CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: CelticsQuestFor18 on February 09, 2018, 12:12:20 PM
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Hey all,
Just curious what you guys think and where you rank Kyrie across the landscape.
Kind of exciting to think about it, and while it may not matter, it still is a fun thing to maybe debate.
I consider Kyrie Top-15 now (around 12-14 range). But before the season I had him Top-20 (around 16-18 range). He's definitely become a better playmaker here in Boston, and also seems to be playing pretty good defense too (not elite but I'd say average to above average - definitely not a liability).
That said, seems like a lot of people in the media, social media, talk shows and talk show hosts, and even players say Kyrie is a "superstar" in this league and a Top-10 player (or very close, on the edge of being Top-10).
He's currently averaging 24.8 PPG, 3.7 APG, and 5.0 APG in 33 minutes/game.
Anyways, really happy we have Kyrie here (even though I do miss Isaiah - The Little Guy - and thought we overpaid dearly back in August), but what do you all think?
For realistic purposes, I'm not saying he's worse than Top-20 in this poll (because honestly I don't think many think that unless you hate Kyrie with a passion or something).
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I think Kyrie is a top 10 player, especially after being able to see him play every game for the Celtics. He is insanely talented and makes difficult plays look routine.
I forget which particular game it was, but it was during the Eastern conference finals last season. It looked liked Kyrie may have turned his ankle after a drive, and my immediate reaction was the Celtics may have a chance if Kyrie is hurt. Little did I know, but Kyrie then went off and seemed like he couldn't miss a shot if he tried. I don't ever recall seeing a stretch like that by a player in my life. I was in such awe that I found myself rooting for the guy to continue.
There are many super talented players in the NBA, and most can take over a game when it's needed. However, I think Kyrie is part of a select group that can perform the feat on the big stage and carry a team . To me, that separates Kyrie and firmly places him in the top 10. You can have the Greek Freak, James Harden and Chris Paul, who are all great players. But their next made big shot in a high profile game, may be their first.
Just curious as to who is in your top ten.
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8-13 range ,
He is the most entertaining guard since prime Rondo . Kyrie is so fun to watch . He is Uncle Drew .
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Top-10, 15, 18. It’s all pretty arbitrary.
He’s good enough to be the best player on a good playoff team.
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This are my current rankings. Kyrie is in 13th place, so just outside top 10.
Tier 1: James, Durant
Tier 2: Harden, Davis, Leonard, Westbrook, Curry, Antetokounmpo
Tier 3: George, Cousins, Wall, Butler, Irving
Tier 4: Paul, Embiid, Lillard, Griffin, DeRozan, Towns
Tier 5: Aldridge, Walker, Jokic, Gobert, Oladipo, D.Green, Drummond, Thompson
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Top-10, 15, 18. It’s all pretty arbitrary.
He’s good enough to be the best player on a good playoff team.
Ah, but is he good enough to the best player on a title team? That is really the only thing that matters.
As for the question, he isn't a top 10 player, but he is having a top 10 season.
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This are my current rankings. Kyrie is in 13th place, so just outside top 10.
Tier 1: James, Durant
Tier 2: Harden, Davis, Leonard, Westbrook, Curry, Antetokounmpo
Tier 3: George, Cousins, Wall, Butler, Irving
Tier 4: Paul, Embiid, Lillard, Griffin, DeRozan, Towns
Tier 5: Aldridge, Walker, Jokic, Gobert, Oladipo, D.Green, Drummond, Thompson
Those are great tiers. I like that and agree with them, except maybe for the order within each tier.
In Tier 3 I'd put Kyrie/Cousins/Butler at the beginning in a tie, and move George and Wall to the end. All three of those first guys play different positions so it's hard to compare apple to apples, but I think all three are go-to, clutch guys. Not so sure about George any more and I've never liked Wall outside of him on the fast break. His defense is atrocious and he stands around more than anyone.
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Top-10, 15, 18. It’s all pretty arbitrary.
He’s good enough to be the best player on a good playoff team.
Yeah, totally agree
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He's Top 15.
Though Bleacher did release some Player Rankings like 2 weeks ago (w/Top 100 NBA Players), and Kyrie was #11 on that list.
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This are my current rankings. Kyrie is in 13th place, so just outside top 10.
Tier 1: James, Durant
Tier 2: Harden, Davis, Leonard, Westbrook, Curry, Antetokounmpo
Tier 3: George, Cousins, Wall, Butler, Irving
Tier 4: Paul, Embiid, Lillard, Griffin, DeRozan, Towns
Tier 5: Aldridge, Walker, Jokic, Gobert, Oladipo, D.Green, Drummond, Thompson
TP, Nice tiers.
Its hard to argue with.
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Top-10, 15, 18. It’s all pretty arbitrary.
He’s good enough to be the best player on a good playoff team.
Ah, but is he good enough to the best player on a title team? That is really the only thing that matters.
As for the question, he isn't a top 10 player, but he is having a top 10 season.
I think so, but the rest of that team better be really good. Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Horford and a diesel bench is capable of winning a title. In this scenario, we need bench players that would start on other teams.
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This are my current rankings. Kyrie is in 13th place, so just outside top 10.
