Exactly how important was Rondo to the 08 Title team?

[Jon]

I feel like people are taking the Rondo debate too hard both ways.

But to be fair we should remember two things:

1) In ‘08, Doc’s lineup to end most games was House, Ray, PP, Posey, and KG. Rondo was helpful; but it’s telling that Doc preferrred House’s shooting (and not much else) at times.

2) That said, Rondo isn’t wrong about anything he said to IT. Since when do the Celtics celebrate making it to the Conference Finals. More importantly, if Rondo hasn’t gotten hurt last year, IT wouldn’t have sniffed the second round of the playoffs.

[Moranis]

Rondo was the 4th most important player on that team. He led the team in assists and steals and was the second best defensive player on the team. He was also the second best shot creator on the team. And he was only 21 through most off the season.

He was important. His game 6 versus the Lakers with all the spotlight on him at 22 years old:

21 points
8 assists
7 rebounds
6 steals
+24.

He didn't show it all the time but you could see he was going to be special, if only for a few years.

In that game, Rondo played 32 minutes and Boston was +24 while he was on the floor.  In the 16 minutes Rondo didn't play Boston was +15.  In other words, Boston was actually better when Rondo wasn't in the game.  The other 5 games in that series, Rondo was poor to downright awful (game 1 was the only other game he had a positive +- and game 5 he was -15 in just under 15 minutes). Statistically though Rondo had the 4th best overall stats, but I do think Perkins and Posey were clearly more important than Rondo in that series (maybe not though out the year, but definitely in the finals).

[nickagneta]

Rondo was the 4th most important player on that team. He led the team in assists and steals and was the second best defensive player on the team. He was also the second best shot creator on the team. And he was only 21 through most off the season.

He was important. His game 6 versus the Lakers with all the spotlight on him at 22 years old:

21 points
8 assists
7 rebounds
6 steals
+24.

He didn't show it all the time but you could see he was going to be special, if only for a few years.

In that game, Rondo played 32 minutes and Boston was +24 while he was on the floor.  In the 16 minutes Rondo didn't play Boston was +15.  In other words, Boston was actually better when Rondo wasn't in the game.  The other 5 games in that series, Rondo was poor to downright awful (game 1 was the only other game he had a positive +- and game 5 he was -15 in just under 15 minutes). Statistically though Rondo had the 4th best overall stats, but I do think Perkins and Posey were clearly more important than Rondo in that series (maybe not though out the year, but definitely in the finals).

Really? I mean really?

You are going to go to a per minute breakdown of plus minus to try to show that a 22 year old player with a stat line of 21 pts, 8 asts, 7rebs, 6 stls and a +24 somehow wasn't good or deeply important in a series clinching game for a championship?

Dang, I have heard it all now.

[Big333223]

I remember Eddie House being a big part of that team. His playing time fell off a cliff in the playoffs (I don't recall why partly because of Sam Cassell, I guess) but during the season the offense was always better with his on the floor. He was also instrumental in Game 4.

Rondo might've been the 5th most important player on that team but I think there is a clear Tier 1 (the big 3) and then a huge drop and a Tier 2 of Perkins, Rondo, Posey, House, and Allen (during the regular season). In the playoffs, House and Allen kind of fell out of the rotation but House still had the same mpg average as Perkins in the Finals.

Rondo was important but the gap from 3rd and 4th was much bigger than the gap between 4th and 8th, in terms of "most important".

[blink]

Rondo was the 4th most important player on that team. He led the team in assists and steals and was the second best defensive player on the team. He was also the second best shot creator on the team. And he was only 21 through most off the season.

He was important. His game 6 versus the Lakers with all the spotlight on him at 22 years old:

21 points
8 assists
7 rebounds
6 steals
+24.

He didn't show it all the time but you could see he was going to be special, if only for a few years.

In that game, Rondo played 32 minutes and Boston was +24 while he was on the floor.  In the 16 minutes Rondo didn't play Boston was +15.  In other words, Boston was actually better when Rondo wasn't in the game.  The other 5 games in that series, Rondo was poor to downright awful (game 1 was the only other game he had a positive +- and game 5 he was -15 in just under 15 minutes). Statistically though Rondo had the 4th best overall stats, but I do think Perkins and Posey were clearly more important than Rondo in that series (maybe not though out the year, but definitely in the finals).

