CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: diconzo on February 03, 2013, 02:01:20 PM
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https://twitter.com/SeanDeveney/status/298127958336479232 (https://twitter.com/SeanDeveney/status/298127958336479232)
According to Sean Deveney on twitter, The Clippers have inquired about KG for Butler & Bledsoe.
Butler doesn't seem attractive to me, would rather have Odom (expiring) & Bledsoe. Also, not sure how this rumor got started, but Bledsoe isn't a FA after this season. Not only is he under contract for next season, he's a RFA with a QO in the 2014 offseason. Thoughts on this rumor?
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They can inquire all they want, particularly while we are giving them a beatdown.
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I can't wait til the deadline.
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They won't get nothing
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got to admit I'm not enthusiastic about a trade with the Clips. don't find enough value in Bledsoe and/or Jordan to make it worth moving KG even if KG only has 2 more years left.
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I'd have to think a Jordan/Bledsoe package would be more enticing for KG, and if we were blowing it up, we could do worse from a value standpoint, but the problem with Bledsoe being the top piece we get back in a trade is that our only current building block for the future is Rondo, and Rondo/Bledsoe wouldn't work together.
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Makes sense. KG and Griffin really compliment one another.
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how many guards do the celtics need??
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how many guards do the celtics need??
We can play 5 guards at a time in Doc's mind probably. Now that would be some serious small ball.
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DeAndre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe for KG works on the trade machine. Jordan has 3 years and Bledsoe has 2..
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how many guards do the celtics need??
At that point it's about prospects and assets. Acquire a few more and try to flip them for established talented players like in 2008. I guess a lot of that depends on Rondo's recovery because he would be the Pierce in the equation.
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DeAndre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe for KG works on the trade machine. Jordan has 3 years and Bledsoe has 2..
Pretty much the only way I'd consider doing a deal with LAC
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no, just simply no
I really really really really want to see KG and Pierce retire in green
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Ask KG if he wants to go to a contender or if he wants to stay, and just have him decide.
(I take it he'd want to stay)
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I don't trade KG.
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how many guards do the celtics need??
We can play 5 guards at a time in Doc's mind probably. Now that would be some serious small ball.
All st the same time, too!
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KG does lives in LA...only way i trade him if he ask for one. And Jordan & Bledsoe is only deal i would do. Dont want Butler or Odom
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I don't have a lot of interest in DeAndre Jordan. Mediocre production for that contract, and I don't really see him as a building block player.
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Just to end the speculation for Jordan once and for all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-cWVYxpUWM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-cWVYxpUWM)
They aren't trading their superstar's best friend.
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Just to end the speculation for Jordan once and for all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-cWVYxpUWM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-cWVYxpUWM)
They aren't trading their superstar's best friend.
I don't know. Durant was pretty close with both Harden and Green.
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I just don't see the point of trading KG or PP unless we get a building block quality player in return. If not, all we're getting is overpaid role players.
And I don't see anyone giving us such players.
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thats nice
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https://twitter.com/SeanDeveney/status/298127958336479232 (https://twitter.com/SeanDeveney/status/298127958336479232)
According to Sean Deveney on twitter, The Clippers have inquired about KG for Butler & Bledsoe.
Butler doesn't seem attractive to me, would rather have Odom (expiring) & Bledsoe. Also, not sure how this rumor got started, but Bledsoe isn't a FA after this season. Not only is he under contract for next season, he's a RFA with a QO in the 2014 offseason. Thoughts on this rumor?
I'd do it.
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Only if KG wants out and a third team gets involved.
Only player Id really want from the clips are CP3(and thats iffy with his injuries) and Bledsoe.
Jordan would only be good on a team like the Clips were he doesn't have to be the man, of for lottery pics...
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I don't have a lot of interest in DeAndre Jordan. Mediocre production for that contract, and I don't really see him as a building block player.
I tend to agree. If he weren't such a terrible free throw shooter he'd be a lot more valuable. But it's hard to pay $10 for a player who can't be in the game in the last 5 minutes and is limited to like 20-25 minutes a night.
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No thanks.
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Bledsoe looking pretty good right now.
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make it so. let the reconstruction begin.
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If we are to do something like this we would need to get a big back in another deal we made.
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At this point they've enquired.
Doc and Danny will now go to KG and probably Pierce and see where their minds are at.
I can't see KG leaving because it's up to him.
Pierce seems more likely but even then it's tough.
Get Eric now and move him or Rondo next season as part of a package for a top 10 player or top 5 SF.
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I think we've got the leverage. Danny isn't trading for today, so it's only 1 of many possible ways to approach the future. If Clips think KG is the 'ticket' to a championship (which they should), then Danny is in the driver's seat.
Jordan, Bledsoe and Odom (exp) for KG, Bass and Wilcox.
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Bledsoe looking pretty good right now.
Bledsoe is an excellent player, but what would we do with him? He's a FA at the end of this season. Either we pay him and trade Rondo or we would rent him for the rest of this season at the cost of KG, which basically means our season would be completely done because we are the worst team in the league when KG sits.
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Get Eric now and move him or Rondo next season as part of a package for a top 10 player or top 5 SF.
LeBron. KD, and Melo are going no where. We already have Pierce and Gay just got traded.
I doubt you can move Bledsoe or Rondo coming off knee surgery for a top 10 guy next season.
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No thanks.
I'm not sold on the Bledsoe hype. He doesn't do it for me. Say we trade KG. I feel that Bledsoe is just a mediocre fill in that becomes just a trade asset for us in the offseason.
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Eric Bledsoe is a backup Pg in this leauge. He is not that great if we got that package for KG i would throw up.
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Butler is a ditry punk and an average starter in this league. Bledsoe is a good young player but he's at the backup PG level now.
None of them or even both of them are worth even half KG is worth. Not even if they put Jordan in the deal.
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Why are the clippers after KG instead of Pierce? They already have Griffin and Jordan, along with Odom. They need a SF much more imo.
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Butler is a ditry punk and an average starter in this league. Bledsoe is a good young player but he's at the backup PG level now.
None of them or even both of them are worth even half KG is worth. Not even if they put Jordan in the deal.
No he's not. He put up an all-star type stat line starting today. It's not the first time he's done it either. The only reason he's not a full time starter yet is that he's on the same team with CP3.
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hell no..I'd rather take my chances win or lose with kg with the package they're offering....give us Blake Griffin or go away...so in other words not happening
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Just to make sure I'm clear on this, I thought the package was for Butler and Bledsoe, not Jordan and Bledsoe. Not sure where all this Jordan talk is coming from. Someone clue me in if I missed something. That said Butler is an underrated offensive player who going into next year will be on a "pay for play" expiring deal and Bledsoe is an excellent backup pg with an great defensive pedigree. Would love to see him and Bradley in the backcourt. He pretty much killed us today I know that. I'm not saying I'm ready to move KG but that's a haul I could definitely live with.
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I'd certainly do Jordan and Bledsoe for KG. That would be a great deal for the celtics.
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forget this....maybe we would do better them trading us Blake griffin........let them blow it up
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I think it's up to KG. If he wants to move on, Bledsoe looks like a solid return
He looks like he's relishing this Last Stand.
We can wait until the deadline. No reason for either team to do it before
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If Bledsoe was our trade chip, I do think we could use him to trade up into Nerlens Noel territory
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I would be shocked if KG went along with this ... he is more into what being a celtic is all about, (Celtic Pride, fans, Bill Russell, tradition, etc.), than almost anyone who has played since the Bird era.
I would also seriously consider not watching anymore.
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Bledsoe and Jordan for KG is fair, Danny should only accept that. We can't trade KG without getting a big man, so butler doesn't make sense!
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how many guards do the celtics need??
At that point it's about prospects and assets. Acquire a few more and try to flip them for established talented players like in 2008. I guess a lot of that depends on Rondo's recovery because he would be the Pierce in the equation.
And also would depend on KG's plans after this year.
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Just to make sure I'm clear on this, I thought the package was for Butler and Bledsoe, not Jordan and Bledsoe. Not sure where all this Jordan talk is coming from. Someone clue me in if I missed something. That said Butler is an underrated offensive player who going into next year will be on a "pay for play" expiring deal and Bledsoe is an excellent backup pg with an great defensive pedigree. Would love to see him and Bradley in the backcourt. He pretty much killed us today I know that. I'm not saying I'm ready to move KG but that's a haul I could definitely live with.
Not sure where anyone else's Jordan talk came from, but mine came from the perspective of counter offering something that would be much more appealing to the C's. In the interest of negotiation, ask for something that gauge's the level of desire the Clips have for KG.
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I think it's up to KG. If he wants to move on, Bledsoe looks like a solid return
Yeah, this is my thinking on this.
If it is pretty clear that KG is going to retire, after one more shot at a ring, then he arguably has a better shot at the ring in LA, so he might want to go. And I'd prefer that we get some asset back for KG, rather than have him retire over the summer and we get nothing.
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The jury is still out on how good Bledsoe will be but we don't need both he and Rondo. And Jordan doesn't do anything for me. Even if he could shoot free throws, he still has no offensive skill. Someone like Birdman comes close to Jordan's production at a fraction of the cost and contract length.
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The jury is still out on how good Bledsoe will be but we don't need both he and Rondo. And Jordan doesn't do anything for me. Even if he could shoot free throws, he still has no offensive skill. Someone like Birdman comes close to Jordan's production at a fraction of the cost and contract length.
You may be correct in terms of present-day production (maybe), but the future value of Jordan FAR exceeds Birdman.
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Let's see how bad Clips want to win this year and give CP3 incentive to stay.
I'd do Bledsoe (23), Jordan (24), Tompkins (22) and their #1 for KG and Collins. We get youth and lots of upside.
Tough to compete on the same level this year. Great assets for the future.
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I think Bledsoe would be a very good Rondo replacement. I'd trade an injured Rondo for Bledsoe, Butler and a pick...*they* wouldn't. OTOH, I wouldn't trade KG for that if I were the C's...*they*, very likely would. So, I think it'll be a no deal.
Here's the thing, Danny has got to decide to go one way or the other. He doesn't have the luxury of playing it down the middle now that Rondo and Sully are done for the year.
If the C's can get a big man who can give what Sullinger was giving without giving up anybody important, and Danny thinks the guards can "hold down the fort", then I say, keep everyone and go for it! Even if he can get somebody that could give the C's what a healthy Wilcox would I'd go for it. As an aside, I hate Odom, but would fit in the C's rotation nicely.
If it turns out that he can't get that big man and/or doesn't think the guards he has will do, then he might as well start the rebuild now. However, that doesn't mean trade what assets the C's have in mediocre trades. If Danny is trading assets, he is going to want (1) high lottery picks, (2) young players with breakout potential and (3) large expiring contracts. As it turns out, teams with (1) wouldn't trade for our assets and would you send KG/Pierce to Chr, Wash, Cle, Orl, or NO anyway? Teams with (2) won't give them up in fair deals for our guys...Bledsoe and Butler for KG, please! I doubt he "blows it up" at the trade deadline. Rather I suspect what we'll see is a slow-motion explosion that starts next summer and continues through 2014.
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Let's see how bad Clips want to win this year and give CP3 incentive to stay.
I'd do Bledsoe (23), Jordan (24), Tompkins (22) and their #1 for KG and Collins. We get youth and lots of upside.
Tough to compete on the same level this year. Great assets for the future.
As much as I love KG I'd do that trade instantly... not sure if the Clips would though
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If we do the Bledsoe, Butler or Odom, 1st for Garnett, that says we are clearly going into rebuilding, so we would likely then move Pierce. I was thinking of deals that would make sense for Pierce and came up with these
Pierce for Landry, Tyler, Biedrins or Jefferson
Pierce for Jackson, Blair, and Green or Jackson, Leonard, and Bonner
I think the C's should also consider moving Rondo as well. I think this trade would work for both teams
Rondo for Williams, Jenkins, Morrow, 2013 Rockets 1st, 2014 Atlanta 1st
That would be a total rebuild, giving Boston 3 firsts this year, 2 firsts next year, and a bunch of young players signed to various lengths.