Tier 1: James, Durant
Tier 2: Harden, Davis, Leonard, Westbrook, Curry, Antetokounmpo
Tier 3: George, Cousins, Wall, Butler, Irving
Tier 4: Paul, Embiid, Lillard, Griffin, DeRozan, Towns
Tier 5: Aldridge, Walker, Jokic, Gobert, Oladipo, D.Green, Drummond, Thompson
I don't see how cousins wall butler and George are on the same level as kyrie. Kyrie is much better and impactful
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You guys are giving him way too much credit. His playmaking hasn't changed and neither has his defense. I'll believe went he can run an offense without it falling into pure isolation trash. Run the plays and get your teammates into a rhythm before going Rambo
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This are my current rankings. Kyrie is in 13th place, so just outside top 10.
Tier 1: James, Durant
Tier 2: Harden, Davis, Leonard, Westbrook, Curry, Antetokounmpo
Tier 3: George, Cousins, Wall, Butler, Irving
Tier 4: Paul, Embiid, Lillard, Griffin, DeRozan, Towns
Tier 5: Aldridge, Walker, Jokic, Gobert, Oladipo, D.Green, Drummond, Thompson
I don't see how cousins wall butler and George are on the same level as kyrie. Kyrie is much better and impactful
Wall is two tiers too high. He was barely an all star this year. Since cousins is probably not the same anymore that puts Irving in the top 10 at tier 3.
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I'd say if Kyrie is Top-10, Lilliard should be too (or on the edge), but most consider him to be a "distant" Top-15.
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I wouldn't put him top 10. Still a lousy defensive player and not much of a playmaker. Great player sure, but not top 10.
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I wouldn't put him top 10. Still a lousy defensive player and not much of a playmaker. Great player sure, but not top 10.
He's not Top-10, but are you sure that he's a lousy defensive player and not a playmaker???
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Kyrie’s clutch closing abilities put him in the top 10, IMO.
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Kyrie’s clutch closing abilities put him in the top 10, IMO.
Stephen A. Smith called him a "clone of Kobe" in Friday's First Take episode. Hopefully that means another 4 titles for Kyrie in Boston ;D
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I think Kyrie is a top 10 player, especially after being able to see him play every game for the Celtics. He is insanely talented and makes difficult plays look routine.
I forget which particular game it was, but it was during the Eastern conference finals last season. It looked liked Kyrie may have turned his ankle after a drive, and my immediate reaction was the Celtics may have a chance if Kyrie is hurt. Little did I know, but Kyrie then went off and seemed like he couldn't miss a shot if he tried. I don't ever recall seeing a stretch like that by a player in my life. I was in such awe that I found myself rooting for the guy to continue.
There are many super talented players in the NBA, and most can take over a game when it's needed. However, I think Kyrie is part of a select group that can perform the feat on the big stage and carry a team . To me, that separates Kyrie and firmly places him in the top 10. You can have the Greek Freak, James Harden and Chris Paul, who are all great players. But their next made big shot in a high profile game, may be their first.
Just curious as to who is in your top ten.
In my Top 10, I have (in no order) Lebron, Durant, Curry, Harden, Davis, Cousins, Westbrook, Greek Freak, Kawhi Leonard (when healthy) and CP3 (he looks super good this year tbh).
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This are my current rankings. Kyrie is in 13th place, so just outside top 10.
Tier 1: James, Durant
Tier 2: Harden, Davis, Leonard, Westbrook, Curry, Antetokounmpo
Tier 3: George, Cousins, Wall, Butler, Irving
Tier 4: Paul, Embiid, Lillard, Griffin, DeRozan, Towns
Tier 5: Aldridge, Walker, Jokic, Gobert, Oladipo, D.Green, Drummond, Thompson
This post and the comments on it confirm once again that Chris Paul is the most-disrespected player in the history of the NBA.
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This are my current rankings. Kyrie is in 13th place, so just outside top 10.
Tier 1: James, Durant
Tier 2: Harden, Davis, Leonard, Westbrook, Curry, Antetokounmpo
Tier 3: George, Cousins, Wall, Butler, Irving
Tier 4: Paul, Embiid, Lillard, Griffin, DeRozan, Towns
Tier 5: Aldridge, Walker, Jokic, Gobert, Oladipo, D.Green, Drummond, Thompson
This post and the comments on it confirm once again that Chris Paul is the most-disrespected player in the history of the NBA.
As Germanized Croats would say: He is die Spanner!" (The Wrench, great player)
But when you have 10 years of playoff experience that is marked with:
1) Inability to remain healthy when it matters.
2) When healthy he makes franchise altering mistakes. - OKC
Purely by skill he is "the professor" to Wbrook, Wall, AD...no doubt about that.
But with him it is one of those:
"I have a great, fast car, but I'm keeping it in my garage."
I respond: What is the use of that car then?
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This are my current rankings. Kyrie is in 13th place, so just outside top 10.
Tier 1: James, Durant
Tier 2: Harden, Davis, Leonard, Westbrook, Curry, Antetokounmpo
Tier 3: George, Cousins, Wall, Butler, Irving
Tier 4: Paul, Embiid, Lillard, Griffin, DeRozan, Towns
Tier 5: Aldridge, Walker, Jokic, Gobert, Oladipo, D.Green, Drummond, Thompson
This post and the comments on it confirm once again that Chris Paul is the most-disrespected player in the history of the NBA.
He's definitely had a helluva season so far for HOU.
The gamble he took this summer seems to be paying off at the moment.
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I think there is a good argument for Embiid being a top 10 player. He probably should be the DPOY this year and he's certainly a top 5 defender in the league playing the most important defensive position. He's also an offensive force having to carry a huge load for the Sixers. He's 3rd in usage and is assisted on less than half of his field goals unlike AD and Towns who are assisted on 70% of their field goals.
