The cost of max cap room

[footey]

Yes, we have the ability to create a lot of cap room next season.  However, in order to get that cap room, we need to do the following:

* Let Fournier walk this off-season;

* Renounce Marcus and Richardson next year;

* Waive and stretch Horford next year

Is that our best path going forward?

I have my doubts.

BUT .... if Tatum has communicated to the team, either directly or obliquely, that he wants the team to be in a position to sign his friend Bradley Beal ...

Well, the Celts don't really have a choice.

That's the thing, isn't it? We cannot risk Tatum becoming a flight risk, even if it is years away.

That's a pretty bad way to run a team in my opinion.  And frankly I don't think Tatum does that.  He knows better.

What other option is there? In the modern NBA teams are pretty subservient to their franchise talent, it's just the way it is.

What do you mean "he knows better"? Than to pressure us into going for Beal, or than to leave?

To threaten to leave unless we trade for Beal.

[rogueandpoet]

Without looking too much in detailed ways to obtain max cap room I'm convinced that cost is too high.
I am confident that Tatum and Brown suffice as primary scoring options.
What they need are compatible and reliable role players. I want a deep team around our young stars.
Not 3 stars + ring chasing veterans on minimum contracts.

A voice of reason!

[footey]

Without looking too much in detailed ways to obtain max cap room I'm convinced that cost is too high.
I am confident that Tatum and Brown suffice as primary scoring options.
What they need are compatible and reliable role players. I want a deep team around our young stars.
Not 3 stars + ring chasing veterans on minimum contracts.

Here are some big names hitting free agency in 2022:

• Durant (player option)
• Steph (unrestricted. I don't think he'll leave the Warriors though.)
• Kawhi (assuming he opts in this season)
• Harden (player option)
• Kyrie (player option, that would be hilarious)
• Butler (player option)
• Randle (unrestricted)
• LaVine (unrestricted)

It's a loaded free-agent class! Possibly the best one ever? Imo, it would definitely be worth it for KD, Steph and Kawhi (regardless of his ACL tear). I'm less certain about Harden and Beal, but at the end of the day I'd still do it. I would not gut our team for Kyrie, Butler, Randle or LaVine (for various different reasons). Fwiw, LaVine and Randle would come cheaper than the other players on the list. Their max would start at $34,736,100 (=30% of the cap).

Sure, great list. But get real. Most of those guys will re-sign with their current teams.  So the UFA names that are really going to hunt the market remains slim to none IMO.

[gouki88]

Without looking too much in detailed ways to obtain max cap room I'm convinced that cost is too high.
I am confident that Tatum and Brown suffice as primary scoring options.
What they need are compatible and reliable role players. I want a deep team around our young stars.
Not 3 stars + ring chasing veterans on minimum contracts.

Here are some big names hitting free agency in 2022:

• Durant (player option)
• Steph (unrestricted. I don't think he'll leave the Warriors though.)
• Kawhi (assuming he opts in this season)
• Harden (player option)
• Kyrie (player option, that would be hilarious)
• Butler (player option)
• Randle (unrestricted)
• LaVine (unrestricted)

It's a loaded free-agent class! Possibly the best one ever? Imo, it would definitely be worth it for KD, Steph and Kawhi (regardless of his ACL tear). I'm less certain about Harden and Beal, but at the end of the day I'd still do it. I would not gut our team for Kyrie, Butler, Randle or LaVine (for various different reasons). Fwiw, LaVine and Randle would come cheaper than the other players on the list. Their max would start at $34,736,100 (=30% of the cap).

For just one minute, imagine Steph alongside Tatum and Brown...

[Jvalin]

Without looking too much in detailed ways to obtain max cap room I'm convinced that cost is too high.
I am confident that Tatum and Brown suffice as primary scoring options.
What they need are compatible and reliable role players. I want a deep team around our young stars.
Not 3 stars + ring chasing veterans on minimum contracts.

Here are some big names hitting free agency in 2022:

• Durant (player option)
• Steph (unrestricted. I don't think he'll leave the Warriors though.)
• Kawhi (assuming he opts in this season)
• Harden (player option)
• Kyrie (player option, that would be hilarious)
• Butler (player option)
• Randle (unrestricted)
• LaVine (unrestricted)

It's a loaded free-agent class! Possibly the best one ever? Imo, it would definitely be worth it for KD, Steph and Kawhi (regardless of his ACL tear). I'm less certain about Harden and Beal, but at the end of the day I'd still do it. I would not gut our team for Kyrie, Butler, Randle or LaVine (for various different reasons). Fwiw, LaVine and Randle would come cheaper than the other players on the list. Their max would start at $34,736,100 (=30% of the cap).

For just one minute, imagine Steph alongside Tatum and Brown...

Poetry in motion!

And now imagine Kyrie coming back.


@footey
Beal, Butler, LaVine and Randle are probably realistic targets. Possibly Kawhi as well. Basketball-wise, I reckon the C's would be the perfect situation for Kawhi. Personally speaking, my realistic targets would be Kawhi and Beal (in that order).