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Just to make sure I'm clear on this, I thought the package was for Butler and Bledsoe, not Jordan and Bledsoe. Not sure where all this Jordan talk is coming from. Someone clue me in if I missed something. That said Butler is an underrated offensive player who going into next year will be on a "pay for play" expiring deal and Bledsoe is an excellent backup pg with an great defensive pedigree. Would love to see him and Bradley in the backcourt. He pretty much killed us today I know that. I'm not saying I'm ready to move KG but that's a haul I could definitely live with.
Not sure where anyone else's Jordan talk came from, but mine came from the perspective of counter offering something that would be much more appealing to the C's. In the interest of negotiation, ask for something that gauge's the level of desire the Clips have for KG.
I threw it out there early in the thread as an example of who the Clips could offer and still not make an appealing deal.
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Bledsoe and Butler, really? That offer is just comical.
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Why are the clippers after KG instead of Pierce? They already have Griffin and Jordan, along with Odom. They need a SF much more imo.
It seems like Denver and the clips should be looking at pierce as the final piece to a potential championship puzzle; however, I can't think of any real contender that wouldn't be a much better team if they had KG.
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If a deal for KG actually gets some real traction, I think CP3 could convince KG to wave his no trade clause. CP3 seems to extremely gifted at persuading players to come play with him on the clips with the hopes of a championship
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KG with the Clippers are a top 3 team
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Heart says no brain says yet. Danny is paid to used his brain. If kg is for it then pull the trigger. Start bledsoe for the rest of the year. Then this offseason make the call Bledsoe or rondo as the future pg. then trade accordingly.
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Bledsoe would almost certainly mean Rondo gets moved for best offer. But Bulter creates even more traffic at the 3 spot where you already don't have enough minutes for Pierce and Green. I just don't see this deal going through, unless the C's also plan to move Pierce (or Green).
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I don't want Butler. Average 32-year-old SF's aren't what I think of as good assets going forward.
I would ask for Jordan and Bledsoe or I wouldn't do it. Neither are building blocks, but both are positive assets that you could trade for something bigger in a four-quarters-for-a-dollar kind of deal. That's how we're going to get elite players in Boston, because we don't pick early enough in the draft to take one there and we've seen time and time again that Boston isn't an attractive destination for elite free agents. Stockpiling assets for future blockbuster deals is the way to go.
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I proposed a trade a couple days ago where we send BOTH KG and Pierce to the Clips. I think Pierce would love to play in his hometown LA, especially for a chance at another championship. KG would be more likely to waive his no-trade clause if he follows Pierce to what would be the #1 contender in the West.
Boston Trades:
Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnet
Jason Terry
Chris Wilcox
LAC Trades:
DeAndre Jordan
Caron Butler
Lamar Odom
Eric Bledsoe
Chauncey Billups
Pretty obvious why both teams would do this. Boston instantly starts the rebuild with some great assets in Jordan/Bledsoe. Butler/Green is formidable at SF. Boston also saves about 14 million on their cap for next season with Odom/Billups expirings plus the $$$ difference in the deal. This allows for the team to be a legit player in FA to go after a solid PF.
The Clippers are trading a lot of players, but it is essentially a 4 for 4 swap b/c Billups being in the deal.
KG >>> Jordan
Pierce >>> Butler
Terry can fill in for much of Bledsoes production in their rotation. Wilcox can play backup minutes.
LAC has the starting lineup of:
CP3
Terry or Crawford
PP
Griffin
KG
might as well hand them a ring......it would be a hard deal for them to turn down, IMO.
Next year, the Celtics look like this before FA:
Rondo/Bledsoe
Bradley/Lee
Green or Butler
Sullinger/Bass
Jordan/Melo
There are a ton of solid players who won't command huge salaries to fill around this young, talented core. This trade would also likely cause us to net a pick somewhere in the 9-13 range as well.
We would be set at PG minutes between Rondo/Bledsoe/Bradley
SG is pretty solid with Bradley/Lee.....could maybe grab a bigger SG in FA like Martell Webster, or a shooter like Kyle Korver
SF is pretty set between Jeff Green and Butler
PF is solid with Sully/Bass although I think this is where the C's could look to add depth with a scoring big-man. Al Jefferson anyone? Keep in mind, there should be around 15-million in cap space to use on the roster, thanks to the trade.
Center looks good with Jordan/Melo, and signing Big-Al would shore up the bigs rotation.
FA's besides Al Jefferson (who won't make as much as he is currently) that come to mind for this type of rotation would be:
Josh Smith (likely out of price range, although maybe he takes a discount to play with Rondo....doubt it though)
Larry Sanders (Great rebounder/defender)
Elton Brand (depth big who can still get some buckets)
Chase Buddinger (solid scorer/shooter) to rotate between SG/SF
Martell Webster (scores in bunches, good bench player)
Kyle Korver (great shooting off the bench who can spot start)
Tyreke Evans.....down season, so maybe we can get him at a lower rate. Listed at 6'6 (likely 6'5/6'4), but can play both PG/SG, and even a little SF if we were to run a small lineup for stretches of a game.
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So what? Every good team should do this and Ainge should listen to any offer. That's how things are done this time of year. Why is this a headline? Wow Deveney really foes out on a limb here.
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If your gonna move Garnett you mine as well do this trade.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bajgpdd (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bajgpdd)
Pierce probably only would want to go back to LA to play. He gets to move with KG and together make one last finals run. In return we get Bledsoe and Jordan, Butler to come off the bench for two years at half of Pierce's salary, an Odom's expiring.
In the summer we use Bledsoe, Bradley, Terry's contract and maybe Bass as trade bait along with our other assets to try and nab a big number one fish in the power forward department. Smith? Milsap? Jefferson?
Rondo/Barbosa
Lee/FA
Green/Butler
Jefferson/Sully
Jordan/Melo
A decent attempt at a future and some cap room?
I dont do it, I hate it actually. but if Ainge pulls the trigger I could see this making sense.
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If your gonna move Garnett you mine as well do this trade.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bajgpdd (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bajgpdd)
Pierce probably only would want to go back to LA to play. He gets to move with KG and together make one last finals run. In return we get Bledsoe and Jordan, Butler to come off the bench for two years at half of Pierce's salary, an Odom's expiring.
In the summer we use Bledsoe, Bradley, Terry's contract and maybe Bass as trade bait along with our other assets to try and nab a big number one fish in the power forward department. Smith? Milsap? Jefferson?
Rondo/Barbosa
Lee/FA
Green/Butler
Jefferson/Sully
Jordan/Melo
A decent attempt at a future and some cap room?
I dont do it, I hate it actually. but if Ainge pulls the trigger I could see this making sense.
Great minds think alike. I think we could throw in Bass or Terry for Billups swap, and clear another 5/6 million in cap.
Out with the old, in with the new. It's gotta happen now, if the team wants to gain any kind of assets in the process. I suppose we could sit and wait for KG and Pierce contracts to expire. Maybe they both retire at the end of the year? But even if that's the case, wouldn't they rather go out playing in the finals with LAC, over getting spanked by the Heat as an 8-seed?
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Why would we trade Rondo when his value is at an all time low?
If anything you would let Bledsoe start the rest of the year and see if he is going to be a star while raising his trade value for the offseason
I would do
Bos sends: KG ,Bass +Terry
LAC sends: Jordan, Odom(expiring) and Bledsoe
PG: Bledsoe / Barbosa
SG: Bradley / Lee
SF: PP / Green
PF: Odom / Wilcox
C: Jordan /Collins
You shed a bunch of long term salary in a trade like this, while picking up young assets in Bledsoe and Jordan.
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Bledsoe/Butler/Jordan are all very good players, but don't necessarily put LAC over the top like bringing in KG/PP/Terry who are all vets with championship experience. The eight man rotation of KG/Griffin/PP/Terry/CP3/Crawford/Barnes/Turiaf is tough for them to pass up.
CP3 is also in a contract year. What better way to keep him, than getting him pieces to absolutely send them to the finals, and likely win it?
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Like Bledsoe till Rondo is 100%
DeAndre Jordan and Butler would also help a little with the transition. Need Billups to make the numbers work; but also would like to see him in green again before he retires.
Have to say if you are going to trade the Captain you would have to do it for something like this where he would be back home and would have one more shot at a title.
With Pierce and KG Clips could make a real run for a title. Without them I don't think they can even make it to the finals.
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Bledsoe looking pretty good right now.
Bledsoe is an excellent player, but what would we do with him? He's a FA at the end of this season. Either we pay him and trade Rondo or we would rent him for the rest of this season at the cost of KG, which basically means our season would be completely done because we are the worst team in the league when KG sits.
Bledsoe is under contract next season. Not sure how everyone came to the conclusion that hes an expiring, but hes not.
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Bledsoe looking pretty good right now.
Bledsoe is an excellent player, but what would we do with him? He's a FA at the end of this season. Either we pay him and trade Rondo or we would rent him for the rest of this season at the cost of KG, which basically means our season would be completely done because we are the worst team in the league when KG sits.
Bledsoe is under contract next season. Not sure how everyone came to the conclusion that hes an expiring, but hes not.
ESPN trade machine had him as an expiring until a day or so ago.
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Bledsoe looking pretty good right now.
Bledsoe is an excellent player, but what would we do with him? He's a FA at the end of this season. Either we pay him and trade Rondo or we would rent him for the rest of this season at the cost of KG, which basically means our season would be completely done because we are the worst team in the league when KG sits.
Bledsoe is under contract next season. Not sure how everyone came to the conclusion that hes an expiring, but hes not.
ESPN trade machine had him as an expiring until a day or so ago.
yea, the trade machine screwed me up I guess
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Bledsoe looking pretty good right now.
Bledsoe is an excellent player, but what would we do with him? He's a FA at the end of this season. Either we pay him and trade Rondo or we would rent him for the rest of this season at the cost of KG, which basically means our season would be completely done because we are the worst team in the league when KG sits.
Bledsoe is under contract next season. Not sure how everyone came to the conclusion that hes an expiring, but hes not.
ESPN trade machine had him as an expiring until a day or so ago.
TP, thanks for clearing it up for me. Wasn't blaming anyone, just confused as how he was thought of as an expiring around the site. Fun fact; Bledsoe was taken one pick before Bradley!
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Bledsoe looking pretty good right now.
Bledsoe is an excellent player, but what would we do with him? He's a FA at the end of this season. Either we pay him and trade Rondo or we would rent him for the rest of this season at the cost of KG, which basically means our season would be completely done because we are the worst team in the league when KG sits.
Bledsoe is under contract next season. Not sure how everyone came to the conclusion that hes an expiring, but hes not.
ESPN trade machine had him as an expiring until a day or so ago.
TP, thanks for clearing it up for me. Wasn't blaming anyone, just confused as how he was thought of as an expiring around the site. Fun fact; Bledsoe was taken one pick before Bradley!
Him and Bradley would make an impressive backcourt duo
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I don't want Butler. Average 32-year-old SF's aren't what I think of as good assets going forward.
A realistic "blow it up" trade will often require taking back a player like Butler as trade ballast. In theory, he could have trade value as an expiring contract next season.
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Would not mind Bledsoe. Just not sure you want Odom. Love the URI connection; but would rather have Billups. Unfortunately they need Billups to back up Paul. Odom would not have much trade value other than the expiring.
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Would not mind Bledsoe. Just not sure you want Odom. Love the URI connection; but would rather have Billups. Unfortunately they need Billups to back up Paul. Odom would not have much trade value other than the expiring.
Definitely no Odom. (We can squeeze them for a lot more.)
Mr. Kardashian is back home in LA. He loved Houston, huh? Imagine how he would react coming from where he wants to be, on a contender, to a team being gutted. Guess it would help us get a better draft pick. He'd make Rowe and Wicks look like gamers.
