Have We Lost Our "Ticket"?

[Bahku]

For the last few games I've been watching KG closely, as most of you have, and what I'm seeing is a bit hard to take. KG doesn't look like he's struggling physically to me ... I don't think he's got any injuries or problems that way that he's hiding. His elevation isn't bad, he's running well, getting up and down the floor easily, and into his stroke as usual.

But still, something's not quite right. I don't mean just his lack of offensive contributions, but more his attitude, and with KG, that's a very serious thing. I believe whatever's going on is in his head, and that he'll snap himself out of it very soon, and we'll forget this "down" time. But there's a small part of me that worries it could last, and be his ultimate undoing.

I won't let myself believe those negative things, especially with people like Garnett, mainly because of the amount of intensity that drives the man, his incredible motivation, and his champion's heart. But the longer it goes unchecked, the worse it will get, I believe, so let's hope he gets out of this funk in Game Three. I think the team knows this and is working hard to get him going ... the Garden fans will be key to that as well.

How does KG look to you? What do you think is really going on?

[PosImpos]

He definitely seems to be lacking confidence in himself, especially on offense.  He just seems out of sync with the game compared to how he's been in the past when he's playing really well.

[LB3533]

I really think the refs took KG out of the game for Game 2.

But KG wasn't even hitting the open jumper. That shows to me he is either mentally fatigued or he is injured.

He had an alley oop dunk in transition from Game 1 so I don't think he is severely injured.

Most likely it is a mental thing. I bet he is mentally drained before the game.

KG needs to relax his mind and reduce the mental activity.

He just needs to start feeling more. Feel the game and it will come back to him.

Edit: I also did notice that during warm up KG was shooting jumpers but was in a full blown sweat. I probably think he should chill out there and relax more. Save it for the Game itself.

[Dybdal]

Great questions raised Bahku on a topic i think everyone is wondering about.

Your conclusion seems the most logical one based of what we know from the media but its just speculation, in all fairness it could be anything.. hell a bunch of eskimo terorists could be holding his family hostage for all i know.

Bottom line for me at this time of year is that speculations are not going to do my stress levels any good, i just pray for a good series with a healthy kevin garnett in both body and mind and keep trying to do whatever i believe will bring Kevin good fortune.

Hell there's an idea.. everyone do whatever you do when you feel lucky.. find your old bird shirt, the rabbits foot what ever you have.. and send the ticket some good vibes.. beats the hell out of wondering if theres anything wrong with him anyway

[Frezz]

I'd like to see him be able to stay on the court and get in a rhythm before I write him off. He's getting whistled for some really cheap crap early in games and it's affecting him. Also let's not forget he played pretty well the last few minutes of game 2.

[GreenFaith1819]

I'll go more with LB3533's first line - except I'll go even further:

The Referees targeted Kevin Garnett for Both Games 1 and 2. Pau Gasol is being made out to be the Next Big thing besides Kobe.....he's getting more press time, the whole nine.

While Gasol is truly a Talented Big man, maybe one of the Top 5, The Refs are giving him too much leeway, I think. No one can touch the man, at least from what I see. No one can even body him up.

We haven't lost our ticket, Bahku - I've looked at both games closely as well, and I believe once we get back to Boston he'll be fine.

Like you posted in another thread Bahku:

"Refs - Let Em' Play!!"

[Bahku]

I'll go more with LB3533's first line - except I'll go even further:

The Referees targeted Kevin Garnett for Both Games 1 and 2. Pau Gasol is being made out to be the Next Big thing besides Kobe.....he's getting more press time, the whole nine.

While Gasol is truly a Talented Big man, maybe one of the Top 5, The Refs are giving him too much leeway, I think. No one can touch the man, at least from what I see. No one can even body him up.

We haven't lost our ticket, Bahku - I've looked at both games closely as well, and I believe once we get back to Boston he'll be fine.

Like you posted in another thread Bahku:

"Refs - Let Em' Play!!"