[greg683x]

I feel like for years we’ve been playing the game where we’re picky about which players we do  and don’t want to let go of when it comes to getting a third star.  Worrying about fit and all that stuff.

I’m ready to just do what we have to do to get the 3rd star and figure out the rest later.  I’m tired of watching teams that have been a train wreck leap frog us while we get hung up on details and obsessions over our own role players.

[droopdog7]

What strikes me about this post is that we have to do A LOT, and still won’t get the room needed for Beal.  Just seems like a bridge too far.  And no, he won’t take a penny less than what he can.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Without looking too much in detailed ways to obtain max cap room I'm convinced that cost is too high.
I am confident that Tatum and Brown suffice as primary scoring options.
What they need are compatible and reliable role players. I want a deep team around our young stars.
Not 3 stars + ring chasing veterans on minimum contracts.

Here are some big names hitting free agency in 2022:

• Durant (player option)
• Steph (unrestricted. I don't think he'll leave the Warriors though.)
• Kawhi (assuming he opts in this season)
• Harden (player option)
• Kyrie (player option, that would be hilarious)
• Butler (player option)
• Randle (unrestricted)
• LaVine (unrestricted)

It's a loaded free-agent class! Possibly the best one ever? Imo, it would definitely be worth it for KD, Steph and Kawhi (regardless of his ACL tear). I'm less certain about Harden and Beal, but at the end of the day I'd still do it. I would not gut our team for Kyrie, Butler, Randle or LaVine (for various different reasons). Fwiw, LaVine and Randle would come cheaper than the other players on the list. Their max would start at $34,736,100 (=30% of the cap).

None of the players you mentioned that we could actually be in play for are worth clearing cap space for. Beal is the most realistic one, and I'm not convinced he's worth it... But I'd be fine with it in the end. But otherwise I rather play above the cap.

[sgrogan]

What strikes me about this post is that we have to do A LOT, and still won’t get the room needed for Beal.  Just seems like a bridge too far.  And no, he won’t take a penny less than what he can.

Agreed
At the moment the Celtics still have total control to open space.
They can stretch AL and renounce all their players and stash the 1st round pick if they want.

$119M cap - (JT $30,351,780.00 + JB $28,741,071.00 + AL's stretch $3,785,714.29 + DJ's dead cap $92,857.00 + 9x roster holds at $953,000.00 ea) =$112.25M

That leaves around $7M margin.
Before we get to next year we need to deal with the rookie options.
RL $5,634,257.00
GW $4,306,281.00
AN $3,804,360.00
PP $2,239,200.00
CE $1,930,681.00

Once exercised the money is guaranteed next year.  If the Celts exceed the margin the they will have to move some of these players to make room for the max.

Then there's RWIII at the end of the season they can extent the QO at $5,430,710, but that comes with a cap hold of $10,985,927, which doesn't allow for a max even if we did move all the rookie contracts with no money coming back,

Then there's the draft pick holds, our 1st at 17ish would be $2.6M ish.

If the purpose is to maintain a "credible threat" if a star wants to sign here, I guess we are borderline doing so. But the necessary machinations are crazy.

Remember when we signed Hayward...
We needed to renounce everyone we could
We needed to trade Avery for Morris
We needed to trade down from 1 to 3
And we still had to stretch Demetrius Jackson

I seriously hope Tatum and Beal have this worked out and Beal forces a trade.
Then we have Bird rights on the remaining players and can use every over the cap trick to bolster the rest of the roster.






 

[tonydelk]

What strikes me about this post is that we have to do A LOT, and still won’t get the room needed for Beal.  Just seems like a bridge too far.  And no, he won’t take a penny less than what he can.

Agreed
At the moment the Celtics still have total control to open space.
They can stretch AL and renounce all their players and stash the 1st round pick if they want.

$119M cap - (JT $30,351,780.00 + JB $28,741,071.00 + AL's stretch $3,785,714.29 + DJ's dead cap $92,857.00 + 9x roster holds at $953,000.00 ea) =$112.25M

That leaves around $7M margin.
Before we get to next year we need to deal with the rookie options.
RL $5,634,257.00
GW $4,306,281.00
AN $3,804,360.00
PP $2,239,200.00
CE $1,930,681.00

Once exercised the money is guaranteed next year.  If the Celts exceed the margin the they will have to move some of these players to make room for the max.

Then there's RWIII at the end of the season they can extent the QO at $5,430,710, but that comes with a cap hold of $10,985,927, which doesn't allow for a max even if we did move all the rookie contracts with no money coming back,

Then there's the draft pick holds, our 1st at 17ish would be $2.6M ish.

If the purpose is to maintain a "credible threat" if a star wants to sign here, I guess we are borderline doing so. But the necessary machinations are crazy.

Remember when we signed Hayward...
We needed to renounce everyone we could
We needed to trade Avery for Morris
We needed to trade down from 1 to 3
And we still had to stretch Demetrius Jackson

I seriously hope Tatum and Beal have this worked out and Beal forces a trade.
Then we have Bird rights on the remaining players and can use every over the cap trick to bolster the rest of the roster.