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O"Dumb" is O"Done"
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I bet the Clips would be happy to dump Jordan on us in place of Butler for KG. He is averaging $11M over the next 2.5 seasons. That is too much for 9 pts and 8 rebs. We can get that from Sullinger. I admit that I don't see the Clippers play all that much but I don't get the feeling that Jordan is a stopper of any sort either.
Bottom line, I just don't see a match; not with Bulter or Jordan with Bledsoe or anyone else. Nice to see the interest though. Maybe it will start a bidding war for KG.
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I bet the Clips would be happy to dump Jordan on us in place of Butler for KG. He is averaging $11M over the next 2.5 seasons. That is too much for 9 pts and 8 rebs. We can get that from Sullinger. I admit that I don't see the Clippers play all that much but I don't get the feeling that Jordan is a stopper of any sort either.
Bottom line, I just don't see a match; not with Bulter or Jordan with Bledsoe or anyone else. Nice to see the interest though. Maybe it will start a bidding war for KG.
Bledsoe and Jordan is a very good package for KG. Not sure why you think they'll be happy to dump Jordan. You mentioned his stats, but remember that he's only playing 24 mpg. Plus, he's only 24. As much as I love KG, if that's what they're offering, I would begrudgingly pull the trigger.
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I bet the Clips would be happy to dump Jordan on us in place of Butler for KG. He is averaging $11M over the next 2.5 seasons. That is too much for 9 pts and 8 rebs. We can get that from Sullinger. I admit that I don't see the Clippers play all that much but I don't get the feeling that Jordan is a stopper of any sort either.
Bottom line, I just don't see a match; not with Bulter or Jordan with Bledsoe or anyone else. Nice to see the interest though. Maybe it will start a bidding war for KG.
Bledsoe and Jordan is a very good package for KG. Not sure why you think they'll be happy to dump Jordan. You mentioned his stats, but remember that he's only playing 24 mpg. Plus, he's only 24. As much as I love KG, if that's what they're offering, I would begrudgingly pull the trigger.
What am I missing with Jordan. I see he is young but 5 years in the league and big but there is no real production? Does he suddenly blossom in year 6 or 7?
I only mention Jordan because I feel that would be the only realistic deal for KG. No way Butler and Bledsoe gets it done (at least I sure hope not).
On paper,two young players would be great for KG but if one on them is locked in at $11M and is only doing 9 and 8, I can't see it.
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If we trade KG for Bledsoe and Butler we are starting Collins and Bass in the front court. That has lottery written all over it.
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I bet the Clips would be happy to dump Jordan on us in place of Butler for KG. He is averaging $11M over the next 2.5 seasons. That is too much for 9 pts and 8 rebs. We can get that from Sullinger. I admit that I don't see the Clippers play all that much but I don't get the feeling that Jordan is a stopper of any sort either.
Bottom line, I just don't see a match; not with Bulter or Jordan with Bledsoe or anyone else. Nice to see the interest though. Maybe it will start a bidding war for KG.
Bledsoe and Jordan is a very good package for KG. Not sure why you think they'll be happy to dump Jordan. You mentioned his stats, but remember that he's only playing 24 mpg. Plus, he's only 24. As much as I love KG, if that's what they're offering, I would begrudgingly pull the trigger.
What am I missing with Jordan. I see he is young but 5 years in the league and big but there is no real production? Does he suddenly blossom in year 6 or 7?
I only mention Jordan because I feel that would be the only realistic deal for KG. No way Butler and Bledsoe gets it done (at least I sure hope not).
On paper,two young players would be great for KG but if one on them is locked in at $11M and is only doing 9 and 8, I can't see it.
The age is the big thing as it relates to bigs. Bigs take much longer to develop than smaller players and he continues to improve. This year his post game is much improved, but I don't think they posted him once today.
Per 36 minutes, which is what I would like him to play, he's averaging 13.2 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 2.1 blocks, and 60% from the field. By comparison, per 36 minutes, KG is averaging 17.8 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 1.2 bpg, and 50% from the field. One is 36, the other is 24 and rising. Plus Eric Bledsoe? The deal becomes a no brainer.
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If we trade KG for Bledsoe and Butler we are starting Collins and Bass in the front court. That has lottery written all over it.
u are sooooo right
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If your gonna move Garnett you mine as well do this trade.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bajgpdd (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bajgpdd)
Pierce probably only would want to go back to LA to play. He gets to move with KG and together make one last finals run. In return we get Bledsoe and Jordan, Butler to come off the bench for two years at half of Pierce's salary, an Odom's expiring.
In the summer we use Bledsoe, Bradley, Terry's contract and maybe Bass as trade bait along with our other assets to try and nab a big number one fish in the power forward department. Smith? Milsap? Jefferson?
Rondo/Barbosa
Lee/FA
Green/Butler
Jefferson/Sully
Jordan/Melo
A decent attempt at a future and some cap room?
I dont do it, I hate it actually. but if Ainge pulls the trigger I could see this making sense.
Great minds think alike. I think we could throw in Bass or Terry for Billups swap, and clear another 5/6 million in cap.
Out with the old, in with the new. It's gotta happen now, if the team wants to gain any kind of assets in the process. I suppose we could sit and wait for KG and Pierce contracts to expire. Maybe they both retire at the end of the year? But even if that's the case, wouldn't they rather go out playing in the finals with LAC, over getting spanked by the Heat as an 8-seed?
Yes sir. TP for just beating me to the punch.
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If your gonna move Garnett you mine as well do this trade.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bajgpdd (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bajgpdd)
Pierce probably only would want to go back to LA to play. He gets to move with KG and together make one last finals run. In return we get Bledsoe and Jordan, Butler to come off the bench for two years at half of Pierce's salary, an Odom's expiring.
In the summer we use Bledsoe, Bradley, Terry's contract and maybe Bass as trade bait along with our other assets to try and nab a big number one fish in the power forward department. Smith? Milsap? Jefferson?
Rondo/Barbosa
Lee/FA
Green/Butler
Jefferson/Sully
Jordan/Melo
A decent attempt at a future and some cap room?
I dont do it, I hate it actually. but if Ainge pulls the trigger I could see this making sense.
Great minds think alike. I think we could throw in Bass or Terry for Billups swap, and clear another 5/6 million in cap.
Out with the old, in with the new. It's gotta happen now, if the team wants to gain any kind of assets in the process. I suppose we could sit and wait for KG and Pierce contracts to expire. Maybe they both retire at the end of the year? But even if that's the case, wouldn't they rather go out playing in the finals with LAC, over getting spanked by the Heat as an 8-seed?
Yes sir. TP for just beating me to the punch.
I still don't think Clippers want to move Bledsoe until they're sure Paul will resign. Also, I think they're still contenders (and probably their GM thinks the same) so they would want to give it a go. They've got a 5% chance, and might as well keep this team intact.
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Jordan is in the Chandler mode. His job is to protect the rim, rebound, and score around the hoop. Those guys don't come cheap. He's 20% overpaid, but that's not unusual for bigs in the NBA.
If the Clips offer DJ and Bledsoe for KG, and Garnett is on board enough to waive his no trade, it's a no brainer. Boston gets a center to play next to Sullinger for the future, and a very valuable PG who could either be a Rondo replacement, or a Microwave type 6th man.
Unless Ainge sees the Celtics being able to get past the Heat in the playoffs, he should rebuild now. This is a good trade for a rebuilding team, and for the Clips, it gives them a better chance to win the title the next couple of years. The Clippers are going to struggle mightily in half court sets in the playoffs unless they can get a big who can shoot.
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If your gonna move Garnett you mine as well do this trade.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bajgpdd (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bajgpdd)
Pierce probably only would want to go back to LA to play. He gets to move with KG and together make one last finals run. In return we get Bledsoe and Jordan, Butler to come off the bench for two years at half of Pierce's salary, an Odom's expiring.
In the summer we use Bledsoe, Bradley, Terry's contract and maybe Bass as trade bait along with our other assets to try and nab a big number one fish in the power forward department. Smith? Milsap? Jefferson?
Rondo/Barbosa
Lee/FA
Green/Butler
Jefferson/Sully
Jordan/Melo
A decent attempt at a future and some cap room?
I dont do it, I hate it actually. but if Ainge pulls the trigger I could see this making sense.
Great minds think alike. I think we could throw in Bass or Terry for Billups swap, and clear another 5/6 million in cap.
Out with the old, in with the new. It's gotta happen now, if the team wants to gain any kind of assets in the process. I suppose we could sit and wait for KG and Pierce contracts to expire. Maybe they both retire at the end of the year? But even if that's the case, wouldn't they rather go out playing in the finals with LAC, over getting spanked by the Heat as an 8-seed?
Yes sir. TP for just beating me to the punch.
I still don't think Clippers want to move Bledsoe until they're sure Paul will resign. Also, I think they're still contenders (and probably their GM thinks the same) so they would want to give it a go. They've got a 5% chance, and might as well keep this team intact.
They would move him if they thought it would make them a true favorite, which KG does depending on what else is involved (they aren't gutting their bench or depth).
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I would take Bledsoe & Jordan!!
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If your gonna move Garnett you mine as well do this trade.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bajgpdd (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bajgpdd)
Pierce probably only would want to go back to LA to play. He gets to move with KG and together make one last finals run. In return we get Bledsoe and Jordan, Butler to come off the bench for two years at half of Pierce's salary, an Odom's expiring.
In the summer we use Bledsoe, Bradley, Terry's contract and maybe Bass as trade bait along with our other assets to try and nab a big number one fish in the power forward department. Smith? Milsap? Jefferson?
Rondo/Barbosa
Lee/FA
Green/Butler
Jefferson/Sully
Jordan/Melo
A decent attempt at a future and some cap room?
I dont do it, I hate it actually. but if Ainge pulls the trigger I could see this making sense.
Great minds think alike. I think we could throw in Bass or Terry for Billups swap, and clear another 5/6 million in cap.
Out with the old, in with the new. It's gotta happen now, if the team wants to gain any kind of assets in the process. I suppose we could sit and wait for KG and Pierce contracts to expire. Maybe they both retire at the end of the year? But even if that's the case, wouldn't they rather go out playing in the finals with LAC, over getting spanked by the Heat as an 8-seed?
Yes sir. TP for just beating me to the punch.
I still don't think Clippers want to move Bledsoe until they're sure Paul will resign. Also, I think they're still contenders (and probably their GM thinks the same) so they would want to give it a go. They've got a 5% chance, and might as well keep this team intact.
They would move him if they thought it would make them a true favorite, which KG does depending on what else is involved (they aren't gutting their bench or depth).
Even with KG, they might not be as good as the Spurs, Nuggets, Thunder IMO
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Deandre Jordan reminds me of what Perk would have been if he stayed here: no real offensive game, alters shots and does block some at a decent rate, bad free throw shooter. We weren't willing to give Perk 10 mil per, so why would we give a guy whose skill set is essentially the same that amount?
Bledsoe is a nice prospect, but I'd think it would take more than him and an expiring to take one of the best defenders and jump shooting bigs in the league from us.
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We weren't willing to give Perk 10 mil per, so why would we give a guy whose skill set is essentially the same that amount?
Because he's 6'11 with solid wingspan and oh so athletic.
Not that I want to trade KG.
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Deandre Jordan reminds me of what Perk would have been if he stayed here: no real offensive game, alters shots and does block some at a decent rate, bad free throw shooter.
In case people didn't realize it, Perkins is a 60.8% career FT shooter while DeAndre Jordan is significantly worse at 43.6%. Among players with at least 200 games in the 3-pt era, only Lorenzo Williams, Jerome Lane, Jim Brewer, and Ben Wallace are worse than Jordan.
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i would do it, if there is a good offer. i have a feeling that kg is done after this season when they get bounced early from the playoffs. i think he'll realize there is no title run coming. it's really about 3 months of basketball or the future.
