Is the "Spurs" system making a comeback? Suns and Jazz success

[Tr1boy]

Kobe or Jordan model vs Spurs system

Some/most still think the Kobe system is the best. Have one or two guys doing most of the scoring. And then if doubled/pass it to the open guy. 

But Suns and Jazz system is proving... you can still win by "committee".   You dont need to filter through one or two guys exclusively. 

Imo this is a safer and much more effective system. Because special players like Kobe and Jordan are once in a lifetime players. 

[jambr380]

It's a great system if you have a bunch of good, but not great players, who are well-rounded and are willing to sacrifice for the sake of the team. I think that can be hard to find. Even still, you need at least one high level scorer (Mitchell, Booker) who can get you easy buckets when the offense breaks down.

They are good teams, for sure, but it also helps a great deal when you remain healthy in a condensed season, while everybody else is dropping like flies. Guys like AD and KD aren't even going to make All-NBA this season due to missed games. And Tatum probably won't because of his struggles mid-season with Covid. And let's not even get into Covid protocols.

[Moranis]

The Spurs had the greatest PF of all time who always a 20+ ppg scorer.  They added in two other likely HOFers that were generally in the 15-20 ppg range.  The rest of the team were minor offensive contributors.  They scored less than many teams, but their scoring model fits quite well with the Kobe/Shaq Lakers, just not as many points overall.

[Tr1boy]

The Spurs had the greatest PF of all time who always a 20+ ppg scorer.  They added in two other likely HOFers that were generally in the 15-20 ppg range.  The rest of the team were minor offensive contributors.  They scored less than many teams, but their scoring model fits quite well with the Kobe/Shaq Lakers, just not as many points overall.

I disagree

They never kept going to Duncan.....  Sure there was "moments".  But that was not the game plan
Duncan also didn't "force" his game

Parker and Gino  turned out to be great players. Both finds later in the draft. 

But also how many times did we see guys like Horry make critical shots??  Also contributions from Green, Gasol, Splitter, Diaw etc.

The point is,  it was not channeled through one or two guys all the time.  The opposing Ds did not really know what was going to happen , possession to possession

VS

Lakers, you knew Kobe was going to get the ball  one way or the other. 

[Ed Monix]

I actually don’t think there is only one ‘Spurs System’.

When Duncan was right out of college they operated mostly from the post and then when David Robinson retired, San Antonio did play slow iso style based on defence and the growing offensive skill of Parker & Ginobilli.

Their last title run was predicated on ball movement because they lacked a true superstar and had lots of high I.Q veterans who like Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Diaw, Belinelli and to a lesser extent Baynes, Leonard and Mills.

I think the real ‘Spurs System’ is actually sacrifice. It’s by allowing Popovich to build a system based on the players strength and like Belichick’s Patriots, playing within your role which is easier said then done with elite players egos. Pop even said during Duncan’s retirement ceremony that it was Tim that allowed him to succeed by not only being a hall of famer but by sacrificing so much, that the rest of his teammates had to follow suit.

[PhoSita]

I actually don’t think there is only one ‘Spurs System’.

When Duncan was right out of college they operated mostly from the post and then when David Robinson retired they did play slow iso style predicated on defence and the growing talents of Parker & Ginobilli.

Their last title run was predicated on ball movement because they lacked a true superstar and had lots of high I.Q veterans who like Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Diaw, Belinelli and to a lesser extent Baynes, Leonard and Mills.

Yeah the 13 & 14 Spurs had more in common with the late-00s Suns teams than they did with the previous Spurs title teams.

Watch highlights of the Spurs in 05 and 07 versus those teams that went up against the Heat.  Very different.

[Vermont Green]

I don't think the secret to the Spurs success was as much about who got the points as it was about who got the assists or made the passes.  But no matter what your system, it is nice to have great players, which the Spurs had in their glory days.

PHO and UTA are definitely unique teams that are wining (so far) in spite of not having a prototypical star player (although as someone said, Booker, Paul, Mitchell, and Gobert are all really good).  Of the more traditional current stars, Kawhi Leonard is still in the mix but LeBron is out and Durant may be on his own.  That leaves Giannis and Embiid, bigs.  The star power that is left is not Kobe and Jordan level.

Let's see what PHO and UTA end up doing from here.