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I think there is a good argument for Embiid being a top 10 player. He probably should be the DPOY this year and he's certainly a top 5 defender in the league playing the most important defensive position. He's also an offensive force having to carry a huge load for the Sixers. He's 3rd in usage and is assisted on less than half of his field goals unlike AD and Towns who are assisted on 70% of their field goals.
Well actually I remember a few months ago saying that Embiid was a Top-10 player when discussing why I had Kyrie outside my Top-10 (had him around #13 at the time), and I got ripped apart by many posters here :P
I certainly could see the injury aspect of it all, and the lack of games up until this point for Embiid due to injuries (and not playing the 2nd of back-to-backs often), but if he stays healthy and keeps it up, he'll be a consistent Top-10 player in the league.
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I wouldn't put him top 10. Still a lousy defensive player and not much of a playmaker. Great player sure, but not top 10.
He's not Top-10, but are you sure that he's a lousy defensive player and not a playmaker???
Yes, no doubt about it.
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I wouldn't put him top 10. Still a lousy defensive player and not much of a playmaker. Great player sure, but not top 10.
He's not Top-10, but are you sure that he's a lousy defensive player and not a playmaker???
Yes, no doubt about it.
Man, forums are filled with bad takes as of late
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I wouldn't put him top 10. Still a lousy defensive player and not much of a playmaker. Great player sure, but not top 10.
He's not Top-10, but are you sure that he's a lousy defensive player and not a playmaker???
Yes, no doubt about it.
Man, forums are filled with bad takes as of late
Must be from all the frustration building up from the slow servers and "connection problems" messages :laugh:
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Some people think DeRozan THIS year is playing like a Top-10 player in the league.
I wonder what that would mean for Kyrie in this "hypothetical" ranking list.
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I wouldn't put him top 10. Still a lousy defensive player and not much of a playmaker. Great player sure, but not top 10.
He's not Top-10, but are you sure that he's a lousy defensive player and not a playmaker???
Yes, no doubt about it.
Man, forums are filled with bad takes as of late
I think Kyrie’s defense has regressed, and he’s never been much of a playmaker. He’s, what, 30th in assists, behind our starting center? We went from 2nd in assists per possession last season to 20th now. We’ve got some real issues with playmaking, and at least some blame falls on Kyrie.
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I wouldn't put him top 10. Still a lousy defensive player and not much of a playmaker. Great player sure, but not top 10.
He's not Top-10, but are you sure that he's a lousy defensive player and not a playmaker???
Yes, no doubt about it.
Man, forums are filled with bad takes as of late
I think Kyrie’s defense has regressed, and he’s never been much of a playmaker. He’s, what, 30th in assists, behind our starting center? We went from 2nd in assists per possession last season to 20th now. We’ve got some real issues with playmaking, and at least some blame falls on Kyrie.
Yeah that's true. I start to wonder if Smart being out impacts this too.
He (along with Bradley) helped cover Isaiah's deficiencies on defense last year, and now with Smart out, it seems like the overall hustle and effort has taken a hit on the team, including Kyrie on the defensive end.
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I believe he is a top-20 talent at this point.
He's a scoring guard and his excellence is attributed to his exceptional efficiency as a scorer. However, he is a below average defender (and one could argue that "below average" is a conservative take) and he is a fairly unimpressive passer and playmaker. In my opinion, he is fantastic at creating for himself but not as effective at creating for others. Depending on how much value you place on scoring, this could put him in the top-10 conversation due to how terrifically efficient he is, but I believe there are players that can do more in addition to efficiently dropping 20 or 25 a game.
Guards like Paul, Steph, Harden, and Westbrook produce comparable scoring output to a degree, but make other major contributions to their teams. Even in a case like Westbrook, where his shooting efficiency is substantially lower than that of Kyrie, his defensive impact, rebounding, and his ability to create for his teammates are more than enough to make up for poor shooting percentages. Or in the case of Harden, he scores significantly more points (approximately 7 PPG) and also drops 4 more assists than Kyrie in about 3 or 4 minutes per game. Sure, Harden is not a DPOY candidate, but he brings more to the table on the offensive end in a substantial tangible way that Kyrie cannot match.
One thing to keep in mind is that Kyrie is still 25 years old and his game is still developing. Time will tell if he can develop other aspects of his game and take that additional leap. But even if he were to stay the same, he is still a great player in his own right, and his game will age well given his below-the-rim style of play.
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I wouldn't put him top 10. Still a lousy defensive player and not much of a playmaker. Great player sure, but not top 10.
He's not Top-10, but are you sure that he's a lousy defensive player and not a playmaker???
Yes, no doubt about it.
Man, forums are filled with bad takes as of late
I think Kyrie’s defense has regressed, and he’s never been much of a playmaker. He’s, what, 30th in assists, behind our starting center? We went from 2nd in assists per possession last season to 20th now. We’ve got some real issues with playmaking, and at least some blame falls on Kyrie.
Some falls on Irving, but honestly I think its a lot due to the personnel.
Tatum, Morris and to a lesser extent Brown all do more off the dribble than Bradley and Crowder do. Those guys are pretty exclusively catch and shoot players.
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I wouldn't put him top 10. Still a lousy defensive player and not much of a playmaker. Great player sure, but not top 10.
He's not Top-10, but are you sure that he's a lousy defensive player and not a playmaker???
Yes, no doubt about it.