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i would do it, if there is a good offer. i have a feeling that kg is done after this season when they get bounced early from the playoffs. i think he'll realize there is no title run coming. it's really about 3 months of basketball or the future.
no sir
i know for a fact KG still thinks he can get another ring..
thats his heart...and i believe with him
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I bet the Clips would be happy to dump Jordan on us in place of Butler for KG. He is averaging $11M over the next 2.5 seasons. That is too much for 9 pts and 8 rebs. We can get that from Sullinger. I admit that I don't see the Clippers play all that much but I don't get the feeling that Jordan is a stopper of any sort either.
Bottom line, I just don't see a match; not with Bulter or Jordan with Bledsoe or anyone else. Nice to see the interest though. Maybe it will start a bidding war for KG.
Bledsoe and Jordan is a very good package for KG. Not sure why you think they'll be happy to dump Jordan. You mentioned his stats, but remember that he's only playing 24 mpg. Plus, he's only 24. As much as I love KG, if that's what they're offering, I would begrudgingly pull the trigger.
What am I missing with Jordan. I see he is young but 5 years in the league and big but there is no real production? Does he suddenly blossom in year 6 or 7?
I only mention Jordan because I feel that would be the only realistic deal for KG. No way Butler and Bledsoe gets it done (at least I sure hope not).
On paper,two young players would be great for KG but if one on them is locked in at $11M and is only doing 9 and 8, I can't see it.
The age is the big thing as it relates to bigs. Bigs take much longer to develop than smaller players and he continues to improve. This year his post game is much improved, but I don't think they posted him once today.
Per 36 minutes, which is what I would like him to play, he's averaging 13.2 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 2.1 blocks, and 60% from the field. By comparison, per 36 minutes, KG is averaging 17.8 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 1.2 bpg, and 50% from the field. One is 36, the other is 24 and rising. Plus Eric Bledsoe? The deal becomes a no brainer.
Hardly. You can't play Jordan 36 minutes because of his foul shooting and KG's got a better PER offensively (19.0 vs 16.9, despite that high FG% from all those dunks). Defensively KG is a much, much better player than Jordan and is ranked 22nd in the NBA this year by SynergySports on opponent's points per possession (i.e., on-ball defense) vs 157th for Jordan (there are 150 starters in the NBA and roughly 450 players). As far as help defense, KG's one of the all-time best. The general feeling among Clippers fans is that Jordan is overpaid. Bledsoe's also over-rated and a lot of Clippers fans think he's strictly a back-up talent and hasn't been doing very well as that despite tonight's game. His SynergySports ratings are well into backup player territory ranking 234th defensively and 257th offensively.
The Clippers are very ordinary witout CP3. If I'm blowing things up, give me expiring contracts and picks rather than these two players.
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Deandre Jordan reminds me of what Perk would have been if he stayed here: no real offensive game, alters shots and does block some at a decent rate, bad free throw shooter.
He is x10 the athlete Perk was and he can jump.
This trade isn't happening as Bledsoe is their PG. First it was Butler now it is Jordan. Butler, Bledsoe made little sense and this led to think this whole thread is but a a rumor. It would kill their guard rotation. I think someone is pulling our strings.
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I'd have to do Jordan/Bledsoe for KG and I'd think Danny would too. An athletic 7ft center and a very capable young PG is too much from an asset standpoint to pass up. Even if we aren't building with those guys it would be hard to say no just on a talent basis. KG is probably a top-10 all-time NBA player but the C's can't assume he'll play forever.
The only team I'd rather trade KG to is the Thunder. If I thought we could move him and Melo for Martin/Lamb/PJIII package I'd rather have those players and I think pairing him with Perk again makes too much sense. If the Clipppers offer Jordan/Bledsoe those guys are so young and already somewhat proven that it only makes sense they are better assets. Either trade is something to pull the trigger on I think.
To be honest at this point I would seriously consider trading Rondo to a rebuilding team for one last swing at a championship. It would really sting but with the way we are playing and Rondo's value, even injured, it seems like a worthwhile thing to investigate.
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Bledsoe is a nice prospect, but I'd think it would take more than him and an expiring to take one of the best defenders and jump shooting bigs in the league from us.
Well, it's more like a few months, perhaps a season and a half of KG being traded for a nice young prospect and an expiring.
Obviously it would be a bad trade if KG weren't 36 and on the verge of retirement.
But the calculus changes when you factor in KG's age, Pierce's age, and the fact that Rondo and Sullinger will both be out until the start of next season, and neither may be at full strength again until at least halfway through next season.
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Deandre Jordan reminds me of what Perk would have been if he stayed here: no real offensive game, alters shots and does block some at a decent rate, bad free throw shooter.
He is x10 the athlete Perk was and he can jump.
True. His production is pretty similar to Perk's, at least prior to Perk's injury.
Perk (2009, age 24): 8.5 points, 8.1 rebounds, 2.0 blocks, 1.3 assists, 57.7% FG%
Jordan (2013, age 24): 9.0 points, 6.9 rebounds, 1.4 blocks, 0.4 assists, 60.3% FG%
Perk went on to up his scoring to 10.1 points per game on 60% shooting in 2010, prior to the injury. I think a lot of folks forget that Perk was a pretty decent contributor on the offensive end as a fifth option.
At the same time, I doubt anybody wants to pay $11 million+ per season for Perk-like production.
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Deandre Jordan reminds me of what Perk would have been if he stayed here: no real offensive game, alters shots and does block some at a decent rate, bad free throw shooter.
He is x10 the athlete Perk was and he can jump.
True. His production is pretty similar to Perk's, at least prior to Perk's injury.
Perk (2009, age 24): 8.5 points, 8.1 rebounds, 2.0 blocks, 1.3 assists, 57.7% FG%
Jordan (2013, age 24): 9.0 points, 6.9 rebounds, 1.4 blocks, 0.4 assists, 60.3% FG%
Perk went on to up his scoring to 10.1 points per game on 60% shooting in 2010, prior to the injury. I think a lot of folks forget that Perk was a pretty decent contributor on the offensive end as a fifth option.
At the same time, I doubt anybody wants to pay $11 million+ per season for Perk-like production.
Perk was having a really nice 2010 season before his injury. I remember at one point he was averaging like 12 points a game and had a few 20 point games.
Unfortunately the knee injury really seemed to set him back.
As for Jordan, to me it just comes down to minutes. You don't give $10 million a season to a guy who can only be on the floor for 20-25 minutes a night, unless he's Manu Ginobili or something.
Jordan per-36 is a 13 pt 10 reb 2 blk on 60% shooting player. If he could hit 60-70% of his free throws he'd be worth every penny (and would probably average closer to 15 or 16 points per 36).
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Deandre Jordan reminds me of what Perk would have been if he stayed here: no real offensive game, alters shots and does block some at a decent rate, bad free throw shooter.
He is x10 the athlete Perk was and he can jump.
True. His production is pretty similar to Perk's, at least prior to Perk's injury.
Perk (2009, age 24): 8.5 points, 8.1 rebounds, 2.0 blocks, 1.3 assists, 57.7% FG%
Jordan (2013, age 24): 9.0 points, 6.9 rebounds, 1.4 blocks, 0.4 assists, 60.3% FG%
Perk went on to up his scoring to 10.1 points per game on 60% shooting in 2010, prior to the injury. I think a lot of folks forget that Perk was a pretty decent contributor on the offensive end as a fifth option.
At the same time, I doubt anybody wants to pay $11 million+ per season for Perk-like production.
I feel like a lot of people forget this as well. For as "bad" as Perk was on the offensive end. He was a nice fifth option, waiting on the block for the easy dunks and weak side put backs.
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At the same time, I doubt anybody wants to pay $11 million+ per season for Perk-like production.
Right. The thing about Jordan is that dreaded P word though. With Jordan's athletic ability and length, he should be able to be an even bigger defensive presence than Perkins, if he keeps developing. Perk pretty much was maxing out his ability by the time he was 24.
I can see an argument that Jordan has the potential to be a Tyson Chandler type gamechanger, as he continues to learn the game...but that's a gamble.
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Deandre Jordan reminds me of what Perk would have been if he stayed here: no real offensive game, alters shots and does block some at a decent rate, bad free throw shooter.
He is x10 the athlete Perk was and he can jump.
True. His production is pretty similar to Perk's, at least prior to Perk's injury.
Perk (2009, age 24): 8.5 points, 8.1 rebounds, 2.0 blocks, 1.3 assists, 57.7% FG%
Jordan (2013, age 24): 9.0 points, 6.9 rebounds, 1.4 blocks, 0.4 assists, 60.3% FG%
Perk went on to up his scoring to 10.1 points per game on 60% shooting in 2010, prior to the injury. I think a lot of folks forget that Perk was a pretty decent contributor on the offensive end as a fifth option.
At the same time, I doubt anybody wants to pay $11 million+ per season for Perk-like production.
I feel like a lot of people forget this as well. For as "bad" as Perk was on the offensive end. He was a nice fifth option, waiting on the block for the easy dunks and weak side put backs.
Pre-injury, Perk was a nice bargain at 3 or 4 million a season. But even at the pre-injury production, 7-8 million was a stretch. Without the benefit of being the 5th option / afterthought on offense (i.e. post-Big 3), it'd be hard for Perk to keep producing the way he was.
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At the same time, I doubt anybody wants to pay $11 million+ per season for Perk-like production.
Right. The thing about Jordan is that dreaded P word though. With Jordan's athletic ability and length, he should be able to be an even bigger defensive presence than Perkins, if he keeps developing. Perk pretty much was maxing out his ability by the time he was 24.
I can see an argument that Jordan has the potential to be a Tyson Chandler type gamechanger, as he continues to learn the game...but that's a gamble.
A really underrated aspect of Tyson's game is that he's one of the few 7 foot dunks / rebounds / blocks guys who hits a high percentage of his free throws. That allows him to be on the floor in tight end-of-game situations and means that getting him the ball inside is a good play even if he gets fouled.
Doubtful Jordan will ever be able to do that.
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At the same time, I doubt anybody wants to pay $11 million+ per season for Perk-like production.
Right. The thing about Jordan is that dreaded P word though. With Jordan's athletic ability and length, he should be able to be an even bigger defensive presence than Perkins, if he keeps developing. Perk pretty much was maxing out his ability by the time he was 24.
I can see an argument that Jordan has the potential to be a Tyson Chandler type gamechanger, as he continues to learn the game...but that's a gamble.
I don't buy it. I don't see that Jordan's game has developed much over the last couple of seasons; he's still the same player now he was two years ago.
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Deandre Jordan is a fun player, but would be a bad acquisition for the Celtics.
Jordan has been compared here to Perkins and Chandler because he is a big center with limited offensive abilities and a good nose for rebounding and shot blocking.
DANGER! What makes Perkins and Chandler such useful players is that they play excellent team defense and make good decisions with the ball. Jordan is terrible in these respects, which is why the Clippers are generally worse when he is on the floor.
On this forum, we often fantasize about Kevin Garnett taking basketball-dumb physical freaks like Deandre Jordan, Javale McGee, and <gulp> Fab Melo under his wing. I don't know if the KG Academy is actually a real institution, but I do know that it will be closed if Professor Garnett gets sent to LA.
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At the same time, I doubt anybody wants to pay $11 million+ per season for Perk-like production.
Right. The thing about Jordan is that dreaded P word though. With Jordan's athletic ability and length, he should be able to be an even bigger defensive presence than Perkins, if he keeps developing. Perk pretty much was maxing out his ability by the time he was 24.
I can see an argument that Jordan has the potential to be a Tyson Chandler type gamechanger, as he continues to learn the game...but that's a gamble.
I don't buy it. I don't see that Jordan's game has developed much over the last couple of seasons; he's still the same player now he was two years ago.
He's gotten a lot better in my view, but still not far enough to be worth paying what he signed for.
He still makes the dumb plays, but he now has at least some clue what to do defensively most plays. Both he and Griffin have worked out how to be effective defensively, biggest reason the Clippers have improved so much defensively.
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At the same time, I doubt anybody wants to pay $11 million+ per season for Perk-like production.
