Sam Hinkie was a genius. He's 100% right now.

[keevsnick]

For all further posts about Hinkie I'm just gonna link people to Ryan Bernardoni's great piece on the subject:

http://www.celticshub.com/2018/04/09/misplacing-trust-process/

I like this piece a lot Phosita. I particularly liked this discussion point:

"The supportive fans certainly feel like they’ve been vindicated and won, which maybe is all that matters in something as ethereal as sports fandom. They’ve leaned into tribalism and self-aggrandizement as much as any fan base in recent American sports memory. They make Deflategate-period Patriots fans look rational. As strong an argument can be made that they sacrificed years of enjoying their team to end up in the same place as their peers, though. Do Jazz fans wish that they had tanked away a four year span? Maybe the defiance from Process Trusters is as much a coping mechanism as true search for vindication."

I think that in a nutshell is why we see so many of these threads popping up. Even our fans that were invested in this process and debated it over the years now want to try and prove that they were very intelligent in their invested arguments over the year even though a team like the jazz or timberwolves is in a very similar spot from a completely different path. (When I was watching the wolves yesterday I couldn't help but they they would be favorites to win the east if they were in it)

To say the Jazz and the Sixers are in the same place is pretty silly.  This season they did end up around the same amount of wins (though the Sixers are a betting favorite for the ECF and the Jazz likely won't get out of the 1st round), but what do people think next year will look like, or the year after, or the year after, or the 5 to 10 years after that.

This. I mean it depends on what your goal is. The jazz are gonna be good, but id ventura to guess at no point in the next ten years will the be favored to win a chip. 76ers will. Thats before even knowing what their cap space or Fultz turn into. You can sit there and say you dont like the way the 76ers did it, but given the incentive that existed  its hard say they didnt make the right call
 

[Moranis]

For all further posts about Hinkie I'm just gonna link people to Ryan Bernardoni's great piece on the subject:

http://www.celticshub.com/2018/04/09/misplacing-trust-process/

I like this piece a lot Phosita. I particularly liked this discussion point:

"The supportive fans certainly feel like they’ve been vindicated and won, which maybe is all that matters in something as ethereal as sports fandom. They’ve leaned into tribalism and self-aggrandizement as much as any fan base in recent American sports memory. They make Deflategate-period Patriots fans look rational. As strong an argument can be made that they sacrificed years of enjoying their team to end up in the same place as their peers, though. Do Jazz fans wish that they had tanked away a four year span? Maybe the defiance from Process Trusters is as much a coping mechanism as true search for vindication."

I think that in a nutshell is why we see so many of these threads popping up. Even our fans that were invested in this process and debated it over the years now want to try and prove that they were very intelligent in their invested arguments over the year even though a team like the jazz or timberwolves is in a very similar spot from a completely different path. (When I was watching the wolves yesterday I couldn't help but they they would be favorites to win the east if they were in it)

To say the Jazz and the Sixers are in the same place is pretty silly.  This season they did end up around the same amount of wins (though the Sixers are a betting favorite for the ECF and the Jazz likely won't get out of the 1st round), but what do people think next year will look like, or the year after, or the year after, or the 5 to 10 years after that.

If you switch the Jazz and 76ers conferences the exact same is true. The 76ers would probably lose to OKC in the first round themselves. Lets not fall into this trap of pretending east teams are better than they are because the top 2 contenders from last year were decimated by chemistry (Kyrie Trade), Injuries (hayward) and 3-4 of the all-stars from last season went west (including dramatic game changers in George and Butler).

The jazz have a potentially transcendent star in Mitchell. Gobert is an incredible defensive player and is only a year older than embiid with less injury history. The Jazz also have 25 million in expiring deals they can trade next season and have cap space this offseason. If are going to say the Jazz somehow can't handle a franchise player in free agency the next two offseasons because they are not a desirable place for free agency that's not really their fault. 

The timberwolves would also be betting favorite to make the the ECF if they were in the east also. They lost by 3 on the road to the best team in the league despite their allstar going for 8 points.