Man, forums are filled with bad takes as of late
I think Kyrie’s defense has regressed, and he’s never been much of a playmaker. He’s, what, 30th in assists, behind our starting center? We went from 2nd in assists per possession last season to 20th now. We’ve got some real issues with playmaking, and at least some blame falls on Kyrie.
Some falls on Irving, but honestly I think its a lot due to the personnel.
Tatum, Morris and to a lesser extent Brown all do more off the dribble than Bradley and Crowder do. Those guys are pretty exclusively catch and shoot players.
I don’t necessarily buy that adding more skilled offensive players is the reason why our assists dropped from second to 20th, or why our overall offense went from 8th to 25th.
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I believe he is a top-20 talent at this point.
He's a scoring guard and his excellence is attributed to his exceptional efficiency as a scorer. However, he is a below average defender (and one could argue that "below average" is a conservative take) and he is a fairly unimpressive passer and playmaker. In my opinion, he is fantastic at creating for himself but not as effective at creating for others. Depending on how much value you place on scoring, this could put him in the top-10 conversation due to how terrifically efficient he is, but I believe there are players that can do more in addition to efficiently dropping 20 or 25 a game.
Guards like Paul, Steph, Harden, and Westbrook produce comparable scoring output to a degree, but make other major contributions to their teams. Even in a case like Westbrook, where his shooting efficiency is substantially lower than that of Kyrie, his defensive impact, rebounding, and his ability to create for his teammates are more than enough to make up for poor shooting percentages. Or in the case of Harden, he scores significantly more points (approximately 7 PPG) and also drops 4 more assists than Kyrie in about 3 or 4 minutes per game. Sure, Harden is not a DPOY candidate, but he brings more to the table on the offensive end in a substantial tangible way that Kyrie cannot match.
One thing to keep in mind is that Kyrie is still 25 years old and his game is still developing. Time will tell if he can develop other aspects of his game and take that additional leap. But even if he were to stay the same, he is still a great player in his own right, and his game will age well given his below-the-rim style of play.
Wow. TP. Very well said!
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I wouldn't put him top 10. Still a lousy defensive player and not much of a playmaker. Great player sure, but not top 10.
He's not Top-10, but are you sure that he's a lousy defensive player and not a playmaker???
Yes, no doubt about it.
Man, forums are filled with bad takes as of late
I think Kyrie’s defense has regressed, and he’s never been much of a playmaker. He’s, what, 30th in assists, behind our starting center? We went from 2nd in assists per possession last season to 20th now. We’ve got some real issues with playmaking, and at least some blame falls on Kyrie.
Some falls on Irving, but honestly I think its a lot due to the personnel.
Tatum, Morris and to a lesser extent Brown all do more off the dribble than Bradley and Crowder do. Those guys are pretty exclusively catch and shoot players.
I don’t necessarily buy that adding more skilled offensive players is the reason why our assists dropped from second to 20th, or why our overall offense went from 8th to 25th.
Are you saying it's not the sole reason or do you not think that switching out spot-up shooters for more creative ballhandlers would have an affect on team assists?
I think the loss of veterans who knew how to move away from the ball and a total overhaul in personel also goes into it, but having more guys who can/want to go one-on-one matters too.
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I wouldn't put him top 10. Still a lousy defensive player and not much of a playmaker. Great player sure, but not top 10.
He's not Top-10, but are you sure that he's a lousy defensive player and not a playmaker???
Yes, no doubt about it.
Man, forums are filled with bad takes as of late
I think Kyrie’s defense has regressed, and he’s never been much of a playmaker. He’s, what, 30th in assists, behind our starting center? We went from 2nd in assists per possession last season to 20th now. We’ve got some real issues with playmaking, and at least some blame falls on Kyrie.
Some, but not the majority. Other than Kyrie/IT, Horford, Smart and Rozier (our PG and the three carryovers), here are the AST% of the remaining rotation guys last year and this year:
2016
Crowder 10.1%
Bradley 11.0%
Amir 13.0%
Olynyk 15.2%
2017
Tatum 7.2%
Brown 8.0%
Baynes 7.9%
Morris 8.4%
We took a few passable playmakers and one good one (KO), and swapped them out for four black holes, basically.
For all the ways Tatum has exceeded expectations this year, his ball-stopping has certainly been as advertised. Brown is pretty atrocious too. And those two have played more minutes than Horford and Irving. Tatum, Brown, Baynes and Morris are essentially incapable of creating for others, and that's 3 of our 5 starters.
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I wouldn't put him top 10. Still a lousy defensive player and not much of a playmaker. Great player sure, but not top 10.
He's not Top-10, but are you sure that he's a lousy defensive player and not a playmaker???
Yes, no doubt about it.
Man, forums are filled with bad takes as of late
I think Kyrie’s defense has regressed, and he’s never been much of a playmaker. He’s, what, 30th in assists, behind our starting center? We went from 2nd in assists per possession last season to 20th now. We’ve got some real issues with playmaking, and at least some blame falls on Kyrie.
Some, but not the majority. Other than Kyrie/IT, Horford, Smart and Rozier (our PG and the three carryovers), here are the AST% of the remaining rotation guys last year and this year:
2016
Crowder 10.1%
Bradley 11.0%
Amir 13.0%
Olynyk 15.2%
2017
Tatum 7.2%
Brown 8.0%
Baynes 7.9%
Morris 8.4%
We took a few passable playmakers and one good one (KO), and swapped them out for four black holes, basically.
For all the ways Tatum has exceeded expectations this year, his ball-stopping has certainly been as advertised. Brown is pretty atrocious too. And those two have played more minutes than Horford and Irving. Tatum, Brown, Baynes and Morris are essentially incapable of creating for others, and that's 3 of our 5 starters.