[Moranis]

The Spurs had the greatest PF of all time who always a 20+ ppg scorer.  They added in two other likely HOFers that were generally in the 15-20 ppg range.  The rest of the team were minor offensive contributors.  They scored less than many teams, but their scoring model fits quite well with the Kobe/Shaq Lakers, just not as many points overall.

I disagree

They never kept going to Duncan.....  Sure there was "moments".  But that was not the game plan
Duncan also didn't "force" his game

Parker and Gino  turned out to be great players. Both finds later in the draft. 

But also how many times did we see guys like Horry make critical shots??  Also contributions from Green, Gasol, Splitter, Diaw etc.

The point is,  it was not channeled through one or two guys all the time.  The opposing Ds did not really know what was going to happen , possession to possession

VS

Lakers, you knew Kobe was going to get the ball  one way or the other.

Duncan was taking over 20% of his teams shots in his prime (and at his peak was like 23.5% - even the first one with DRob much closer to his prime TD took 22% of the Spurs shots on a per game basis).  Slightly less than guys like Kobe, but not appreciably less.  I just think you misremember those first 4, Spurs title teams.  The 13-14 team was definitely different.  That was definitely more a committee type team, but that is also one of only 3 title teams ever to not have arguably a top 5 player on it. 

[SparzWizard]

In Kobe system, they ran the triangle offense under Phil Jackson so they've been very successful.

Would be cool to see the NBA go back to the traditional starting lineups than have undersized or oversized players playing in odd positions.

[footey]

There's a great podcast, Prepe2Pro  Episodes 93 and 94: Team Building Philosophy, which basically argues that teams put too low a value on guys who are more capable of understanding and implementing a system, vs guys who are skill dominant but lack ability to see how the team concept works. Obviously you strive for both (e.g. Steph Curry and the 2015 Warriors).  Makes the argument, for example that a team oriented guy in 2021 draft like Barnes is worthy of a top 5 pick, while a skill dominant, team lacking guy like Green should not go top 5.  I'm over-simplifying the program, check it out of you have time.

I would love for us to more forcefully implement a Spurs style  offense.  It's important that we have the players to implement it.  Would require buy in from Tatum and Brown. They played for Pop summer 201 in FIBA, they understand the concepts. Do they have the resolve to implement?  Can't chase stats.

[tazzmaniac]

Of the players who played at least 40 games and at least 25MPG, Mitchell had the 5th highest usg% (32.7%) and Booker had the 8th highest (31.9%).  That doesn't seem like win by committee to me. 

[Tr1boy]

Of the players who played at least 40 games and at least 25MPG, Mitchell had the 5th highest usg% (32.7%) and Booker had the 8th highest (31.9%).  That doesn't seem like win by committee to me.

well...look at their assist per/total.  Its low vs usg%

its because they don't care about direct assist....

If you watch their system, the moves quickly inside/outside ....  almost to the point of making the opposing team exercise a bit/tire them out

Perhaps build a connection between the team members

Celts for the past few years have done none of that (except for small stretches).  Half the time its iso or simple screen and pop. 

My guess is, if such stat (secondary/tertiary assists) exist....Celtics would be at the bottom of the list 

[Tr1boy]

There's a great podcast, Prepe2Pro  Episodes 93 and 94: Team Building Philosophy, which basically argues that teams put too low a value on guys who are more capable of understanding and implementing a system, vs guys who are skill dominant but lack ability to see how the team concept works. Obviously you strive for both (e.g. Steph Curry and the 2015 Warriors).  Makes the argument, for example that a team oriented guy in 2021 draft like Barnes is worthy of a top 5 pick, while a skill dominant, team lacking guy like Green should not go top 5.  I'm over-simplifying the program, check it out of you have time.

I would love for us to more forcefully implement a Spurs style  offense.  It's important that we have the players to implement it.  Would require buy in from Tatum and Brown. They played for Pop summer 201 in FIBA, they understand the concepts. Do they have the resolve to implement?  Can't chase stats.

If my hunch is correct either Billups or Ham will become the next Celtics coach

I think we will see more of a Spurs style system moving forward

[Rosco917]

The "Spurs system" was invented by Red.

[footey]

The "Spurs system" was invented by Red.

True. Bill Russell said that they played as if they shared the same brain on the court. Couldn’t describe it better. Hard to achieve. But beautiful when executed.