Yeah ... the disparity of singling out certain players really makes you wonder. They have definitely removed KG from being able to be effective, and thus it shines a brighter light on Pau ... Gasol is the future, and to them, KG is almost "over-the-hill". I'm not saying this is actually what's going on, but there's certainly enough to make you seriously consider it.

[FallGuy]

I'll go more with LB3533's first line - except I'll go even further:

The Referees targeted Kevin Garnett for Both Games 1 and 2. Pau Gasol is being made out to be the Next Big thing besides Kobe.....he's getting more press time, the whole nine.

While Gasol is truly a Talented Big man, maybe one of the Top 5, The Refs are giving him too much leeway, I think. No one can touch the man, at least from what I see. No one can even body him up.

We haven't lost our ticket, Bahku - I've looked at both games closely as well, and I believe once we get back to Boston he'll be fine.

Like you posted in another thread Bahku:

"Refs - Let Em' Play!!"

Yeah ... the disparity of singling out certain players really makes you wonder. They have definitely removed KG from being able to be effective, and thus it shines a brighter light on Pau ... Gasol is the future, and to them, KG is almost "over-the-hill". I'm not saying this is actually what's going on, but there's certainly enough to make you seriously consider it.

@Bahku/GreenFaith -

Here's where we part company. While I agree the refs have been around a D+ for the series, it's absurd to me to suggest KG was targeted. Is that really what the evidence suggests? Admittedly, I haven't done the legwork on all the calls, but is aggressive offensive post play being rewarded with foul calls? Is Pau really just that much better than KG and making him look bad or foul more frequently (in this series, regardless of fouls, I think this is a legit possibility)? Were KG's game one struggles more a function of him trying to cover for the porous Celtics perimeter D than any "targeting" from the league?

All of those things make more sense to me, especially in aggregate.

But even if I go with the conspiracy idea, it leaves unanswered questions. Did the refs decide to target Ray in game one, Kobe in game two and Odom in both? Because what else is to account for all the fouls called on them?

Ultimately, the ref problems seem systemic to me, and *generally* in favor of the stars, but beyond those conclusions, I think it's a reach. That noted - I really wish they'd just let them play.

[Bahku]

I'll go more with LB3533's first line - except I'll go even further:

The Referees targeted Kevin Garnett for Both Games 1 and 2. Pau Gasol is being made out to be the Next Big thing besides Kobe.....he's getting more press time, the whole nine.

While Gasol is truly a Talented Big man, maybe one of the Top 5, The Refs are giving him too much leeway, I think. No one can touch the man, at least from what I see. No one can even body him up.

We haven't lost our ticket, Bahku - I've looked at both games closely as well, and I believe once we get back to Boston he'll be fine.

Like you posted in another thread Bahku:

"Refs - Let Em' Play!!"

Yeah ... the disparity of singling out certain players really makes you wonder. They have definitely removed KG from being able to be effective, and thus it shines a brighter light on Pau ... Gasol is the future, and to them, KG is almost "over-the-hill". I'm not saying this is actually what's going on, but there's certainly enough to make you seriously consider it.

@Bahku/GreenFaith -

Here's where we part company. While I agree the refs have been around a D+ for the series, it's absurd to me to suggest KG was targeted. Is that really what the evidence suggests? Admittedly, I haven't done the legwork on all the calls, but is aggressive offensive post play being rewarded with foul calls? Is Pau really just that much better than KG and making him look bad or foul more frequently (in this series, regardless of fouls, I think this is a legit possibility)? Were KG's game one struggles more a function of him trying to cover for the porous Celtics perimeter D than any "targeting" from the league?

All of those things make more sense to me, especially in aggregate.

But even if I go with the conspiracy idea, it leaves unanswered questions. Did the refs decide to target Ray in game one, Kobe in game two and Odom in both? Because what else is to account for all the fouls called on them?

Ultimately, the ref problems seem systemic to me, and *generally* in favor of the stars, but beyond those conclusions, I think it's a reach. That noted - I really wish they'd just let them play.

