Tennis Thread

[Moranis]

Novak took a tough 4 setter from Nadal in the semis and started off slow against the young up and comer Tsitsipas in the French Final, falling down 2 sets to 0, before dominating the last 3 sets to win his 2nd French.  He now has 19, one behind Nadal and Federer.  He also is just the 3rd person in history to win at least 2 of each grand slam (Rod Laver and Roy Emerson).  He will be the heavy favorite at Wimbledon, which if he wins will not only tie him for the most all time, but put him from just the US Open away from the calendar year slam something that hasn't been done since Laver.

[Goldstar88]

Novak took a tough 4 setter from Nadal in the semis and started off slow against the young up and comer Tsitsipas in the French Final, falling down 2 sets to 0, before dominating the last 3 sets to win his 2nd French.  He now has 19, one behind Nadal and Federer.  He also is just the 3rd person in history to win at least 2 of each grand slam (Rod Laver and Roy Emerson).  He will be the heavy favorite at Wimbledon, which if he wins will not only tie him for the most all time, but put him from just the US Open away from the calendar year slam something that hasn't been done since Laver.

TP for the post, Moranis. The Djokovic/Rafa match on Friday was one of the best matches I’ve ever seen. I don’t think many appreciate how elite those two athletes are, playing a 5.5 hour match like that ... I saw Rafa play on Ashe at the US open a few years back in a 5+hr match. Nadal lost In the 5th set tiebreak and it was one of the most incredible sporting events that I’ve experienced live. That stadium is modern day coliseum, packed with 24k fans. Place was electric.

I’m not a fan of Novak, however, if he does finish his career at least tied with Roger and Rafa for the most majors and has the head to head advantage vs those two, I’m not sure how anyone can dispute that he’s the greatest men’s tennis player of all time.

[Kernewek]

Time to stop whistling past the graveyard... Tennis, like pretty much any other sport, has a big PED problem. There was a time when the men noticeably started declining at 30, and the women much earlier. There was something like a physical speed limit on dominance; no one, however great, could defy the laws of biology, which was a great equalizer. Those days are gone, and what you’re left with is a situation where those that truly distinguish themselves are not just the ones who have mastered their craft, but have (along with their trainers and doctors) also mastered the new sciences of performance. I know a lot of people don’t care about this, but I do. It’s getting ridiculous.

This is probably 20-30% true, but I'm not sure it's as simple as saying "these all-time greats are hoarding all the best PEDs for themselves", rather than wondering about why the next generation of great tennis players never really broke through:

Dominic Thiem is the only men's player born in the 90's to have won a single Grand Slam.  Up until last year's US Open, only three players born in the 90's had even made it to the Finals:
2016 Wimbledon: Milos Raonic
2018 French Open: Dominic Thiem
2019 US Open: Daniil Medvedev
(There's an asterisk here: in that Kei Nishikori made it to the 2014 US Open finals and he was born on December 29th, 1989, so he very nearly counts)


Obviously the 2020 US Open was between Thiem and Zverev, but that is very much the exception, not the rule.

To put it in more wild perspective: a woman born in the 2000's won a Grand Slam before a man born in the 90's did.

The Big 3 have won 59 of the past 70 Grand Slams (including Wimbledon 2020, which was cancelled due to COVID). By the end of the year it could very easily be 61 of 72. That's absolutely insane, and you can't put it all down to PEDs.

[Moranis]

Time to stop whistling past the graveyard... Tennis, like pretty much any other sport, has a big PED problem. There was a time when the men noticeably started declining at 30, and the women much earlier. There was something like a physical speed limit on dominance; no one, however great, could defy the laws of biology, which was a great equalizer. Those days are gone, and what you’re left with is a situation where those that truly distinguish themselves are not just the ones who have mastered their craft, but have (along with their trainers and doctors) also mastered the new sciences of performance. I know a lot of people don’t care about this, but I do. It’s getting ridiculous.

This is probably 20-30% true, but I'm not sure it's as simple as saying "these all-time greats are hoarding all the best PEDs for themselves", rather than wondering about why the next generation of great tennis players never really broke through:

Dominic Thiem is the only men's player born in the 90's to have won a single Grand Slam.  Up until last year's US Open, only three players born in the 90's had even made it to the Finals:
2016 Wimbledon: Milos Raonic
2018 French Open: Dominic Thiem
2019 US Open: Daniil Medvedev
(There's an asterisk here: in that Kei Nishikori made it to the 2014 US Open finals and he was born on December 29th, 1989, so he very nearly counts)


Obviously the 2020 US Open was between Thiem and Zverev, but that is very much the exception, not the rule.