Interesting. From the guys that left last year I have to say that I miss Olynyk the most. But when I see these assist percentages, I think of the criticism in another thread about what the NBA considers to be an assist. That when a player makes two dribbles the initial pass still counts as an assist.
Maybe a big part of the assists by Crowder, Bradley and Johnson was just about giving the ball back to Thomas in a situation where there was no space for them to shoot the ball. Since neither of them can create shots of the dribble. And if Thomas then created his own basket it may still often have counted as an assist.
Tatum, Brown and Morris can create their own shot. Therefore they don't always have to pass the ball when there's no space to immediately shoot. Sometimes it's favorable that they attack mismatches or drive to the basket. So I don't think their low assist percentages are necessarily a bad thing, besides I find that Tatum (and even Brown) has shown at times that he has good court vision. I definetely see some playmaking ability in him.
On the other hand I see very little in Baynes as a playmaker in the Horford-role what we sometimes see them trying. And the high correlation between quality of offense and the amount of assists shows that coaches are right to emphasize ball movement. You have to be elite or have a clear mismatch to go for the isolation-play. That's why I don't like Morris. He's good, but not elite and therefore doesn't warrant to play that way.
Tatum and Brown could develop in elite players, I don't mind that they are actively looking what their capabilities are.
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I wouldn't put him top 10. Still a lousy defensive player and not much of a playmaker. Great player sure, but not top 10.
He's not Top-10, but are you sure that he's a lousy defensive player and not a playmaker???
Yes, no doubt about it.
Man, forums are filled with bad takes as of late
I think Kyrie’s defense has regressed, and he’s never been much of a playmaker. He’s, what, 30th in assists, behind our starting center? We went from 2nd in assists per possession last season to 20th now. We’ve got some real issues with playmaking, and at least some blame falls on Kyrie.
Some, but not the majority. Other than Kyrie/IT, Horford, Smart and Rozier (our PG and the three carryovers), here are the AST% of the remaining rotation guys last year and this year:
2016
Crowder 10.1%
Bradley 11.0%
Amir 13.0%
Olynyk 15.2%
2017
Tatum 7.2%
Brown 8.0%
Baynes 7.9%
Morris 8.4%
We took a few passable playmakers and one good one (KO), and swapped them out for four black holes, basically.
For all the ways Tatum has exceeded expectations this year, his ball-stopping has certainly been as advertised. Brown is pretty atrocious too. And those two have played more minutes than Horford and Irving. Tatum, Brown, Baynes and Morris are essentially incapable of creating for others, and that's 3 of our 5 starters.
Interesting. From the guys that left last year I have to say that I miss Olynyk the most. But when I see these assist percentages, I think of the criticism in another thread about what the NBA considers to be an assist. That when a player makes two dribbles the initial pass still counts as an assist.
Maybe a big part of the assists by Crowder, Bradley and Johnson was just about giving the ball back to Thomas in a situation where there was no space for them to shoot the ball. Since neither of them can create shots of the dribble. And if Thomas then created his own basket it may still often have counted as an assist.
Tatum, Brown and Morris can create their own shot. Therefore they don't always have to pass the ball when there's no space to immediately shoot. Sometimes it's favorable that they attack mismatches or drive to the basket. So I don't think their low assist percentages are necessarily a bad thing, besides I find that Tatum (and even Brown) has shown at times that he has good court vision. I definetely see some playmaking ability in him.
On the other hand I see very little in Baynes as a playmaker in the Horford-role what we sometimes see them trying. And the high correlation between quality of offense and the amount of assists shows that coaches are right to emphasize ball movement. You have to be elite or have a clear mismatch to go for the isolation-play. That's why I don't like Morris. He's good, but not elite and therefore doesn't warrant to play that way.
Tatum and Brown could develop in elite players, I don't mind that they are actively looking what their capabilities are.
Maybe it's just me, and maybe I'm just being harsh, but I never lost any sleep with Olynyk leaving.
He had a fantastic Game 7 for us (so KO left us with a bang!) and certainly could stretch the floor, but man he was such an infuriating and inconsistent player to watch. (Pump Fake 3s, getting pounded by fourth string bigs, relatively soft...) :(
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Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
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Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
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Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
"Top 10 player" can mean different things, but Nick, if you had to pick someone to win a 7 game series in the NBA Finals, this year, keeping all the other talent on the team constant, would those lists look the same?
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
"Top 10 player" can mean different things, but Nick, if you had to pick someone to win a 7 game series in the NBA Finals, this year, keeping all the other talent on the team constant, would those lists look the same?
Not sure that's possible to answer as players play different positions, so all other players being constant, really couldn't happen.
Now if you're talking just PGs or point forwards, that makes it a valid question and I am not sure. That obviously puts Kyrie into the equation because none of Westbrook, Paul, Harden and Giannis have won a title.
Hmmmmm...it's tough but yeah, I would still probably take those other guys. But its ridiculously close. Not 100% sure to be completely honest.
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
"Top 10 player" can mean different things, but Nick, if you had to pick someone to win a 7 game series in the NBA Finals, this year, keeping all the other talent on the team constant, would those lists look the same?