The Sixers might lose to the Thunder, but I don't see the Jazz as being favored to make the ECF if they were the 3 seed in the East.  I think Miami could absolutely beat the Jazz and so could Boston or Milwaukee.  The Jazz just aren't on the same tier as the Sixers, both in current talent or projected future. 

Mitchell has had a great rookie year, but I don't see him as some sort of transcendent player in the vein of Embiid or Simmons.  Gobert is a fantastic defender and excellent rebounder, but he is a terrible offensive player.  Favors is the oldest 26 year old I've ever seen.  Ingles, Rubio, Crowder, etc. are role players.  Unless Exum wakes up as a different person, they only have Mitchell (and Gobert if you want to call him young) as any sort of young talent.  They have no great draft assets.  The Sixers on the other hand have 2 legitimate transcendent talents in Embiid and Simmons.  They have Saric who looks like he could be an all star.  They have Fultz who was the #1 pick and clearly has talent, how much is to be determined.  They have Covington who is basically a slightly lesser wing version of Gobert (i.e. great defender, good 3 shooter, but not much else). They also have the Lakers pick (or the Sacto pick).  The Sixers even have the better veteran role players in Redick, Ilyasova, Belinelli, and Johnson.

It is just a strange take to have the Jazz and Sixers as basically in the same place.  They aren't.  The Sixers are in a much better position, both in potential transcendent talent and in the ability to make roster moves (i.e. the Sixers have more cap space and more trade-able assets).

[droopdog7]

Dude got fired, which was one of the risks of his strategy.  So I beg to differ that he was right.

[PhoSita]

Patriots fans were the only rational fans in the NFL during Deflategate. They were the only ones that understood that cold weather can deflate a football a couple to a few tenths of a pound per square inch of pressure. 😁

I had the same thought, but then I am a Pats fan, so go figure.

[nickagneta]

Embiid has played 93 games in 4 years. When he gets to the point that he can play in 93 games in one season, playoffs and regular season combined, I will call the tankathon a success. Until then, they still goguaranteed.to me they have long term success guaranteed.

[PhoSita]

Re: Jazz / Wolves / Sixers:

The point of The Process, I thought, was to become a contender, not just a very good team.

All three of those teams has the talent on their roster to be very good for years to come.  Not clear yet if any of those three will seriously contend.

I think Simmons / Embiid is clearly the best combo of top talent out of those three teams.

That said, Butler / Towns and Mitchell / Gobert are pretty great combos as well, to the point where I think it really will just come down to coaching and how good a job those teams do in building a supporting cast.

Plus luck, of course.


It would be fair to point out that the Wolves missed the playoffs for over a decade in getting to where they are now, though.  The Jazz are a much more interesting comparison.

[celticsclay]

For all further posts about Hinkie I'm just gonna link people to Ryan Bernardoni's great piece on the subject:

http://www.celticshub.com/2018/04/09/misplacing-trust-process/

I like this piece a lot Phosita. I particularly liked this discussion point:

"The supportive fans certainly feel like they’ve been vindicated and won, which maybe is all that matters in something as ethereal as sports fandom. They’ve leaned into tribalism and self-aggrandizement as much as any fan base in recent American sports memory. They make Deflategate-period Patriots fans look rational. As strong an argument can be made that they sacrificed years of enjoying their team to end up in the same place as their peers, though. Do Jazz fans wish that they had tanked away a four year span? Maybe the defiance from Process Trusters is as much a coping mechanism as true search for vindication."

I think that in a nutshell is why we see so many of these threads popping up. Even our fans that were invested in this process and debated it over the years now want to try and prove that they were very intelligent in their invested arguments over the year even though a team like the jazz or timberwolves is in a very similar spot from a completely different path. (When I was watching the wolves yesterday I couldn't help but they they would be favorites to win the east if they were in it)

To say the Jazz and the Sixers are in the same place is pretty silly.  This season they did end up around the same amount of wins (though the Sixers are a betting favorite for the ECF and the Jazz likely won't get out of the 1st round), but what do people think next year will look like, or the year after, or the year after, or the 5 to 10 years after that.

If you switch the Jazz and 76ers conferences the exact same is true. The 76ers would probably lose to OKC in the first round themselves. Lets not fall into this trap of pretending east teams are better than they are because the top 2 contenders from last year were decimated by chemistry (Kyrie Trade), Injuries (hayward) and 3-4 of the all-stars from last season went west (including dramatic game changers in George and Butler).