Right. The thing about Jordan is that dreaded P word though. With Jordan's athletic ability and length, he should be able to be an even bigger defensive presence than Perkins, if he keeps developing. Perk pretty much was maxing out his ability by the time he was 24.
I can see an argument that Jordan has the potential to be a Tyson Chandler type gamechanger, as he continues to learn the game...but that's a gamble.
I don't buy it. I don't see that Jordan's game has developed much over the last couple of seasons; he's still the same player now he was two years ago.
Yeah if anything it appears as though Jordan has regressed over the past year or two.
Still, Jordan compares pretty evenly to Chandler when you match both up at age 24. He certainly fouls a lot less...
If Jordan can make the same strides that Chandler made at the free throw line & man defense I could see him having a similar career path. It may take a while, but a bigtime defensive anchor and a legitimate 3rd option offensively is something I wouldn't be suprised by.
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It is interesting to read the Clipper fan perspective on this here-
http://www.clipsnation.com/2013/2/3/3948282/clippers-interested-in-kevin-garnett
I initially thought that the Jordan+Bledsoe for Garnett package was a crazy pipe dream being cooked up by Celtics homers... but there are Clips fans on that board who would happily take that deal.
The Clipper fans are really hungry for some success and many of them see KG as a king-maker.
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At the same time, I doubt anybody wants to pay $11 million+ per season for Perk-like production.
Right. The thing about Jordan is that dreaded P word though. With Jordan's athletic ability and length, he should be able to be an even bigger defensive presence than Perkins, if he keeps developing. Perk pretty much was maxing out his ability by the time he was 24.
I can see an argument that Jordan has the potential to be a Tyson Chandler type gamechanger, as he continues to learn the game...but that's a gamble.
I don't buy it. I don't see that Jordan's game has developed much over the last couple of seasons; he's still the same player now he was two years ago.
I am with you. I never believed much in Jordan (and wasn't a Perk fan either). Just playing Devils Advocate.
I think if there is a deal to be had for KG, it is Bledsoe and Odom's expiring contract.
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A really underrated aspect of Tyson's game is that he's one of the few 7 foot dunks / rebounds / blocks guys who hits a high percentage of his free throws. That allows him to be on the floor in tight end-of-game situations and means that getting him the ball inside is a good play even if he gets fouled.
Doubtful Jordan will ever be able to do that.
Jordan's FT% is so low that I believe fouling him every possession and sending him to the line would, in theory, give up fewer points per possession than a good defense. Obviously, you can't sustain that over a whole game because you run out of players, but he's so bad he makes Rondo look like Ray Allen.
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Some quotes from Clipper fans:
When the games slow down come playoff time, we might have trouble scoring. Garnett would help space the floor. DJ is worthless.
If there’s a deal for Kevin Garnett that doesn’t involve Blake or Chris you do it imo... Even if it takes DJ/Bledsoe
why would they want Bledsoe? avery and rondo is a pretty good backcourt as is. DJ and 1st makes more sense to me
Two things you forgot to mention: Kevin Garnett and Chauncey Billups are literally best friends and have known each other forever...Also Kevin Garnett lives in Malibu during the off season
DJ/Caron for Garnett and Lee. Get it done please. Throw in a 1st if need be.
and in response to that--- Celtic fans should call SVU if that went down
I don’t think it’s feasible, as I mentioned before, but if there’s anyway to get BOTH Garnett and Pierce I am fine cashing in what youth we have on the roster outside of our Dynamic Duo.
Can we trade Vinny and a number one pick for Doc Rivers instead?
Please, the talent disparity between Garnett and any combination of Butler, DJ, or Bledsoe is so large that it doesn’t even matter.
I’d easily give up DJ and a 1st rounder for Garnett, and I actually think that is a more likely than the Bledsoe scenario... DJ and a 1st rounder (or two 1st rounders) make sense for the Celts.
This one is particularly interesting to me:
DJ has a pretty big contract, and isn’t all that good. Getting free from that contract alone has a bit of value. The improvement that would come from swapping DJ and KG is too substantial to pass up for a team that has title aspirations in the short term.
And this- apparently some Clips fans also believe in KG Academy
centers have wrecked us this year . The ones with good screening bigs that roll to the basket kill us on the glass and easy baskets... KG would be a good role model for Blake and DJ he could teach them about how to be a a championship big . Its one thing to be a sportscenter big but you have to understand the nuances of the game to take that next step and KG could teach them .
By they way, they are also watching celticsblog and having a laugh at the posters who bring up Blake Griffin.
I don't see the Celtics doing this...Because they already have a plethora of good guards. On the other hand, I checked out Celticsblog…. Lol, anyone who even mentions Griffin is just out of their mind.
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I've said it before and will say it again, Jordan makes absolutely no sense. I'd rather have Odom and his expiring contract in a trade for KG or Pierce. Butler would be fine, if there was a follow-up move for Pierce, but otherwise I wouldn't want to move him.
If LA offered Odom, Bledsoe, and a couple of firsts for KG, I'd certainly consider it, but I think I would do this one
Garnett, Terry, and Green for Odom, Butler, Bledsoe, Billups, and 2013 1st
I have no idea if LA would do that, but I think it would be a good trade for both teams. It would be solid value back for Garnett and clear off a bunch of long term salary for Boston and it would set LA up as a clear top tier contender, if not the favorite in the West (they would be tough with Paul, Crawford, Barnes, Griffin, Garnett with Jordan, Green, and Terry being the main rotation).
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It is interesting to read the Clipper fan perspective on this here-
http://www.clipsnation.com/2013/2/3/3948282/clippers-interested-in-kevin-garnett
I initially thought that the Jordan+Bledsoe for Garnett package was a crazy pipe dream being cooked up by Celtics homers... but there are Clips fans on that board who would happily take that deal.
The Clipper fans are really hungry for some success and many of them see KG as a king-maker.
Crazy pipe dream? It's a bad trade for the Celtics. You're trading your second best player for a pair of guys that are just serviceable, and one of which is a cap killer.
A pipe dream is Garnett and Bradley for Bledsoe and Griffin (not that it works, contract-wise).
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At the same time, I doubt anybody wants to pay $11 million+ per season for Perk-like production.
Right. The thing about Jordan is that dreaded P word though. With Jordan's athletic ability and length, he should be able to be an even bigger defensive presence than Perkins, if he keeps developing. Perk pretty much was maxing out his ability by the time he was 24.
I can see an argument that Jordan has the potential to be a Tyson Chandler type gamechanger, as he continues to learn the game...but that's a gamble.
I don't buy it. I don't see that Jordan's game has developed much over the last couple of seasons; he's still the same player now he was two years ago.
Yeah if anything it appears as though Jordan has regressed over the past year or two.
Still, Jordan compares pretty evenly to Chandler when you match both up at age 24. He certainly fouls a lot less...
If Jordan can make the same strides that Chandler made at the free throw line & man defense I could see him having a similar career path. It may take a while, but a bigtime defensive anchor and a legitimate 3rd option offensively is something I wouldn't be suprised by.
Yeah I mean it took chandler like 10 years to not suck.
He was a huge bust for a while. Jordan has plenty of time to get on chandlers level.
I just want to grab him in 10 years when he's learned some stuff like Dallas did with Chandler.
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It is interesting to read the Clipper fan perspective on this here-
http://www.clipsnation.com/2013/2/3/3948282/clippers-interested-in-kevin-garnett
I initially thought that the Jordan+Bledsoe for Garnett package was a crazy pipe dream being cooked up by Celtics homers... but there are Clips fans on that board who would happily take that deal.
The Clipper fans are really hungry for some success and many of them see KG as a king-maker.
Crazy pipe dream? It's a bad trade for the Celtics. You're trading your second best player for a pair of guys that are just serviceable, and one of which is a cap killer.
A pipe dream is Garnett and Bradley for Bledsoe and Griffin (not that it works, contract-wise).
I don't understand what you mean. You are saying Bledsoe+Jordan isn't a good return for Garnett? I'm not criticizing, just asking. If not, what do you think would be KG's fair trade value?
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I don't see the point unless there is a third team that wants Bledsoe and sends the Celtics a younger, talented big man to replace KG.
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It is interesting to read the Clipper fan perspective on this here-
http://www.clipsnation.com/2013/2/3/3948282/clippers-interested-in-kevin-garnett
I initially thought that the Jordan+Bledsoe for Garnett package was a crazy pipe dream being cooked up by Celtics homers... but there are Clips fans on that board who would happily take that deal.
The Clipper fans are really hungry for some success and many of them see KG as a king-maker.
Crazy pipe dream? It's a bad trade for the Celtics. You're trading your second best player for a pair of guys that are just serviceable, and one of which is a cap killer.
A pipe dream is Garnett and Bradley for Bledsoe and Griffin (not that it works, contract-wise).
I don't understand what you mean. You are saying Bledsoe+Jordan isn't a good return for Garnett? I'm not criticizing, just asking. If not, what do you think would be KG's fair trade value?
I'm saying I don't understand why you think this is a "crazy pipe dream", given that it's an obviously poor trade for the Celtics. Garnett, on his last legs, is likely going to be better than any of those two players will be over the next two or three years.
So you're trading away the best player in the deal, and gaining no cap flexibility in the process. Not sure what the incentive is to do this deal, let alone call it a "crazy pipe dream". The Clippers will pounce on this before you can say KG's favorite expletive, and probably even toss a first-rounder in the mix.
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I don't see the point unless there is a third team that wants Bledsoe and sends the Celtics a younger, talented big man to replace KG.
Yeah a three team trade would make sense.
Also if you've convinced KG to accept a trade that works for the C's, then you have to find a trade involving Paul.
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I don't see the point unless there is a third team that wants Bledsoe and sends the Celtics a younger, talented big man to replace KG.
Something like this?
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=babny4f
A man can dream...
edit: Messed up the trade initially.
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I don't see the point unless there is a third team that wants Bledsoe and sends the Celtics a younger, talented big man to replace KG.
Something like this?
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bkqsf9u
A man can dream...
I like the dream. Celtics get both Cousins and Bledsoe.
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I don't see the point unless there is a third team that wants Bledsoe and sends the Celtics a younger, talented big man to replace KG.
Something like this?
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bkqsf9u
A man can dream...
I like the dream. Celtics get both Cousins and Bledsoe.
I messed up the trade in this link. Sacramento are supposed to get Jordan and send Brooks to the Clippers.
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I don't see the point unless there is a third team that wants Bledsoe and sends the Celtics a younger, talented big man to replace KG.
Something like this?
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bkqsf9u
A man can dream...
I like the dream. Celtics get both Cousins and Bledsoe.
Utah Jazz?
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I think if there is a deal to be had for KG, it is Bledsoe and Odom's expiring contract.
I think that isn't enough. Adding KG to a roster puts a whole new face on the defense. Bledsoe, Odom and their 2014 1st rounder maybe. I'd rather have Bledsoe/Jordan and a 2nd rounder I think. KG is worth that even at this stage in his career. He plays so hard. I don't remember a game where he didn't have a significant impact (zero-rebound game aside, he had 19pts on 82% shooting in 23min. that night). You just can't say that about Bledsoe or Jordan. I have to believe GMs see that stuff too. 6 months of KG puts them far closer to a championship than 3-4 years of those other guys. And now I've convinced myself to keep KG :)
Something like this?
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bkqsf9u
A man can dream...
I messed up the trade in this link. Sacramento are supposed to get Jordan and send Brooks to the Clippers.
No way SAC gives up Cousins for Jordan. That is a significant downgrade in talent and a significant upgrade in salary. Maybe this: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=as8h9t6
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I don't see the point unless there is a third team that wants Bledsoe and sends the Celtics a younger, talented big man to replace KG.
Something like this?
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bkqsf9u
A man can dream...
I like the dream. Celtics get both Cousins and Bledsoe.
I messed up the trade in this link. Sacramento are supposed to get Jordan and send Brooks to the Clippers.
I know.
But I like the dream mistake even better.