That's twisting yourself like a pretzel to prove your point.  So in the finals deciding game, Rondo had 21/8/7/6 steals and that wasn't as good as Perkins?  oh my lord people.  Perk was ok as an enforcer type, he worked hard, and was a good solid defender, but he hardly shut down Gasol and he gave us pretty much nothing on offense (20 points all series for Perk).   

People forget that for two games Doc greatly reduced Rondo's minutes.  In game 4 he played 17 min, and game 5 he played 14 min.  In the other 4 games he made a much bigger impact than Perk, but probably not more than Posey.

I have to think he was the 5th most important player behind KG, PP, Ray, Posey.

[Big333223]

Rondo was the 4th most important player on that team. He led the team in assists and steals and was the second best defensive player on the team. He was also the second best shot creator on the team. And he was only 21 through most off the season.

He was important. His game 6 versus the Lakers with all the spotlight on him at 22 years old:

21 points
8 assists
7 rebounds
6 steals
+24.

He didn't show it all the time but you could see he was going to be special, if only for a few years.

In that game, Rondo played 32 minutes and Boston was +24 while he was on the floor.  In the 16 minutes Rondo didn't play Boston was +15.  In other words, Boston was actually better when Rondo wasn't in the game.  The other 5 games in that series, Rondo was poor to downright awful (game 1 was the only other game he had a positive +- and game 5 he was -15 in just under 15 minutes). Statistically though Rondo had the 4th best overall stats, but I do think Perkins and Posey were clearly more important than Rondo in that series (maybe not though out the year, but definitely in the finals).

That's twisting yourself like a pretzel to prove your point.  So in the finals deciding game, Rondo had 21/8/7/6 steals and that wasn't as good as Perkins?  oh my lord people.  Perk was ok as an enforcer type, he worked hard, and was a good solid defender, but he hardly shut down Gasol and he gave us pretty much nothing on offense (20 points all series for Perk).   

People forget that for two games Doc greatly reduced Rondo's minutes.  In game 4 he played 17 min, and game 5 he played 14 min.  In the other 4 games he made a much bigger impact than Perk, but probably not more than Posey.

I have to think he was the 5th most important player behind KG, PP, Ray, Posey.

I don't. It was done for a reason. The Celtics were playing better without Rondo those games.

[mmmmm]

I remember Eddie House being a big part of that team. His playing time fell off a cliff in the playoffs (I don't recall why partly because of Sam Cassell, I guess) but during the season the offense was always better with his on the floor. He was also instrumental in Game 4.

Rondo might've been the 5th most important player on that team but I think there is a clear Tier 1 (the big 3) and then a huge drop and a Tier 2 of Perkins, Rondo, Posey, House, and Allen (during the regular season). In the playoffs, House and Allen kind of fell out of the rotation but House still had the same mpg average as Perkins in the Finals.

Rondo was important but the gap from 3rd and 4th was much bigger than the gap between 4th and 8th, in terms of "most important".

I concur with this assessment.  Folks tend to blur the 2nd year Rondo of that title season, who was more of a 'strong supporting cast' with the more individually dominant star PG Rondo of the following 3 seasons.   

A telling stat that shows the difference in importance is Rondo's AST%, the percentage of his teammates shots that he assisted.   Rondo's first two seasons, he assisted 26.3% & 28.2% of his teammate's shots.  Those are solid percentages, typical of a PG, but nothing super notable.    The team still relied heavily on Pierce, KG, Cassell & others to dish assists during that season.  Rondo totaled 393 assists that season, but Pierce was not far behind with 363.

During the 2008 playoffs, Doc increased his reliance on Rondo's passing when he was on the floor, bumping his AST% up to 36%., but Pierce, KG and others still dished a large volume of the assists as well.   Rondo's overall Win Share value during those playoffs was still only 5th on the team and his accrual rate (WS/48) was 7th.  So he was a valuable part of that team, but hardly one of the top, most critical pieces.

In subsequent years, Rondo took control of a much larger share of the offense.  In his 3rd season his AST% was 39.7% and then, over the next 6 seasons it was never lower than 43.7%!!!

Rondo had a very good season in terms of Win Share value during the title season, posting 7.2 WS.  But it was his next two seasons, when that leaped to 9.9 and 9.6 WS, respectively, that he played like an all-star player.   After that, his win shares declined rather rapidly:  6.6, 4.9, 3.2, 1.1 & 1.6, sequentially, in his last years in Boston.

This is where Rondo's criticism of Thomas rings kinda hollow.   Because in the years when Rondo was actually playing his best basketball of his career, when he was legitimately one of the top players on his team, he didn't win any titles either.