The jazz have a potentially transcendent star in Mitchell. Gobert is an incredible defensive player and is only a year older than embiid with less injury history. The Jazz also have 25 million in expiring deals they can trade next season and have cap space this offseason. If are going to say the Jazz somehow can't handle a franchise player in free agency the next two offseasons because they are not a desirable place for free agency that's not really their fault. 

The timberwolves would also be betting favorite to make the the ECF if they were in the east also. They lost by 3 on the road to the best team in the league despite their allstar going for 8 points.

The Sixers might lose to the Thunder, but I don't see the Jazz as being favored to make the ECF if they were the 3 seed in the East.  I think Miami could absolutely beat the Jazz and so could Boston or Milwaukee.  The Jazz just aren't on the same tier as the Sixers, both in current talent or projected future. 

Mitchell has had a great rookie year, but I don't see him as some sort of transcendent player in the vein of Embiid or Simmons.  Gobert is a fantastic defender and excellent rebounder, but he is a terrible offensive player.  Favors is the oldest 26 year old I've ever seen.  Ingles, Rubio, Crowder, etc. are role players.  Unless Exum wakes up as a different person, they only have Mitchell (and Gobert if you want to call him young) as any sort of young talent.  They have no great draft assets.  The Sixers on the other hand have 2 legitimate transcendent talents in Embiid and Simmons.  They have Saric who looks like he could be an all star.  They have Fultz who was the #1 pick and clearly has talent, how much is to be determined.  They have Covington who is basically a slightly lesser wing version of Gobert (i.e. great defender, good 3 shooter, but not much else). They also have the Lakers pick (or the Sacto pick).  The Sixers even have the better veteran role players in Redick, Ilyasova, Belinelli, and Johnson.

It is just a strange take to have the Jazz and Sixers as basically in the same place.  They aren't.  The Sixers are in a much better position, both in potential transcendent talent and in the ability to make roster moves (i.e. the Sixers have more cap space and more trade-able assets).

You think Covington is a slightly less anything of Gobert? Jeez talk about criminally underrating Gobert. Gobert is the best defensive player in the league by a pretty decent margin and will definitely make some all-star games (most thought he deserved it last year, this year he was injured). Covington will never make an all-star team. I also would be very very surprised if Saric made an all-star game (a viewpoint i have seen many 76ers fan express). He is a very elite role player, but I don't think think he has enough athleticism or ability to create his own shot to become a fulltime star.

Regarding Mitchell, what does a rookie have to do to impress you? How many rookies in the last 20 years came in and scored 20 points a game for a mid-tier playoff team? I honestly can't think of any off the top of my head... who knows how he will develop but he definitely could be one of the best players in the entire league in the next few years and I don't understand the point of acting like he couldn't. It seems quite strange.

[greece66]

 Hinkie already won this team is an outstanding success already at this stage and he told ownership he was executing a 7-year plan. He's way ahead of schedule and imagine if they drafted Porzingis instead of Okafor.

 Or if they sign LeBron next year they will win a ring next year. And what thanks does Hinkie get. Fired. Tanking works. That's really weak how they treated that guy, he should have a GM job right now.

Oh boy... I don't even know what to start with, and I'm sure you won't listen to the arguments but anyway.

Just to be clear,  I think Hinkie was a good GM but you vastly exaggerate how good he was. This is what we disagree about. So:

1/Other teams have achieved similar results without getting exposed by the league.
2/Doesn't the current GM deserve some credit for the teams achievements?
3/Similarly, if (that's a big if) Lebron ends up in Philly why should Hinkie get the credit.
4/Philly's model is nearly impossible to replicate esp. with the new rules.
5/If he was so good, why did he lose his job?

tl;dr Hinkie is far from offering a blueprint for successful rebuildings. He made a very interesting experiment in Philly with some good results, but this kind of hardcore tanking is dead for good now.