If we are going to dream, dream big. :)
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Maybe something like this?
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bbygklr (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bbygklr)
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I'm saying I don't understand why you think this is a "crazy pipe dream", given that it's an obviously poor trade for the Celtics. Garnett, on his last legs, is likely going to be better than any of those two players will be over the next two or three years.
So you're trading away the best player in the deal, and gaining no cap flexibility in the process. Not sure what the incentive is to do this deal, let alone call it a "crazy pipe dream". The Clippers will pounce on this before you can say KG's favorite expletive, and probably even toss a first-rounder in the mix.
I see. Well, you probably know the counter-arguments to this. Garnett may retire or may deteriorate rapidly. Bledsoe and Jordan may have all-star potential. Get younger, etc.
I personally think Jordan may earn his money over the course of the next three years, but I don't see him turning into the next Dwight Howard.
The reason I thought it was a pipe dream is that I don't think the Clippers will offer it. Those are two of their three best assets.
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Maybe something like this?
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bbygklr (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bbygklr)
The Jazz arent trading Favors. And thats a terrible return for Lee and KG.
The Jazz are looking to trade Milsap or Jefferson to open up the room to play Favors. Both have expiring deals and the Jazz arent going to resign them.
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Celtics Send: Garnett, Green, Bass, Melo and Collins
Clippers Send: Bledsoe, Jordan, Butler and Odom (Expiring)
It is a bitter pill, and the precursor to a Rondo trade, but it really positions the C's well for 2014/15... Move Terry and Lee, and in 1014/15 you rebuild around:
Bledsoe (25), Bradley (24), Sullinger (22) and Jordan (27), two first rounders, whatever you get for Rondo and about $40M in cap space
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Maybe something like this?
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bbygklr (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bbygklr)
Wow. You know, that's actually really fascinating. Who says no to this?
I usually regret clicking on trade machine links, but this is a neat idea. Kudoz to you
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I'm saying I don't understand why you think this is a "crazy pipe dream", given that it's an obviously poor trade for the Celtics. Garnett, on his last legs, is likely going to be better than any of those two players will be over the next two or three years.
So you're trading away the best player in the deal, and gaining no cap flexibility in the process. Not sure what the incentive is to do this deal
1. Right now, KG still seems the best player in the deal, but we haven't gotten a chance to see what Bledsoe is like as a full-time starter. If he produces even close to what he did against Boston, say 18 pts and 7 assists a game, he'd already be very close to KG's current level and has the chance to be even better.
2. With his no-trade clause, KG's value in any future deal is automatically lower than either Jordan's or Bledsoe's. KG really doesn't even have any value as an expiring deal unless he's willing to go to some team trying to unload a bad contract.
3. Giving up the best player isn't a big deal when the whole point is that you're not concerned with winning this year. Getting a shot at a top 3 lottery pick might be a better deal than holding onto the 8th playoff spot in the East.
4. If we just hold onto KG until he retires, Boston gets nothing but cap space. Unless you think a rebuilding Celtics team is suddenly going to become vastly more attractive to free agents than it ever has been in the past, players > cap space.
5. Getting Bledsoe allows you to make a future trade of either him or Rondo for another player.
Ultimately, all that matters is what KG wants. If he's willing to accept the trade, it would be crazy to pass on something like Bledsoe and Jordan. Which gets you closer to another title? 2 to 3 years of a continually declining KG with a no-trade clause or 5 to 10 years of Bledsoe and Jordan?
Mike
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http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Boston: out Garnett, Terry and Bass
in Millsap, Kanter, Odom, Billups, Utah 1st, Clippers 1st
Clippers: out Bledsoe, Jordan, Odom, Billups, 1st
in Garnett, Terry, Bass
Utah: out Millsap, Kanter, 1st
in Jordan, Bledsoe
Our lineup:
Lee/Billups/Barbosa
Bradley/Barbosa/Billups
Pierce/Green/Odom
Millsap/Odom/Wilcox
Kanter/Wilcox/Collins
and next year we add Rondo, Sully and 3 first round picks
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Maybe something like this?
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bbygklr (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bbygklr)
The Jazz arent trading Favors. And thats a terrible return for Lee and KG.
The Jazz are looking to trade Milsap or Jefferson to open up the room to play Favors. Both have expiring deals and the Jazz arent going to resign them.
If KG is going to be traded, this is one of the best [realistic] returns I've seen anyone cook up. Favors (and his contract) is on par with the PF equivalent of Bledsoe. I think that the Jazz would have to consider taking a deal like this and then re-signing Milsap as an alternative to building around Favors.
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If you trade KG, you have to trade Pierce
How about
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2xdfq8
With a 1st coming to Boston and a 1st coming to Cleveland (Boston gets the better of the two)
Boston sheds 14.9 million this season. It puts them 1.4 million under the cap. Buy out Odom (last year at 8 million) and the Celtics probably have enough to offer a two year deal to Oden.
Find takers for Bass and Terry, the Celtics suddenly have young talent, cap space and extra 1sts to build a team around Rondo when he comes back.
That's how Ainge did it the last time.
Yes, I would find this a very hard pill to swallow.
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If you trade KG, you have to trade Pierce
How about
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2xdfq8
With a 1st coming to Boston and a 1st coming to Cleveland (Boston gets the better of the two)
Boston sheds 14.9 million this season. It puts them 1.4 million under the cap. Buy out Odom (last year at 8 million) and the Celtics probably have enough to offer a two year deal to Oden.
Find takers for Bass and Terry, the Celtics suddenly have young talent, cap space and extra 1sts to build a team around Rondo when he comes back.
That's how Ainge did it the last time.
Yes, I would find this a very hard pill to swallow.
Utah never makes that trade.
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If you trade KG, you have to trade Pierce
How about
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2xdfq8
With a 1st coming to Boston and a 1st coming to Cleveland (Boston gets the better of the two)
Boston sheds 14.9 million this season. It puts them 1.4 million under the cap. Buy out Odom (last year at 8 million) and the Celtics probably have enough to offer a two year deal to Oden.
Find takers for Bass and Terry, the Celtics suddenly have young talent, cap space and extra 1sts to build a team around Rondo when he comes back.
That's how Ainge did it the last time.
Yes, I would find this a very hard pill to swallow.
Not convinced they have to be in the same trade.
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If you trade KG, you have to trade Pierce
How about
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2xdfq8
With a 1st coming to Boston and a 1st coming to Cleveland (Boston gets the better of the two)
Boston sheds 14.9 million this season. It puts them 1.4 million under the cap. Buy out Odom (last year at 8 million) and the Celtics probably have enough to offer a two year deal to Oden.
Find takers for Bass and Terry, the Celtics suddenly have young talent, cap space and extra 1sts to build a team around Rondo when he comes back.
That's how Ainge did it the last time.
Yes, I would find this a very hard pill to swallow.
Utah never makes that trade.
Why?
They improve their lineup
Bledseo
Lee
Pierce
Millsap
Jefferson
with a bench of
Foye'
Carrol
Marvin Williams
Kantor.
That team can contend.
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If you trade KG, you have to trade Pierce
How about
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2xdfq8
With a 1st coming to Boston and a 1st coming to Cleveland (Boston gets the better of the two)
Boston sheds 14.9 million this season. It puts them 1.4 million under the cap. Buy out Odom (last year at 8 million) and the Celtics probably have enough to offer a two year deal to Oden.
Find takers for Bass and Terry, the Celtics suddenly have young talent, cap space and extra 1sts to build a team around Rondo when he comes back.
That's how Ainge did it the last time.
Yes, I would find this a very hard pill to swallow.
Not convinced they have to be in the same trade.
Of course not. Just more fun to play with.
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If you trade KG, you have to trade Pierce
How about
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2xdfq8
With a 1st coming to Boston and a 1st coming to Cleveland (Boston gets the better of the two)
Boston sheds 14.9 million this season. It puts them 1.4 million under the cap. Buy out Odom (last year at 8 million) and the Celtics probably have enough to offer a two year deal to Oden.
Find takers for Bass and Terry, the Celtics suddenly have young talent, cap space and extra 1sts to build a team around Rondo when he comes back.
That's how Ainge did it the last time.
Yes, I would find this a very hard pill to swallow.
Not convinced they have to be in the same trade.
Probably the only way Kg waives the No Trade Clause.
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Maybe something like this?
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bbygklr (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bbygklr)
The Jazz arent trading Favors. And thats a terrible return for Lee and KG.
The Jazz are looking to trade Milsap or Jefferson to open up the room to play Favors. Both have expiring deals and the Jazz arent going to resign them.
If KG is going to be traded, this is one of the best [realistic] returns I've seen anyone cook up. Favors (and his contract) is on par with the PF equivalent of Bledsoe. I think that the Jazz would have to consider taking a deal like this and then re-signing Milsap as an alternative to building around Favors.
Bledsoe/Hayward/Kanter / Millsap is a heck of a foundation. Millsap is only 26/27 he's got 6-7 years of excellent play left. Plenty of time for that core to get good. meanwhile we get Favors and a nice third guard in Burks who can play excellent defense to help build towards the future and 8 million dollars off the book when Odom leaves next year.
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Clippers fans who whine about DeAndre Jordan are total morons. They are blinded by the amazing production provided by Blake Griffin as a big, and compare the two. These fans simply aren't used to winning, easy to tell.
The more and more news that comes out on this, the more I'm thinking BOTH Pierce and KG are going to the Clippers.
If LAC decides that acquiring KG and/or PP is the move to put them over the top to "WIN NOW" (the most valued concept in any pro-sports next to "MAKE MONEY"), then we have to take full advantage of them showing their cards so to speak.
The future in Boston can use younger prospects like Jordan and Bledsoe. Bledsoe is the perfect backup to Rondo, or either Rondo/Bledsoe can be included in an offseason trade.
Jordan would be a more than solid starting center, especially in the EC.
I think we could pry both of these guys in a deal AND dump the salary of either Bass or Terry, freeing up even more cap space.
BOS Trades:
Pierce, KG, (Terry or Bass), Chris Wilcox
LAC Trades:
DeAndre Jordan, Eric Bledsoe, Lamar Odom (expiring), Caron Butler (shares minutes with Green at SF).......if the Clips are real in to the trade, we could get a 1st rounder or 2 out of them.
Chris Paul is a FA, and they need him to resign. Their current roster is finals worthy, but not a clear-cut championship team. Add Pierce and KG and that is changed instantly. KG would absolutely waive his clause to play for this kind of team, also having one of his best buds in Pierce going with him.
The Celtics need to learn from the Ray Allen deadline last season, that at the end of the day, a players loyalty is likely only as long as his contract. I would say both KG/Pierce are very loyal in general, but who's to stop them from retiring, leaving us with waaaay to much cap space, and not enough talent to attract the true competitors as FA's?
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If you trade KG, you have to trade Pierce
How about
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2xdfq8
With a 1st coming to Boston and a 1st coming to Cleveland (Boston gets the better of the two)
Boston sheds 14.9 million this season. It puts them 1.4 million under the cap. Buy out Odom (last year at 8 million) and the Celtics probably have enough to offer a two year deal to Oden.
Find takers for Bass and Terry, the Celtics suddenly have young talent, cap space and extra 1sts to build a team around Rondo when he comes back.
That's how Ainge did it the last time.
Yes, I would find this a very hard pill to swallow.
Not convinced they have to be in the same trade.
Probably the only way Kg waives the No Trade Clause.
Not if you traded Paul first in another trade.
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Anyone who would trade the legendary kg for a garbage package of Bledsoe and butler has some issues...this shouldn't even be a debate...yeah let's officially become a bad franchise again for that package? Right...wouldn't do it for Jordan either...sorry
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We held on to The Original Big Three too long, and we lived through a solid decade of horror. This also included the tragedies of both Bias and Lewis. Everyone who is doubting this kind of move is not looking at it from a business perspective.