I think they would look pretty similar and if there were changes, it wouldn't be to move Irving up. I think people forget how inconsistent he is. Yeah he hit that huge shot in game 7 and had that monster game 5, but he had some real clunkers in that series (the first 2 games he was downright terrible). And that is pretty standard for Irving. Some epic games and performances, sprinkled in with clunkers where you wonder where he is. He is better than Rondo, but I think they are very similar in that regard, in that they can have absolutely awesome games, which people remember for years, but they have a lot more stinkers than many of the other greats, and nobody remembers those.
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Because Embiid is this generations AC Green.
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health. Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health. Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health. Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
I get he missed 2 years, but for this purpose this seems like a bit of a stretch. Not saying 75 games in 1+ years is anything to write home about, but the most recent seasons do seem to be more critical. That said, Embiid has played in just 44 games this year. Cousins will finish at 48 and Davis has played in 51, so Embiid still lags behind.
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health. Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
Embiid has played nearly 80 games and hasn't had any problems with his foot so far. I think wondering about Cousin's future considering the recovery history of Achilles injuries should be weighted more than Embiid's injury history. Don't see how he's top 10 or ahead of Embiid.
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health. Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
Embiid has played nearly 80 games and hasn't had any problems with his foot so far. I think wondering about Cousin's future considering the recovery history of Achilles injuries should be weighted more than Embiid's injury history. Don't see how he's top 10 or ahead of Embiid.
Even if you move Cousins out, I would still have George and Butler as better players and one of them would be put in.
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health. Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
Embiid has played nearly 80 games and hasn't had any problems with his foot so far. I think wondering about Cousin's future considering the recovery history of Achilles injuries should be weighted more than Embiid's injury history. Don't see how he's top 10 or ahead of Embiid.
Even if you move Cousins out, I would still have George and Butler as better players and one of them would be put in.
Jimmy Butler's better than Kyrie? I'm not so sure. I'd say they're pretty comparable, besides the fact that one hit a clinching shot for a championship, and the other didn't.
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health. Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
Embiid has played nearly 80 games and hasn't had any problems with his foot so far. I think wondering about Cousin's future considering the recovery history of Achilles injuries should be weighted more than Embiid's injury history. Don't see how he's top 10 or ahead of Embiid.
Even if you move Cousins out, I would still have George and Butler as better players and one of them would be put in.
Jimmy Butler's better than Kyrie? I'm not so sure. I'd say they're pretty comparable, besides the fact that one hit a clinching shot for a championship, and the other didn't.
Are you really going to let ONE shot determine who’s better? That’s crazy. Even if you want to take into consideration Kyrie’s clutchness (Which you should), he’s not clutch because of that one shot. He’s clutch because he can do that time and time again. Plus you’re comparing him to Jimmy Butler, who’s a very good closer himself.
Anyways, I think Butler is the better player (Mostly due to wayyy better defense), but just don’t decide who’s better overall based on one shot in their careers.
-
So Bleacher Report posted their Top-10 individual players this season based on METRICS.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2759869-nba-metrics-101-top-10-individual-seasons-so-far
1. James Harden
2. Lebron James
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Greek Freak
5. K.A. Towns
6. Jimmy Butler
7. Anthony Davis
8. Stephen Curry
9. Damian Lillard
10. Kevin Durant
Guys like Oladipo, Kyrie, Drummond, etc. are honorable mentions.
Umm, okay I get this is metrics and also looking at impact they have on the teams they play for, but this list still looks awful. ???
-
So Bleacher Report posted their Top-10 individual players this season based on METRICS.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2759869-nba-metrics-101-top-10-individual-seasons-so-far
1. James Harden
2. Lebron James
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Greek Freak
5. K.A. Towns
6. Jimmy Butler
7. Anthony Davis
8. Stephen Curry
9. Damian Lillard
10. Kevin Durant
Guys like Oladipo, Kyrie, Drummond, etc. are honorable mentions.
Umm, okay I get this is metrics and also looking at impact they have on the teams they play for, but this list still looks awful. ???
That is a truly awful lost. KAT 5 spots ahead of KD is hilarious. Bleacher Report being B/R again
-
So Bleacher Report posted their Top-10 individual players this season based on METRICS.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2759869-nba-metrics-101-top-10-individual-seasons-so-far
1. James Harden
2. Lebron James
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Greek Freak
5. K.A. Towns
6. Jimmy Butler
7. Anthony Davis
8. Stephen Curry
9. Damian Lillard
10. Kevin Durant
Guys like Oladipo, Kyrie, Drummond, etc. are honorable mentions.
Umm, okay I get this is metrics and also looking at impact they have on the teams they play for, but this list still looks awful. ???
That is a truly awful lost. KAT 5 spots ahead of KD is hilarious. Bleacher Report being B/R again
The fact that Butler is above Curry, Davis, KD.. and the fact that Westbrook, while he is a superstar, is above KD, Davis among others.... take it away Stephen A!
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/b38081c6a7c2ee7b3b51265487ae804d/tenor.gif?itemid=4816522)
-
So Bleacher Report posted their Top-10 individual players this season based on METRICS.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2759869-nba-metrics-101-top-10-individual-seasons-so-far
1. James Harden
2. Lebron James
3. Russell Westbrook
4. Greek Freak
5. K.A. Towns
6. Jimmy Butler
7. Anthony Davis
8. Stephen Curry
9. Damian Lillard
10. Kevin Durant
Guys like Oladipo, Kyrie, Drummond, etc. are honorable mentions.
Umm, okay I get this is metrics and also looking at impact they have on the teams they play for, but this list still looks awful. ???
It uses two metrics that are either outright bad (RPM) or suspect (PER, which has been discussed ad nauseam, and tends to over-value PFs and Cs).