Oh, you make very good points here, and I agree with you for the most part (TP) ... I didn't say I was sold on the "conspiracy" thing, (because I'm not at this point), just that in cases like this, it's very compelling, (and even if it is such, I don't think it's any kind of spoken "policy", but more of a general understanding or assumption, and one that's not talked about openly, (for obvious reasons). I doubt we'll ever know one way or the other, unfortunately.  

[GreenFaith1819]

I'll go more with LB3533's first line - except I'll go even further:

The Referees targeted Kevin Garnett for Both Games 1 and 2. Pau Gasol is being made out to be the Next Big thing besides Kobe.....he's getting more press time, the whole nine.

While Gasol is truly a Talented Big man, maybe one of the Top 5, The Refs are giving him too much leeway, I think. No one can touch the man, at least from what I see. No one can even body him up.

We haven't lost our ticket, Bahku - I've looked at both games closely as well, and I believe once we get back to Boston he'll be fine.

Like you posted in another thread Bahku:

"Refs - Let Em' Play!!"

Yeah ... the disparity of singling out certain players really makes you wonder. They have definitely removed KG from being able to be effective, and thus it shines a brighter light on Pau ... Gasol is the future, and to them, KG is almost "over-the-hill". I'm not saying this is actually what's going on, but there's certainly enough to make you seriously consider it.

@Bahku/GreenFaith -

Here's where we part company. While I agree the refs have been around a D+ for the series, it's absurd to me to suggest KG was targeted. Is that really what the evidence suggests? Admittedly, I haven't done the legwork on all the calls, but is aggressive offensive post play being rewarded with foul calls? Is Pau really just that much better than KG and making him look bad or foul more frequently (in this series, regardless of fouls, I think this is a legit possibility)? Were KG's game one struggles more a function of him trying to cover for the porous Celtics perimeter D than any "targeting" from the league?

All of those things make more sense to me, especially in aggregate.

But even if I go with the conspiracy idea, it leaves unanswered questions. Did the refs decide to target Ray in game one, Kobe in game two and Odom in both? Because what else is to account for all the fouls called on them?

Ultimately, the ref problems seem systemic to me, and *generally* in favor of the stars, but beyond those conclusions, I think it's a reach. That noted - I really wish they'd just let them play.

Good Point Fallguy, but to me, I don't remember KG getting in foul trouble VS Beasley/Haslem, Jamison/Hickson/Sideshow, or Rashard Lewis - at all.

Now Gasol is a slightly more talented animal than those that I mentioned - but is he THAT much better?

I mean - KG wasn't in Foul Trouble VS Tim Duncan of all folks - in two games this year. And I give Timmy one of my Top 5 PF spots.

Honestly - when I looked at the game, both me and my 12 yr old was like "Huh?" on at least two calls on KG..I mean ticky-tack..to me.

There is No Doubt in my mind that Both Paul Pierce and Ron Artest are beating themselves up during the last two games - but the refs are letting those two play - elbow/shoulder pads and all.

So why not Gasol and KG?

[FallGuy]

I'll go more with LB3533's first line - except I'll go even further:

The Referees targeted Kevin Garnett for Both Games 1 and 2. Pau Gasol is being made out to be the Next Big thing besides Kobe.....he's getting more press time, the whole nine.

While Gasol is truly a Talented Big man, maybe one of the Top 5, The Refs are giving him too much leeway, I think. No one can touch the man, at least from what I see. No one can even body him up.

We haven't lost our ticket, Bahku - I've looked at both games closely as well, and I believe once we get back to Boston he'll be fine.

Like you posted in another thread Bahku:

"Refs - Let Em' Play!!"

Yeah ... the disparity of singling out certain players really makes you wonder. They have definitely removed KG from being able to be effective, and thus it shines a brighter light on Pau ... Gasol is the future, and to them, KG is almost "over-the-hill". I'm not saying this is actually what's going on, but there's certainly enough to make you seriously consider it.

