction are not seeing the whole picture.

We should trust in Ainge's decision making, look at where the team is today as a result of his work. Furthermore, we should also trust Stevens' ability to evaluate talent. I'm pretty sure Fultz bombed his workout with us and it wasn't widely publicized to avoid his draft stock being affected. Fultz looked terrible during his workout for Philly, and there's video evidence here: https://m.facebook.com/94wip

I was sold on Fultz being a generational talent, but the evaluation and deal we made tells me that there's significant red flags with him. My guess is that the red flags are related to his lack of defensive effort and his lack of killer instinct - it's widely known that he will get his but doesn't seem to care as much about winning. Pair that with our current roster which is guard-laden and the fact that we probably couldn't find decent trade value to open up some of the guard spots, and here we are today.

Going forward, we're in great shape. We will either trade the #3 pick this year along with the other pick we got from Philly for an established star, or keep the picks and have an abundance of elite incoming talent over the next few years. We should NOT trade the '18 Brooklyn pick for Butler or George, it's going to be worth a lot with the prospects that will be available in next year's draft.

It's easy to get caught up in the hype of what is supposedly a sure thing, but Ainge and Stevens are privy to more information than any of us and they clearly saw something in Fultz that prompted this deal. Let's reserve judgment until we see how it all plays out.

[Casperian]

I voted neutral, though I'm leaning towards being on board.

I think if Boston wasn't 100% on Fultz at number one then this is a really smart move to trade back, take someone you do like more, save money (important in free agency), and pick up an extra asset.

I'm just surprised at reports that it is only two picks.  I feel like we could have received more, but we obviously don't know the details.

I guess we'll wait and see...

Remember, someone like Cousins was basically worth less than what we just got back. These high picks are really really valuable.

For example a lot of people were talking about BKN 18 as something that could be the centerpiece of a trade for someone like Butler or George. The pick we got back isn't much less valuable than that one.

So let me ask again: Why make this trade now, 5 days before the draft? Why not wait and see if Philly increases their offer? What's the rush?

So we can make another deal involving #3 for a star. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Yeah, so the question is "which one"?

Let's assume for argument's sake it's Jimmy Butler, a guy we've been linked to for quite some time, he's available, the Bulls had reportedly interest in the #3. Seems like a pretty good guess. And let's assume the "best-case scenario", in which we also sign Gordon Hayward in FA.

Does anyone honestly believe that team is beating the Warriors in a seven game series?

As I said in another thread, Butler is not better than Kevin Durant, he's not better than Curry, he's not better than Klay, and I'm not even sure he's better than Draymond Green.

So all that for building a team whose best player is the 4th-5th best player in a series against the Warriors? Doesn't make a lick of sense, especially if you factor in the cap ramifications.

Danny said he's not punting this off-season. Well, going all in with Butler and Hayward is exactly that, punting. It's trading a shot at greatness for the surefire 3rd best team in the NBA (on a massive payroll).

We are turning into the Clippers East. Let's hope we can beat the Cavs with that team...

[keevsnick]

I mean a lot of this comes down to how close you think Markelle Fultz and the next 3 prospects are. if you believe that Fultz is a clear step ahead then its hard to figure out how this makes sense. If however you think Jackson/Tatum could be at least 90% of what Fultz will be or even better than it makes sense to get the guy you want and pick up a future asset.

I would have taken Fultz, but the guys does have some flaw. He shot only 65% from the line, traditionally that's a better indicator of shooting ability than one college season of 3pt%. He has defensive red flags as well. Maybe Ainge isn't sold he's a great shooter, which would limit his potential. Jayson tatum by comparison shot lower form 3, at 34% but was an 85% free throw shooter.

As for the trade, I think its fair value. We are either gonna get 2-5 in a draft next year that's probably 4-5 prospects deep with really interesting talent or an unprotected in 19' from a kings team that everyone thinks is gonna be bad. So picking up what will probably be a top five pick isn't bad.