The other two are Win Shares, which is in the "not insane" category, and something called TPA (Total Points Added), which I've never heard of.
But overall the idea of a "meta-metric" is a good one, in the sense that it uses more available information from a number of different, but flawed in different ways, metrics.
Kyrie is 14th.
I think if there's a flaw in that list, it's that Durant and Curry are a bit under-valued, but metrics will do that because they evaluate how those guys are contributing given the talent around them - put either of those guys on lesser teams and they would be metrics monsters. And it therefore elevates guys like Westbrook and Giannis because they are more in the solo-act category.
I don't see any other obvious flaws, I mean, a lot of this is debatable past a point...what bothers you about the list?
Except for maybe the T-Wolves guys. But to be honest, how many of us have watched a lot of T-Wolves games. They get no attention. I would be open to the possibility that KAT is that good, or thereabouts, but hasn't gotten the attention he deserves.
-
Except for maybe the T-Wolves guys. But to be honest, how many of us have watched a lot of T-Wolves games. They get no attention. I would be open to the possibility that KAT is that good, or thereabouts, but hasn't gotten the attention he deserves.
I don’t watch the Twolves much either, but it’s hard to imagine they’ve got two top-6 players. Plus, they’ve got a guy who scored 24 ppg last year, the 12th-ranked player in RPM (lol) and some solid role players. Shouldn’t they be more of a threat?
I’m skeptical of averaging various metrics. Garbage results from one can lead to illegitimate results.
-
The only problem I have is Lillard and Towns being in the top 10. The order is kinda ridiculous but the other 8 players are definitely top 10 players.
-
Except for maybe the T-Wolves guys. But to be honest, how many of us have watched a lot of T-Wolves games. They get no attention. I would be open to the possibility that KAT is that good, or thereabouts, but hasn't gotten the attention he deserves.
I don’t watch the Twolves much either, but it’s hard to imagine they’ve got two top-6 players. Plus, they’ve got a guy who scored 24 ppg last year, the 12th-ranked player in RPM (lol) and some solid role players. Shouldn’t they be more of a threat?
I’m skeptical of averaging various metrics. Garbage results from one can lead to illegitimate results.
Metrics aside, Towns is putting up monster numbers. He's shooting less but he's shooting 59% from 2, 42%(!) from 3 and 86% from the line. His TS% is 65%.
And he's averaging 12 rpg, 2.5 apg, decent steals and blocks while being a decent defender.
I had no idea about the 3 point shooting until I looked it up. His shooting efficiency is crazy good.
As far as being a threat, OK. But for some reason they are letting Andrew Wiggins, who is shooting 44/32/63 and is a marginal defender at best, play like a #1C option instead of a #3 option. That might explain some of it.
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health. Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
Embiid has played nearly 80 games and hasn't had any problems with his foot so far. I think wondering about Cousin's future considering the recovery history of Achilles injuries should be weighted more than Embiid's injury history. Don't see how he's top 10 or ahead of Embiid.
Even if you move Cousins out, I would still have George and Butler as better players and one of them would be put in.
Jimmy Butler's better than Kyrie? I'm not so sure. I'd say they're pretty comparable, besides the fact that one hit a clinching shot for a championship, and the other didn't.
Are you really going to let ONE shot determine who’s better? That’s crazy. Even if you want to take into consideration Kyrie’s clutchness (Which you should), he’s not clutch because of that one shot. He’s clutch because he can do that time and time again. Plus you’re comparing him to Jimmy Butler, who’s a very good closer himself.
Anyways, I think Butler is the better player (Mostly due to wayyy better defense), but just don’t decide who’s better overall based on one shot in their careers.
Would you trade Irving for Butler in a vacuum? I wouldn't.
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health. Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
Embiid has played nearly 80 games and hasn't had any problems with his foot so far. I think wondering about Cousin's future considering the recovery history of Achilles injuries should be weighted more than Embiid's injury history. Don't see how he's top 10 or ahead of Embiid.
Even if you move Cousins out, I would still have George and Butler as better players and one of them would be put in.
Jimmy Butler's better than Kyrie? I'm not so sure. I'd say they're pretty comparable, besides the fact that one hit a clinching shot for a championship, and the other didn't.
Are you really going to let ONE shot determine who’s better? That’s crazy. Even if you want to take into consideration Kyrie’s clutchness (Which you should), he’s not clutch because of that one shot. He’s clutch because he can do that time and time again. Plus you’re comparing him to Jimmy Butler, who’s a very good closer himself.
Anyways, I think Butler is the better player (Mostly due to wayyy better defense), but just don’t decide who’s better overall based on one shot in their careers.
Would you trade Irving for Butler in a vacuum? I wouldn't.
I would, but that’s not the point. The point is that you shouldn’t decide that based on one shot. You still don’t get that part.
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health. Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
Embiid has played nearly 80 games and hasn't had any problems with his foot so far. I think wondering about Cousin's future considering the recovery history of Achilles injuries should be weighted more than Embiid's injury history. Don't see how he's top 10 or ahead of Embiid.
Even if you move Cousins out, I would still have George and Butler as better players and one of them would be put in.
Jimmy Butler's better than Kyrie? I'm not so sure. I'd say they're pretty comparable, besides the fact that one hit a clinching shot for a championship, and the other didn't.
Are you really going to let ONE shot determine who’s better? That’s crazy. Even if you want to take into consideration Kyrie’s clutchness (Which you should), he’s not clutch because of that one shot. He’s clutch because he can do that time and time again. Plus you’re comparing him to Jimmy Butler, who’s a very good closer himself.