[hpantazo]

For all further posts about Hinkie I'm just gonna link people to Ryan Bernardoni's great piece on the subject:

http://www.celticshub.com/2018/04/09/misplacing-trust-process/

I like this piece a lot Phosita. I particularly liked this discussion point:

"The supportive fans certainly feel like they’ve been vindicated and won, which maybe is all that matters in something as ethereal as sports fandom. They’ve leaned into tribalism and self-aggrandizement as much as any fan base in recent American sports memory. They make Deflategate-period Patriots fans look rational. As strong an argument can be made that they sacrificed years of enjoying their team to end up in the same place as their peers, though. Do Jazz fans wish that they had tanked away a four year span? Maybe the defiance from Process Trusters is as much a coping mechanism as true search for vindication."

I think that in a nutshell is why we see so many of these threads popping up. Even our fans that were invested in this process and debated it over the years now want to try and prove that they were very intelligent in their invested arguments over the year even though a team like the jazz or timberwolves is in a very similar spot from a completely different path. (When I was watching the wolves yesterday I couldn't help but they they would be favorites to win the east if they were in it)

To say the Jazz and the Sixers are in the same place is pretty silly.  This season they did end up around the same amount of wins (though the Sixers are a betting favorite for the ECF and the Jazz likely won't get out of the 1st round), but what do people think next year will look like, or the year after, or the year after, or the 5 to 10 years after that.

If you switch the Jazz and 76ers conferences the exact same is true. The 76ers would probably lose to OKC in the first round themselves. Lets not fall into this trap of pretending east teams are better than they are because the top 2 contenders from last year were decimated by chemistry (Kyrie Trade), Injuries (hayward) and 3-4 of the all-stars from last season went west (including dramatic game changers in George and Butler).

The jazz have a potentially transcendent star in Mitchell. Gobert is an incredible defensive player and is only a year older than embiid with less injury history. The Jazz also have 25 million in expiring deals they can trade next season and have cap space this offseason. If are going to say the Jazz somehow can't handle a franchise player in free agency the next two offseasons because they are not a desirable place for free agency that's not really their fault. 

The timberwolves would also be betting favorite to make the the ECF if they were in the east also. They lost by 3 on the road to the best team in the league despite their allstar going for 8 points.

The Sixers might lose to the Thunder, but I don't see the Jazz as being favored to make the ECF if they were the 3 seed in the East.  I think Miami could absolutely beat the Jazz and so could Boston or Milwaukee.  The Jazz just aren't on the same tier as the Sixers, both in current talent or projected future. 

Mitchell has had a great rookie year, but I don't see him as some sort of transcendent player in the vein of Embiid or Simmons.  Gobert is a fantastic defender and excellent rebounder, but he is a terrible offensive player.  Favors is the oldest 26 year old I've ever seen.  Ingles, Rubio, Crowder, etc. are role players.  Unless Exum wakes up as a different person, they only have Mitchell (and Gobert if you want to call him young) as any sort of young talent.  They have no great draft assets.  The Sixers on the other hand have 2 legitimate transcendent talents in Embiid and Simmons.  They have Saric who looks like he could be an all star.  They have Fultz who was the #1 pick and clearly has talent, how much is to be determined.  They have Covington who is basically a slightly lesser wing version of Gobert (i.e. great defender, good 3 shooter, but not much else). They also have the Lakers pick (or the Sacto pick).  The Sixers even have the better veteran role players in Redick, Ilyasova, Belinelli, and Johnson.

It is just a strange take to have the Jazz and Sixers as basically in the same place.  They aren't.  The Sixers are in a much better position, both in potential transcendent talent and in the ability to make roster moves (i.e. the Sixers have more cap space and more trade-able assets).

You think Covington is a slightly less anything of Gobert? Jeez talk about criminally underrating Gobert. Gobert is the best defensive player in the league by a pretty decent margin and will definitely make some all-star games (most thought he deserved it last year, this year he was injured). Covington will never make an all-star team. I also would be very very surprised if Saric made an all-star game (a viewpoint i have seen many 76ers fan express). He is a very elite role player, but I don't think think he has enough athleticism or ability to create his own shot to become a fulltime star.