Its also worth noting that this could help facilitate a trade. Most people agree that the #1 pick is too much for George/Butler, but #3 is probably a solid foundation for such a trade. Its unlikely that any future pick will have more value than the #3 pick in this years draft. So you trade that as the foundation of a Butler/George trade while holding onto the BRK18' LA18' picks allowing you to get better now while maintaining future upside. You get to have your cake and eat it too.

There's also some implications for free agency. This opens up a couple million dollars if we keep the 3rd pick, which helps us get closer to max space. However does it really makes sense to say draft Tatum and sign Heyward. Add Brown and Crowder and there's just not enough playing time. Does that mean we are going after Griffin? Or is there another shoe to drop. 

Lastly, maybe this sets  us up for a future Davis trade. He's not going anywhere in the next year. But what if the Pelicans implode next year and we are sitting here next draft with picks 2,4 and a cast of young guys? The Pelicans would have to at least consider it right? 

[Boris Badenov]

I voted neutral, though I'm leaning towards being on board.

I think if Boston wasn't 100% on Fultz at number one then this is a really smart move to trade back, take someone you do like more, save money (important in free agency), and pick up an extra asset.

I'm just surprised at reports that it is only two picks.  I feel like we could have received more, but we obviously don't know the details.

I guess we'll wait and see...

Remember, someone like Cousins was basically worth less than what we just got back. These high picks are really really valuable.

For example a lot of people were talking about BKN 18 as something that could be the centerpiece of a trade for someone like Butler or George. The pick we got back isn't much less valuable than that one.

So let me ask again: Why make this trade now, 5 days before the draft? Why not wait and see if Philly increases their offer? What's the rush?

So we can make another deal involving #3 for a star. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

Yeah, so the question is "which one"?

Let's assume for argument's sake it's Jimmy Butler, a guy we've been linked to for quite some time, he's available, the Bulls had reportedly interest in the #3. Seems like a pretty good guess. And let's assume the "best-case scenario", in which we also sign Gordon Hayward in FA.

Does anyone honestly believe that team is beating the Warriors in a seven game series?

As I said in another thread, Butler is not better than Kevin Durant, he's not better than Curry, he's not better than Klay, and I'm not sure he's even better than Draymond Green.

So all that for building a team whose best player is the 4th-5th best player in a series against the Warriors? Doesn't make a lick of sense, especially if you factor in the cap ramifications.

Danny said he's not punting this off-season. Well, going all in with Butler and Hayward is exactly that, punting. It's trading a shot at greatness for the surefire 3rd best team in the NBA (on a massive payroll).

We are turning into the Clippers East. Let's hope we can beat the Cavs with that team...

I hear you and I'm not the biggest Butler fan.

On the other hand, if you're a GM you can't just say "We will build a team to win in 2022 because Warriors." Players get hurt, or have changes of heart....there are more alleged "dynasties" that have flamed out in 3 years than ones who've won five championships in a row.

I don't know. Now I'm trying to talk myself into Jayson Tatum who at one point I liked almost as much as Fultz. It's a weird ride.

On the other hand I was complaining up and down last week about how boring this draft was for Celtics fans. I just didn't want it to be exciting like THIS.

[CoachBo]

I'm shocked, shocked I say, to find all this criticism of the draft savant Danny Ainge on this board.

Time, as they say, is always the great vindicator.

[bellerephon]

It's a perfectly reasonable, although risky, trade. While most project Fultz as the best prospect in this draft there are reports that numerous NBA execs think that Jackson is the guy. IF DA really thinks that Jackson has a better chance to be a great player then this is the right move. He gets the guy he wants and picks up an extra pick. Fultz is not a sure fire star like Lebron, Duncan or Shaq. It's not crazy to think that Jackson might be the better prospect and DA is not the only one that thinks so. Moreover, if Fultz develops into an all star player, a better one than Jackson, but not an elite player then the damage isn't all that great. As we've seen, all stars aren't enough, to win it all you need elite talent.

This could also be a precursor to another trade. If Danny is trying to gather enough picks to go after Butler or George or (miracle of miracles) Davis, then it doesn't really matter which is better, he's going all in on winning now. That may or may not work out, but it's not crazy.