Anyways, I think Butler is the better player (Mostly due to wayyy better defense), but just don’t decide who’s better overall based on one shot in their careers.
Would you trade Irving for Butler in a vacuum? I wouldn't.
It is funny, because we spent all those years hoping we'd get Cousins, or George, or Butler, etc. etc., and then out of nowhere and completely unexpected, we trade for Irving instead :P :laugh:
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health. Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
Embiid has played nearly 80 games and hasn't had any problems with his foot so far. I think wondering about Cousin's future considering the recovery history of Achilles injuries should be weighted more than Embiid's injury history. Don't see how he's top 10 or ahead of Embiid.
Even if you move Cousins out, I would still have George and Butler as better players and one of them would be put in.
Jimmy Butler's better than Kyrie? I'm not so sure. I'd say they're pretty comparable, besides the fact that one hit a clinching shot for a championship, and the other didn't.
Are you really going to let ONE shot determine who’s better? That’s crazy. Even if you want to take into consideration Kyrie’s clutchness (Which you should), he’s not clutch because of that one shot. He’s clutch because he can do that time and time again. Plus you’re comparing him to Jimmy Butler, who’s a very good closer himself.
Anyways, I think Butler is the better player (Mostly due to wayyy better defense), but just don’t decide who’s better overall based on one shot in their careers.
Would you trade Irving for Butler in a vacuum? I wouldn't.
It is funny, because we spent all those years hoping we'd get Cousins, or George, or Butler, etc. etc., and then out of nowhere and completely unexpected, we trade for Irving instead :P :laugh:
Can you imagine if we had added George + Hayward last year and pulled off the trade for Kyrie. WOW. Too bad IND were impatient and traded with OKC well before FA (though obviously it's worked out fantastic for IND as well with Oladipo, and even Sabonis has been very solid for them).
Though I do acknowledge it was risky for Ainge to trade for a rental and IND was likely asking a lot from us. Plus, it may have taken 1-2 assets out of the picture that was used in the Kyrie trade. So hindsight is 20/20 now.
-
Lebron
Durant
Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Davis
Giannis
Leonard
Paul
Cousins
Those in no particular order are your top ten players. I think Kyrie is definitely in the next group of 5-10 players.
George
Butler
Kyrie
Lillard
Towns
Embiid
Love
Wall
Porzingas
Griffin
All in no particular order
TP. That's similar to my list. I think if Embiid stays healthy, he could sneak into the Top-10 by the end of the year, or surely by next year.
I think Embiid is already top 10. He's arguably the best big man in the game or at worst a close second to AD. Definitely ahead of Cousins. Cousins has his achilles injury and AD has his own injury history.
Ummmmm...Embiid doesn't have an injury history?
I made that comment because the previous poster referenced Embiid's health. Shouldn't hold Embiid's injury history against him without doing so for Cousins and AD too.
Except Embiid has only played 75 games in 3.67 seasons. I think wondering about Embiids history as compared to other players is neccessary. Yes, he has the skills to be top 10 but until he can prove he can play a whole year without being babied through it, I don't think he deserves to be there.
Embiid has played nearly 80 games and hasn't had any problems with his foot so far. I think wondering about Cousin's future considering the recovery history of Achilles injuries should be weighted more than Embiid's injury history. Don't see how he's top 10 or ahead of Embiid.
Even if you move Cousins out, I would still have George and Butler as better players and one of them would be put in.
Jimmy Butler's better than Kyrie? I'm not so sure. I'd say they're pretty comparable, besides the fact that one hit a clinching shot for a championship, and the other didn't.
Are you really going to let ONE shot determine who’s better? That’s crazy. Even if you want to take into consideration Kyrie’s clutchness (Which you should), he’s not clutch because of that one shot. He’s clutch because he can do that time and time again. Plus you’re comparing him to Jimmy Butler, who’s a very good closer himself.
Anyways, I think Butler is the better player (Mostly due to wayyy better defense), but just don’t decide who’s better overall based on one shot in their careers.
Would you trade Irving for Butler in a vacuum? I wouldn't.
It is funny, because we spent all those years hoping we'd get Cousins, or George, or Butler, etc. etc., and then out of nowhere and completely unexpected, we trade for Irving instead :P :laugh:
Can you imagine if we had added George + Hayward last year and pulled off the trade for Kyrie. WOW. Too bad IND were impatient and traded with OKC well before FA (though obviously it's worked out fantastic for IND as well with Oladipo, and even Sabonis has been very solid for them).
Though I do acknowledge it was risky for Ainge to trade for a rental and IND was likely asking a lot from us. Plus, it may have taken 1-2 assets out of the picture that was used in the Kyrie trade. So hindsight is 20/20 now.
I take Kyrie over George any day personally... But I don't see an issue with George resigning with us if traded. He spoke highly about how he always wanted to play with Hayward.
Paul George called this “one of the most frustrating seasons I’ve been a part of.” He bemoaned the Pacers’ place as “the little brother of the league.” He pushed back against Indiana fans booing their own team. He expressed frustration about being kept in the dark on trade discussions before the deadline. Just last week, he told Zach Lowe of ESPN the Pacers lack an identity.
This all ought to strike fear into the Pacers, with George headed toward free agency in 2018 and Lakers rumors swirling.
How does Indiana convince George to stay?
One possibility: Signing Jazz forward Gordon Hayward, who has a player option after this season.
Lowe:
George would love to play with hometown boy Gordon Hayward, according to sources