Regarding Mitchell, what does a rookie have to do to impress you? How many rookies in the last 20 years came in and scored 20 points a game for a mid-tier playoff team? I honestly can't think of any off the top of my head... who knows how he will develop but he definitely could be one of the best players in the entire league in the next few years and I don't understand the point of acting like he couldn't. It seems quite strange.

Mitchell is also a two-way player, not just a scorer. He was drafted primarily for his defense. His offensive output combined with his defense makes him a candidate to be a top tier player in the league for years if he keeps it up and develops a little bit in the next year.

[footey]

Doesn’t take genius to tank for several consecutive years.

Just hutzpah.

It has paid off.

He actually got lucky with Embiid, who slipped to 3 due to injury concerns. Philly wanted Wiggins.

Okafor was a poor pick. Smart scouts rated Porzingis as better prospect. Certainly smart bloggers did.

Simmons they got with the first pick. He was consensus number 1.

[celticsclay]

For all further posts about Hinkie I'm just gonna link people to Ryan Bernardoni's great piece on the subject:

http://www.celticshub.com/2018/04/09/misplacing-trust-process/

I like this piece a lot Phosita. I particularly liked this discussion point:

"The supportive fans certainly feel like they’ve been vindicated and won, which maybe is all that matters in something as ethereal as sports fandom. They’ve leaned into tribalism and self-aggrandizement as much as any fan base in recent American sports memory. They make Deflategate-period Patriots fans look rational. As strong an argument can be made that they sacrificed years of enjoying their team to end up in the same place as their peers, though. Do Jazz fans wish that they had tanked away a four year span? Maybe the defiance from Process Trusters is as much a coping mechanism as true search for vindication."

I think that in a nutshell is why we see so many of these threads popping up. Even our fans that were invested in this process and debated it over the years now want to try and prove that they were very intelligent in their invested arguments over the year even though a team like the jazz or timberwolves is in a very similar spot from a completely different path. (When I was watching the wolves yesterday I couldn't help but they they would be favorites to win the east if they were in it)

To say the Jazz and the Sixers are in the same place is pretty silly.  This season they did end up around the same amount of wins (though the Sixers are a betting favorite for the ECF and the Jazz likely won't get out of the 1st round), but what do people think next year will look like, or the year after, or the year after, or the 5 to 10 years after that.

If you switch the Jazz and 76ers conferences the exact same is true. The 76ers would probably lose to OKC in the first round themselves. Lets not fall into this trap of pretending east teams are better than they are because the top 2 contenders from last year were decimated by chemistry (Kyrie Trade), Injuries (hayward) and 3-4 of the all-stars from last season went west (including dramatic game changers in George and Butler).

The jazz have a potentially transcendent star in Mitchell. Gobert is an incredible defensive player and is only a year older than embiid with less injury history. The Jazz also have 25 million in expiring deals they can trade next season and have cap space this offseason. If are going to say the Jazz somehow can't handle a franchise player in free agency the next two offseasons because they are not a desirable place for free agency that's not really their fault. 

The timberwolves would also be betting favorite to make the the ECF if they were in the east also. They lost by 3 on the road to the best team in the league despite their allstar going for 8 points.

The Sixers might lose to the Thunder, but I don't see the Jazz as being favored to make the ECF if they were the 3 seed in the East.  I think Miami could absolutely beat the Jazz and so could Boston or Milwaukee.  The Jazz just aren't on the same tier as the Sixers, both in current talent or projected future. 

Mitchell has had a great rookie year, but I don't see him as some sort of transcendent player in the vein of Embiid or Simmons.  Gobert is a fantastic defender and excellent rebounder, but he is a terrible offensive player.  Favors is the oldest 26 year old I've ever seen.  Ingles, Rubio, Crowder, etc. are role players.  Unless Exum wakes up as a different person, they only have Mitchell (and Gobert if you want to call him young) as any sort of young talent.  They have no great draft assets.  The Sixers on the other hand have 2 legitimate transcendent talents in Embiid and Simmons.  They have Saric who looks like he could be an all star.  They have Fultz who was the #1 pick and clearly has talent, how much is to be determined.  They have Covington who is basically a slightly lesser wing version of Gobert (i.e. great defender, good 3 shooter, but not much else). They also have the Lakers pick (or the Sacto pick).  The Sixers even have the better veteran role players in Redick, Ilyasova, Belinelli, and Johnson.

