Author Topic: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner  (Read 6931 times)

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Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2021, 02:45:35 PM »

Offline greg683x

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Windhorst on his podcast noted that Simmons has already received 25% of his salary, and is due another 25% in October around the start of training camp.  Will be interesting to see what club decides to do with that payment if Simmons refuses to report to camp.  Do they withhold it? Put it in escrow?  They have the right to penalize him a daily amount, but does that enable them to withhold the entire 2nd installment?

BTW, Lebron gets 50% of his salary in July.   The best players get a lot of their salary up front.  Found this very interesting. I thought they all just got their paychecks with the start of the season.

They would have a very difficult time withholding more than the amount they’re allowed to fine him for missing the first few days of training camp.

Also, as a reminder, anything they fine Simmons goes to charity, so the Sixers are still out the money either way.

Owners would be wise to change that next CBA.  They probably never thought through the consequences of a max player refusing to show up.


I wonder if there is a difference between fines that he would get for conduct detrimental to the team, not showing up to media events, etc and outright withholding of game checks due to breach of contract for not providing his service

They might not have to donate that to charity, someone’s gotta be asking that question and it would make a huge difference in how they would handle this I would imagine
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Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2021, 02:55:34 PM »

Online Celtics2021

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Windhorst on his podcast noted that Simmons has already received 25% of his salary, and is due another 25% in October around the start of training camp.  Will be interesting to see what club decides to do with that payment if Simmons refuses to report to camp.  Do they withhold it? Put it in escrow?  They have the right to penalize him a daily amount, but does that enable them to withhold the entire 2nd installment?

BTW, Lebron gets 50% of his salary in July.   The best players get a lot of their salary up front.  Found this very interesting. I thought they all just got their paychecks with the start of the season.

They would have a very difficult time withholding more than the amount they’re allowed to fine him for missing the first few days of training camp.

Also, as a reminder, anything they fine Simmons goes to charity, so the Sixers are still out the money either way.

Owners would be wise to change that next CBA.  They probably never thought through the consequences of a max player refusing to show up.


I wonder if there is a difference between fines that he would get for conduct detrimental to the team, not showing up to media events, etc and outright withholding of game checks due to breach of contract for not providing his service

They might not have to donate that to charity, someone’s gotta be asking that question and it would make a huge difference in how they would handle this I would imagine

Per CBAFAQ, fines and/or missed game checks due to suspensions all go to charity.  I believe the Sixers/NBA would have to suspend Simmons for not showing up, as opposed to merely withholding the money.  Also, each game suspended isn't 1/82nd of his salary, but 1/110th (if 20+ games) or 1/145th of his salary if under 20 games.

Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2021, 03:47:48 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I think the conversation around "The Process" is silly. Philly didn't do anything different than what OKC is doing now or what Orlando did starting in 2012. And they're no different than the Cavs tanking for Lebron, the Celtics tanking for Duncan, or the Rockets tanking for Hakeem.

The only real difference is the branding. It wasn't just tanking, it was The Process. Giving it a name gave sports media something to jabber about and a way to pretend it was different in some way than any other team tanking when it really wasn't.
SEA/OKC did it in 2007 as well and then full on tanked for 2.5 seasons.  They literally did the exact same thing as the Sixers.  They just got better players in the draft that were more immediately ready to play (i.e. Durant, Green, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka).  But if you compare the moves, they made the same type of moves i.e. selling off veterans, loading up on draft picks, and not signing anyone in free agency.  But because Durant immediately played (and was actually good) it just didn't really alter the perception of the team like drafting Embiid did for the Sixers.

Don't know how tin-foil-y we want to get here but it's not a terrible leap to imagine that Seattle's post-Schultz ownership had a vested interest in making the team not very good (to better facilitate moving to OKC)
Or they just wanted to go all in and build around Durant so getting the 5th pick for Ray Allen just made a lot of sense.  And once you do that trade, following it up over the next couple of seasons just makes perfect sense.
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Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2021, 04:12:03 PM »

Offline nebist

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It's not that The Process was any worse than the other massive tank jobs brought up here. It's just that it was more smug and self-righteous while being equally ineffective.

Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2021, 04:19:09 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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i am curious as to why some posters here clearly take the side of owners over players in terms of money (which owners have a lot more of), control over the league rules (which owners have a lot more of), and movement of players (which owners have a lot more of).

simply because owners have long had so much control over the movement and contracts of players is not automatically a good reason to continue this practice.
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Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2021, 04:26:53 PM »

Offline SDceltGuy

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i am curious as to why some posters here clearly take the side of owners over players in terms of money (which owners have a lot more of), control over the league rules (which owners have a lot more of), and movement of players (which owners have a lot more of).

simply because owners have long had so much control over the movement and contracts of players is not automatically a good reason to continue this practice.

Fans interests are more aligned with the owners.  Owners generally have team interests/winning as top priority - players have their own interest as top priority.  Simple as that. 

Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2021, 04:49:36 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Everyone knows Paul should be banned for tampering but they won't touch him because of LeBron

Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2021, 04:55:20 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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i am curious as to why some posters here clearly take the side of owners over players in terms of money (which owners have a lot more of), control over the league rules (which owners have a lot more of), and movement of players (which owners have a lot more of).

simply because owners have long had so much control over the movement and contracts of players is not automatically a good reason to continue this practice.