To put it in more wild perspective: a woman born in the 2000's won a Grand Slam before a man born in the 90's did.

The Big 3 have won 59 of the past 70 Grand Slams (including Wimbledon 2020, which was cancelled due to COVID). By the end of the year it could very easily be 61 of 72. That's absolutely insane, and you can't put it all down to PEDs.

Especially when presumably the younger guys are also using them at the same rate as the older guys.  I mean even if you assume that Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic are all using PED's (and that is obviously a huge assumption), why wouldn't you also make that assumption with the Tsitspas of the world?

It just seems to me that American's and many of the other formerly great tennis producing countries, have just lost interest in the sport and haven't developed any real challengers.  That isn't to say those 3 are legitimately great, they are, but they can also hang around because there quite simply hasn't been anyone to remove them. 

[Celtics4ever]

I think it has been that way for the majority of my adult life.

[slamtheking]

Time to stop whistling past the graveyard... Tennis, like pretty much any other sport, has a big PED problem. There was a time when the men noticeably started declining at 30, and the women much earlier. There was something like a physical speed limit on dominance; no one, however great, could defy the laws of biology, which was a great equalizer. Those days are gone, and what you’re left with is a situation where those that truly distinguish themselves are not just the ones who have mastered their craft, but have (along with their trainers and doctors) also mastered the new sciences of performance. I know a lot of people don’t care about this, but I do. It’s getting ridiculous.

This is probably 20-30% true, but I'm not sure it's as simple as saying "these all-time greats are hoarding all the best PEDs for themselves", rather than wondering about why the next generation of great tennis players never really broke through:

Dominic Thiem is the only men's player born in the 90's to have won a single Grand Slam.  Up until last year's US Open, only three players born in the 90's had even made it to the Finals:
2016 Wimbledon: Milos Raonic
2018 French Open: Dominic Thiem
2019 US Open: Daniil Medvedev
(There's an asterisk here: in that Kei Nishikori made it to the 2014 US Open finals and he was born on December 29th, 1989, so he very nearly counts)


Obviously the 2020 US Open was between Thiem and Zverev, but that is very much the exception, not the rule.

To put it in more wild perspective: a woman born in the 2000's won a Grand Slam before a man born in the 90's did.

The Big 3 have won 59 of the past 70 Grand Slams (including Wimbledon 2020, which was cancelled due to COVID). By the end of the year it could very easily be 61 of 72. That's absolutely insane, and you can't put it all down to PEDs.

Especially when presumably the younger guys are also using them at the same rate as the older guys.  I mean even if you assume that Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic are all using PED's (and that is obviously a huge assumption), why wouldn't you also make that assumption with the Tsitspas of the world?

It just seems to me that American's and many of the other formerly great tennis producing countries, have just lost interest in the sport and haven't developed any real challengers.  That isn't to say those 3 are legitimately great, they are, but they can also hang around because there quite simply hasn't been anyone to remove them.

you can say this about any American sport to be honest.  Lack of quality players in many sports is allowing older players to hang around the game as well as allowing the lowering of the quality of the various sports in general.

[Walker Wiggle]

Time to stop whistling past the graveyard... Tennis, like pretty much any other sport, has a big PED problem. There was a time when the men noticeably started declining at 30, and the women much earlier. There was something like a physical speed limit on dominance; no one, however great, could defy the laws of biology, which was a great equalizer. Those days are gone, and what you’re left with is a situation where those that truly distinguish themselves are not just the ones who have mastered their craft, but have (along with their trainers and doctors) also mastered the new sciences of performance. I know a lot of people don’t care about this, but I do. It’s getting ridiculous.

This is probably 20-30% true, but I'm not sure it's as simple as saying "these all-time greats are hoarding all the best PEDs for themselves", rather than wondering about why the next generation of great tennis players never really broke through:

Dominic Thiem is the only men's player born in the 90's to have won a single Grand Slam.  Up until last year's US Open, only three players born in the 90's had even made it to the Finals:
2016 Wimbledon: Milos Raonic
2018 French Open: Dominic Thiem
2019 US Open: Daniil Medvedev
(There's an asterisk here: in that Kei Nishikori made it to the 2014 US Open finals and he was born on December 29th, 1989, so he very nearly counts)


Obviously the 2020 US Open was between Thiem and Zverev, but that is very much the exception, not the rule.

To put it in more wild perspective: a woman born in the 2000's won a Grand Slam before a man born in the 90's did.

The Big 3 have won 59 of the past 70 Grand Slams (including Wimbledon 2020, which was cancelled due to COVID). By the end of the year it could very easily be 61 of 72. That's absolutely insane, and you can't put it all down to PEDs.