It is just a strange take to have the Jazz and Sixers as basically in the same place.  They aren't.  The Sixers are in a much better position, both in potential transcendent talent and in the ability to make roster moves (i.e. the Sixers have more cap space and more trade-able assets).

You think Covington is a slightly less anything of Gobert? Jeez talk about criminally underrating Gobert. Gobert is the best defensive player in the league by a pretty decent margin and will definitely make some all-star games (most thought he deserved it last year, this year he was injured). Covington will never make an all-star team. I also would be very very surprised if Saric made an all-star game (a viewpoint i have seen many 76ers fan express). He is a very elite role player, but I don't think think he has enough athleticism or ability to create his own shot to become a fulltime star.

Regarding Mitchell, what does a rookie have to do to impress you? How many rookies in the last 20 years came in and scored 20 points a game for a mid-tier playoff team? I honestly can't think of any off the top of my head... who knows how he will develop but he definitely could be one of the best players in the entire league in the next few years and I don't understand the point of acting like he couldn't. It seems quite strange.

Mitchell is also a two-way player, not just a scorer. He was drafted primarily for his defense. His offensive output combined with his defense makes him a candidate to be a top tier player in the league for years if he keeps it up and develops a little bit in the next year.

yea. I don't know anyone can look at what he is done and think he doesn't have a chance to be a top player in the league. Sounds like just belittling to pump up another team.

[Moranis]

For all further posts about Hinkie I'm just gonna link people to Ryan Bernardoni's great piece on the subject:

http://www.celticshub.com/2018/04/09/misplacing-trust-process/

I like this piece a lot Phosita. I particularly liked this discussion point:

"The supportive fans certainly feel like they’ve been vindicated and won, which maybe is all that matters in something as ethereal as sports fandom. They’ve leaned into tribalism and self-aggrandizement as much as any fan base in recent American sports memory. They make Deflategate-period Patriots fans look rational. As strong an argument can be made that they sacrificed years of enjoying their team to end up in the same place as their peers, though. Do Jazz fans wish that they had tanked away a four year span? Maybe the defiance from Process Trusters is as much a coping mechanism as true search for vindication."

I think that in a nutshell is why we see so many of these threads popping up. Even our fans that were invested in this process and debated it over the years now want to try and prove that they were very intelligent in their invested arguments over the year even though a team like the jazz or timberwolves is in a very similar spot from a completely different path. (When I was watching the wolves yesterday I couldn't help but they they would be favorites to win the east if they were in it)

To say the Jazz and the Sixers are in the same place is pretty silly.  This season they did end up around the same amount of wins (though the Sixers are a betting favorite for the ECF and the Jazz likely won't get out of the 1st round), but what do people think next year will look like, or the year after, or the year after, or the 5 to 10 years after that.

If you switch the Jazz and 76ers conferences the exact same is true. The 76ers would probably lose to OKC in the first round themselves. Lets not fall into this trap of pretending east teams are better than they are because the top 2 contenders from last year were decimated by chemistry (Kyrie Trade), Injuries (hayward) and 3-4 of the all-stars from last season went west (including dramatic game changers in George and Butler).

The jazz have a potentially transcendent star in Mitchell. Gobert is an incredible defensive player and is only a year older than embiid with less injury history. The Jazz also have 25 million in expiring deals they can trade next season and have cap space this offseason. If are going to say the Jazz somehow can't handle a franchise player in free agency the next two offseasons because they are not a desirable place for free agency that's not really their fault. 

The timberwolves would also be betting favorite to make the the ECF if they were in the east also. They lost by 3 on the road to the best team in the league despite their allstar going for 8 points.

The Sixers might lose to the Thunder, but I don't see the Jazz as being favored to make the ECF if they were the 3 seed in the East.  I think Miami could absolutely beat the Jazz and so could Boston or Milwaukee.  The Jazz just aren't on the same tier as the Sixers, both in current talent or projected future. 