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Anyone who would trade the legendary kg for a garbage package of Bledsoe and butler has some issues...this shouldn't even be a debate...yeah let's officially become a bad franchise again for that package? Right...wouldn't do it for Jordan either...sorry
Consider the 'hindsight' perspective. Imagine you are in June, 2014 and watching KG's retirment ceremony. The last 2 years have been mediocre (7/8 seed; 1st round out) and KG (insert Pierce too) is now retiring as a Celtic. Will you wish you had traded him (them) for something?
Maybe Bledsoe/Butler isn't enough, maybe Bledsoe/Jordan isn't enough. Anyway, Danny should keep the door open -- perhaps more appealing offers will present themselves.
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If you trade KG, you have to trade Pierce
How about
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2xdfq8
With a 1st coming to Boston and a 1st coming to Cleveland (Boston gets the better of the two)
Boston sheds 14.9 million this season. It puts them 1.4 million under the cap. Buy out Odom (last year at 8 million) and the Celtics probably have enough to offer a two year deal to Oden.
Find takers for Bass and Terry, the Celtics suddenly have young talent, cap space and extra 1sts to build a team around Rondo when he comes back.
That's how Ainge did it the last time.
Yes, I would find this a very hard pill to swallow.
Not convinced they have to be in the same trade.
Of course not. Just more fun to play with.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm18/fedorowiczr/tank%20drawings/South_Park_Characters__Butters_by_Z.jpg)
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I'm saying I don't understand why you think this is a "crazy pipe dream", given that it's an obviously poor trade for the Celtics. Garnett, on his last legs, is likely going to be better than any of those two players will be over the next two or three years.
So you're trading away the best player in the deal, and gaining no cap flexibility in the process. Not sure what the incentive is to do this deal
1. Right now, KG still seems the best player in the deal, but we haven't gotten a chance to see what Bledsoe is like as a full-time starter. If he produces even close to what he did against Boston, say 18 pts and 7 assists a game, he'd already be very close to KG's current level and has the chance to be even better.
2. With his no-trade clause, KG's value in any future deal is automatically lower than either Jordan's or Bledsoe's. KG really doesn't even have any value as an expiring deal unless he's willing to go to some team trying to unload a bad contract.
3. Giving up the best player isn't a big deal when the whole point is that you're not concerned with winning this year. Getting a shot at a top 3 lottery pick might be a better deal than holding onto the 8th playoff spot in the East.
4. If we just hold onto KG until he retires, Boston gets nothing but cap space. Unless you think a rebuilding Celtics team is suddenly going to become vastly more attractive to free agents than it ever has been in the past, players > cap space.
5. Getting Bledsoe allows you to make a future trade of either him or Rondo for another player.
Ultimately, all that matters is what KG wants. If he's willing to accept the trade, it would be crazy to pass on something like Bledsoe and Jordan. Which gets you closer to another title? 2 to 3 years of a continually declining KG with a no-trade clause or 5 to 10 years of Bledsoe and Jordan?
Mike
The fact that Garnett's no-trade clause hurts his trade value isn't a reason to take 50 cents on the dollar for him. I find three years of Garnett more valuable than Jordan's Bird rights three years from now. Bledsoe expires even earlier than this, I think.
Also, the real pipe dream is that Bledsoe is an 18/7 player.
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No way SAC gives up Cousins for Jordan. That is a significant downgrade in talent and a significant upgrade in salary. Maybe this: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=as8h9t6
That's a weird example of a trade in which it looks to me that everyone is committing a daylight robbery. Of course, there's zero chance it will happen, but well done.
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If you trade KG, you have to trade Pierce
How about
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2xdfq8
With a 1st coming to Boston and a 1st coming to Cleveland (Boston gets the better of the two)
Boston sheds 14.9 million this season. It puts them 1.4 million under the cap. Buy out Odom (last year at 8 million) and the Celtics probably have enough to offer a two year deal to Oden.
Find takers for Bass and Terry, the Celtics suddenly have young talent, cap space and extra 1sts to build a team around Rondo when he comes back.
That's how Ainge did it the last time.
Yes, I would find this a very hard pill to swallow.
Not convinced they have to be in the same trade.
Of course not. Just more fun to play with.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm18/fedorowiczr/tank%20drawings/South_Park_Characters__Butters_by_Z.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-raI00KIBers/T-jdNxHBuRI/AAAAAAAAAA4/rRAngfbzi3c/s1600/Cartman.jpg)
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Anyone who would trade the legendary kg for a garbage package of Bledsoe and butler has some issues...this shouldn't even be a debate...yeah let's officially become a bad franchise again for that package? Right...wouldn't do it for Jordan either...sorry
Consider the 'hindsight' perspective. Imagine you are in June, 2014 and watching KG's retirment ceremony. The last 2 years have been mediocre (7/8 seed; 1st round out) and KG (insert Pierce too) is now retiring as a Celtic. Will you wish you had traded him (them) for something?
Maybe Bledsoe/Butler isn't enough, maybe Bledsoe/Jordan isn't enough. Anyway, Danny should keep the door open -- perhaps more appealing offers will present themselves.
I'd rather see kg retire a Celtic then accept a package of butler and Bledsoe...I know most people feel this way about pierce but I'd trade pierce for that package..unless kg is the one actually pushing for the trade I'd tell the clips to pound sand
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I'm saying I don't understand why you think this is a "crazy pipe dream", given that it's an obviously poor trade for the Celtics. Garnett, on his last legs, is likely going to be better than any of those two players will be over the next two or three years.
So you're trading away the best player in the deal, and gaining no cap flexibility in the process. Not sure what the incentive is to do this deal
1. Right now, KG still seems the best player in the deal, but we haven't gotten a chance to see what Bledsoe is like as a full-time starter. If he produces even close to what he did against Boston, say 18 pts and 7 assists a game, he'd already be very close to KG's current level and has the chance to be even better.
2. With his no-trade clause, KG's value in any future deal is automatically lower than either Jordan's or Bledsoe's. KG really doesn't even have any value as an expiring deal unless he's willing to go to some team trying to unload a bad contract.
3. Giving up the best player isn't a big deal when the whole point is that you're not concerned with winning this year. Getting a shot at a top 3 lottery pick might be a better deal than holding onto the 8th playoff spot in the East.
4. If we just hold onto KG until he retires, Boston gets nothing but cap space. Unless you think a rebuilding Celtics team is suddenly going to become vastly more attractive to free agents than it ever has been in the past, players > cap space.
5. Getting Bledsoe allows you to make a future trade of either him or Rondo for another player.
Ultimately, all that matters is what KG wants. If he's willing to accept the trade, it would be crazy to pass on something like Bledsoe and Jordan. Which gets you closer to another title? 2 to 3 years of a continually declining KG with a no-trade clause or 5 to 10 years of Bledsoe and Jordan?
Mike
The fact that Garnett's no-trade clause hurts his trade value isn't a reason to take 50 cents on the dollar for him. I find three years of Garnett more valuable than Jordan's Bird rights three years from now. Bledsoe expires even earlier than this, I think.
Also, the real pipe dream is that Bledsoe is an 18/7 player.
50 cents on the dollar is better than nothing, which is likely all we get if KG simply retires as a Celtic.
And Bledsoe in the last 7 games without Paul is averaging 13 pts, 5.7 assists and 5 rebounds a game.
Mike
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I'm saying I don't understand why you think this is a "crazy pipe dream", given that it's an obviously poor trade for the Celtics. Garnett, on his last legs, is likely going to be better than any of those two players will be over the next two or three years.
So you're trading away the best player in the deal, and gaining no cap flexibility in the process. Not sure what the incentive is to do this deal
1. Right now, KG still seems the best player in the deal, but we haven't gotten a chance to see what Bledsoe is like as a full-time starter. If he produces even close to what he did against Boston, say 18 pts and 7 assists a game, he'd already be very close to KG's current level and has the chance to be even better.
2. With his no-trade clause, KG's value in any future deal is automatically lower than either Jordan's or Bledsoe's. KG really doesn't even have any value as an expiring deal unless he's willing to go to some team trying to unload a bad contract.
3. Giving up the best player isn't a big deal when the whole point is that you're not concerned with winning this year. Getting a shot at a top 3 lottery pick might be a better deal than holding onto the 8th playoff spot in the East.
4. If we just hold onto KG until he retires, Boston gets nothing but cap space. Unless you think a rebuilding Celtics team is suddenly going to become vastly more attractive to free agents than it ever has been in the past, players > cap space.
5. Getting Bledsoe allows you to make a future trade of either him or Rondo for another player.
Ultimately, all that matters is what KG wants. If he's willing to accept the trade, it would be crazy to pass on something like Bledsoe and Jordan. Which gets you closer to another title? 2 to 3 years of a continually declining KG with a no-trade clause or 5 to 10 years of Bledsoe and Jordan?
Mike
The fact that Garnett's no-trade clause hurts his trade value isn't a reason to take 50 cents on the dollar for him. I find three years of Garnett more valuable than Jordan's Bird rights three years from now. Bledsoe expires even earlier than this, I think.
Also, the real pipe dream is that Bledsoe is an 18/7 player.
50 cents on the dollar is better than nothing, which is likely all we get if KG simply retires as a Celtic.
And Bledsoe in the last 7 games without Paul is averaging 13 pts, 5.7 assists and 5 rebounds a game.
Mike
No thanks...No interest in a Bledsoe centerpiece trade for kg...ridiculous
Maybe for pierce
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Would rather have the cap room when Garnett retires than a PG prospect and contract ballast.
The only trades I am interested in are ones that move mid-length contracts (Bass, Terry, Green, Lee) for expirings and chips.
Start the rebuild during/just before the 2014/15 season.
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No thanks...No interest in a Bledsoe centerpiece trade for kg...ridiculous
Maybe for pierce
Who do you think Boston can get for KG, given his age, level of production, salary cap limitations and no-trade clause?
Mike
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If you trade KG, you have to trade Pierce
How about
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b2xdfq8
With a 1st coming to Boston and a 1st coming to Cleveland (Boston gets the better of the two)
Boston sheds 14.9 million this season. It puts them 1.4 million under the cap. Buy out Odom (last year at 8 million) and the Celtics probably have enough to offer a two year deal to Oden.
Find takers for Bass and Terry, the Celtics suddenly have young talent, cap space and extra 1sts to build a team around Rondo when he comes back.
That's how Ainge did it the last time.
Yes, I would find this a very hard pill to swallow.
Utah never makes that trade.
Why?
They improve their lineup
Bledseo
Lee
Pierce
Millsap
Jefferson
with a bench of
Foye'
Carrol
Marvin Williams
Kantor.
That team can contend.
THey aren't giving up Favors and Hayward in that trade. If you swapped out Favors for Milsap or Jefferson, they may do it, but no guarantee. That isn't a team that is win now mode so Pierce doesn't help them and while Bledsoe is a nice prospect, he isn't a better prospect than Hayward and is no where near the prospect of Favors.
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No thanks...No interest in a Bledsoe centerpiece trade for kg...ridiculous
Maybe for pierce
Who do you think Boston can get for KG, given his age, level of production, salary cap limitations and no-trade clause?
Mike
I think the question is less about who you can get for KG, but more about whether it is actually worth trading KG. Keeping KG around can have a tremendous value for this team, both on the court, as he is still a very good player, but also in the development of the young guys.
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Would rather have the cap room when Garnett retires than a PG prospect and contract ballast.
The only trades I am interested in are ones that move mid-length contracts (Bass, Terry, Green, Lee) for expirings and chips.
Start the rebuild during/just before the 2014/15 season.
Boston won't have cap room thanks to the garbage that is Green, Bass, Lee, and Terry.
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No thanks...No interest in a Bledsoe centerpiece trade for kg...ridiculous
Maybe for pierce
Who do you think Boston can get for KG, given his age, level of production, salary cap limitations and no-trade clause?
Mike
If you can't get anything, then maybe it's ok not to trade him, you know.
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Would rather have the cap room when Garnett retires than a PG prospect and contract ballast.