This to me is the only way we can get Beal and keep some young players.

[Roy H.]

What strikes me about this post is that we have to do A LOT, and still won’t get the room needed for Beal.  Just seems like a bridge too far.  And no, he won’t take a penny less than what he can.

Agreed
At the moment the Celtics still have total control to open space.
They can stretch AL and renounce all their players and stash the 1st round pick if they want.

$119M cap - (JT $30,351,780.00 + JB $28,741,071.00 + AL's stretch $3,785,714.29 + DJ's dead cap $92,857.00 + 9x roster holds at $953,000.00 ea) =$112.25M

That leaves around $7M margin.
Before we get to next year we need to deal with the rookie options.
RL $5,634,257.00
GW $4,306,281.00
AN $3,804,360.00
PP $2,239,200.00
CE $1,930,681.00

Once exercised the money is guaranteed next year.  If the Celts exceed the margin the they will have to move some of these players to make room for the max.

Then there's RWIII at the end of the season they can extent the QO at $5,430,710, but that comes with a cap hold of $10,985,927, which doesn't allow for a max even if we did move all the rookie contracts with no money coming back,

Then there's the draft pick holds, our 1st at 17ish would be $2.6M ish.

If the purpose is to maintain a "credible threat" if a star wants to sign here, I guess we are borderline doing so. But the necessary machinations are crazy.

Remember when we signed Hayward...
We needed to renounce everyone we could
We needed to trade Avery for Morris
We needed to trade down from 1 to 3
And we still had to stretch Demetrius Jackson

I seriously hope Tatum and Beal have this worked out and Beal forces a trade.
Then we have Bird rights on the remaining players and can use every over the cap trick to bolster the rest of the roster.

Yeah. The only way this works is if Washington believes that we are going to sign Beal outright, so that they agree to a sign and trade to get something back.

[PAOBoston]

What strikes me about this post is that we have to do A LOT, and still won’t get the room needed for Beal.  Just seems like a bridge too far.  And no, he won’t take a penny less than what he can.

Agreed
At the moment the Celtics still have total control to open space.
They can stretch AL and renounce all their players and stash the 1st round pick if they want.

$119M cap - (JT $30,351,780.00 + JB $28,741,071.00 + AL's stretch $3,785,714.29 + DJ's dead cap $92,857.00 + 9x roster holds at $953,000.00 ea) =$112.25M

That leaves around $7M margin.
Before we get to next year we need to deal with the rookie options.
RL $5,634,257.00
GW $4,306,281.00
AN $3,804,360.00
PP $2,239,200.00
CE $1,930,681.00

Once exercised the money is guaranteed next year.  If the Celts exceed the margin the they will have to move some of these players to make room for the max.

Then there's RWIII at the end of the season they can extent the QO at $5,430,710, but that comes with a cap hold of $10,985,927, which doesn't allow for a max even if we did move all the rookie contracts with no money coming back,

Then there's the draft pick holds, our 1st at 17ish would be $2.6M ish.

If the purpose is to maintain a "credible threat" if a star wants to sign here, I guess we are borderline doing so. But the necessary machinations are crazy.

Remember when we signed Hayward...
We needed to renounce everyone we could
We needed to trade Avery for Morris
We needed to trade down from 1 to 3
And we still had to stretch Demetrius Jackson

I seriously hope Tatum and Beal have this worked out and Beal forces a trade.
Then we have Bird rights on the remaining players and can use every over the cap trick to bolster the rest of the roster.

Yeah. The only way this works is if Washington believes that we are going to sign Beal outright, so that they agree to a sign and trade to get something back.

Agreed. The Beal deal (if it happens) needs to happen at the trade deadline otherwise Cs won’t be able to sign him.

[action781]

I don't think all these moves are all about creating max contract space next offseason like everyone is raving.  I think it's just about staying flexible and not giving out bad, long-term contracts.  I see nothing in the moves made so far that don't simply indicate:

• Brad wasn't crazy about Fournier and didn't think he was worth competing with the contract NYK was offering
• We will go ahead and resign Marcus and Timelord next offseason if they can be retained at fair contracts
• One year contracts are nice to have when you're unsure of a player's fit or long-term status here

[sgrogan]

So 10/31/21 is a big date.

I'd exercise RL, AD, and PP. Means I'd need to move salary for a real Max FA signing.

The problem is getting any value in return. Can;t take any salary or 1st round picks next year.
Could Romeo be moved for a future (2023+) 1st?

[sgrogan]

I don't think all these moves are all about creating max contract space next offseason like everyone is raving.  I think it's just about staying flexible and not giving out bad, long-term contracts.  I see nothing in the moves made so far that don't simply indicate:

• Brad wasn't crazy about Fournier and didn't think he was worth competing with the contract NYK was offering
• We will go ahead and resign Marcus and Timelord next offseason if they can be retained at fair contracts
• One year contracts are nice to have when you're unsure of a player's fit or long-term status here

If so why not try to improve the roster? Maybe I'm wrong but every move looks to stay under the tax this year and have, the potential, to have cap money next year.