@Bahku/GreenFaith -

Here's where we part company. While I agree the refs have been around a D+ for the series, it's absurd to me to suggest KG was targeted. Is that really what the evidence suggests? Admittedly, I haven't done the legwork on all the calls, but is aggressive offensive post play being rewarded with foul calls? Is Pau really just that much better than KG and making him look bad or foul more frequently (in this series, regardless of fouls, I think this is a legit possibility)? Were KG's game one struggles more a function of him trying to cover for the porous Celtics perimeter D than any "targeting" from the league?

All of those things make more sense to me, especially in aggregate.

But even if I go with the conspiracy idea, it leaves unanswered questions. Did the refs decide to target Ray in game one, Kobe in game two and Odom in both? Because what else is to account for all the fouls called on them?

Ultimately, the ref problems seem systemic to me, and *generally* in favor of the stars, but beyond those conclusions, I think it's a reach. That noted - I really wish they'd just let them play.

Good Point Fallguy, but to me, I don't remember KG getting in foul trouble VS Beasley/Haslem, Jamison/Hickson/Sideshow, or Rashard Lewis - at all.

Now Gasol is a slightly more talented animal than those that I mentioned - but is he THAT much better?

I mean - KG wasn't in Foul Trouble VS Tim Duncan of all folks - in two games this year. And I give Timmy one of my Top 5 PF spots.

Honestly - when I looked at the game, both me and my 12 yr old was like "Huh?" on at least two calls on KG..I mean ticky-tack..to me.

There is No Doubt in my mind that Both Paul Pierce and Ron Artest are beating themselves up during the last two games - but the refs are letting those two play - elbow/shoulder pads and all.

So why not Gasol and KG?

Hmmm. Well, Artest fouled out of game two and a couple of the calls on him looked suspect, and Pierce, well, he's often daring Artest to shoot. I mean - he'll contest, but not that hard. The Celtics want him to bomb away.  So, he's less likely to pick up calls. Especially if he's out on the perimeter.

You may have a point that the big guys are getting reffed more tightly.

Still, to answer one of your questions, is Pau that much better than Rashard or Beasley or Jamison?

Yes.

He's way, way, WAY better than all of them.

Let me put it this way... if you're taking one PF for a title run in 2010, who do you take? Duncan is fading, Amare doesn't play much D, Boozer's hit or miss.... you could make a case for Bosh, I suppose. But Pau's gonna end up in the top 1-3 guys for sure. None of the MIA/CLE/ORL guys are even in the discussion.

[GreenFaith1819]

I'll go more with LB3533's first line - except I'll go even further:

The Referees targeted Kevin Garnett for Both Games 1 and 2. Pau Gasol is being made out to be the Next Big thing besides Kobe.....he's getting more press time, the whole nine.

While Gasol is truly a Talented Big man, maybe one of the Top 5, The Refs are giving him too much leeway, I think. No one can touch the man, at least from what I see. No one can even body him up.

We haven't lost our ticket, Bahku - I've looked at both games closely as well, and I believe once we get back to Boston he'll be fine.

Like you posted in another thread Bahku:

"Refs - Let Em' Play!!"

Yeah ... the disparity of singling out certain players really makes you wonder. They have definitely removed KG from being able to be effective, and thus it shines a brighter light on Pau ... Gasol is the future, and to them, KG is almost "over-the-hill". I'm not saying this is actually what's going on, but there's certainly enough to make you seriously consider it.

@Bahku/GreenFaith -

Here's where we part company. While I agree the refs have been around a D+ for the series, it's absurd to me to suggest KG was targeted. Is that really what the evidence suggests? Admittedly, I haven't done the legwork on all the calls, but is aggressive offensive post play being rewarded with foul calls? Is Pau really just that much better than KG and making him look bad or foul more frequently (in this series, regardless of fouls, I think this is a legit possibility)? Were KG's game one struggles more a function of him trying to cover for the porous Celtics perimeter D than any "targeting" from the league?

All of those things make more sense to me, especially in aggregate.