The only trades I am interested in are ones that move mid-length contracts (Bass, Terry, Green, Lee) for expirings and chips.
Start the rebuild during/just before the 2014/15 season.
In the Celtics recent history, young players + trade ballast have played a huge role in our success, while cap room has never played a noticeable factor.
I don't understand why you'd prefer cap room.
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Would rather have the cap room when Garnett retires than a PG prospect and contract ballast.
The only trades I am interested in are ones that move mid-length contracts (Bass, Terry, Green, Lee) for expirings and chips.
Start the rebuild during/just before the 2014/15 season.
In the Celtics recent history, young players + trade ballast have played a huge role in our success, while cap room has never played a noticeable factor.
I don't understand why you'd prefer cap room.
With the new CBA in effect, cap room is highly prized. Cleveland was recently able to turn some of its cap room into three tradeable assets and a 1st rounder.
Cap room is not just for signing free agents.
It will take some doing to get that cap space, though. The mid-length contracts I mentioned will complicate things. Ainge needs to determine which of the current personnel are building blocks for the future, and jettison the others.
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No thanks...No interest in a Bledsoe centerpiece trade for kg...ridiculous
Maybe for pierce
Who do you think Boston can get for KG, given his age, level of production, salary cap limitations and no-trade clause?
Mike
If you can't get anything, then maybe it's ok not to trade him, you know.
Bledsoe and Jordan are something. They're more than just something. Right now, Jordan is better than any big on the Celtics other than KG. Even when healthy, I don't think you could say Sully was better than Jordan. Right now, Bledsoe is better than any PG on the Celtics other than Rondo and you could make an argument he'd be a better 2 guard than anyone currently on Boston's roster.
If you'd rather KG just retire as a Celtic, that's not an indefensible position. I'd rather that than trade him for either Bledsoe-Butler or Bledsoe-Odom. But if you recognize that trading KG is probably in the best long-term interests of the team and that the possible trades you could make are severely limited, Bledsoe-Jordan would not only be a pretty good swap, it very likely is the best possible trade to be made.
Mike
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Wow, I just looked at Jordan's contract.
Once he's traded, and his 15% trade kicker activates, he'll be owed more money through 2014/15 than KG will.
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Wow, I just looked at Jordan's contract.
Once he's traded, and his 15% trade kicker activates, he'll be owed more money through 2014/15 than KG will.
ouch. probably kills that trade idea. they aren't going to want to pay him that much.
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No thanks...No interest in a Bledsoe centerpiece trade for kg...ridiculous
Maybe for pierce
Who do you think Boston can get for KG, given his age, level of production, salary cap limitations and no-trade clause?
Mike
If you can't get anything, then maybe it's ok not to trade him, you know.
Bledsoe and Jordan are something. They're more than just something. Right now, Jordan is better than any big on the Celtics other than KG. Even when healthy, I don't think you could say Sully was better than Jordan. Right now, Bledsoe is better than any PG on the Celtics other than Rondo and you could make an argument he'd be a better 2 guard than anyone currently on Boston's roster.
If you'd rather KG just retire as a Celtic, that's not an indefensible position. I'd rather that than trade him for either Bledsoe-Butler or Bledsoe-Odom. But if you recognize that trading KG is probably in the best long-term interests of the team and that the possible trades you could make are severely limited, Bledsoe-Jordan would not only be a pretty good swap, it very likely is the best possible trade to be made.
Mike
Yes Jordan would be the best big after KG but considering the quality of the Celtics bigs after KG, that doesn't say much. Jordan's a quality big but trading KG means a full rebuild right now, which means trading Pierce and Terry too and in that scenario, Jordan being the best big and making a hair less than Rondo doesn't seem all that appealing.
It's too late in the season to just go blow a team up. For missing the playoffs and not getting a top lottery pick (nevermind this draft is pretty weak), the trade returns have to super attractive and Bledsoe and Jordan just aren't. You don't trade someone like KG just to get anything you can for him. Further, this team is really fun to watch now that the ball isn't being dominated in one guy's hands. It's also still really talented.
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No thanks...No interest in a Bledsoe centerpiece trade for kg...ridiculous
Maybe for pierce
Who do you think Boston can get for KG, given his age, level of production, salary cap limitations and no-trade clause?
Mike
Nothing worthy of trading him for...rather kg be here until he retires then trade him for mediocre talent...I feel it much more about him then pierce...I know people get caught up in wanting pierce to be a career long Celtic...that means nothing to me..he was on the worst Celtic teams ever until kg turned around the franchise with Garnett leading the ball club we can make noise..without him we're back to the 20 year drought..a Bledsoe doesn't change the future positively in any way so I'll take my chances enjoying watching kg
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No thanks...No interest in a Bledsoe centerpiece trade for kg...ridiculous
Maybe for pierce
Who do you think Boston can get for KG, given his age, level of production, salary cap limitations and no-trade clause?
Mike
Nothing worthy of trading him for...rather kg be here until he retires
Even if it is this summer?
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Bledsoe and Jordan are something. They're more than just something. Right now, Jordan is better than any big on the Celtics other than KG. Even when healthy, I don't think you could say Sully was better than Jordan. Right now, Bledsoe is better than any PG on the Celtics other than Rondo and you could make an argument he'd be a better 2 guard than anyone currently on Boston's roster.
Jordan is also paid more than any big on the Celtics other than KG. As a matter of fact, he's owed approximately as much as KG, and for as many years.
That Bledsoe is better than a crop that includes three shooting guards and Avery Bradley, that's more or less a foregone conclusion. He may or may not pan out, but he's been pretty dreadful in a small sample of games as a starter this season.
If you'd rather KG just retire as a Celtic, that's not an indefensible position. I'd rather that than trade him for either Bledsoe-Butler or Bledsoe-Odom. But if you recognize that trading KG is probably in the best long-term interests of the team and that the possible trades you could make are severely limited, Bledsoe-Jordan would not only be a pretty good swap, it very likely is the best possible trade to be made.
The case in point is, three years from now you still have pretty much nothing (unless of course you find Bledsoe and Jordan to be a long-term solution, which I don't). The question is, would you like three years of Jordan or three years of Garnett. And I think it's not much of a question.
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Pls do not trade for Bledsoe. I just saw him up close last night - poor decision making and I was surprised at how slow he is. More importantly, he is 6'1" on a good day and probably wearing inserts. Trade Rondo.
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Time to rename this thread?
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-clippers-garnett-20130204,0,5007341.story
The Clippers are not pursuing Boston Celtics center Kevin Garnett despite what has been reported, according to NBA officials who were not authorized to speak publicly on the matter.
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Would rather have the cap room when Garnett retires than a PG prospect and contract ballast.
The only trades I am interested in are ones that move mid-length contracts (Bass, Terry, Green, Lee) for expirings and chips.
Start the rebuild during/just before the 2014/15 season.
That's not how trades usually work. Normally, you trade a contract you don't want and useful assets such as picks or young players for an expiring contract.
It would make more sense to hang on to Bass and Terry until the 2014 off-season, when they become expiring contracts with a year left on their deals.
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Time to rename this thread?
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-clippers-garnett-20130204,0,5007341.story
The Clippers are not pursuing Boston Celtics center Kevin Garnett despite what has been reported, according to NBA officials who were not authorized to speak publicly on the matter.
NBA Officials in charge of basketball reasons. ;D
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Lucky17- Thanks for pointing out the trade kicker. That extra 2 million is actually significant
kozlodoev- the "50 cents on the dollar" line has me interested. What is 100 cents for Garnett (keeping age and contract in mind). There are some young rebuilding teams like the Bobcats or the Cavs for whom he is not worth a 1st round draft pick. To a contender, though, he is obviously valuable. So how much should KG be worth, hypothetically, to the clippers, lakers, nuggets, thunder, knicks, spurs, jazz, griz, heat, bulls, <celtics?>, etc?
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Shaun Powell tweeting that KG will lift his no trade clause only if he's sent to LA.
Told Kevin Garnett will not waive no trade unless Pierce is dealt, and then only to LA. Lives in Malibu.
https://twitter.com/Powell2daPeople
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Shaun Powell tweeting that KG will lift his no trade clause only if he's sent to LA.
Told Kevin Garnett will not waive no trade unless Pierce is dealt, and then only to LA. Lives in Malibu.
https://twitter.com/Powell2daPeople
Big piece of news right there. Hopefully Ainge doesn't trade Pierce for next to nothing just so he can then deal KG.
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Pierce or Garnett will not be traded
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Lucky17- Thanks for pointing out the trade kicker. That extra 2 million is actually significant
kozlodoev- the "50 cents on the dollar" line has me interested. What is 100 cents for Garnett (keeping age and contract in mind). There are some young rebuilding teams like the Bobcats or the Cavs for whom he is not worth a 1st round draft pick. To a contender, though, he is obviously valuable. So how much should KG be worth, hypothetically, to the clippers, lakers, nuggets, thunder, knicks, spurs, jazz, griz, heat, bulls, <celtics?>, etc?
The problem is how much is he worth to us -- his "market price" may be determined by what other teams are willing to pay us, but his value to the Celtics isn't. And there is no reason to trade him unless the former is reasonably close to the latter.
That's why I'm saying it's ok not to trade him. The problem is no-one is going to give you a reasonably good big man for Garnett, and I'm not interested in bringing in another guard. I feel like we should be exploring trades for Rondo instead.
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Pierce or Garnett will not be traded
I had a bad feeling that DA is trying to keep Rondo(I do not no why???) and to trade KG or PP
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No thanks...No interest in a Bledsoe centerpiece trade for kg...ridiculous
Maybe for pierce
Who do you think Boston can get for KG, given his age, level of production, salary cap limitations and no-trade clause?
Mike
Nothing worthy of trading him for...rather kg be here until he retires
Even if it is this summer?
Fair question... and if the package is only Bledsoe/Butler then yep even if it was this summerr
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Pierce or Garnett will not be traded
I had a bad feeling that DA is trying to keep Rondo(I do not no why???) and to trade KG or PP
Simple:
At this point DA can't trade Rondo bc of his injury.
The ideal time to trade Pierce and or KG is now before they get older and slower or injured.
The Cs have a low probability of contending this year. So At this point I'd be fine with a trade involving either of those guys if DA thought it would make the Cs better in the long term.
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DA isn't trading either......lol we have no bigs now and note much for shooter, a sorry point guard that can't shoots a free throw , a bunch of short guards....unless a serious big is I the deal , Kevin love, Howard , ect..... not a chance. they are traded this year.
Trade Rondo and bass for uncle Drew.
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This is from Shaun Powell (@Powell2daPeople):
"Told Kevin Garnett will not waive no trade unless Pierce is dealt, and then only to LA. Lives in Malibu."
We know the Malibu part. The interesting (albeit, unsubstantiated) part is KG's willingness to waive no trade only if Pierce is shipped out too.
Regardless of the veracity of this info, I think if KG really thinks the Cs future will be better off with a deal involving him, he'll waive.
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http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
I would do this.
After trade you have:
Lee/Foye/Barbosa
Bradley/Terry
Green/Butler
Millsap/Wilcox
Jefferson/Collins/Melo
Next year resign Millsap and Big Al. Rondo and Sully are back. Ainge steal someone good in a draft. Package Terry, Melo, Butler expiring and few draft picks for some impact player (sign&trade for J.Smith.
In 2013/14 you have:
Rondo (27)
Bradley (23)
Smith (28)
Millsap (28)
Jefferson (28)
and bench Green (27), Lee (28), Sullinger (21), MLE , draft pick.
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How about we give them Bass? Lol
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https://twitter.com/SeanDeveney/status/298127958336479232 (https://twitter.com/SeanDeveney/status/298127958336479232)
According to Sean Deveney on twitter, The Clippers have inquired about KG for Butler & Bledsoe.
Don't get me wrong I like Bledsoe but him and Caron Butler for KG?
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQcW8IQuZLVaR0tCC9Vs4JMUA_SoK9exIKN5nXHBneY7iqik7P)
(IMO)