Stats on Our Record/Performance With and Without JB 2020-Present

[GreenlyGreeny]

Has anybody done the legwork of figuring out our team performance when most everyone is healthy (or at least JT/JB) relative to our performance when JB is not healthy (but JT is)? Thinking 2020-present, but even if we limited it to 2021-2022 thus far?

Intuition says we must be worse, but that’s not what we seem to see on the surface, so what does the data say?

[GreenlyGreeny]

Nobody has done this yet? Darn…

[Somebody]

None of them are great at parsing Jaylen's value because we use him like a glorified Bruce Bowen half of the time.

[jambr380]

According to Statmuse (I have no idea if this is a reliable website), the Cs w/o Brown:
2018-19: 8-0
2019-20: 10-5
2020-21: 6-8
2021-22: 7-5

For reference, here is the Cs record w/o Tatum during that time:
2018-19: 1-2
2019-20: 2-4
2020-21: 2-6
2021-22: n/a

So, a pretty mixed bag, but it does seem to show that Tatum missing time is certainly more impactful than Jaylen missing time. In 2018-19 and 2019-2020, the Cs were decidedly better w/o Brown, but that doesn't seem to be as much the case anymore (although they are seemingly no worse w/o him). This also reminds you how much more durable Tatum is.

Note: This does not take into account any games both of them have missed at the same time. I just wanted to present a quick, simple w-l record the past few years. If anybody delves into this more like the OP is asking, I'd be interested to see.

[Walker Wiggle]

It's a good question, but even if the numbers point to a better record without him, I'm not sure if it would change my opinion about the Celtics moving forward. You've got a 25-year-old physical freak who averaged 25 ppg last year and works hard to get better. So what if he's deficient as a passer or a team defender? Even with all he's accomplished thus far in his career, you are still talking about a young player who will inevitably get better at those things as he gets deeper into his career.

[keevsnick]

According to Statmuse (I have no idea if this is a reliable website), the Cs w/o Brown:
2018-19: 8-0
2019-20: 10-5
2020-21: 6-8
2021-22: 7-5

For reference, here is the Cs record w/o Tatum during that time:
2018-19: 1-2
2019-20: 2-4
2020-21: 2-6
2021-22: n/a

So, a pretty mixed bag, but it does seem to show that Tatum missing time is certainly more impactful than Jaylen missing time. In 2018-19 and 2019-2020, the Cs were decidedly better w/o Brown, but that doesn't seem to be as much the case anymore (although they are seemingly no worse w/o him). This also reminds you how much more durable Tatum is.

Note: This does not take into account any games both of them have missed at the same time. I just wanted to present a quick, simple w-l record the past few years. If anybody delves into this more like the OP is asking, I'd be interested to see.

I gotta say, I find the focus on Win-Loss record with or without someone the single most annoying thing sports fans do.

Take the JB record for example. Take the 18-19 record for example. Of course the C's didnt get worse when he was out, they were extremely deep that year and JB was a 14 ppg scorer. It was before he took the leap to the all-star conversation. Teams rarely miss their 4th best player that much.

Or this year. Jaylen went out right when they hit the literal softest part of their schedule. They beat Clevland down three starters, Mil down three starters, OKC and TOR at home both of whom are solidly below .500 teams, HOU who is terrible. Their best win was at home against LAL who are like middling at best. So ya, they played better when he went out larg;ey because they played terrible teams.

THese type of records are so context dependent. If you want to tell me that Tatum is more importnat to winning than Brown I'd buy that, but not because they are x-x when he sits but because I watch the games and he's a more central hub for their offense, whereas Brown is more a play finisher. And the first type of guy is always gonna be more vital to winning an average game in the regular season.

But there is no way in hell you are gonna convince me that the c;s are better off with Brown. He has a positive net rating, he has an even more positive on/off this year, so he quantifiably has a positive impact on the team. They need his skill set if they are gonna make any noise this year.