But even if I go with the conspiracy idea, it leaves unanswered questions. Did the refs decide to target Ray in game one, Kobe in game two and Odom in both? Because what else is to account for all the fouls called on them?

Ultimately, the ref problems seem systemic to me, and *generally* in favor of the stars, but beyond those conclusions, I think it's a reach. That noted - I really wish they'd just let them play.

Good Point Fallguy, but to me, I don't remember KG getting in foul trouble VS Beasley/Haslem, Jamison/Hickson/Sideshow, or Rashard Lewis - at all.

Now Gasol is a slightly more talented animal than those that I mentioned - but is he THAT much better?

I mean - KG wasn't in Foul Trouble VS Tim Duncan of all folks - in two games this year. And I give Timmy one of my Top 5 PF spots.

Honestly - when I looked at the game, both me and my 12 yr old was like "Huh?" on at least two calls on KG..I mean ticky-tack..to me.

There is No Doubt in my mind that Both Paul Pierce and Ron Artest are beating themselves up during the last two games - but the refs are letting those two play - elbow/shoulder pads and all.

So why not Gasol and KG?

Hmmm. Well, Artest fouled out of game two and a couple of the calls on him looked suspect, and Pierce, well, he's often daring Artest to shoot. I mean - he'll contest, but not that hard. The Celtics want him to bomb away.  So, he's less likely to pick up calls. Especially if he's out on the perimeter.

You may have a point that the big guys are getting reffed more tightly.

Still, to answer one of your questions, is Pau that much better than Rashard or Beasley or Jamison?

Yes.

He's way, way, WAY better than all of them.

Let me put it this way... if you're taking one PF for a title run in 2010, who do you take? Duncan is fading, Amare doesn't play much D, Boozer's hit or miss.... you could make a case for Bosh, I suppose. But Pau's gonna end up in the top 1-3 guys for sure. None of the MIA/CLE/ORL guys are even in the discussion.

And therein lies the Potential "Superstar" treatment.......now, watching Gasol, he may very well be in the top 3 PFs...good argument for him.

But still - why the obvious (to me, at least) touchy-touchy fouls for him?

For me - how can it go from one extreme to the other? For KG? Out of our Bigs, he is probably the one who is Least Physical..

..case in point: If Kevin Garnett remains in Foul Trouble in Boston for next three games, I wonder what will that mean? I am thinking that he probably won't.

[GreenFaith1819]

I know that Health is a Fleeting thing..but how can a Man go from Defensive player of the Year in 07-08 to near fouling out against Gasol? No matter what rank Gasol is.

KG has lost a step, but he hasn't lost This much...even with his loss of natural ability, he is a Smart player..he hasn't gone Dumb on Defense in two games.

[FallGuy]

I know that Health is a Fleeting thing..but how can a Man go from Defensive player of the Year in 07-08 to near fouling out against Gasol? No matter what rank Gasol is.

KG has lost a step, but he hasn't lost This much...even with his loss of natural ability, he is a Smart player..he hasn't gone Dumb on Defense in two games.

Unless there's a hidden injury (and who knows with that stuff - Pierce lied all year about how banged up he was), what's happening isn't that much of a shock.

KG is an older player, whose game was largely based on his athleticism. Because he's older, he'd be in decline anyway. Because there's an injury on top of that, that decline might come faster or with more peaks and valleys.

I think you, like a lot of fans (including me) and KG himself, are still hoping for the return of the player he was. I rewatched the 08 finals last week and one thing you notice is how often KG explodes off the dribble and takes Gasol to the bucket. Those moves are now gone from his arsenal. Same thing on D - he's lost things there.

It's not at all shocking that he might have a bad game or two or even a whole bad series, especially against an elite offensive PF like Gasol. Add in games where the Lakers blow by the C's perimeter D, and the task becomes nearly impossible for KG.

[Greenbean]

Bahku I think you are spot on. He is sprinting and jumping fine but his timing and confidence are way off. He isnt talking much out there.

The garden will cheer him up though!