Especially when presumably the younger guys are also using them at the same rate as the older guys.  I mean even if you assume that Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic are all using PED's (and that is obviously a huge assumption), why wouldn't you also make that assumption with the Tsitspas of the world?

It just seems to me that American's and many of the other formerly great tennis producing countries, have just lost interest in the sport and haven't developed any real challengers.  That isn't to say those 3 are legitimately great, they are, but they can also hang around because there quite simply hasn't been anyone to remove them.

you can say this about any American sport to be honest.  Lack of quality players in many sports is allowing older players to hang around the game as well as allowing the lowering of the quality of the various sports in general.

Totally agree that the PED problem is not unique to tennis. Basically all sports leagues -- with the possible exception of the Olympics, if you consider that a league -- is giving the outward facade of caring about the issue, but in reality welcoming it.

The way PEDs create small pools of dominant players is because it can have cumulative effects. So, for instance, a guy who's been doping for 15 years and is in his mid-30s could very well have an advantage over a similarly-skilled player in his early 20s who just started using.

[nickagneta]

You have to be an amazing athlete to succeed at tennis. Much respect to them, but my Lord do I find it to be a boring sport and extremely difficult to watch.

[Goldstar88]

You have to be an amazing athlete to succeed at tennis. Much respect to them, but my Lord do I find it to be a boring sport and extremely difficult to watch.

It can be boring, but that depends entirely on the matchup. Some of the big servers, like Isner, who hit the ball 140mph on their first serve and have 2-3 hit rallies are not fun to watch at all.

Try to tune in for the quarters or Semi’s of Wimbledon or another major tournament. Watch Federer, Nadal and Djokovic play against each other or some of the other top 10 players in the world. It’s a different game.

[Moranis]

Novak lost the 1st set today at Wimbledon, but then cruised.  Big upset though as 3rd seed Stefanos Tsitsipas lost in straight sets to American Frances Tiafoe. On the women's side American Sloane Stephens upset 2 time champ Petra Kvitova in straight sets.

[Goldstar88]

Novak lost the 1st set today at Wimbledon, but then cruised.  Big upset though as 3rd seed Stefanos Tsitsipas lost in straight sets to American Frances Tiafoe. On the women's side American Sloane Stephens upset 2 time champ Petra Kvitova in straight sets.

That was a huge upset...Frances certainly is a dangerous player. Watching the Murray match now, hoping he doesn’t choke. 

[Moranis]

Federer got blitzed today going out in straight sets to 14th seed Hubert Hurkacz.  Novak breezed into the Semis.  He will face 10th seeded Canadian Denis Sharpovalov who is in his first major semi-final.   Hurkacz will face 7th seeded Matteo Berrettini.  In other words, if Novak does not win the title he will be beaten by someone who may very well pull off the biggest upset in tennis history (given the totality of the circumstances). 

[Goldstar88]

Novak Djokovic is advancing to the Wimbledon final. Brought his B game today and still won easily in straight sets. Final will be Sunday morning and If Djokovic wins, he will tie Federer and Nadal for the most majors of all time with 20.

[Redz]

You have to be an amazing athlete to succeed at tennis. Much respect to them, but my Lord do I find it to be a boring sport and extremely difficult to watch.

It can be boring, but that depends entirely on the matchup. Some of the big servers, like Isner, who hit the ball 140mph on their first serve and have 2-3 hit rallies are not fun to watch at all.

Try to tune in for the quarters or Semi’s of Wimbledon or another major tournament. Watch Federer, Nadal and Djokovic play against each other or some of the other top 10 players in the world. It’s a different game.

You have to be an amazing athlete to succeed at tennis. Much respect to them, but my Lord do I find it to be a boring sport and extremely difficult to watch.

Women's tennis is often better to watch for that reason.

[Moranis]

You have to be an amazing athlete to succeed at tennis. Much respect to them, but my Lord do I find it to be a boring sport and extremely difficult to watch.

It can be boring, but that depends entirely on the matchup. Some of the big servers, like Isner, who hit the ball 140mph on their first serve and have 2-3 hit rallies are not fun to watch at all.

Try to tune in for the quarters or Semi’s of Wimbledon or another major tournament. Watch Federer, Nadal and Djokovic play against each other or some of the other top 10 players in the world. It’s a different game.

You have to be an amazing athlete to succeed at tennis. Much respect to them, but my Lord do I find it to be a boring sport and extremely difficult to watch.

Women's tennis is often better to watch for that reason.

It may very well be the only sport where the viewing experience is comparable if not better for the women's game.