Fans interests are more aligned with the owners.  Owners generally have team interests/winning as top priority - players have their own interest as top priority.  Simple as that.
my personal take on it is the looking at the NBA as a corporation with a multitude of office locations.  when you're first hired, you go where you're told to go.  if you don't like it, find another corporation or career.   if openings come up in the organization that are better paying or better located and you can get that position, you should be allowed to take that option.  NBA is run just like that with the exception of contractual restrictions where you've agreed to play where you signed the deal.  Players should be required to honor those agreements.  also, in corporations, you're sometimes required to go to a new location to fill needs at that location.  you can always quit and go to another corporation or just suck it up and move to keep your job.

no sympathy for whining players who will make more in their lifetimes with just getting league minimum deals than about 95% of the rest of the population.

Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2021, 09:21:46 PM »

Online Big333223

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I might have to drastically lower my hatred for the 76ers if they put their foot down here and make Ben forfeit $250k a game.

This is a great opportunity for NBA teams to send a message to the players

I was thinking along these lines. I'll generally side with players but what is Simmons complaint, exactly? I don't even know.

I have no problem with someone asking for a trade but just refusing to show up to work for no good reason is bad. Philly should just start taking money away and see how long it lasts.
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Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2021, 10:43:41 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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He could have just practiced more.
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Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #55 on: September 26, 2021, 12:07:31 AM »

Offline Kuberski33

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i am curious as to why some posters here clearly take the side of owners over players in terms of money (which owners have a lot more of), control over the league rules (which owners have a lot more of), and movement of players (which owners have a lot more of).

simply because owners have long had so much control over the movement and contracts of players is not automatically a good reason to continue this practice.
Easy, I have more respect for the owners.  Players have too much power and they're pampered. Its the owners who seem to care more about the paying customers.  I get the impression that the players have next to zero respect for the folks who pay their own money to watch them perform.

Also I've got more respect for a guy who's made it to the top of the business world than I do any athlete.

Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #56 on: September 26, 2021, 03:35:27 PM »

Online Big333223

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i am curious as to why some posters here clearly take the side of owners over players in terms of money (which owners have a lot more of), control over the league rules (which owners have a lot more of), and movement of players (which owners have a lot more of).

simply because owners have long had so much control over the movement and contracts of players is not automatically a good reason to continue this practice.
Easy, I have more respect for the owners.  Players have too much power and they're pampered. Its the owners who seem to care more about the paying customers.  I get the impression that the players have next to zero respect for the folks who pay their own money to watch them perform.

Also I've got more respect for a guy who's made it to the top of the business world than I do any athlete.
So the owners don't have enough power and live hard-scrabble lives, is that it?
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Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #57 on: September 26, 2021, 05:52:56 PM »

Online liam

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i am curious as to why some posters here clearly take the side of owners over players in terms of money (which owners have a lot more of), control over the league rules (which owners have a lot more of), and movement of players (which owners have a lot more of).

simply because owners have long had so much control over the movement and contracts of players is not automatically a good reason to continue this practice.
Easy, I have more respect for the owners.  Players have too much power and they're pampered. Its the owners who seem to care more about the paying customers.  I get the impression that the players have next to zero respect for the folks who pay their own money to watch them perform.

Also I've got more respect for a guy who's made it to the top of the business world than I do any athlete.
So the owners don't have enough power and live hard-scrabble lives, is that it?

The owners need a go fund me page.  :'(

Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #58 on: September 30, 2021, 11:32:27 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Embid kind of goes after ben here (in a very pc way) and laments the loss of butler. I don’t think there is a chance in heck Ben ecer rejoins the team at this point. https://www.libertyballers.com/2021/9/30/22702777/joel-embiid-ben-simmons-trade-report-sixers

Re: Ben and Rich Paul backed into a corner
« Reply #59 on: October 01, 2021, 06:00:19 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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I'm not sure if I'd classify it as "kind of". I think it's safe to say he definitely went after him:

Quote
. Like I said, it is disappointing, but I feel like over the years the way our team has been built around. You look at last year, you’ve got the whole starting lineup, I was the worst three-point shooter in the starting lineup and I shot 38 percent from three. We’ve always had shooters and I feel like I can really play with anybody, and I can make anybody be better on the court. I don’t necessarily need shooters, but I feel like over the years, you look at when we signed Al, it’s because we needed a stretch five, just to make sure that was there.

Most of my career I’ve had to step out to the three-point line, which I don’t mind. I like to be a basketball player. I like to do everything on the basketball court, but I feel like our teams have been built — whether it’s the shooting needed, a stretch five — I feel like he’s always had it here — and we still have it. You’ve got Seth, one of the best three-point shooters ever, Danny Green, Tobias [Harris] is a 40 percent shooter for his career, Furkan [Korkmaz] coming off the bench, at times, Shake [Milton], I think he can be a better shooter but he can get hot. We just added Georges [Niang].

So I feel like our teams have always been built around his needs. It’s kind of surprising to see, for him to say that. Even going back to the reason we signed Al … we got rid of Jimmy [Butler] which I still think it was a mistake … [Simmons] needed the ball in his hands, and that’s the decision they made. Like I said, it is surprising, but I’m really focused on the guys that are here.

The situation is weird, disappointing, borderline kind of disrespectful to all the guys that are out here fighting for their lives. Some guys rely on the team to be successful to stay in the league and make money somehow. Because if you’re on a winning team you’re always going to have a spot in the league just because you’re on a winning team and you contributed.

But I also don't think Embiid is wrong. Even then, he does say they're a better team with Simmons, which is true. But as a human being, coworker, and teammate... yeah I think he's (rightly) pretty p---ed off.
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