Mitchell has had a great rookie year, but I don't see him as some sort of transcendent player in the vein of Embiid or Simmons.  Gobert is a fantastic defender and excellent rebounder, but he is a terrible offensive player.  Favors is the oldest 26 year old I've ever seen.  Ingles, Rubio, Crowder, etc. are role players.  Unless Exum wakes up as a different person, they only have Mitchell (and Gobert if you want to call him young) as any sort of young talent.  They have no great draft assets.  The Sixers on the other hand have 2 legitimate transcendent talents in Embiid and Simmons.  They have Saric who looks like he could be an all star.  They have Fultz who was the #1 pick and clearly has talent, how much is to be determined.  They have Covington who is basically a slightly lesser wing version of Gobert (i.e. great defender, good 3 shooter, but not much else). They also have the Lakers pick (or the Sacto pick).  The Sixers even have the better veteran role players in Redick, Ilyasova, Belinelli, and Johnson.

It is just a strange take to have the Jazz and Sixers as basically in the same place.  They aren't.  The Sixers are in a much better position, both in potential transcendent talent and in the ability to make roster moves (i.e. the Sixers have more cap space and more trade-able assets).

You think Covington is a slightly less anything of Gobert? Jeez talk about criminally underrating Gobert. Gobert is the best defensive player in the league by a pretty decent margin and will definitely make some all-star games (most thought he deserved it last year, this year he was injured). Covington will never make an all-star team. I also would be very very surprised if Saric made an all-star game (a viewpoint i have seen many 76ers fan express). He is a very elite role player, but I don't think think he has enough athleticism or ability to create his own shot to become a fulltime star.

Regarding Mitchell, what does a rookie have to do to impress you? How many rookies in the last 20 years came in and scored 20 points a game for a mid-tier playoff team? I honestly can't think of any off the top of my head... who knows how he will develop but he definitely could be one of the best players in the entire league in the next few years and I don't understand the point of acting like he couldn't. It seems quite strange.

Mitchell is also a two-way player, not just a scorer. He was drafted primarily for his defense. His offensive output combined with his defense makes him a candidate to be a top tier player in the league for years if he keeps it up and develops a little bit in the next year.

yea. I don't know anyone can look at what he is done and think he doesn't have a chance to be a top player in the league. Sounds like just belittling to pump up another team.

transcendent is a very special class of players, and I just don't see Mitchell as being that type of player.  He could certainly have a Paul Pierce level career, but I don't see him as a Larry Bird level of player (and I'm not talking about style of play).  I think Simmons and Embiid could both be a Larry Bird level of player.  But just because those players could be those things, doesn't mean they will and Mitchell might very well end up better than both Embiid and Simmons (though that seems unlikely).  That said, even if you put Mitchell in the same class, there is just 1 Mitchell and there are 2 Embiid/Simmons.  The teams just aren't really in the same place for that reason alone. 

[nickagneta]

I'll consider Simmons transcendent when he can do what he does, shoot over 30% from three on a few threes per game and can hit free throws over 75%. He ain't anywhere near that so I don't see him as a transcendent talent.

[Moranis]

I'll consider Simmons transcendent when he can do what he does, shoot over 30% from three on a few threes per game and can hit free throws over 75%. He ain't anywhere near that so I don't see him as a transcendent talent.

For 9 years, Magic Johnson barely shot a 3 pointer (though he did hit his foul shots).  Heck Michael Jordan ended his career shooting 32.7% from 3.  Then you have all the big guys who don't shoot well from anywhere.  I mean Tim Duncan's rookie year he averaged 21.1/11.9/2.7 without hitting a 3 pointer and shooting 66.2% from the line.  He was 6'11", 250 pounds.  Why shouldn't Simmons be held more to that standard given he is 6'10", 230 (or whatever he is now)?  16/8/8 from anyone, let alone a rookie, is an incredible stat line. 

[mctyson]

Doesn’t take genius to tank for several consecutive years.

Just hutzpah.

It has paid off.

He actually got lucky with Embiid, who slipped to 3 due to injury concerns. Philly wanted Wiggins.

Okafor was a poor pick. Smart scouts rated Porzingis as better prospect. Certainly smart bloggers did.

Simmons they got with the first pick. He was consensus number 1.

Correct, if so then the Clippers would be a library of scholarly work.